Question about movement without time

[Shugunou]

If I understand correctly, if a character moves in a place where there is no time, their speed is considered Immeasurable. How would a character like this be able to move if the speed formula is broken due to one of the variables being nonexistent?

 

[Napoleondevious]

its not immeasurable

Speed

Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Shugunou]

its not immeasurable

Speed

Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...

vsbattles.fandom.com

What would you put on the wiki if they could move in a timeless void then? Do you just leave it blank, write "undefined", "not applicable", or just ignore it and look at other feats?

 

[StrymULTRA]

or just ignore it and look at other feats?

This

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

If I understand correctly, if a character moves in a place where there is no time, their speed is considered Immeasurable. How would a character like this be able to move if the speed formula is broken due to one of the variables being nonexistent?

Immeasurable speed means a movement unbounded from the time, or in other hand, it means a speed that transcends time or distance.
Moving in the void doesn't mean it's unbound from the time; it just a movement in a timeless place. Because the character's speed is still bounded to time outside of it. Also it's void that is timeless, not the character's speed being beyond the time

 

[Shugunou]

Immeasurable speed means a movement unbounded from the time, or in other hand, it means a speed that transcends time or distance.
Moving in the void doesn't mean it's unbound from the time; it just a movement in a timeless place. Because the character's speed is still bounded to time outside of it. Also it's void that is timeless, not the character's speed being beyond the time

But how would a character move in a timeless void? Is time local?

 

[Shugunou]

The reason I am asking this is that I have a character I am writing who goes to different verses and some of them are unbound by space and time. I want my character to still be able to move within them but I need to know how that could be possible. I tried asking Quora and they all said it was impossible. I tried asking an AI chatbot and it said to replace movement with state changes. VSBW is all I have left.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

But how would a character move in a timeless void? Is time local?

Time isn't local; we humans just made it local due to the rotation of earth. Anyways a timeless place makes humans to not age at all (where the concepts like second, minute and hour haven't any meanings). This doesn't related to speed at all. For example, you can imagine a place without space. Does this mean this character can resist space manipulation because there's no space or his presence is above spaces? No. It's just Irrelevant
Timeless voids are just places free from time. They don't give characters anythings. A character can walk there because a timeless void in its broadest definition is eternal, without beginning or end, and all physical processes operate within a timeless framework, not their movement being stopped. In other hand, they aren't affected by the passage of time, and their movement isn't locked

 

[Shugunou]

Time isn't local; we humans just made it local due to the rotation of earth. Anyways a timeless place makes humans to not age at all (where the concepts like second, minute and hour haven't any meanings). This doesn't related to speed at all. For example, you can imagine a place without space. Does this mean this character can resist space manipulation because there's no space or his presence is above spaces? No. It's just Irrelevant
Timeless voids are just places free from time. They don't give characters anythings. A character can walk there because a timeless void in its broadest definition is eternal, without beginning or end, and all physical processes operate within a timeless framework, not their movement being stopped. In other hand, they aren't affected by the passage of time, and their movement isn't locked

This doesn't make sense to me though. If something isn't bound by time, it should be as if time doesn't exist so speed should be undefined. Why are only some aspects of time affected instead of all aspects? If time and space were just 0 instead of nonexistent, it would be 0/0 meaning you could plug in whatever number you want as speed but it doesn't work if those variables are already undefined themselves.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

This doesn't make sense to me though. If something isn't bound by time, it should be as if time doesn't exist so speed should be undefined. Why are only some aspects of time affected instead of all aspects? If time and space were just 0 instead of nonexistent, it would be 0/0 meaning you could plug in whatever number you want as speed but it doesn't work if those variables are already undefined themselves.

Again, no. As i said before, the character's speed is on a timeless framework. The character itself didn't transcend time. Its speed is still bounded to time. After exiting the void, the character's speed would back as a movement in the timeframe which means it's still dependent to time. Also if the time is 0 doesn't mean your speed is beyond the time. The time is 0. The speed didn't change at all. Speed can't do anything it wants because it didn't do anything for bypassing the linear time. So what point is still left?

