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Oh, forgot that Boogie Woogie requires the opponent to have cursed energy. In that case, I'll equalize the verses. Would that be sufficient? Cuz Itadori and Todo having the Boogie Woogie is like the main reason I made this thread.Killua and Gon not having curse energy for Todo's boogie woogie is gonna make this basically a h2h fight and I think Gon + Killua is gonna be way too much for Todo and Yuji to handle. I'll wait for more arguments but right now hxh bros skill stomp.
I'm personally against it since Nen and CE are far too different conceptually to be equalized.Oh, forgot that Boogie Woogie requires the opponent to have cursed energy. In that case, I'll equalize the verses. Would that be sufficient? Cuz Itadori and Todo having the Boogie Woogie is like the main reason I made this thread.
If they aren't similar then this can't be done I'd assume. Not equalizing it also doesn't stunt the fight, it would just be like if Todo fought Toji or Maki. So I don't see the reason in giving an advantage like that to the side that's already got higher ap, and better amps like black flash."Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen."
I mean, I don't particularly see how they're that different. Both are a type of energy within all living beings, some have more disposal for their energy due to genetics, there are different techniques with different classifications, they can be used to enhance their bodies and physical blows, used to create entirely new abilities through imagination. I don't see what's the big deal here, and other than the Boogie Woogie, for this case, equalizing the verses won't really have much bearing.I'm personally against it since Nen and CE are far too different conceptually to be equalized.
Not equalizing it stunts the fight pretty significantly, in my opinion. I disagree with the black flash being a better amp. With Nen, there's a conclusive amp and it's x10 at its maximum. Black Flash is just an undefined amount that the wiki has determined is just far higher since squaring it by 2.5 doesn't make any logical sense. Gon and Killua can also use their Nen abilities. Itadori and Todo need a cursed technique to even the playing field.I could be misinterpreting it but SBA says
If they aren't similar then this can't be done I'd assume. Not equalizing it also doesn't stunt the fight, it would just be like if Todo fought Toji or Maki. So I don't see the reason in giving an advantage like that to the side that's already got higher ap, and better amps like black flash.
ce is conceptual and informational, nen is like life energy.I mean, I don't particularly see how they're that different. Both are a type of energy within all living beings, some have more disposal for their energy due to genetics, there are different techniques with different classifications, they can be used to enhance their bodies and physical blows, used to create entirely new abilities through imagination. I don't see what's the big deal here, and other than the Boogie Woogie, for this case, equalizing the verses won't really have much bearing.
It doesn't stunt it at all, they can still fight one another and damage each other and kill each other. It just gets rid of Todo using it on them, he can still imbue stuff with ce, and teleport himself and Yuji like they did fighting Hanami. You're basically tryna get rid of the canon weakness to Todo's ct here which isn't needed for the match to work.Not equalizing it stunts the fight pretty significantly, in my opinion. I disagree with the black flash being a better amp. With Nen, there's a conclusive amp and it's x10 at its maximum. Black Flash is just an undefined amount that the wiki has determined is just far higher since squaring it by 2.5 doesn't make any logical sense. Gon and Killua can also use their Nen abilities. Itadori and Todo need a cursed technique to even the playing field.
Yuji being a skilled martial artist doesn't really matter, its not better than Killua's skill and intelligence. And Megumi said that based off strength, also Todo's school is pretty bad besides himself so that isn't saying much. He didn't stomp Choso, they were pretty relative in that fight and Choso showed greater skill towards the end. Him just swapping himself and Yuji or something else isn't gonna make the difference in getting a win though.Yuji is a very skilled martial artist himself, there’s Megumi’s statement he’d be able to solo Todo’s school if they all fought H2H and stomping Choso in close quarters. Todo is also really good with his Boogie Woogie.
