Speed upgrade for two Instant Death characters

[Dishano]

1. Miss Fox Immeasurable speed Upgrade.

Zakuro sent a shadow/clone of himself to meet up with Haruto,



and in Volume 8, Miss Fox in the past timeline did the same thing as Zakuro, when her main body countered Wandering Edge blade and sent it back to the future, she made a clone of herself and then that clone followed the blade to where she ended up meeting Future Yogiri.



2. True Form Heavenly Record Eater Immeasurable speed upgrade.

The Heavenly Record Eater in it's true form should be comparable to Gods such as Vahanato, Kouryu, MalnaRilna etc, (those Gods currently have immeasurable speed rating)

The reason for that is because Heavenly Record Eater destroyed and killed many celestial foundations with Gods in it.

In Volume 3, A Heavenly Record Eater almost destroy MalnaRilna's celestial foundation.



Worlds = Celestial foundations.

 

[Dishano]

bump

 

[Eisoks]

Seems fine

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Hard disagree with this, did you even read the debunk?

 

[Eisoks]

What debunk?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

What debunk?

He is trying to get the ratings back, which has recently been debunked.

 

[Eisoks]

He is trying to get the ratings back, which has recently been debunked.

Miss Fox's immeasurable speed upgrade seems fine. What's wrong with it?

 

[SweetDao]

Miss Fox's immeasurable speed upgrade seems fine. What's wrong with it?

Everything.

How does sending a clone/shadow through time is considered Immeasurable speed? I wonder. Anything, that's just glorified teleportation and that's it. Especially when we know the Wandering Edge ability to travel to the past isn't thanks to speed but an intrinsic capability.

 

[Eisoks]

Everything.

How does sending a clone/shadow through time is considered Immeasurable speed? I wonder. Anything, that's just glorified teleportation and that's it. Especially when we know the Wandering Edge ability to travel to the past isn't thanks to speed but an intrinsic capability.

After rereading the scan I can see why it isn't a speed feat thanks for correcting me

 

[SweetDao]

After rereading the scan I can see why it isn't a speed feat thanks for correcting me

That's fine, as long as you're reasonable I'm happy to help!

 

[Dishano]

Hard disagree with this, did you even read the debunk?

I did.

SweetDao argument: Firstly, it isn't done through sheer speed, since its speed has been described as "slow".

The knife didn't disappeared and went back in time yet, and that scan is referring to Yoshifumi's normal speed because he is the one that threw the knife, and Takumi's speed at that moment is higher than Yoshifumi's speed.

SweetDao argument: same with Miss Fox since I'm quite sure intercepting the knife, without any supplementary context, would just mean she stopped the knife when it was flying, not time-traveling. (and even then, I'm not sure it would give anything)

1. Miss Fox stopped the knife when it already in the past timeline and protected Baby Yogiri.

The knife already did the time-traveling.

2. Miss Fox then send the knife back to the future, she made a clone to "follow" the knife, and after that she ended up meeting Future Yogiri.

 

[SweetDao]

The knife didn't disappeared and went back in time yet, and that scan is referring to Yoshifumi's normal speed because he is the one that threw the knife, and Takumi's speed at that moment is higher than Yoshifumi's speed.

Yeah, which mean it isn't via speed, it's done via an ability.

1. Miss Fox stopped the knife when it already in the past timeline and protected Baby Yogiri.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Good job.

2. Miss Fox then send the knife back to the future, she made a clone to "follow" the knife, and after that she ended up meeting Future Yogiri.

Which isn't immeasurable.

Is there anything else?

 

[Dishano]

Everything.

How does sending a clone/shadow through time is considered Immeasurable speed? I wonder. Anything, that's just glorified teleportation and that's it. Especially when we know the Wandering Edge ability to travel to the past isn't thanks to speed but an intrinsic capability.

Miss Fox didn't teleported to the future, her clone which is basically herself followed the knife back to the future.

The knife went to back to future first and pierced Yoshifumi's chest, then Miss Fox clone came second after some time went by with Yoshifumi's dialogue of wondering why is the knife in his chest.