 

[Napoleondevious]

But how would a character move in a timeless void? Is time local?

normally moving wouldnt be possible in a timeless void because the lack of time limits potentiality in space so you cant act, but we can hypothesize a different causal system like acausality type 4, or bde type 1 but for time only.

This doesn't make sense to me though. If something isn't bound by time, it should be as if time doesn't exist so speed should be undefined. Why are only some aspects of time affected instead of all aspects? If time and space were just 0 instead of nonexistent, it would be 0/0 meaning you could plug in whatever number you want as speed but it doesn't work if those variables are already undefined themselves.

simply not being subject to time isnt nearly enough for immeasurable, immeasurable isnt just "transcending" time or being unbound by it (as it doesnt really mean anything by itself), you need to be able to move freely in time like in space, i would guess that the lack of time makes this feat non demonstrable


sorry if i misinterpretated anything

 

[Shugunou]

Again, no. As i said before, the character's speed is on a timeless framework. The character itself didn't transcend time. Its speed is still bounded to time. After exiting the void, the character's speed would back as a movement in the timeframe which means it's still dependent to time. Also if the time is 0 doesn't mean your speed is beyond the time. The time is 0. The speed didn't change at all. Speed can't do anything it wants because it didn't do anything for bypassing the linear time. So what point is still left?

Mathematically speaking, if you change a variable, doesn't that change the result of the equation? The speed formula is distance divided by time. If space is 0, distance should also be 0 thus giving you 0 divided by 0. I don't see how changing a variable to 0 would have no affect on the result. I understand how it has no affect on the character's base speed but their current movement speed should be affected. While they are in the void, they should be moving at an undefined speed and then resume normal speed after leaving the void. This shouldn't affect their speed stat necessarily but should affect their effective movement speed while they are in the void.

 

[Shugunou]

normally moving wouldnt be possible in a timeless void because the lack of time limits potentiality in space so you cant act, but we can hypothesize a different causal system like acausality type 4, or bde type 1 but for time only.

simply not being subject to time isnt nearly enough for immeasurable, immeasurable isnt just "transcending" time or being unbound by it (as it doesnt really mean anything by itself), you need to be able to move freely in time like in space, i would guess that the lack of time makes this feat non demonstrable


sorry if i misinterpretated anything

Where can I find information about acausality type 4 and bde type 1?

 

[Shugunou]

I asked the AI chatbot if there was anything that would be perceived as movement but didn't require time or space and one of the things it brought up was quantum superposition. Would that work if space and time didn't exist?

 

[Napoleondevious]

Where can I find information about acausality type 4 and bde type 1?

Beyond-Dimensional Existence

Beyond-Dimensional Existence is the state of existing beyond dimensions. In the majority of cases, this will be referring to characters who are timeless and spaceless. That is to say: A "beyond-dimensional" character does not take up any volume whatsoever, nor does it occupy a position in...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This has the potential to grant them resistances to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others, depending on its shown capabilities which should be specified on the given page.

basically, it lacks temporal qualities and so cannot change in space, so it entails the existence of something else that allows that change, so it cannot really scale our traditional depiction of speed (in space, and time), but only this metaphysical and weird otherworldly plane of existence, yknow.

 

[Shugunou]

Beyond-Dimensional Existence

Beyond-Dimensional Existence is the state of existing beyond dimensions. In the majority of cases, this will be referring to characters who are timeless and spaceless. That is to say: A "beyond-dimensional" character does not take up any volume whatsoever, nor does it occupy a position in...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This has the potential to grant them resistances to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others, depending on its shown capabilities which should be specified on the given page.

basically, it lacks temporal qualities and so cannot change in space, so it entails the existence of something else that allows that change, so it cannot really scale our traditional depiction of speed (in space, and time), but only this metaphysical and weird otherworldly plane of existence, yknow.