Killua’s assassin training would let him win, but I wouldn’t call it a stomp against Yuji. And yeah, Todo’s class is bad but he should’ve been included in that statement and he’s impressive plus a genius. Choso also stated that he couldn’t hope to beat Yuji without Piercing Blood, he won because he armored himself on a whim, not combat skill. Yuji caught him completely off guard at the end.Yuji being a skilled martial artist doesn't really matter, it’s not better than Killua's skill and intelligence. And Megumi said that based off strength, also Todo's school is pretty bad besides himself so that isn't saying much. He didn't stomp Choso, they were pretty relative in that fight and Choso showed greater skill towards the end. Him just swapping himself and Yuji or something else isn't gonna make the difference in getting a win though.
I mentioned this in the Yuji vs Killua thread but imma repost it here:Alright, I've changed the keys so that now it's Greed Island Gon and Killua. I originally preferred not to do those keys because I thought it would be kind of a stomp in favor of Itadori and Todo due to the AP gap, but I guess Killua's experience could balance things out.
Think its just overall. Killua's a genius in general, Yuji's just gifted in combat and even his showings in combat aren't too impressive in general, nor is it ever against people with unique traits really. It won't be a stomp but I don't think Yuji will do relative to him.Yeah Killua’s assassin training would let him win, but I wouldn’t call it a stomp against Yuji.
I mean its still based off strength not overall skill iirc. But Todo isn't a genius, and his showings don't show that. The guy is just a ct and simple domain user after all.And yeah, Todo’s class is bad but he should’ve been included in that statement and he’s impressive plus a genius.
When did Choso say that? And it doesn't seem like a whim, seems he was confident in it already. Also Choso is an inexperienced fighter and still gave Yuji this much of a challenge. Since this is Post Shibuya I know he's much better now but did he really show more skill post shibuya? Combat skill, not curse energy control skill.Choso also stated that he couldn’t hope to beat Yuji without Piercing Blood, he won because he armored himself on a whim, not combat skill.
They just not catching them off guard and I said this already but DF is not something Yuji commonly uses in combat Post Shibuya or even during Shibuya so that isn't something likely to be used.Yuji's and Todo's wincons are just beating up 2 kids with thier AP advantage, catching any of them off guard with Divergent Fist and breaking a bone, or Black Flashing them out of reality
Maybe I just remember things differently, I just don’t want this marked as a stomp, but I do believe Gon and Killua win. Gon himself is also a genius and could likely take Yuji in a 1v1 with Jajanken. Yuji did show a good level of skill against Yuta though, dodging a slice using a car and pocketing that knife to try and get an upper hand.I mean its still based off strength not overall skill iirc. But Todo isn't a genius, and his showings don't show that. The guy is just a ct and simple domain user after all.
When did Choso say that? And it doesn't seem like a whim, seems he was confident in it already. Also Choso is an inexperienced fighter and still gave Yuji this much of a challenge. Since this is Post Shibuya I know he's much better now but did he really show more skill post shibuya? Combat skill, not curse energy control skill.
Yeah its versatile but its not hard to counter when you're a genius like Gon and Killua. Mahito brings up how he'll guess it right and later on we can see Mahito blocks against it. If Mahito could learn how to defend against it and guess right it isn't gonna do a lot here.You guys really forget how versatile Boogie Woogie is and how well both Itadori and Todo work together. Boogie Woogie's ability to throw their opponent's timing off through the constant switching,
This all works against people who aren't geniuses in combat though, like Hanami. Gon and Killua have incredible predictive skills and just won't be getting caught off guard so easily like that.Todo not having to activate his technique whenever he claps his hands, Todo being able to activate the technique if he claps someone else's hands, it wouldn't take much for Todo and Itadori to pummel Killua and Gon.
PC gets snatched by Killua or Gon. BF is only gonna be a factor for Yuji since he can hit it effortlessly but he wasn't hitting it at all Post Shibuya so idk how believable that is, likely in a situation where he really must focus he could but otherwise I don't see that being a common occurance in this fight, let alone the highest number was like 4 in a day.One Black Flash or hit with Playful Cloud would knock them out.