 

[KingNanaya]

I agree with @SweetDao , as there is nothing here that debunks what was in the downgrade thread. This is just stating the same arguments that were already disproven prior and praying that they work.

 

[SweetDao]

Miss Fox didn't teleported to the future, her clone which is basically herself followed the knife back to the future.

Yes, her clone did so. Even if you were to assume that somehow she followed the "time tunnel" the knife created, it would still not be immeasurable, since it would be under a very specific condition that she can't do in normal circumstances.

The knife went to back to future first and pierced Yoshifumi's chest, then Miss Fox clone came second after some time went by with Yoshifumi's dialogue of wondering why is the knife in his chest.

She literally state its thanks to her COMING HERE that she managed to counter it. Heck, your interpretation is even worse because that's just further re-affirm that she did so under very specific circumstances (thanks to the blade creating the path for her to follow), which is something she can't do normally.

 

[Dishano]

she did so under very specific circumstances (thanks to the blade creating the path for her to follow), which is something she can't do normally

Miss Fox followed the blade to that certain future timeline, if she didn't she would've gone to another future timeline.

You can't say she can't do it normally.

 

[SweetDao]

You can't say she can't do it normally.

Oh? And why? Because you do know that, if she can do it normally, she could've come anytime to save Yogiri. See how your interpretation destroy any narrative? The whole point with Miss Fox stuff is that, while she could exceptionally come there thanks to the blade, she can't do so again. If she could, that would've made no sense whatsoever.

Miss Fox followed the blade to that certain future timeline, if she didn't she would've gone to another future timeline.

No, the blade helped her know where he was (Mitsuki's HR), nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Voidnether]

God, this is just a terrible take.

First off, you'd have to prove that there are two different timelines and Miss Fox was able to switch between these two timelines through sheer speed for the requirement themselves (As in Immeasurable Speed being non-linear in nature).

Honestly though? Seeing the case here, none of it qualifies for that as a whole.

Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed. However, traveling to different time periods through movement is a common feat in fiction that often leads to inconsistencies and has been done via FTL travel or running laps around the earth faster than it rotates. This can lead to characters being assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated case by case.

Sometimes I don't get why y'all just give immeasurable speed when the characters mentioned are just time travelling and overall still restricted by their linear time like obviously going to the past through sheer speed or the future so on and forth doesn't even qualify for that..

 

[SweetDao]

Sometimes I don't get why y'all just give immeasurable speed when the characters mentioned are just time travelling and overall still restricted by their linear time like obviously going to the past through sheer speed or the future so on and forth doesn't even qualify for that..

And that's not the worst part, the whole HRE getting immeasurable speed because he ate a universe "containing immeasurable speed character" is beyond me.

Also, immeasurable being needing taxi to avoid "wasting time", because it's funny.

 

[Voidnether]

Miss Fox followed the blade to that certain future timeline, if she didn't she would've gone to another future timeline.

You can't say she can't do it normally.

Unfortunately doesn't mean anything, you can pretty much have time branch on just one temporal dimension and moving between timelines there doesn't mean anything because it's still a timeline (if described in imaginary time, the timeline there still start with a time limit like 0, 1, 2, 3 second and so on). That's not the case for immeasurable speed, you must have two timelines with it being two time axes (two temporal dimensions) and you're able to atleast move to the other temporal dimension with sheer speed (described in imaginary time analogy again, it means you're not restricted by the time limit thus an additional time axis here as the 5th dimension is just -1) <- Why multiple temporal dimensions count as immeasurable speed

If I simplify it, you can have timelines branching and it's still a timeline. You moving from one to another time branching timeline isn't a requirement for it.

The simplest way to get this is to just transcend space-time as a whole, you can access any point in the past-present-future like Information Particles on Tensura or you could have someone who attacks so fast it already happened in the past (This means, obviously that it operates outside the timeline themselves) or Venuzdonoa in which time just doesn't matter.

