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Chainsaw Man discussion thread

Public Safety Uniform Scaling did another silly again.
ElajRuengies

Post in thread 'Chainsaw Man: The Mega CRT'

Alright so I finally bit the bullet (pun intended) and reread Ch. 77, 78, and 79, and after tearing my heart out and eating it, I saw that Denji did manage to pierce Aki's Public Safety Uniform. This causes a slight problem with the scaling, in that-
  • Katana Man's piercing damage can break Post-Training Denji's chainsaws
  • Denji's chainsaws can pierce PS Uniforms
  • Katana Man's piercing damage can't break PS Uniforms
There are two(2) solutions to this dilemma.
  1. Denji's chainsaws are just way, way sharper than Katana Man's swords
  2. International Assassins - Gun...
  • Like
 
Zabazab said:
.
Click to expand...
Zabazab, I'd like to warn you ahead of time that... It's just, I'm looking at the scaling bumps for the next CRT (when the Snake Devil Calc gets evaluated) and shaking my head so hard right now.

Please understand that it's not about making the big numbers work. And that Miri's portrayed performance against an uber fear-boosted Chainsaw Man, after the Chainsaw Man Zombie Apocalypse broke out, while compared to how Reze did against Post-Training Denji, supports the gap.

With that said, given the difference in destructive capacity these two have shown, oh my God, this is so f*cking stupid.
 
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GunshyFever said:
Yes, that is the case. The problem is not the ability activation speed but rather her reaction speed. Her practically matching a serious darkness devil is an issue.

How does Part 1 Pochita being superior to Part 2 Pochita sound? Thinking from a logical standpoint. This could fix our scaling issue.
Click to expand...
ElajRuengies said:
If by logically you mean: ignoring showings of physical destruction, narrative implications, and what I think would be stupid, and thus judging solely based on if this would create any plain and solid logical contradictions that are not based anything open to interpretation, then Part 1 Pochita being stronger than Part 2 Pochita still wouldn't make sense.

Part 1 Pochita > Part 2 Pochita would mean Post-Training Denji is stronger than Post-Fear Boost Denji, which means Katana Man's stronger than Whip Woman, resulting in Public Safety Uniforms being stronger than Public Safety Uniforms.

We can just accept that Makima not instantly dying to Darkness was an outlier necessary for the story to not end. Fujimoto can have one of those, as a treat.
Click to expand...
Also the Public Safety Uniform brainrot is real. I can't believe the PS Uniform scaling chain was the counter-argument I thought of, and not the fact that you were implying Chainsaw Man during the Chainsaw Man Zombie Apocalypse was less feared than he was in Part 1.
 
Zabazab said:
I have deeply considered the possibility that fear scaling just doesn't affect hybrids.
Click to expand...
Either that or the Sword Devil just benefited a lot from the ban on guns, kinda like Bow.

Edit: Hold on you might be cooking.
 
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Should guns be scaled higher in ap. I was looking at some sences and they go through public safety suits like paper. Every single time it goes through.
 
Famikiga said:
Should guns be scaled higher in ap. I was looking at some sences and they go through public safety suits like paper. Every single time it goes through.
Click to expand...
No, for reasons already talked about. Guns are just really inconsistent in Chainsaw Man.
ElajRuengies said:
Even considering absurdly effective piercing damage (Cough, cough, spears, cough, cough), bullets still don't make sense in Chainsaw Man.

Bullets bounce off Denji's headsaw, Katana Man's Quick Draw can destroy Denji's headsaw, Katana Man's Quick Draw can't do shit against PS Uniforms, and yet bullets can pierce PS Uniforms.

Gunshots can also draw blood from Quanxi and go straight through Makima, yet Long's forearm can meat-shield not one, but two shots.
Click to expand...
 
Famikiga said:
This random chainsaw woman did this bruh. Does denji upscale?
Click to expand...
Chainsaw Church Denji's already stronger than that. Fire Devil's just cracked. Civilians with Regular Spears >>> Post-Fear Boost Hybrid Denji and Fakesaw Men anyway.
Zabazab said:
I first had this thought when Denji (supposedly INSANELY sapped of fear) accidentally one-shot Bat without noticing.
Click to expand...
Denji still had months of training with Kishibe buffing him compared to when he first fought Bat, balancing out the loss in fear, and even during his first encounter Denji was stronger than Bat.
 
