Neptune vs Goku: Local Goddess Fight's a Monkey Alien

[TheKingStrategist13]

So, after some recent changes to the Neptunia Series from the SVS CRT, it has come to my attention that the condition's of this match are likely different than they were the last time this was discussed- As such, the question must be asked: Who win's between these two powerful, nigh unrivaled fighter's?

Speed Equal
SBA
NEXT Form is Restricted for Neptune
If anything else about this match turns out to be noticeably unfair, we can alter the condition's of the match if applicable (Though Ideally this is only if it turns out a bit stomp-ish).

Top Nep:
It Isn't Over Yet!:
They sit down and have some Pudding:

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

So with what start nep?

 

[thetechmaster36]

So per SBA, Goku would be in his DBS:SH key using Super Saiyan Blue since it's his strongest iteration currently on the profile (I'd assume so anyways).

Immediately off the bat, he wouldn't be able to see Neptune because of the White Orb making it so he can't see her unless she lands a hit on him, and he also can't sense her because Share Energy can't be sensed by anyone that isn't a Goddess (I don't think verse equalization would work here because Ki and Share Energy are pretty different in terms of functionality)

Neptune also has a >2x speed amp in the form of the Dash Sneakers, meaning she can easily close the gap and throw attacks at Goku

Goku is 6 universes 2-C whereas Neptune is 2 universes 2-C, so she can't harm him whatsoever, but with her Game Discs, she can inflict non-biological-based Poison and Paralysis (as these effects are shown to work on robots, inorganic entities, data entities, 2D creatures, and ghosts) as well as Apathy, which is a potent power null that will essentially reduce Goku to hand-to-hand as Apathy is able to null the ability to use energy beams and attacks. Not that it matters since Paralysis will make it so he can't do anything in the first place.

Additionally, Goku has no way of bypassing Neptune's Type 8 Immortality, which will prevent her from being killed, and he can't bypass her passive Healing either, which will basically restore her to full health incredibly fast from any attack she'd receive from Goku, meaning he has no way of realistically putting Neptune down. Even if he could, OP didn't restrict Nep's Type 4, so she'd be resurrected by the Share Energy regardless.

With all of these factors combined, I'm going to vote Neptune. I don't think it's a stomp, though, since he can potentially incapacitate Neptune and knock her out, rendering her unable to battle. It's possible he could also whip out the Mafuba if he sees that it's essentially impossible for him to take Neptune down the ol' fashioned way. But considering the factors above, on top of Goku using the Mafuba being EXTREMELY out-of-character for him (in-character per SBA), the chances of him putting Neptune in an incapacitated state is pretty unlikely.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Bump

 

[Fezzih_007]

So per SBA, Goku would be in his DBS:SH key using Super Saiyan Blue since it's his strongest iteration currently on the profile (I'd assume so anyways).

Well actually, he would start in base form, not Super sayian Blue, i think.

 

[thetechmaster36]

SBA's kinda vague with that; it says strongest key, but never clarifies on if that key has a "higher" rating or not in it

But I mean, even if Goku wasn't in Blue and instead started in Base, my reasons wouldn't really change

 

[Fezzih_007]

Yeah, the only change would be Goku would speedblitz when he go Super Sayian Blue.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Yes, but he wouldn't get the chance to considering Neptune:

1. Can't be seen (White Orb)
2. Can't be sensed (Share Energy sensing is only available to Goddesses), and
3. Inflicts him with Paralysis that will prevent him from being able to do anything, and even if he could transform in the middle of the Paralysis (which he can't, as entities that can transform in the Neptunia series can't under Paralysis), it wouldn't get rid of the effect, meaning he'll be unable to move and slowly brought to death by the Poison effect

 

[thetechmaster36]

Bump ig lol

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Bump?

 

[Mickey1940]

If Neptune doesn't blast him with CC off the bat then Goku does anything and she gets knocked out.

Even if this happens, Neptune doesn't have any other offensive hax that ignore durability so Goku can literally just sit there until she runs out of discs, then try to kill her in return, before realizing it doesn't work, then just knock her out or Mafuba

Goku wins imo

 

[thetechmaster36]

Even if this happens, Neptune doesn't have any other offensive hax that ignore durability so Goku can literally just sit there until she runs out of discs

That doesn't work because Neptune's Game Disc is not a projectile, it's a piece of equipment that augments her abilities in battle. She can't run out of discs because they're not a consumable item.