 

[Voidnether]

And that's not the worst part, the whole HRE getting immeasurable speed because he ate a universe "containing immeasurable speed character" is beyond me.

Also, immeasurable being needing taxi to avoid "wasting time", because it's funny.

Right, I just remember about the HRE justification..

How'd I forget about that, that was literally the reason back when this thread has like 0 replies I just dipped it because I genuinely thought the staff is gonna close it: But no, this became popular somehow..

That was something else tbh, better justification would be "oh yeah all the gods get immeasurable speed because they're equal" nonetheless it's still a bad justification because there are so many statements in ID contradicting it (what is the author even doing)

 

[SweetDao]

That was something else tbh, better justification would be "oh yeah all the gods get immeasurable speed because they're equal" nonetheless it's still a bad justification because there are so many statements in ID contradicting it (what is the author even doing)

Takumi is a counter example of this, but obviously no one will tell you so. He got power from a God, he somehow managed to become stronger than the God who gave him his power and killed him. Therefore, he should somehow be Immeasurable speed, yet, he couldn't stop the wandering Edge from messing with his past.

Gods do have at the very least one minuscule immeasurable speed feat, but it's probably not something they can do casually. Although, we'll need to wait for Volume 15 to be certain of the phrasing.

 

[Voidnether]

and in Volume 8, Miss Fox in the past timeline did the same thing as Zakuro, when her main body countered Wandering Edge blade and sent it back to the future, she made a clone of herself and then that clone followed the blade to where she ended up meeting Future Yogiri.

Great, so she's still restricted by the timeline, yes? There's no indications whatsoever about her being non-linear in nature.

The Heavenly Record Eater in it's true form should be comparable to Gods such as Vahanato, Kouryu, MalnaRilna etc, (those Gods currently have immeasurable speed rating)

No.

The reason for that is because Heavenly Record Eater destroyed and killed many celestial foundations with Gods in it.

This is just destructive capacity at most.

I think I simplified it.

 

[Voidnether]

Takumi is a counter example of this, but obviously no one will tell you so. He got power from a God, he somehow managed to become stronger than the God who gave him his power and killed him. Therefore, he should somehow be Immeasurable speed, yet, he couldn't stop the wandering Edge from messing with his past.

Most consistent verse

Gods do have at the very least one minuscule immeasurable speed feat, but it's probably not something they can do casually. Although, we'll need to wait for Volume 15 to be certain of the phrasing.

If it's not something they can do casually then it would've probably been an ability cause what the hell is limited immeasurable speed..

 

[SweetDao]

Most consistent verse

I mean, some stuff is glazed beyond anything and not the author's fault, but some stuff remains pretty contradictory, I'd say. Overall, the story holds itself, barely though.

If it's not something they can do casually then it would've probably been an ability cause what the hell is limited immeasurable speed..

Well, we'll see when the time comes, either it's FTL+time travel (killing any possibility of the verse being above FTL) or it's something that they need to achieve (going from "normal speed" and becoming so fast that you can go back in time) either way, it's not their baseline.

 

[Voidnether]

I mean, some stuff is glazed beyond anything and not the author's fault, but some stuff remains pretty contradictory, I'd say. Overall, the story holds itself, barely though.

It's decent, but not gonna lie it's just too overglazed to the point where the author apparently knows powerscaling just to get it downgraded after ultima's revisions

Well, we'll see when the time comes, either it's FTL+time travel (killing any possibility of the verse being above FTL) or it's something that they need to achieve (going from "normal speed" and becoming so fast that you can go back in time) either way, it's not their baseline.

I think the second option would qualify, if it's mentioned that they're not restricted by time as a whole and they're free to go in wherever time points.. But I doubt it anyways. Might have to hold that for a while

 

[SweetDao]

It's decent, but not gonna lie it's just too overglazed to the point where the author apparently knows powerscaling just to get it downgraded after ultima's revisions

I think he's aware just vaguely, his story isn't as "bad" as some people say, it's like any average isekai with a gimmick. Also, Ultima's revision or not, it still should've never been 1-A in the first place, Ultima just help make it smoother.