Gets blocked or destroyed, or Killua and Gon realize he can swap with objects and become more aware of him throwing anything. Their intelligence will let them counter this really.Todo can also imbue items with cursed energy and throw them, giving him greater range and ability to throw objects.
That just leaves Todo to fight both Killua and Gon then? He gets destroyed if that happens.Todo could just throw a rock imbued with cursed energy a large distance to give Itadori time to recover and make it harder for Gon and Killua to find Itadori.
These tactics sound like they're gonna take more time than they have to counter properly though. Yuji would need to be like right there too or else he's gotta run towards him and potentially just get blocked by Gon or Killua so I don't think that's the best plan.Assuming Todo gets electrocuted, Itadori could do the same thing, imbue an object with cursed energy and throw it far away, then clap Todo's hand to switch them out.
Do you not think Killua and Gon have teamwork themselves? Them being the smarter duo also, I just don't see how they're gonna overcome that here.Killua's fighting skill and Nen abilities aren't enough to overcome superior AP, teamwork, and ability to surprise through the Boogie Woogie.
After images would not have nen, Todo can’t switch with themIf Killua spams the ability Todo will only change location with the afterimages and illusions while Killua can attack freely.
Rhythm Echo even
You can't argue that Hanami isn't a genius or experienced in combat. The mere fact that he could fight in hand-to-hand combat against Todo and Itadori shows his skills, and he eventually adapted to Itadori and Todo. The instances you provided with Mahito weren't really examples of how accurately Mahito adapted. He singed Todo's shirt for one instance, but he couldn't really predict every instance of Boogie Woogie even with his high intellect and adaptability. The fact that he separated Todo from Itadori and wanted to eliminate Todo from the fight goes to show even someone as smart and experienced as Mahito saw it as burdensome. And Mahito had far more maneuverability and dexterity with his cursed technique than Killua and Gon do, not to mention he could tank Todo's blows since they couldn't affect his soul the way Itadori could. If they could, Mahito would've been taken out more quickly and had less time to adapt. So Killua and Gon would have a far more difficult time with lower AP.Yeah its versatile but its not hard to counter when you're a genius like Gon and Killua. Mahito brings up how he'll guess it right and later on we can see Mahito blocks against it. If Mahito could learn how to defend against it and guess right it isn't gonna do a lot here.
This all works against people who aren't geniuses in combat though, like Hanami. Gon and Killua have incredible predictive skills and just won't be getting caught off guard so easily like that.
How do you know PC gets snatched by Gon or Killua? And what's stopping Todo from just swapping it back? And how would they know how powerful PC is? The answer is they don't. And if Todo sees how skilled and experienced Gon and Todo are, then he'll undoubtedly resort to it quickly. A few hits from Playful Cloud, especially with the swapping ability, would knock Gon and Killua out.PC gets snatched by Killua or Gon. BF is only gonna be a factor for Yuji since he can hit it effortlessly but he wasn't hitting it at all Post Shibuya so idk how believable that is, likely in a situation where he really must focus he could but otherwise I don't see that being a common occurance in this fight, let alone the highest number was like 4 in a day.
Even being distracted and focusing on destroying the other objects will give Todo and Itadori an opening to land an attack. We see repeatedly how a misassumption in Boogie Woogie can have devastating consequences in a fight with these two. Mahito was fooled by Boogie Woogie's activation and it led to him getting defeated by Itadori's black flash. And Gon and Killua wouldn't be able to know all the ins-and-outs of Boogie Woogie from their firstGets blocked or destroyed, or Killua and Gon realize he can swap with objects and become more aware of him throwing anything. Their intelligence will let them counter this really.
No, he doesn't. The guy is incredibly smart and experienced in combat, who could defeat five first-grade cursed spirits by himself without his special technique, who can formulate weaknesses to techniques in a fraction of a second, and can fight on even footing against an expert martial artist like Itadori. He can hold his own at least long enough for Itadori to recover, and he'll be more careful to avoid being electrocuted.That just leaves Todo to fight both Killua and Gon then? He gets destroyed if that happens.