Besides that, Goku won't even be able to do anything because he'll be paralyzed and inflicted with power null that'll reduce him to melees (which is kind of redundant considering the paralysis won't even let him so much as move) whilst being whittled down and eventually killed by the poison. And no, this isn't standard poison or something like the Super God Water (Ultra Divine Water), this is poison that works on numerous non-biological beings such as robots, data creatures, 2D entities (aka the visual novel things), and ghosts, so Goku won't be resisting it any time soon.

Yeah, sure, Goku lands a hit and it's essentially over from there - he either incapacitates her or uses the Mafuba, though I find the latter to be very unlikely considering he never thinks to use it in an actual fight, let alone consider the idea of using it - but again, how is he going to do that when it's the same win-con setup for Neptune, i.e. land a hit and it's over, except she has a higher chance to do so thanks to factors that Goku doesn't have a way around from the get-go?

• Goku can't visually spot her because of the White Orb, essentially making Neptune invisible to him until she lands an attack.
• Goku can't sense her because there's no verse equalization between Ki and Share Energy; both are quite different fundamentally.
• And lastly, Neptune has an immediate >2x speed amp because of the Dash Sneakers, meaning that Goku wouldn't be able to avoid Neptune's attacks easily. Not to mention the fact that she can just as easily attack him from a farther distance with her AOE and ranged attacks, some of them spanning over a kilometer in size and happen right in his face.

9 times out of 10, Neptune's winning this one. The only way Goku would be able to win is if he is able to predict where Neptune is and land a hit on her, which would - if not "kill" her - knock her out and render her unable to fight back. But the chances of that happening considering Neptune's immediate advantages are pretty slim.

 

[Fezzih_007]

• Goku can't visually spot her because of the White Orb, essentially making Neptune invisible to him until she lands an attack.
• Goku can't sense her because there's no verse equalization between Ki and Share Energy; both are quite different fundamentally.

Verse equalization covers that, yeah.

So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

And lastly, Neptune has an immediate >2x speed amp because of the Dash Sneakers, meaning that Goku wouldn't be able to avoid Neptune's attacks easily.

I mean, If Goku transforma, he gonna speedblitz her hard because his transformation give way more boost in speed. The number

Not to mention the fact that she can just as easily attack him from a farther distance with her AOE and ranged attacks, some of them spanning over a kilometer in size and happen right in his face.

Goku can easily deal with that trought.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Verse equalization covers that, yeah.

I am aware that energies are "equalized" by default. But there are still differences in the way they function to make it a non-factor in this regard (for example, Ki exists within a majority of living entities in the Dragon Ball universe, but Share Energy is only something that certain individuals in the Neptunia universe can even acquire, let alone use). We can't assume that Goku would be able to sense Neptune's Share Energy when the way that sensing these energies works in the two franchises is different in execution.

To put it into perspective:

• In Dragon Ball, Ki sensing is an ability that anyone is able to learn so long as they hone the ability to. It's not something that's exclusive to certain beings, or races, or deities, or anything of the sort - hell, characters like Vegeta and Frieza were able to pick it up along the way. They can do it if they try and learn how to.
• In Neptunia, if you're not a Goddess, you're shit-outta-luck because it's been demonstrated that only Goddesses are able to sense Share Energy.

I mean, If Goku transforma, he gonna speedblitz her hard because his transformation give way more boost in speed.

He's not going to immediately transform against an enemy that he can't see or sense. Even if that was on the table, the kind of character that Goku is wouldn't really let him; he wants to test his opponents' strength, and we've seen a few times even with extreme powerhouses like Jiren and Broly (which he knew he was nearly or completely outclassed both times, by the way) that he will wait to transform into any form instead of going into said forms right off the bat.

Goku can easily deal with that trought.

Some of them, maybe. But >1km-wide AOE that occurs essentially right on top of him? I fail to see how he's going to avoid that. He won't even see it coming because it happens nearly-instantaneously.

 

[Robo432343]

neptune gigastomps

 

[Fezzih_007]

I am aware that energies are "equalized" by default. But there are still differences in the way they function to make it a non-factor in this regard (for example, Ki exists within a majority of living entities in the Dragon Ball universe, but Share Energy is only something that certain individuals in the Neptunia universe can even acquire, let alone use). We can't assume that Goku would be able to sense Neptune's Share Energy when the way that sensing these energies works in the two franchises is different in execution.

To put it into perspective:

• In Dragon Ball, Ki sensing is an ability that anyone is able to learn so long as they hone the ability to. It's not something that's exclusive to certain beings, or races, or deities, or anything of the sort - hell, characters like Vegeta and Frieza were able to pick it up along the way. They can do it if they try and learn how to.
• In Neptunia, if you're not a Goddess, you're shit-outta-luck because it's been demonstrated that only Goddesses are able to sense Share Energy.