I think the second option would qualify, if it's mentioned that they're not restricted by time as a whole and they're free to go in wherever time points.. But I doubt it anyways. Might have to hold that for a while

I'll send you the stuff in private.

 

[Voidnether]

I'll send you the stuff in private.

I give up.

 

[Dishano]

Oh? And why? Because you do know that, if she can do it normally, she could've come anytime to save Yogiri. See how your interpretation destroy any narrative? The whole point with Miss Fox stuff is that, while she could exceptionally come there thanks to the blade, she can't do so again. If she could, that would've made no sense whatsoever.

Why would Past Miss Fox save Future Yogiri when he wasn't in danger at anytime in the future timeline?

The reason Miss Fox went to Future Yogiri this one time is because the knife went in the past to try and kill Baby Yogiri, she countered the blade and she wants to see the person that tried to attack Baby Yogiri.

No, the blade helped her know where he was (Mitsuki's HR), nothing more, nothing less.

She would still need to be immeasurable speed to reach Future Yogiri.

First off, you'd have to prove that there are two different timelines and Miss Fox was able to switch between these two timelines through sheer speed for the requirement themselves (As in Immeasurable Speed being non-linear in nature).

They're many timelines with different version of Yogiri through Author statement and feats of Darian.

and i see it as Miss Fox doing the similar thing as Hedgehog as to where it sensed the wavelengths of Malna god energy, he showed immeasurable speed before, but he couldn't reach Malna because the energy disappeared.

The knife was already in future timeline in Yoshifumi's chest and Miss Fox followed the path to reach that timeline rather than going to other timelines.

 

[SweetDao]

Why would Past Miss Fox save Future Yogiri when he wasn't in danger at anytime in the future timeline?

The reason Miss Fox went to Future Yogiri this one time is because the knife went in the past to try and kill Baby Yogiri, she countered the blade and she wants to see the person that tried to attack Baby Yogiri.

Yeah, and Yogiri asked her if she could bring them back, to which she said she couldn't. If she truly had baseline immeasurable, as soon as she knew it, she would've come to rescue them and bring them back to their world.

She would still need to be immeasurable speed to reach Future Yogiri.

No.

 

[Voidnether]

They're many timelines with different version of Yogiri through Author statement and feats of Darian.

Doesn't mean anything, you can have a multiverse concept with just one temporal dimension as in time branching.

and i see it as Miss Fox doing the similar thing as Hedgehog as to where it sensed the wavelengths of Malna god energy, he showed immeasurable speed before, but he couldn't reach Malna because the energy disappeared.

Hedgehog isn't immeasurable. It's the very nature of the "environment" themselves that allows Hedgehog for that.

The knife was already in future timeline in Yoshifumi's chest and Miss Fox followed the path to reach that timeline rather than going to other timelines.

Going through timeline doesn't make you immeasurable. You stated it yourself after your next sentence, in which she's not going to other timelines. Hell, even if she does. You can't prove that it's two temporal dimensions.

She would still need to be immeasurable speed to reach Future Yogiri.

Why would her going through time gives her immeasurable? No, if you're not outside the timeline with no indications of being independent from that timeline at the very least. You wouldn't get immeasurable speed, I said it myself that it's possible for time branching to create different timelines but in a way it's still a timeline. MCU is a good example where there's one sacred timeline and thousands of different timelines, in this case you would need to be independent from the sacred timeline by going outside that timeline through sheer speed.

 

[Dishano]

This is just destructive capacity at most.

Heavenly Record Eater would still need to be comparable in speed to these Gods, because if it wasn't for Yogiri's action it would've destroy the world before those Gods can react and defend themselves.

Yeah, and Yogiri asked her if she could bring them back, to which she said she couldn't. If she truly had baseline immeasurable, as soon as she knew it, she would've come to rescue them and bring them back to their world.

Yogiri asked Miss Fox if she can bring him to her timeline but she declined.

He didn't asked if she can bring him back to their world.