What about reality manipulation? Could that be used?

 

[Napoleondevious]

What about reality manipulation? Could that be used?

on someone with acausality ?

 

[Shugunou]

on someone with acausality ?

To move in a place unbound by time and space.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

Mathematically speaking, if you change a variable, doesn't that change the result of the equation? The speed formula is distance divided by time. If space is 0, distance should also be 0 thus giving you 0 divided by 0. I don't see how changing a variable to 0 would have no affect on the result. I understand how it has no affect on the character's base speed but their current movement speed should be affected. While they are in the void, they should be moving at an undefined speed and then resume normal speed after leaving the void. This shouldn't affect their speed stat necessarily but should affect their effective movement speed while they are in the void.

No that won't change the speed formula. Void is timeless which is the place. The time in the formula is the time of the speed. The time of the speed isn't zero, but it's the time of the speed outside of there. Why it's that? Because the same character moves at clearly finite speeds when they return to Earth in the like. Which means the speed didn't do any transcendences. Also as i've said, speed isn't undefined there, the speed is just be done in a timeless frameworks. I know verses where time is erased and/or destabilized, but a bunch of normal humans were still able to move. Also, it is common in fiction that characters moved in timeless voids.
Also space being zero isn't related to timeless voids until it's stated; which still isn't immeasurable
This is like saying anyone who can move in 0 gravity has infinite lifting strength and/or flight

 

[Shugunou]

No that won't change the speed formula. Void is timeless which is the place. The time in the formula is the time of the speed. The time of the speed isn't zero, but it's the time of the speed outside of there. Why it's that? Because the same character moves at clearly finite speeds when they return to Earth in the like. Which means the speed didn't do any transcendences. Also as i've said, speed isn't undefined there, the speed is just be done in a timeless frameworks. I know verses where time is erased and/or destabilized, but a bunch of normal humans were still able to move. Also, it is common in fiction that characters moved in timeless voids.
Also space being zero isn't related to timeless voids until it's stated; which still isn't immeasurable
This is like saying anyone who can move in 0 gravity has infinite lifting strength and/or flight

Gravity works differently than speed and space tho. For a character to need infinite lifting strength, gravity would have to be infinite. The force formula is F = (G * m1 * m2) / d^2. Where G is the gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of the bodies, and d is the distance between them. That is much more complex than dividing one variable by another. Zero gravity just means 0 force. Force would always be 0, even with infinite lifting strength. Strength is not a variable in the equation so you don't even have to worry about the debate of whether 0 times/divided by infinity is 0 or infinity. Now, if the reason something had infinite lifting strength was because of infinite muscle mass, then you would need to deal with that.

 

[Napoleondevious]

Gravity works differently than speed and space tho. For a character to need infinite lifting strength, gravity would have to be infinite. The force formula is F = (G * m1 * m2) / d^2. Where G is the gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of the bodies, and d is the distance between them. That is much more complex than dividing one variable by another. Zero gravity just means 0 force. Force would always be 0, even with infinite lifting strength.

force isnt only based on gravity tho?
if you accelerate a 1 kg mass at 10 m/s^2 its 10 newtons, no gravity involved ?
an infinite mass would give infinite lifting strength, infinite acceleration too, no gravity

 

[Shugunou]

force isnt only based on gravity tho?
if you accelerate a 1 kg mass at 10 m/s^2 its 10 newtons, no gravity involved ?
an infinite mass would give infinite lifting strength, infinite acceleration too, no gravity

That is true but you can have infinite lifting strength through magical or other supernatural means instead of just muscle mass. Infinite lifting strength doesn't imply infinite mass. In our universe, there is no such thing as true zero gravity. There is always a gravitational body close enough to affect you, even if it is less than 1G. If you had an object with infinitesimal mass, no matter where you put it in the known universe, it would still be dragged towards some object. So gravity in the equation is never 0 meaning you never need to worry about force being stuck at 0. Also, assuming you aren't just a blob of mass, your body should be affected by the gravity of your other body parts. Then there is the gravity of the object you are lifting in the first place. So even in a universe devoid of anything but you, you would still be affected by gravity.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

