Wang Wei: New Void Shattering Key

[Rikimarox2]

Should be simple, hopefully doesn't take a month or two to evaluate.

1. Void Shattering Realm​

So, I've added the next key for Wang Wei, which is the Void Shattering Realm. Here is the sandbox. It isn't really that complex, as only like, 10-15 abilities were added. Trust me, I'd love to add the last 3 keys in Mortal Realm and be done with it, but I thought it'd be too much of a hassle to evaluate. And yes, if anyone wondering about the previous keys, the concept/law/info type 2 were already accepted in this thread.

The only thing that needs evaluating is Void Shattering Realm. Everything else has been evaluated before, and accepted, with an exception of Aura that'll talk about below.

1.5 Passive Aura​

Basically, characters have aura that does a lot of stuff, but they aren't using it in an active setting, however it was shown that they have to actively keep it under control (for obvious reasons, since there are those who are below them), and are otherwise seemingly always active. There are also instances where character's aura are let out, and the character had stated that they had difficulty controlling their strength since they just broke through and other stuff.

Similar to many, many cultivation profiles in the wiki, this'll be passive Soul/Mind, as well as any other shenanigans his aura can do that are listed in the profile.

2. New Layers​

So, Wang Wei achieved a battle strength of 1-leaf Immortal, which is bridging the gap between Mortals and Immortals. The explanation for layers are below;

Spoiler: Le funni layers

So, the difference between the stages above Quasi are as follow;

The book theorized the vast difference between the Quasi-Emperor Realm and the Great Emperor Realm because there should be at least 30 to 40 Great Cultivation Realms between these two Tiers. For example, there should be at least 15 great realms–not small stages in a realm–between Quasi-Emperor and Immortal Venerable, 25 great realms for Dao Venerables, and over 40 realms for a Third-Class Emperor. However, the Heaven Will allows cultivators to skip all these realms without any repercussions, hence the vast difference in strength between Mortal and Immortal Tier cultivators.

So, Immortal beings are 60 layers above Quasi (Since it is Great Realm not small stages, and majority of realms can be classified as; Low, Middle, High, and Peak level, even when there are 13 levels to some realms), Dao Ancestor have 100 layers above Quasi, and Third Class is 160 layers above Quasi. This is heavily empthasized upon, as even when Wang Wei could slaughter Quasi-Emperors as if they were ants in previous keys, he wasn't able to do jack against a single attack of an Immortal Venerable, and when fought against a 1-Leaf Immortal attack, he had to use everything in his arsenal (reversing time constantly, reverting his state from Dead to Alive, granting him absolute luck, etc...), and even then, that wasn't enough, and he had to link his soul with a Dao Ancestor to survive (with the terrifying attack of the immortal being stated to be akin to less than a mosquito bite to the Dao Ancestor).

Then there's the explicit statement that lower tiers simply do not matter against those of a higher realm;

After all, once cultivators reach a particular realm, numbers of lower Tiers simply do not matter. It's a fact that billions of Quasi-Emperors cannot kill even the lowest 1-Leaf Immortal Venerable. - Ch. 801

Additionally, for proof between each stage being a layer at the very least is the fact that 1-Root Dao Ancestors are hopeless against 2-Dao Ancestors;

Wang Wucheng looked at the young man before him and sighed. "You indeed have the strength of 2-Root Dao Ancestor."Wang Wei smiled before saying: "Can you show the power of each root?" "Sure," said Wang Wucheng before waving his hand to manifest an enormous hand manifested before him. "How do you feel?" "I feel like I could not withstand five attacks." "Most 3-Root Dao Ancestors could defeat 2-Roots with one attack. You can survive more than one because of your law and the many ways you have to defend yourself."Wang Wucheng then used another attack, but a more powerful one. "That's 4-Root." Wang Wei nodded; he wouldn't survive one attack.

As such, there's a difference between each stage. Immortals are the same as one level difference means the higher level easily slaughter lower.
Additionally, I should mention that Void Shatter and above are all about using concepts as attacks.