Those tactics don't really take much time at all. Todo threw a hanger imbued with his cursed energy in his second fight with Mahito. Doesn't seem all that hard for Todo to do the same with nearby surroundings. And Itadori wouldn't have to be "right there", his position doesn't really matter.These tactics sound like they're gonna take more time than they have to counter properly though. Yuji would need to be like right there too or else he's gotta run towards him and potentially just get blocked by Gon or Killua so I don't think that's the best plan.
I believe Itadori and Todo's teamwork is more impressive because they were able to beat a substantially more powerful opponent with higher AP, cursed technique, and skill and forced them to nearly use their domain. Most Gon and Killua did as a team was fighting against Rammot, which while impressive doesn't seem as impressive as with Hanami.Do you not think Killua and Gon have teamwork themselves? Them being the smarter duo also, I just don't see how they're gonna overcome that here.
Cuz I realize Chimera Ant Arc Gon and Killua would make this match a stomp, especially if verses aren't equalized.......which is what I would've said if the OP didn't switch the duo to Greed Island.. the gap is 6x without Ryu and Ko. Gon and Killua are going to be on the defensive the whole match and will either lose due to exhaustion due to stamina, damage or Nen exhaustion OR just KO. They won't have time to adapt to Boogie Woogie before they can plan a counterattack.
Why was it switched to Greed Island? Kanmuru is something Killua needs to tap into once he's charged himself with enough electricity, something he'll struggle to do when he's getting barraged by Yuji and Todo with Boogie Woogie.
so now we just give them a 6x AP disadvantage to where they pretty much get an instant broken limb from a single strikeCuz I realize Chimera Ant Arc Gon and Killua would make this match a stomp, especially if verses aren't equalized.
Well they still have amps that can help alleviate the AP disadvantage, and as people have already mentioned, Killua has Rhythm Echoes that would make it more difficult to track their movements.so now we just give them a 6x AP disadvantage to where they pretty much get an instant broken limb from a single strike
ok but they don't know how strong they are initially so when Gon goes for H2H he just gets gored or knocked outWell they still have amps that can help alleviate the AP disadvantage, and as people have already mentioned, Killua has Rhythm Echoes that would make it more difficult to track their movements.
What're you talking about "don't know how strong they are"? Killua's very good at detecting people's strength, and this prenatural perception only increased when he learned about nen. He'll obviously tell Gon to activate Nen at the start of the battle.ok but they don't know how strong they are initially so when Gon goes for H2H he just gets gored or knocked out
Says who? It was able to trick an experienced nen user, so either they contain some kind of nen inside or Boogie Woogie just wouldn't activate since he can't figure out who the real Killua is and Killua assassinates them.After images would not have nen, Todo can’t switch with them
That just isn't a genius feat though? Fighting off two gifted people doesn't suddenly turn him into a genius unless he showed superior skill to them and also won at the very least.You can't argue that Hanami isn't a genius or experienced in combat. The mere fact that he could fight in hand-to-hand combat against Todo and Itadori shows his skills, and he eventually adapted to Itadori and Todo.
Separating fighters is a very basic tactic in combat when up against multiple targets, this is something Mahito showed early in the series lmao.The instances you provided with Mahito weren't really examples of how accurately Mahito adapted. He singed Todo's shirt for one instance, but he couldn't really predict every instance of Boogie Woogie even with his high intellect and adaptability. The fact that he separated Todo from Itadori and wanted to eliminate Todo from the fight goes to show even someone as smart and experienced as Mahito saw it as burdensome. And Mahito had far more maneuverability and dexterity with his cursed technique than Killua and Gon do, not to mention he could tank Todo's blows since they couldn't affect his soul the way Itadori could. If they could, Mahito would've been taken out more quickly and had less time to adapt. So Killua and Gon would have a far more difficult time with lower AP.