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ElajRuengies said:
3. They don't automatically scale to the Primal Fears. Death is OP because she's also a Primal Fear besides being a Horseman, and Fami's hax totally ignores strength. Makima and Yoru both get embarrassed by Primals.
Click to expand...
She still harmed Darkness who's a primal fear? Like, harming Darkness means her Bang scales to Darkness, logically speaking? And Darkness would dwarf heavily on the Gun Devil who has Mountain feats and just the Primals scaling above Mountain in physicality and existence. Why is this not a Mountain level feat for her?

Also speaking of Gun Devil, I don't see why Makima wouldn't scale to Mountain considering she harmed Pochita gravely with her bangs, and her AP just scaling in general to Pochita, who should be above 100% Gun Devil, and 28% or just a FAR lower percent Gun Devil in the manga did the Mountain level stuff.

Also, even ignoring that 20% Gun Devil's kinetic energy alone was calculated to Large Island, I'm sure you saw it, why was that not accepted? I also saw that even Small Town level Denji wasn't accepted (from him killing Katana Man who endured that feat).

If not, it's this
 
Zabazab said:
I have deeply considered the possibility that fear scaling just doesn't affect hybrids.
Click to expand...
Can we follow up on this? To my knowledge there's not one statement directly tying fear scaling to hybrids. We just assume that since it works for Devils and fiends that it should also apply to hybrids, however we've been told multiple times throughout the story that hybrids are something else entirely. With that in mind until we get concrete evidence of fear scaling working on them, we should treat their level of power as static and unchanging (Unless they train). This offers a way less convoluted scaling chain when trying to figure out how Denji one-shot the bat Devil in part two despite supposedly being weakened and also results in a way easier scaling chain for the hybrids themselves.
 
Aaaaa11112222 said:
She still harmed Darkness who's a primal fear? Like, harming Darkness means her Bang scales to Darkness, logically speaking? And Darkness would dwarf heavily on the Gun Devil who has Mountain feats and just the Primals scaling above Mountain in physicality and existence. Why is this not a Mountain level feat for her?
Click to expand...
Durability Negation go weeeeee. It's not an AP Feat, it's biological manipulation / Magic BS. Not every feat has a quantifiable number attached to it.
Aaaaa11112222 said:
Also speaking of Gun Devil, I don't see why Makima wouldn't scale to Mountain considering she harmed Pochita gravely with her bangs, and her AP just scaling in general to Pochita, who should be above 100% Gun Devil, and 28% or just a FAR lower percent Gun Devil in the manga did the Mountain level stuff.
Click to expand...
Erupting out of the side of a mountain is not Mountain level, in the same sense that punching a hole through the side of a building is not Building level. it was calced to Town level. Mountain level starts at the yield of the largest nuclear bomb ever created and goes to ten times that.
Aaaaa11112222 said:
Also, even ignoring that 20% Gun Devil's kinetic energy alone was calculated to Large Island, I'm sure you saw it, why was that not accepted?
Click to expand...
Because the calc's premise was wrong. It assumed that the Gun Devil traveled from DC to Japan in 12 seconds, which didn't happen in the story.

Also even if it did happen, it would violate KE Calc Rules, as Large Island level would be way too high compared to 20% Gun's shown level of destruction. Heck, even Town level was pushing it.
Aaaaa11112222 said:
I also saw that even Small Town level Denji wasn't accepted (from him killing Katana Man who endured that feat).
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, what manga are you reading where Katana Man fought 20% Gun?
Aaaaa11112222 said:
If not, it's this
Click to expand...
Volume: ~8m * 0.8m * 2.5m = ~160,000 m^3[???]
Click to expand...
1. Whoever made this converted from meters to centimeters, got ~160,000 cubic centimeters, but mistakingly left it as meters. As a result, the number is 10,000 times higher than it should be.

2. What planet does that person live on where the average male head is over half a meter tall? Girth (distance around the skull / circumference) and diameter are two different things.

3. Even if we used that nonsense weight for the 20% Gun Devil, which is over 500 times the current mass for the 20% Gun KE Calc, it wouldn't be anywhere close to Large Island level.
FuriousFieryFist said:
Can we follow up on this? To my knowledge there's not one statement directly tying fear scaling to hybrids. We just assume that since it works for Devils and fiends that it should also apply to hybrids, however we've been told multiple times throughout the story that hybrids are something else entirely. With that in mind until we get concrete evidence of fear scaling working on them, we should treat their level of power as static and unchanging (Unless they train). This offers a way less convoluted scaling chain when trying to figure out how Denji one-shot the bat Devil in part two despite supposedly being weakened and also results in a way easier scaling chain for the hybrids themselves.
Click to expand...
I'll cook something up when I have the time...
 