Well, i could say the same thing about God Ki, that Goku have, since is also a energy that not everyone have, and allows the character to sense people that also have God Ki, while that who don't can't sense them.

So we could make a argument that he could sense her atleast. Not that It matters much, since Goku dealing with with invisible is not rare to him.

He's not going to immediately transform against an enemy that he can't see or sense.

Why? He can't sense or see the opponent, why don't see why he would't.

Even if that was on the table, the kind of character that Goku is wouldn't really let him; he wants to test his opponents' strength,

Ins't said character way weaker than him trought? Like, If Neptunia is just 2 universes, he way stronger than her, i don't see why Goku would be messing around with a opponent way weaker than him, he probally would knock her out the moment the battle start.

and we've seen a few times even with extreme powerhouses like Jiren and Broly (which he knew he was nearly or completely outclassed both times, by the way) that he will wait to transform into any form instead of going into said forms right off the bat.

But like, said characters are stronger than him, so It makes sense, unlike Neptunia.

Some of them, maybe. But >1km-wide AOE that occurs essentially right on top of him? I fail to see how he's going to avoid that. He won't even see it coming because it happens nearly-instantaneously.

Well, he can use his Analytical prediction or teleports to deal this attacks. His AP Works on Hit, the attack who pratically spams on you, so maybe.

 

[Mickey1940]

That doesn't work because Neptune's Game Disc is not a projectile, it's a piece of equipment that augments her abilities in battle. She can't run out of discs because they're not a consumable item.

Besides that, Goku won't even be able to do anything because he'll be paralyzed and inflicted with power null that'll reduce him to melees (which is kind of redundant considering the paralysis won't even let him so much as move) whilst being whittled down and eventually killed by the poison. And no, this isn't standard poison or something like the Super God Water (Ultra Divine Water), this is poison that works on numerous non-biological beings such as robots, data creatures, 2D entities (aka the visual novel things), and ghosts, so Goku won't be resisting it any time soon.

Yeah, sure, Goku lands a hit and it's essentially over from there - he either incapacitates her or uses the Mafuba, though I find the latter to be very unlikely considering he never thinks to use it in an actual fight, let alone consider the idea of using it - but again, how is he going to do that when it's the same win-con setup for Neptune, i.e. land a hit and it's over, except she has a higher chance to do so thanks to factors that Goku doesn't have a way around from the get-go?

• Goku can't visually spot her because of the White Orb, essentially making Neptune invisible to him until she lands an attack.
• Goku can't sense her because there's no verse equalization between Ki and Share Energy; both are quite different fundamentally.
• And lastly, Neptune has an immediate >2x speed amp because of the Dash Sneakers, meaning that Goku wouldn't be able to avoid Neptune's attacks easily. Not to mention the fact that she can just as easily attack him from a farther distance with her AOE and ranged attacks, some of them spanning over a kilometer in size and happen right in his face.

9 times out of 10, Neptune's winning this one. The only way Goku would be able to win is if he is able to predict where Neptune is and land a hit on her, which would - if not "kill" her - knock her out and render her unable to fight back. But the chances of that happening considering Neptune's immediate advantages are pretty slim.

1. oh they're equippables? I stand corrected then

2. The poison might be a problem if she spams it. Does she?

3. Does Neptune just blink in and out of existence with the White Orb? I can't get any evidence that the object exists besides what I can get from her profile, which is very little. Can you provide a bit more info on that?

4. Does Goku die from 1 hit due to the aformentioned CC? And can Goku not respond fast enough to hit her with anything and knock her out/incapacitate her, or simply Kiai and knock her out?

5. Why is a kilometer sized projectile relevant to a character who can bust universes by farting

 

[thetechmaster36]

Well, i could say the same thing about God Ki, that Goku have, since is also a energy that not everyone have, and allows the character to sense people that also have God Ki, while that who don't can't sense them.

This is a bit more palatable, though I'm tentatively calling it so, only because I'm more or less curious; wasn't Piccolo able to sense Goku's God Ki despite not possessing God Ki himself? I believe this was the case during Dragon Ball Super: Broly, where Piccolo telepathically communicates with SSG Goku after he got a beatdown from Broly. I could be misinterpreting though, it's been a while since I've watched the movie proper.

I'm willing to accept that Goku could sense her if the "limited use" aspect of God Ki and Share Energy were to be equalized. However, I'm hesitant in doing so because of the above question.

Not that It matters much, since Goku dealing with with invisible is not rare to him.