Also, it was stated that a difference of 0.9% Grand Dao (Power source of everything) is enormous, which makes sense since even just increasing Grand Dao by 0.1-0.3% takes countless trillions of years

"You should know there are differences between the roots–especially the 5-Root Level. The difference between controlling 4% and 4.9% of the Grand Dao Source is enormous."

Since Wang Wei reached first leaf immortal, which is the lowest level, he'd get an extra 60 layers to soul/mind, as well as Dao/Laws.

3. Conclusion​

Tldr; Aura becomes Passive now instead of Thought-Based, new layers are added (That were technically accepted before, but just for safe measure), and a few extra abilities as well as enhanced ones for the new key.

Basically, Wang Wei is a bit stronger. Shocking.

Agree (5): @Zaratthustra, @BreezeHM, @Rakih_Elyan, @Setsuna_tenma, @ActuallySpaceMan42

Disagree: 0

Neutral: 0

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Fellow Daoist, this venerable agree with this.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump.

 

[BreezeHM]

I'd hate to be a Cultivator in this verse.... fym I have to breakthrough 40 times just to go to the next major realm???

Everything looks fine, but evidence for Type 2 Acausality seems kind of weak in my opinion

 

[Rikimarox2]

I'd hate to be a Cultivator in this verse.... fym I have to breakthrough 40 times just to go to the next major realm???

Everything looks fine, but evidence for Type 2 Acausality seems kind of weak in my opinion

Tbf, this is like the Immortal Realm, where usually, one has to be empowered by Emperor Beings in order to become an Immortal and Dao Ancestor. Wang Wei, and the current generation he's in, are just turbo powerful enough to bridge the gap between Mortal and Immortal.

Honestly I wasn't sure if it'd be Type 2 or Type 4. On one hand, they have an Invisible Fate, unrestrained by fate, and stuff, on the other hand, Wang Wei still has a Nexus Fate (Albeit, it could be because the Nexus Fate that was left is a meeting with like, a pretty powerful person (Possibly 5-D, obv not accepted yet though, gotta make another thread for that)).

If people think it ain't enough, I can just change it to enhanced Type 4.

 

[BreezeHM]

That could work

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump

 

[Zaratthustra]

Its type 4 acausality.

He should have abstract existence for having each of his accupoint a black hole and likely Unconventional Matter Manipulation resistance thanks to it.

He's a full blown 4D being, not limited.

Then, Large Size Type 8 or 9 if the blackholes have their own spacetime (as they are larger than an Universe).

He should also scale higher thank to them.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

He should have abstract existence for having each of his accupoint a black hole and likely Unconventional Matter Manipulation resistance thanks to it.

Black holes aren't abstract and are quite physical.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Black holes aren't abstract and are quite physical.

In the novel I think they were as they were made from daos or the like. Been over s year since i've read that part but it was more than just a normal black hole I think

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

In the novel I think they were as they were made from daos or the like.

are they like pure dao or are they just created from ones dao since that's entirely different

 

[Zaratthustra]

are they like pure dao or are they just created from ones dao since that's entirely different

I did say I don't remember for sure, Im waiting for Riki or i'll see later tonight when Im home.

But the fact that a bit of poison can collapse it, it does seem not like a truly normal one. Plus at that stage their abilities are Laws based (Dao, one of the many ranks of it) which are accepted as Conceptual in nature.

Anyway, Riki will know better as he has read it recently.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Its type 4 acausality.

I have changed to Enhanced Type 4, due to already having Acausality in previous keys.

He should have abstract existence for having each of his accupoint a black hole and likely Unconventional Matter Manipulation resistance thanks to it.

Although I doubt they are normal black holes, I don't think they warrant AE. Since, I don't recall any statement about them being actual Laws/Daos, although they were created because of his understanding of Devouring Dao and Nothingness.

'What if instead of condensing stars, I condense black holes inside my acupoints?'