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FuriousFieryFist said:
Can we follow up on this? To my knowledge there's not one statement directly tying fear scaling to hybrids. We just assume that since it works for Devils and fiends that it should also apply to hybrids, however we've been told multiple times throughout the story that hybrids are something else entirely.
Click to expand...
Hybrids are devil-humans. Part devil, part human. And why hybrids are something else entirely that we don't know about is because the concept that referred to them was erased from existence.

When they are just regular humans, they are not affected by their devils empowerment, when they are transformed into a devil, they get that empowerment boost, all considering them getting leagues stronger than they were previously. This has been shown with Denji throughout the manga. They are a special case because they are effectively immortal. That's pretty much all there is to it.

If hybrids were not affected by fear, then they are not devils. (Impossible)
 
GunshyFever said:
Hybrids are devil-humans. Part devil, part human. And why hybrids are something else entirely that we don't know about is because the concept that referred to them was erased from existence.

When they are just regular humans, they are not affected by their devils empowerment, when they are transformed into a devil, they get that empowerment boost, all considering them getting leagues stronger than they were previously. This has been shown with Denji throughout the manga. They are a special case because they are effectively immortal. That's pretty much all there is to it.

If hybrids were not affected by fear, then they are not devils. (Impossible)
Click to expand...
True, but if Hybrids are affected by Fear Scaling, then I'm running into the distinct possibility that Miri is not nine times stronger than Reze, but eleven to forty-f*cking-seven times stronger.

And I don't care what the mechanics of the Verse are, Miri is not halfway up Multi-City Block level, and he definitely isn't zero-diff one-shotting Reze.
 
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Look upon my bullshit ye' mighty, and despair
High Mid - Hybrid Sandwich Dropkick: 81.53 tons of TNT
High Tiers - Upscaling: 100 tons of TNT
High Top - Snake's Snoot Droop: 436.94 tons of TNT
  • Akane w/ Full Snake (The feat was not performed with normal summoning conditions, so it's unknown if she can normally summon it to this level)
  • Post-Fear Boost Hybrid Denji (Via Fear Scaling)
  • Post-Fear Boost Hybrid Denji's piercing damage (At least, impaled Hybrid Miri)
  • Hybrid Miri (Stronger than Whip given performance against Denji, took a knee to the jaw from him)
  • Hybrid Miri's piercing damage (At least, impaled Denji)
  • Human Quanxi w/ cutting damage (At least, decapitated Hybrid Miri, stabbed Nail through his(?) uniform)
  • Post-Chainsaw Man Church Yoru w/ cutting damage (At least, had a sword fight with Quanxi)
  • Hybrid Quanxi (At least, could actually fight the Pochita Clone, stronger than Post-Fear Boost Hybrid Denji, but less fearsome)
  • Pochita Clone (At least, got a double KO w/ Hybrid Quanxi)
  • Fiend Dolls under Post-Darkness Santa (At least, can stab Hybrid Quanxi)
Top Tiers - Upscaling: 550 tons of TNT
  • Makima (Punched off Chainsaw Man's limbs, breaking his saws on one occasion)
  • Nighttime Santa (Given "the power to kill Makima," brushed off Quanxi's barrage)
  • Hybrid Quanxi's Piercing Damage (Nighttime Santa bothered snapping her arrows instead of getting hit by them)
  • Pochita Clone's Piercing Damage (At least, tore through Makima)
  • Blood Devil Power's Blood Manipulation (At least, harmed Makima, pierced a ton of Public Safety uniforms)
  • Denji w/ Power Saw (At least, continuously harmed Makima)
  • Post-Chainsaw Man Church Yoru w/ Room 606 Sword (Upscales from Scalpel Sword given the value of the Room 606 Sword)
  • Angel w/ Millenium Spear (At least, utterly wrecked Weakened Pochita)
 
Last edited:
GunshyFever said:
Hybrids are devil-humans. Part devil, part human. And why hybrids are something else entirely that we don't know about is because the concept that referred to them was erased from existence.

When they are just regular humans, they are not affected by their devils empowerment, when they are transformed into a devil, they get that empowerment boost, all considering them getting leagues stronger than they were previously. This has been shown with Denji throughout the manga. They are a special case because they are effectively immortal. That's pretty much all there is to it.

If hybrids were not affected by fear, then they are not devils. (Impossible)
Click to expand...
To quote Makima "They are not humans, devils, or fiends" so we have a direct statement that rejects the notion that they turn into devils and thus must experiance fear boosting. Every instance of hybrids growing stronger (Which to my knowledge is just denji) can also be explained by training.
 
