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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Going through GT for various haxes, resistances, and feats is interesting, because there's just tons of stuff I don't remember ever happening that I find and just kind of go, "Huh." A good example is it's established in Episode 17 that Goku's power, (while unconscious) is simply impossible to calculate. This also isn't a "oooo malfunction" or "SCOUTER BREAK!" due to battle power too. They outright state the machine is working fine and there's no errors. Goku's power simply just isn't calculable. Due to this, Rildo and Mega Cannon Sigma have to utilize Giru's accumulated data across the entire series so far to determine how to beat Goku. It's then stated in Episode 18 that Goku's power (When serious in base) exceeds "all previous data." Which would include Goku as a SSJ against Ledgic, the fight with Luud, etc. Meaning that between those episodes he just got 50x stronger? Bare minimum. This is something they confirm again, because when Goku was "losing" (holding back and they were fighting at Goku's estimated max capacity) Rildo considered the information incredibly accurate despite the fact he was also aware of SSJ (which he establishes when he sees Goku go SSJ and he goes Hyper Meta). Crazy.
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GT as a whole has weird resistances for Goku the pages here are bare bones
RoninSlayer200
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GT Goku is just that guy
Eden_Warlock99
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I think it's more likely that Goku was holding back against everyone prior to the Sigma Force, we know that Rilldo was the first guy in GT to surpass Kid Buu afterall.
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I have a quote for every form except SSJ2, and 2 quotes for SFPSSJ4.
Not likely, to be honest. Goku explicitly needed SSJ to defeat Ledgic, who was beyond his Base Form. Then later the Sigma Force were people "with power as awesome as theirs he hadn't seen in a long time." (Stronger than Ledgic). And then Rildo was "stronger than all the guys they've met so far" (on M-2, so stronger than Mega Cannon Sigma).
Eden_Warlock99
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Goku stating "The universe sure is a big place huh? His ki is even stronger than Buu's" basically outright confirms that the prior villains had yet to surpass Kid Buu tho.
Don't think Goku sandbagging against Ledgic is indicative of anything either, he sorta did the same thing against the Sigma Force and then proceeded to one-shot them in base.
I think the only way we can go with the Goku got stronger interpretation is if we say BoGT Goku got significantly weaker we he became a child.
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Except he explicitly wasn’t. Goku needed Super Saiyan to defeat Ledgic. I also think that taking the statement to overwrite other events is iffy.
Eden_Warlock99
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It's just pretty contradictory. It sorta also ends up making Goten thousands of times stronger than Goku, when he's considered the strongest on Earth.
BlastX
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Yeah GT had that bullshit that Goku and the others randomly jump in power through the series, it's even a common thing in the Kanzeshuu forums when discussing GT power levels to say everyone after M2 is stronger than anything in Z.
StarShooter80
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i mean it's not as bad as the ss4 multiplier thread i read where the op was literally assuming 90%of the stuff
StarShooter80
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I might add that as a quote for Krillin
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fair, should've censored it
teenager bulma was going crazy with the slurs tho
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This is actually weird, because it’s heavily implied by Baby that Vegeta is the strongest on Earth (period, not at that time/when Goku’s gone, because he repeatedly asserts “the Strongest in the Universe”) after scanning through the mind and memories of every Saiyan as he works his way up the ladder. I’m not saying he’s correct, either. I’m saying as you said: It’s incredibly contradictory.
My Headcanon on the fly explanation currently is that maybe everyone on Earth thought Goku was massively nerfed by the wish (and only Pan and Trunks know the truth after fighting alongside him), and that Baby’s ego and tunnel vision on Vegeta’s bloodline (the most powerful naturally generated Saiyan/Pureblood Saiyan with most potential) made him believe something that wasn’t true, as it just reinforced the false beliefs/biases he had about their powers since he was targeting the Vegeta bloodline anyway.
(Baby possessing Trunks doesn’t inform Baby this is a lie, either, because the Tuffle explains quite explicitly that the Hybrid kicking him out in such short time prevented analysis of his memories.)
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BOG downgrade via charge of the gods of destruction, what will happen next week?
XSOULOFCINDERX
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what's that?
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Why Is BoG Anime Goku Still Considered 2c?
It's established that 2 destroyers aren't allowed to engage in combat with each other due to their fight causing the destruction of the universe their fighting in overtime with Whis and Vados quickly intervening with serious tones and reminding Beerus and Champa as to why they're not allowed to...
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Why Is BoG Anime Goku Still Considered 2c?
It's established that 2 destroyers aren't allowed to engage in combat with each other due to their fight causing the destruction of the universe their fighting in overtime with Whis and Vados quickly intervening with serious tones and reminding Beerus and Champa as to why they're not allowed to...vsbattles.com
Why Is BoG Anime Goku Still Considered 2c?
It's established that 2 destroyers aren't allowed to engage in combat with each other due to their fight causing the destruction of the universe their fighting in overtime with Whis and Vados quickly intervening with serious tones and reminding Beerus and Champa as to why they're not allowed to...
Then people here blame others for the bad reputation DB Supporters have............man, the irony made me laugh pages ago, now i am just bored by it
Fezzih_007
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I know right, the way people argue here leave me shocked.Why Is BoG Anime Goku Still Considered 2c?
It's established that 2 destroyers aren't allowed to engage in combat with each other due to their fight causing the destruction of the universe their fighting in overtime with Whis and Vados quickly intervening with serious tones and reminding Beerus and Champa as to why they're not allowed to...