His eyes lighted up as he realized this plan might be feasible. A black hole would swallow most cultivators from the inside if they attempted something so crazy. However, it should be possible with his understanding of Devouring Dao and the hint of nothingness that his fleshly body contained.

The more he thought about it, the more feasible this plan seemed. If done correctly, Wang Wei would have the power of over 9 million supermassive black holes inside his acupoints. - Ch. 455

Statement about the poison;

Wang Wei tried to use the black hole inside his Acupoint to deal with it, but his acupoint–which he nourished to be even bigger than a universe–almost collapsed the moment a small poison entered.

Although, Void Shattering beings were considered Pseudo-Conceptual beings (Direct Statement), and the fact that the Law Altar is inside their Divine Sea (Energy Source), and pretty much all attacks are conceptual and break those stuff. Though I am not sure if that it is enough to consider AE.

He's a full blown 4D being, not limited.

He's Possibly 4-D, due to the whole shenanigans of the verse rules. I plan to just make it full blown 4-D by the time I make a cosmology blog (Especially for Wuji and Primordial Chaos, as apparently, there is a chance for higher than Low 1-C/1-C)

Then, Large Size Type 8 or 9 if the blackholes have their own spacetime (as they are larger than an Universe).

Would it? I mean, sure the Black holes are Universal in size, but Wang Wei isn't. It's more like a pocket reality, based on what I heard. Additionally, I don't think there were any statements of them having Space-Time. And if we do consider them having Space-Times, wouldn't his rating be 2-B due to it?

He should also scale higher thank to them.

Mostly kept 3-B when he's not powered up or anything, as his strength is explictly stated to be able to destroy 25 million Galaxies, and the cosmology is a bit convoluted, since there are many statements for Galaxies, and yet destroying universes at the same stage. He has Likely 2-C rating though, due to those statements and the fact that he's hilariously above his Primordial Spirit Realm, which already affected 36 universes.

 

[Zaratthustra]

The Galaxies are vastly larger than our, I remember how a small thousand world is smaller than a galaxy but those worlds are larger than our galaxies (I think they were stated to be universal in size...or were.those the middle thousand worlds?).

The galaxy number for power is based on his cosmos, not our own. Like just their cities were planet sized then solar system sized (retconned later) and possible higher.

He may not be able to destroy the universe where they normally reside but their universe acts more like a multiverse that encompasses tons of universe sized structures from those thousand worlds, hidden dimensions, other worlds, heavens, and the battlefields used by cultivators.

You could even say their universe is Low 1-C just by having a higher spacetime river than those of the lower structures that have their own river.

There are verses that got just a pocket dimension but I think Wang Wei mentions how he uses the power of the whole accupoint to fight so yeah Universal AP.

It would be 2-B if they have their own spacetime if not just absurdly high into 3-A or Low 2-C. Thats why I said Large size type 8 or type 9 (if they have their own spacetime).

 

[Rikimarox2]

The Galaxies are vastly larger than our, I remember how a small thousand world is smaller than a galaxy but those worlds are larger than our galaxies (I think they were stated to be universal in size...or were.those the middle thousand worlds?).

Lower Thousand Worlds, like the Warring Kingdom world, was described to be the size of 5 to 10 domains back in MEW. The problem is, it's a bit inconsistent. At that time, there were statements about being the size of a solar system, and then the size of a galaxy, then clusters of galaxies, etc... Hell, they described a Domain that was considered large as the size of a solar system in WW's previous life.

Yet, later on, they stated that the size of a small domain is a few dozen galaxies. So, I'm a bit unsure. It'd make feats, especially early on, much higher than they were described at that time. Hell, it'd make Divine Altar Key WW 3-C to 3-B instead of 5-B. The sizes get retconned a lot.

Though, Middle Thousand Worlds were directly stated to be galaxies, and were stated to be, on average, larger than the ones in WW's previous world.

"25,000 Dragon Elephant Force," he muttered. 1 Dragon Elephant Force equaled the power to destroy 1000 Middle Thousand Worlds, which typically were the size of a galaxy. So, he could now destroy 25 million galaxies with one punch.