FuriousFieryFist said:
To quote Makima "They are not humans, devils, or fiends" so we have a direct statement that rejects the notion
Click to expand...
Apart from the very first chapter of the manga, this statement also refers to what they are called. Obviously, they are not just one or the other since they are both, which is why we fanonically call them hybrids, because the name they were originally referred to no longer exists.
FuriousFieryFist said:
Every instance of hybrids growing stronger (Which to my knowledge is just denji) can also be explained by training.
Click to expand...
This is simply false, even before Denji began training it has been narratively shown in the story that once a hybrid transforms they get relatively stronger, even without training.
 
ElajRuengies said:
Durability Negation go weeeeee. It's not an AP Feat, it's biological manipulation / Magic BS. Not every feat has a quantifiable number attached to it.

Erupting out of the side of a mountain is not Mountain level, in the same sense that punching a hole through the side of a building is not Building level. it was calced to Town level. Mountain level starts at the yield of the largest nuclear bomb ever created and goes to ten times that. I don't want to ask your age, but the fact that you can't comprehend that makes me doubt I'm talking to a highschooler.

Because the calc's premise was wrong. It assumed that the Gun Devil traveled from DC to Japan in 12 seconds, which didn't happen in the story.

Also even if it did happen, it would violate KE Calc Rules, as Large Island level would be way too high compared to 20% Gun's shown level of destruction. Heck, even Town level was pushing it.

I'm sorry, what manga are you reading where Katana Man fought 20% Gun?


1. Whoever made this converted from meters to centimeters, got ~160,000 cubic centimeters, but mistakingly left it as meters. As a result, the number is 10,000 times higher than it should be.

2. What planet does that person live on where the average male head is over half a meter tall? Girth (distance around the skull / circumference) and diameter are two different things.

3. Even if we used that bullshit weight for the 20% Gun Devil, which is over 500 times the current mass for the 20% Gun KE Calc, it wouldn't be anywhere close to Large Island level.

I'll cook something up when I have the time...
Click to expand...
The only large island level is my pending calc (watch it gets accepted, hair scaling is real).
 
GunshyFever said:
Now things make a whole lot more sense.
Click to expand...
The Verse's scaling or my horror?
FuriousFieryFist said:
Every instance of hybrids growing stronger (Which to my knowledge is just denji) can also be explained by training.
Click to expand...
GunshyFever said:
This is simply false, even before Denji began training it has been narratively shown in the story that once a hybrid transforms they get relatively stronger, even without training.
Click to expand...
They mean the Hybrid Form getting stronger over time, not the human form transforming into the Hybrid Form. Obviously the Weapon Form is gonna be above their base.

Anywho, while Denji did still get weekly training from Kishibe, him going from being able to just barely scrape by wins against Katana Man and Reze, to being able to fight against the Gun Fiend, who should be at comparable to unmasked Violence (who's stronger than Human Quanxi given his performance against Darkness), is too big a gap to be explained without a Fear Boost from the news being leaked. (And that's before factoring in PS Uniform scaling.)
 
Last edited:
Ped2018 said:
Never killed it, i still think it's a bang and y'all's head canon ain't changing that
Click to expand...
Bang is a power of the Gun Devil as confirmed through Yoru & the Right Gun Gauntlet, Makima hadn't conquered the Gun Devil yet when she fought Darkness Devil.

This is not to mention how Bang and Makima's pointing ability have nothing in common– in effect or appearance– aside from having a similar hand gesture.
 
She was walkin' around with a loaded shotgun
Ready to fire me a hot one
It went bang, bang, bang straight through my heart (straight through my heart)
Although I could have walked away
I stood my ground and let her spray

She shot me, she shot me
Bang, bang, she shot me
She shot me, she shot me
Bang, bang, she shot me
She shot me, she shot me
Bang, bang, she shot me
She shot me, she shot me
Bang, bang
 
images
 
GunshyFever said:
Finished with Hybrid Scaling.
Click to expand...
Didn't catch this, but base Katana Man should be at 0.00672 tons, given how Initial Power decked him. The nuts are a weak spot, him hurting Post-Training Denji by jumping on them doesn't count. (Also Yoru did the same despite being like dozens of times stronger than human Denji, so the scene was a gag anywho)

Also since Reze's self destruction and sparks being >>> her torpedoes was only a thing because PS Uniform scaling, which was jossed for her, the "even higher" / "far higher" ratings for those should be nixed. Plus her AP Section in general can be shortened, we don't need to recap the entire Reze Arc in her profile.
 
Hybrids are affected by fear boost.

Fami's plan revolves around boosting Pochita through fear and the current Pochita is a hybrid (there was also the whole HOH thing that also proves this).
 
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