But it is? I don't recall Goku fighting actual invisible people before, the furthest that could go would potentially be someone significantly faster than him to the point where he can't efficiently spot them or someone with the ability to hide from him in an alternate manner, like lowering their Ki or Hit hiding in a pocket dimension. The most I can remember of true invisibility was from the original Dragon Ball with See-Through the Invisible Man, but Goku wasn't participating in the fight, he was just a spectator.

Beyond that, there's the possible problem of him not being able to sense her. If he can't sense her, he will essentially have zero clue where she is.

Why? He can't sense or see the opponent, why don't see why he would't.

Because if he can't see or sense the opponent, he doesn't even know they're there in the first place. Why would he transform against an enemy who he doesn't even know is existent or present?

Ins't said character way weaker than him trought?

Again, there's the possibility that he doesn't know she's weaker than him because Share Energy go brrr.

Well, he can use his Analytical prediction or teleports to deal this attacks.

Analytical Prediction ain't gonna save him from huge attacks that happen in a split-second right in his face. Teleportation maybe.

However, ranged attacks and AOE aren't necessarily for her to land a hit.

The poison might be a problem if she spams it. Does she?

The Poison is laced into every attack in her arsenal, regardless of what it is; that's what the Disc does. If she uses an attack, it inflicts poison, simple as that. Same case with the Paralysis and Apathy (power null), every attack can inflict it.

Does Neptune just blink in and out of existence with the White Orb?

No, she remains invisible to enemies until she lands a hit on them, at which point she is entirely visible to them.

Does Goku die from 1 hit due to the aformentioned CC? And can Goku not respond fast enough to hit her with anything and knock her out/incapacitate her, or simply Kiai and knock her out?

Goku doesn't die in one hit, however, he will be hindered so significantly by the Paralysis that he'll be prevented from even doing anything to begin with, and he'll eventually die from the Poison constantly draining away his life. I don't believe Kiai will work in this instance considering he can't move a muscle under Paralysis.

Why is a kilometer sized projectile relevant to a character who can bust universes by farting

Because it's literally happening right in his face with no warning and in a split-second.

But, like I said above already, AOE stuff isn't a necessity to land a hit on Goku. Especially because that immediate >2x speed amp will allow her to swiftly move in and attack. Quite easily, I might add; her swords are huge, and some of them have effects that will make it easier for her to land hits, like Laevateinn shining brighter than the sun, meaning Goku can very easily be blinded by it.

This is also not accounting for the fact that she has a passive effect through "Weaken Enemies" that will slightly neuter Goku in most forms of stats, including speed, as Weaken Enemies affects an enemy's agility.

Even accepting the scenario where Goku can sense Neptune, her having that speed amp and hindering Goku's own speed (since speed is equalized) will make it much easier for her to land a hit on Goku than it would for Goku to land a hit on her.

I still believe Neptune takes this more often than not.

 

[Fezzih_007]

This is a bit more palatable, though I'm tentatively calling it so, only because I'm more or less curious; wasn't Piccolo able to sense Goku's God Ki despite not possessing God Ki himself?

Yeah, after some training, the characters are able to bypass that restriction of God Ki.
Freeza, Hit and Picollo can sense they God Ki.
The answer would be that they Ki sense are so good, they can sense things not normal people can.
So is Fine to equalize. And again, the verse equalization mentions that they would be equalized, so a proper fight can happen.
A character not being able to see another character doing to in-verse mechanics sounds improper.

But it is?

I meant more like, he can deal with people attacking him with Invisible attacks. Like Hit attacks.
If he can sense her, he can most definitely deal with that.

Because if he can't see or sense the opponent, he doesn't even know they're there in the first place. Why would he transform against an enemy who he doesn't even know is existent or present?

Normally, yeah, but because of SBA, Goku already knows that a opponent is there, even if he can't techinically see or sense them. So be gonna expecting a attack, and act accordily.

Analytical Prediction ain't gonna save him from huge attacks that happen in a split-second right in his face.

Why? I he need is to sense where her gonna do a attack, and dodge from the location. Or put a ki barrier.

Goku doesn't die in one hit, however, he will be hindered so significantly by the Paralysis that he'll be prevented from even doing anything to begin with

I din't ask before, but Goku resist Paralysis.
Why working

as these effects are shown to work on robots, inorganic entities, data entities, 2D creatures, and ghosts

Counter Goku resistance? Unless is layered, i dont

This is also not accounting for the fact that she has a passive effect through "Weaken Enemies" that will slightly neuter Goku in most forms of stats, including speed, as Weaken Enemies affects an enemy's agility.

Considering Goku super sayian 1 givea him a boost of 50x, unless this effect greatly decrease his speed, that not going to be a problem. And his others forma gives him a even bigger boost.