And that is not taken into account that Middle Thousand Worlds are larger on average than the galaxies from Earth and have their own natural protective force and ability to repair the damage done to them.

However, they weren't described as being universal in size. Greater Thousand Worlds were described as Universes, and Heavenly Abode Realm (the world where the 2-C feat comes from), was stated to be close to the size of a Heaven Will World, so there's that. So, it's like a special case.

However, considering how it was still stated that Void Shattering Realm cultivators should be able to break the world since it is the limit of the world, I might just scrap 3-B of previous keys altogether and put it as 3-A.

He may not be able to destroy the universe where they normally reside but their universe acts more like a multiverse that encompasses tons of universe sized structures from those thousand worlds, hidden dimensions, other worlds, heavens, and the battlefields used by cultivators.

You could even say their universe is Low 1-C just by having a higher spacetime river than those of the lower structures that have their own river.

Would that work? Like, would having Rivers of Time that are stronger than the ones in smaller worlds qualify as Low 1-C? There were also statements of dimensions and places inside their respective universe, yet were considered "Separate space and time", so I might add this in the cosmology blog.

There are verses that got just a pocket dimension but I think Wang Wei mentions how he uses the power of the whole accupoint to fight so yeah Universal AP.

Alrighty, mostly put 3-B due to the whole galaxies statement, but I changed it to 3-A now.

It would be 2-B if they have their own spacetime if not just absurdly high into 3-A or Low 2-C. Thats why I said Large size type 8 or type 9 (if they have their own spacetime).

No mention of Space-Time, unfortunately. Though they were comparable to the worlds that were inside Di Tian's Acupoints, which, iirc, had their own laws, and stuff. Though I need to revisit it to make sure. Anyways, that still doesn't really answer my question on whether he'd be size 8/9, as he's usually not that size at all, if ever.

Anyways, I changed the rating to 3-A, due to statements about galaxies being larger than us, and more universal sized stuff.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bumpty.

Additionally, I wanted to ask a question about Resistance Negation. If a character is stated to be greatly immune to soul attacks, but were affected later on by it, would it count as negating resistance or higher hax potency? There are other instances of stated immunities, but still being affected later on.

'It seems that with the power of incense protecting them, these Gods are greatly immune to Soul Attacks.'

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bumpty. I wonder how many staff I need for this, considering all the ratings are within the range of previous keys.

 

[BreezeHM]

Additionally, I wanted to ask a question about Resistance Negation. If a character is stated to be greatly immune to soul attacks, but were affected later on by it, would it count as negating resistance or higher hax potency? There are other instances of stated immunities, but still being affected later on.

If they just overcame it then just another layer. For resistance negation, there needs to be evidence that their resistance was actually removed.

Bumpty. I wonder how many staff I need for this, considering all the ratings are within the range of previous keys.

Two staff, since it's under Tier 1 and I didn't see any controversial abilities.

 

[Rikimarox2]

If they just overcame it then just another layer. For resistance negation, there needs to be evidence that their resistance was actually removed.

Would instances where characters were stated to be immune to something, yet were still affected by it from someone else count? What about these two:

[Conceptual Punch]

Duk! Duk! Duk! Bang!

He punched the second half millions of times in less than an instant before it exploded into dust. The [12 Zodiac Technique] he acquired from Gu Xuan's trial had a few interesting zodiacs, and the one most interesting was the [Dragon Zodiac]. Wang Wei learned a technique called [Conceptual Punch] that allowed him to use his pure physical force to attack concepts.

For example, he could punch 'death' or 'creation' with this technique. And in the case of Yi Lianchang's case, he hit the latter's immunity. And since he was more powerful than him, he could overwhelm him into bypassing such powerful immunity.

After the ceremony was the wedding party where everybody tried to get both the broom and the bride drunk. Wang Tian set the rule that no one can use their Origin Essence to remove the alcohol from their bodies, and even asked Wu Hong to seal the fleshly bodies of the body refiners to remove their natural resistance to alcohol.