Greater LS on page. And so what he can swap it back? That just leaves him open given he has to clap and he has to swap it with something so how is that gonna be a good tactic for him? That just sounds like a spot Todo doesn't wanna be in against two geniuses.How do you know PC gets snatched by Gon or Killua? And what's stopping Todo from just swapping it back? And how would they know how powerful PC is? The answer is they don't. And if Todo sees how skilled and experienced Gon and Todo are, then he'll undoubtedly resort to it quickly. A few hits from Playful Cloud, especially with the swapping ability, would knock Gon and Killua out.
Devastating consequences against fighters who aren't geniuses isn't a feat in the slightest.Even being distracted and focusing on destroying the other objects will give Todo and Itadori an opening to land an attack. We see repeatedly how a misassumption in Boogie Woogie can have devastating consequences in a fight with these two. Mahito was fooled by Boogie Woogie's activation and it led to him getting defeated by Itadori's black flash. And Gon and Killua wouldn't be able to know all the ins-and-outs of Boogie Woogie from their first
How can you bring up a feat that we don't see, and is a feat that first grades should be able to perform, I mean hell first grade curses are literally below First Grade sorcerers canonically, of course Todo did that, he's supposed to be fighting special grades.No, he doesn't. The guy is incredibly smart and experienced in combat, who could defeat five first-grade cursed spirits by himself without his special technique, who can formulate weaknesses to techniques in a fraction of a second, and can fight on even footing against an expert martial artist like Itadori. He can hold his own at least long enough for Itadori to recover, and he'll be more careful to avoid being electrocuted.
I don't remember a hanger, do you mean the rock he threw? And since you put the location in the forest, he's gonna have to pick something up in the midst of combatting them both or just use PC to switch, either way both would be disadvantageous when he's facing both at the same time. And yeah Yuji would have to be close or else he's gotta run back after being teleported and in that time Killua or Gon could stop him making the fight a 1v1 instead, which Yuji just gets crushed if its either of them. You making Todo's ct the main factor here it seems but we see against someone like Mahito, just a couple of interactions and you can begin to predict how Todo will teleport things. And again, Gon and Killua having superior intelligence just will not let this be a big factor in the fight.Those tactics don't really take much time at all. Todo threw a hanger imbued with his cursed energy in his second fight with Mahito. Doesn't seem all that hard for Todo to do the same with nearby surroundings. And Itadori wouldn't have to be "right there", his position doesn't really matter.
If they did that, then that doesn't sound like they were weaker, or less skilled, sounds like they were as skillful as Hanami and they really did good in that fight due to Todo's boogie woogie being able to swap Hanami and Yuji on top of them being skilled themselves. In this fight Todo will be able to swap only himself, Yuji and objects he imbues with ce so the main thing that made their fights so impressive won't be an option here, they won't be able to disorient Gon and Killua like they did Hanami and Mahito.I believe Itadori and Todo's teamwork is more impressive because they were able to beat a substantially more powerful opponent with higher AP, cursed technique, and skill and forced them to nearly use their domain. Most Gon and Killua did as a team was fighting against Rammot, which while impressive doesn't seem as impressive as with Hanami.
Todo and Yuji don't really adapt though, especially not Todo. And idk how this is even an argument, Gon and Killua are already smarter than them, any adapting they do will be far worse than Yuji adapting, if he even can against Killua.I don't disagree that Gon and Killua would adapt to the Boogie Woogie, it's just by the time they do, they'd have already taken too much damage, or Itadori and Todo would've also adapted to their fighting style as well.
chojuro's stone hand was recalced, it is now High 8-C (3.45 Tons).I mentioned this in the Yuji vs Killua thread but imma repost it here:
Yuji and Todo can match and damage Hanami, who is casually above 115 tons, and as a Special Grade Curse, they should also be above the likes of Chojuro Zenin, a Grade 1 Sorcerer, who is 260 tons.
an afterimage that isn’t actually there can’t have nen4Says who? It was able to trick an experienced nen user, so either they contain some kind of nen inside or Boogie Woogie just wouldn't activate since he can't figure out who the real Killua is and Killua assassinates them.