 

[SweetDao]

Heavenly Record Eater would still need to be comparable in speed to these Gods, because if it wasn't for Yogiri's action it would've destroy the world before those Gods can react and defend themselves.

No.

Yogiri asked Miss Fox if she can bring him to her timeline but she declined.

No, he asked her if she could bring them back to their world. She couldn't because not only she can't under normal circumstances but also because it was just a shadow of herself.

He didn't asked if she can bring him back to their world.

He did.

 

[Voidnether]

Heavenly Record Eater would still need to be comparable in speed to these Gods, because if it wasn't for Yogiri's action it would've destroy the world before those Gods can react and defend themselves.

Absurd headcanon for HRE to be comparable to those Gods with that justification, you can't say she's comparable just because the sole fact that Gods can't react and defend themselves with that. As a hypothesis, if HRE manages to destroy the world themselves it'll still be destructive capacity. It doesn't make HRE immeasurable in any way possible not even immeasurable attack speed. Also, those same Gods weren't immeasurable in any way if you're using the argument that because of their immeasurable nature then they could've traveled to the past or other places at the least.

 

[Robo432343]

Disagree fra
(fraud verse btw)

 

[Dishano]

No, he asked her if she could bring them back to their world. She couldn't because not only she can't under normal circumstances but also because it was just a shadow of herself.

He did.

“Can you bring me back with you?”

He asked Past Miss Fox to bring him to her timeline, but she declined.

Where did it stated that he asked her to bring him to his world in his timeline?

Absurd headcanon for HRE to be comparable to those Gods with that justification, you can't say she's comparable just because the sole fact that Gods can't react and defend themselves with that. As a hypothesis, if HRE manages to destroy the world themselves it'll still be destructive capacity. It doesn't make HRE immeasurable in any way possible not even immeasurable attack speed. Also, those same Gods weren't immeasurable in any way if you're using the argument that because of their immeasurable nature then they could've traveled to the past or other places at the least.

Not headcannon, Gods can fight off Heavenly Record Eaters & Heavily Record Eaters killed Gods and their worlds.

And this HRE almost destroy and killed MalnaRilna and their world and other Gods in that world at that moment in time.

 

[Voidnether]

Not headcannon, Gods can fight off Heavenly Record Eaters & Heavily Record Eaters killed Gods and their worlds.

Why don't you just use this justification instead other than HRE destroying their worlds as a whole? Also, no, Gods aren't immeasurable. So this would be rated as "Unknown" at the moment.

Your premise by itself is unclear, when you use the argument that HRE destroys their worlds and they can't react to it if Yogiri wasn't around. It indicates that HRE is superior than Gods in terms of speed, yet you still make them equal.

I honestly don't get what you're trying to say here.

 

[SweetDao]

Where did it stated that he asked her to bring him to his world in his timeline?

The whole problem is that Yogiri is stranded in another world, the whole PLOT IS ABOUT THEM TRYING TO GO BACK TO THEIR HOMEWORLD. Why the F would he ask her to just go back to her timeline?

 

[Voidnether]

The whole problem is that Yogiri is stranded in another world, the whole PLOT IS ABOUT THEM TRYING TO GO BACK TO THEIR HOMEWORLD. Why the F would he ask her to just go back to her timeline?

Why didn't Yogiri just travel to their homeworld though in the series? Is he stupid or something?? Immeasurable nature in itself allows you to travel other universes literally because you're not restricted by 4th dimension

Quoting from FC/OC:

Characters who can move freely through space-time without the need for Portal Creation or Dimensional Travel, as their nature alone allows them to travel to other worlds, universes or timelines, existing beyond the Fourth Dimension and not limited by it. The difference between immeasurable and infinite speed is that infinite speed allows the user to go anywhere instantly, while immeasurable speed allows the user to go anywhere and anytime faster than instantaneously.

This is probably the stupidest character induced stupidity that I have ever seen, like why didn't Yogiri just end the series in episode 1 by literally going back to their homeworld? Wtf..

 

[KingNanaya]

Quoting from FC/OC:

Why on EARTH are you citng FC/OC????