Albeit, the second scan is a bit meh, but I'm mostly interested about the first scan. Dude can bypass immunities.

Two staff, since it's under Tier 1 and I didn't see any controversial abilities.

Very nice. I don't think content moderators count, right?

 

[BreezeHM]

Would instances where characters were stated to be immune to something, yet were still affected by it from someone else count? What about these two

First Scan says he's bypassing his immunity because it's stronger. Just another layer, since he didn't lower his actual immunity.

Albeit, the second scan is a bit meh, but I'm mostly interested about the first scan. Dude can bypass immunities.

Second scan sure, but that looks like unconventional resistance negation since sealing is involved.

Very nice. I don't think content moderators count, right?

They don't. Only Thread Mods, Admins, Super Mods, and Bureaucrats have voting rights.

 

[Rikimarox2]

First Scan says he's bypassing his immunity because it's stronger. Just another layer, since he didn't lower his actual immunity.

He directly attacked the immunity though? The whole "he's stronger" is because his ability depends on his strength to destroy immunities, since that's how the ability works. It's not just "He bypassed it because he's stronger", since Wang Wei was already stronger than the dude but couldn't affect his immunity before until he activated his Conceptual Punch.

I'm mostly interested in the fact that he can directly attack stuff like immunities and resistances, rather than the fact that he's stronger.

Second scan sure, but that looks like unconventional resistance negation since sealing is involved.

Probably.

They don't. Only Thread Mods, Admins, Super Mods, and Bureaucrats have voting rights.

Damn. Yellow is the nicest color too

 

[BreezeHM]

He directly attacked the immunity though? The whole "he's stronger" is because his ability depends on his strength to destroy immunities, since that's how the ability works. It's not just "He bypassed it because he's stronger", since Wang Wei was already stronger than the dude but couldn't affect his immunity before until he activated his Conceptual Punch.

It would still be just another layer unless it was stated his immunity was destroyed or getting weakened. The scan says bypass which means to go past/beyond/around.

Probably.

Damn. Yellow is the nicest color too

For me, red looks the best

 

[Rikimarox2]

It would still be just another layer unless it was stated his immunity was destroyed or getting weakened. The scan says bypass which means to go past/beyond/around.

It says that, but directly mentions afterwards that it was meant to "Destroy", such as when he mentioned he wanted to one day be able to "Destroy" the eternal attribute of Eternal Emperors

According to Wang Wei, this technique has a lot of potential–especially if, one day, he could use it to destroy the eternal attribute of Great Emperors and even Eternal Emperors; it would mean he could kill these entities without the need for Dao Will.

For me, red looks the best

 

[BreezeHM]

It says that, but directly mentions afterwards that it was meant to "Destroy", such as when he mentioned he wanted to one day be able to "Destroy" the eternal attribute of Eternal Emperors

Remind me again what eternal attributes are

 

[Rikimarox2]

Remind me again what eternal attributes are

Eternal attributes are more like immortality in this case (existing as long as histroy exists, immunity to mortal time stuff, etc...), though that isn't what is important. The important thing is that it's talking about destruction, rather than simply bypassing.

The dude he fought, btw, was immune to all physical attacks (bit of a meh, considering said attacks can destroy concepts and stuff), and Wang Wei attacked his immunity in order to beat him (Although he kind of failed since that dude was connected to ******* Cthulhu, which might be 1-C/Low 1-A/1-A).

 

[BreezeHM]

Eternal attributes are more like immortality in this case (existing as long as histroy exists, immunity to mortal time stuff, etc...), though that isn't what is important. The important thing is that it's talking about destruction, rather than simply bypassing.

The dude he fought, btw, was immune to all physical attacks (bit of a meh, considering said attacks can destroy concepts and stuff), and Wang Wei attacked his immunity in order to beat him (Although he kind of failed since that dude was connected to ******* Cthulhu, which might be 1-A).

It does say it has the potential to destroy the eternal attributes, meaning it hasn't reached that level yet. Is there any fights in the future with him using the technique or you haven't gotten there yet?