Gravity works differently than speed and space tho. For a character to need infinite lifting strength, gravity would have to be infinite. The force formula is F = (G * m1 * m2) / d^2. Where G is the gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of the bodies, and d is the distance between them. That is much more complex than dividing one variable by another. Zero gravity just means 0 force. Force would always be 0, even with infinite lifting strength. Strength is not a variable in the equation so you don't even have to worry about the debate of whether 0 times/divided by infinity is 0 or infinity. Now, if the reason something had infinite lifting strength was because of infinite muscle mass, then you would need to deal with that.

Yeah you explained why the gravity stuff is incorrect, it's just like the timeless void thing
The void being timeless isn't related to formula at all, it's just the place being timeless, not the character's speed

 

[Shugunou]

Yeah you explained why the gravity stuff is incorrect, it's just like the timeless void thing
The void being timeless isn't related to formula at all, it's just the place being timeless, not the character's speed

If what I said also applies to timeless voids and speed, then speed should always be 0 in a timeless void. But that is still incorrect as the reason force was 0 under 0 gravity is because it is multiplying by 0, not dividing by 0 like in the speed formula. In the real world, time is needed for movement. You could replace time with something else but you'd need to invent a new dimension to replace it. I'm fine with saying that timeless voids cannot grant immeasurable speeds but saying movement is possible under normal circumstances is ridiculous. Humans moving after time being destroyed is just bad writing. The writers lack a basic understanding of physics. It's like saying The Flash in the CW show is slower than the ice blasts from the cold gun because he got hit by it. That was just the writers being inconsistent. Unless we are to say the ice blasts are faster than bullets but that is cope especially since he does actually dodge the blasts.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

If what I said also applies to timeless voids and speed, then speed should always be 0 in a timeless void. But that is still incorrect as the reason force was 0 under 0 gravity is because it is multiplying by 0, not dividing by 0 like in the speed formula. In the real world, time is needed for movement. You could replace time with something else but you'd need to invent a new dimension to replace it. I'm fine with saying that timeless voids cannot grant immeasurable speeds but saying movement is possible under normal circumstances is ridiculous. Humans moving after time being destroyed is just bad writing. The writers lack a basic understanding of physics. It's like saying The Flash in the CW show is slower than the ice blasts from the cold gun because he got hit by it. That was just the writers being inconsistent. Unless we are to say the ice blasts are faster than bullets but that is cope.

Yeah that's just writers being not knowledgeable enough. Especially movies, which are most created due to being a movie for fans. Not saying all of movies are like this, but movies like flash are mostly made due to this stereotype

 

[Shugunou]

Yeah that's just writers being not knowledgeable enough. Especially movies, which are most created due to being a movie for fans. Not saying all of movies are like this, but movies like flash are mostly made due to this stereotype

I mean, I do sympathize with the writers a bit though because writing a speedster is hard. There are two main ways to write them well though. Have every character also be a speedster or make it so their super speed isn't always active. I am doing both of those in different series. In the series based on my fursona, I am having it so that while my fursona can move at about the speed of sound, it needs to tap into that power and would normally move at regular speeds. That gives characters a window to do damage. For a manga series I am planning on writing, every character will have super speed. X-Men Evolution didn't use either of these though and still managed to write Quicksilver well by finding weaknesses to his super speed and having characters exploit those weaknesses.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

I mean, I do sympathize with the writers a bit though because writing a speedster is hard. There are two main ways to write them well though. Have every character also be a speedster or make it so their super speed isn't always active. I am doing both of those in different series. In the series based on my fursona, I am having it so that while my fursona can move at about the speed of sound, it needs to tap into that power and would normally move at regular speeds. That gives characters a window to do damage. For a manga series I am planning on writing, every character will have super speed.

Yeah, exactly this