Yea, I'm a bit confused about this. So if that's the case, then what's the main justification for 8-A? Cuz as far as I see, the other other feats are 8-B performed by Mahito. There's another 8-A, but that feat was a Uzumaki performed by Kenjaku, a special-grade sorcerer, and a supercharged attack that nobody scales to. So does that mean that all the 8-A's will be downgraded to 8-B+? Cuz if that's the case, we should probably put this match on hold.chojuro's stone hand was recalced, it is now High 8-C (3.45 Tons).
Again it was able to trick other experienced nen users without using hatsu, so they either have the illusion of nen or does contain nen in some way.an afterimage that isn’t actually there can’t have nen4
Boogie Woogie not working wouldn’t automatically mean that Killua assassinate him, if anything he would just keep on clapping until it does work
You're acting like Gon has ultra instinctThey just not catching them off guard and I said this already but DF is not something Yuji commonly uses in combat Post Shibuya or even during Shibuya so that isn't something likely to be used.
He is also an outstanding talent in the field of Nen, being able to distribute it with a margin of error lower than 1%, which requires the most skill and experience. He is normally regarded as more talented than Gon when it comes to Nen control.
On Killua's page.
Besides Killua, Gon is also more skillful than Yuji and Todo here alone, I'm starting to doubt these guys would even land a hit on Gon considering his skill to read people who are faster and smarter than him, his acrobats would also help him avoid hits. Gon has reactive power too, he may end up just getting on their level of power or at least to the point they won't one shot.
He used it twice in Shibuya. Name the times he used it after that.He used it against both Choso and Evolved Mahito, characters Yuji had a lot of trouble against. There's no reason to assume he wouldn't use it here
you're right, He never used it after thatHe used it twice in Shibuya. Name the times he used it after that.
Killua beheads people and you need your head for RCT to work so that puts a stop to that.you're right, He never used it after that
Issue is, you need to understand the context of why he used in in the first place
He used it against Choso in order to catch him off guard and employed it into his strategy, even after landing the blow, by feinting that he can't use his left hand.
He used it against Mahito in order to catch him off guard and break through his armor's weak point
He couldn't use it againt Yuta cuz he got clapped far too easily for that to happen
He didn't use it against Panda since they were play fighting for the spectators
He didn't use it against Hakari since the fight was stopped not very long after it started due to the misunderstanding being cleared up
He didn't use it against Haba or Hanyu cuz they were fodder
He didn't use it against Higuruma since the first half of the fight was a trial, and during the second half his cursed energy was stripped from him
He didn't use it agains Sukuna since no one could really do anything to Sukuna in the first place. Maki, who is far superior to Yuji at this point in the story, wasn't able to land any significant blows against him
He never really gets a major battle besides his match against Higuruma, and even then he literally lost his cursed energy. Gon and Killua are extremely threatening fighters that Yuji needs to strategize for, since they surpass his stats with Ryo and Ko and are generally better combatants. There's no reason to assume Yuji won't go for it just because he hasn't used it very often in the Culling Games, as there would be no significance for him to relearn it at all in Shibuya if he was just going to ignore it for the rest of his life.
Not to mention, as I mentioned before, if Yuji or Todo land Black Flash it's basically over at that point since that straight up 1 shots/tears limbs off of people on their level, and Yuji in particular is skilled enough to land 4 in a row, and he's gotten much more skilled since then.
Not to mention once again, if you want to use current Yuji (who hasn't received any better stats feats as far as I'm aware), Yuji learns Reverse Curse Technique meaning he can just solo the 2 of them due to essentially infinite regeneration
Killua hasn't beheaded a single human throughout the series, with the only example I could find being his fight with the Chimera Ants.Killua beheads people and you need your head for RCT to work so that puts a stop to that.