 

[Rikimarox2]

It does say it has the potential to destroy the eternal attributes, meaning it hasn't reached that level yet. Is there any fights in the future with him using the technique or you haven't gotten there yet?

I'm 99.9% positive it reached that level later on. However, eternal attributes are like, leagues (if not infinitely) harder than just targeting immunity. WW has also bypassed/destroyed the immunities of death and other shenanigans. Though I'd need to reread that part, as it's been quite a while since I last reread the immortal parts, and mostly focused on making the mortal realm stuff.

Regardless of all of that, I'm genuinely not sure how affecting the immunity of someone (Not just say, affecting them despite their immunity), but straight up attacking that immunity, does not qualify as Resistance Negation? Even if it depended on his strength, wouldn't it still fit the bill for Resistance Negation since he still directly affected/attacked the immunity?

Edit: Here are some other feats of it:

His headless body then attacked Di Tian's stomach. His attempt was futile, but this was not his main objective. Using the force of his punch, he moved dozens of meters backward, distancing himself from his opponent.

Then, his atoms reconstructed his head, and his Primordial Spirit returned to its rightful place.

'He's indeed immune to all attacks,' thought Wang Wei. In that previous attack, he used his [Dragon Zodiac] to attack Di Tian's [Immunity].

And there were statements of possible negation;

What if some day his mysterious soul fails him? Or someone found a way to negate his immunity? Additionally, from his research he knew that his soul was not completely immune to these negative states, but just had high tolerance. As such, he designed the trial to try it out.

Which shows that negation of immunity is a thing in-verse (ironically, WW was afraid of this, then he started targeting immunities and stuff)

 

[BreezeHM]

I'm 99.9% positive it reached that level later on. However, eternal attributes are like, leagues (if not infinitely) harder than just targeting immunity. WW has also bypassed/destroyed the immunities of death and other shenanigans. Though I'd need to reread that part, as it's been quite a while since I last reread the immortal parts, and mostly focused on making the mortal realm stuff.

Gotcha

Regardless of all of that, I'm genuinely not sure how affecting the immunity of someone (Not just say, affecting them despite their immunity), but straight up attacking that immunity, does not qualify as Resistance Negation? Even if it depended on his strength, wouldn't it still fit the bill for Resistance Negation since he still directly affected/attacked the immunity?

I would give it Conceptual Manipulation Type 3 with Resistance Negation as an effect since [Conceptual Punch] works by directly targeting their Concept of Immunity.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Which... would be just resistance negation? There are many ways to affect resistances, this is one of them. I wouldn't assume that someone who resisted this can't resist conventional resistance negation.

Regardless, albeit a bit awkward, but I realized that we are derailing this by a lot, and I should just make another thread for the resistance negation (and I'll try to find plot manip). Though, thanks for the clarification about it.

 

[BreezeHM]

Which... would be just resistance negation? There are many ways to affect resistances, this is one of them. I wouldn't assume that someone who resisted this can't resist conventional resistance negation.

I wouldn't say so. Someone can resist sealing, but they wouldn't able to resist sealing if their very concept of resistance was destroyed.

Regardless, albeit a bit awkward, but I realized that we are derailing this by a lot, and I should just make another thread for the resistance negation (and I'll try to find plot manip). Though, thanks for the clarification about it.

Glad to help

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bumpty

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump

 

[Livinmeme]

I'd hate to be a Cultivator in this verse.... fym I have to breakthrough 40 times just to go to the next major realm???

Everything looks fine, but evidence for Type 2 Acausality seems kind of weak in my opinion

Being cultivator is suffering (in 99% of verses atleast). Also agree with the CRT.

 

[BreezeHM]

Being cultivator is suffering (in 99% of verses atleast). Also agree with the CRT.

When your entire clan gets wiped out because the mc stole a Jade Beauty from the 3rd Young Master of the Bai Family

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

OP's stuff seems fine.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Counted. Only one more vote is needed, and it should be it.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump

 

[Rikimarox2]

Bump...