Then people here blame others for the bad reputation DB Supporters have............man, the irony made me laugh pages ago, now i am just bored by it
Is probally a difference in maturity.
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Bro did you not start this discussion with this scene? Ofc Sigma Force were stronger than Ledgic but up until Planet M-2 no one was stronger than the strongest Majin Buu narratively speaking until Base Rildo who was stronger than the Sigma Force who got molly wopped by a Goku who admitted to holding back, which would make sense unless you want to argue SSJ Trunks > Mutchy > SSJ Goku > Base Goku > Lord Luud off of the premise that Goku needed SSJ.
Goku getting a stronger boost in any of those scenerios would entertain a GT Goten and Trunks being stronger than Base Goku.
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Why Is BoG Anime Goku Still Considered 2c?
It's established that 2 destroyers aren't allowed to engage in combat with each other due to their fight causing the destruction of the universe their fighting in overtime with Whis and Vados quickly intervening with serious tones and reminding Beerus and Champa as to why they're not allowed to...
Then people here blame others for the bad reputation DB Supporters have............man, the irony made me laugh pages ago, now i am just bored by it
Demon_Lord18
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Demon_Lord18
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Dragon Ball is popular so everything a DB fan says is toxic raaa lmao.Why Is BoG Anime Goku Still Considered 2c?
It's established that 2 destroyers aren't allowed to engage in combat with each other due to their fight causing the destruction of the universe their fighting in overtime with Whis and Vados quickly intervening with serious tones and reminding Beerus and Champa as to why they're not allowed to...
Then people here blame others for the bad reputation DB Supporters have............man, the irony made me laugh pages ago, now i am just bored by it
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Whhhhy would we put Mutchi below Trunks or above SSJ Goku? Base Trunks only killed Mutchi by catching him off guard. Trunks only went SSJ to beat the weight of Mutchi’s telekinetic rocks. Similarly, Goku needed SSJ to beat out the spells Mutchi could perform, like breaking out of being captured by his Earth Manipulation and not to compete with him physically. Even if we did ignore all that, Mutchi was beating Goku by removing SSJ (by draining him of Ki and hitting him against a hard surface to break concentration to force him out the form) not overwhelming him with raw force. (Though he admittedly did do so to start that strategy with his Whips to begin his train and slam.)
If anything, it’s: Mutchi < Luud < Trunks < Goku. (It should also be noted that 2nd Form Luud is specifically stated to be inferior to SSJ Goku and Trunks by the Narrator, and as Mutchi is weaker than that version of Luud, it means Mutchi could never exceed either of their powers in that fight).
Though even if we swapped out 2nd Form Luud and Mutchi, the difference is pretty minimal given neither scale to the SSJs.
Also note, I don’t find this compelling at all. By Pital Baby has all the power of Level 3 Luud, (and MORE) with both Goku and Trunks struggling to defeat him in base at that stage (needing to target a weak spot). Even ignoring that, by Pital Baby's also hopped into Rildo, and as we know when he possesses a body he siphons off their powers. Not to mention it's pretty clearly established that (Infant) Baby's power on awakening was "unreal" compared to anything they'd seen before that. And then when he possesses Trunks on Pital, Baby goes on to say "His power is UNBELIEVABLE!!" Taking on Trunks in his eyes gave him an insane power boost, and then Trunks with his Saiya Power ("Am I really not strong enough? This this the TRUE depth of SAIYA POWER?!") was enough to eject him because his power was simply just too much. A Rildo + Luud + MORE combo found GT TRUNKS "too strong." By all accounts, Trunks is stronger than Buu (logistically). But obviously that doesn't make much sense when out of the two, Goku was the only one capable of handling Rildo. So either A) Trunks grew between those moments or B) Trunks was secretly the strongest on the team. (This also occurs again. Despite powering up significantly, Goten for him was a MAJOR JUMP in power. He makes note of this directly, how despite failing with Trunks he's "finally attained this unreal Saiya power" and how Goten "is power, FULL of power!")
Similarly, Goku explicitly could not handle Ledgic in Base. He needed Super Saiyan. This is something we're outright shown and told. It's not debatable. Yet RIldo is "the first stronger than Buu." (Which isn't stated. While this is the first time Goku has directly made the comparison, Goku doesn't say no one else is on that level. Though admittedly it's a moot point since that's obviously the intent of the scene). So either Goku got stronger, or Goku sandbagged (explicitly not correct). This take also doesn't make much sense when Zenkai Boosts exist in series. No matter what, after each battle they necessarily get stronger. We also know that the Mid-Battle Zenkais exist within the Anime, because as Goku and Cell fought they were growing more powerful passively just from experiencing battle. So while there isn't a moment of "AHA, they got stronger!" from thing like training, or calling attention to Zenkai Boosts (at least until SSJ4 comes around and allows nullification of techniques as well) for increases in power, we know they are growing in battle.
Either the characters stagnated and the plot twists in on itself or the characters grew. (It should also be noted that Goku "admitted to holding back" specifically to Mega Cannon Sigma, not everyone else. In fact, he says "the reason why I did is because you have my data." So this line of logic doesn't even make sense.)
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Fezzih_007
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Hey look, a Straw man.
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Insult? It’s a joke stop taking yourself soo damn seriously.
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Are you really trying to debate your way into this making sense?
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