And If Neptunia does poison Goku, he would immediality go Super Sayian fast, because he is dying, and speedblitz her.

I still believe Neptune takes this more often than not.

I actually not sure, because this is not Inconclusive, but i not sure If Goku or Nep have better wincons.

With Goku going Super Sayian and speedblitz her, or Nep slowing killing him.

 

[Mickey1940]

The Poison is laced into every attack in her arsenal, regardless of what it is; that's what the Disc does. If she uses an attack, it inflicts poison, simple as that. Same case with the Paralysis and Apathy (power null), every attack can inflict it.

No, she remains invisible to enemies until she lands a hit on them, at which point she is entirely visible to them.

Goku doesn't die in one hit, however, he will be hindered so significantly by the Paralysis that he'll be prevented from even doing anything to begin with, and he'll eventually die from the Poison constantly draining away his life. I don't believe Kiai will work in this instance considering he can't move a muscle under Paralysis.

Because it's literally happening right in his face with no warning and in a split-second.

But, like I said above already, AOE stuff isn't a necessity to land a hit on Goku. Especially because that immediate >2x speed amp will allow her to swiftly move in and attack. Quite easily, I might add; her swords are huge, and some of them have effects that will make it easier for her to land hits, like Laevateinn shining brighter than the sun, meaning Goku can very easily be blinded by it.

This is also not accounting for the fact that she has a passive effect through "Weaken Enemies" that will slightly neuter Goku in most forms of stats, including speed, as Weaken Enemies affects an enemy's agility.

Even accepting the scenario where Goku can sense Neptune, her having that speed amp and hindering Goku's own speed (since speed is equalized) will make it much easier for her to land a hit on Goku than it would for Goku to land a hit on her.

I still believe Neptune takes this more often than not.

1. ahhh ok that's a big oof. How long does it last?

2. Oh so it's basically a free first hit, but that first hit is also a para + stun so it's tuff

3. Fair point

4. Is that in character? She nukes cities out of her ass against everyone?

5. I don't think the x2 speed amp is relevant at all for 2 reasons. 1, White Orb gives her a free first hit anyways so the speed isn't needed. 2, if Goku transforms then that advantage is out the window anyways

6. I don't think Weaken can help her much if Goku transforms, but Para and Poison should still work

7. If Goku can sense her, then it's gg cuz Goku recognizes that Neptune is fodder, ITs and neck chops her. Her speed amp isn't really enough to dodge it, especially if she can't see it coming.


I'm holding onto my vote for now until someone can confirm if Goku can sense her or not
If he can then neck chop gg
If he can't then Neptune para + poison GG, unless it's not a permanent debuff

 

[thetechmaster36]

I din't ask before, but Goku resist Paralysis.
Why working

Because Goku doesn't resist Paralysis which works on entities that don't have any nerves to begin with. Again, like the aforementioned data creatures, 2D entities, or ghosts - things that don't have the same biology as humans do (in fact, they don't have any biology lol). He resists paralysis, yes, but Neptune's paralysis is more potent because it can affect things that don't have nerves whatsoever. Unless Goku has shown resistance to this kind of paralysis (which he hasn't as far as I remember), he will be getting affected by it.

And If Neptunia does poison Goku, he would immediality go Super Sayian fast, because he is dying, and speedblitz her.

Besides the fact that these effects are able to be stacked on top of each other, he's not going to be given the chance to transform under Paralysis. I've already said it before, but it's shown that transforming into a different form under Paralysis does not work - characters inflicted with Paralysis are unable to do anything under any circumstances.

Even assuming he could transform when under Paralysis, the effect isn't going to magically go away because of it.

ahhh ok that's a big oof. How long does it last?

In-game, it lasts for multiple turns. I don't know how it would logically apply here, but eh lol

Is that in character? She nukes cities out of her ass against everyone?

Not. . .necessarily? She seems to do it mostly within Sharing Fields, considering they're pocket dimensions with barely any possible harm to the surroundings the speak of, but other than that, not really. I'm willing to concede on that point though

1, White Orb gives her a free first hit anyways so the speed isn't needed.

The speed is needed, because assuming Goku is able to sense her and know where she's coming from, she needs to tag him before he can retreat or dodge or anything of the sort.

2, if Goku transforms then that advantage is out the window anyways

This is assuming Goku is immediately going to transform if Neptune approaches him. From recollection, he has hardly ever, if at all, been shown to do that - transform when an opponent is approaching him - so that's a moot point.

7. If Goku can sense her, then it's gg cuz Goku recognizes that Neptune is fodder, ITs and neck chops her. Her speed amp isn't really enough to dodge it, especially if she can't see it coming.

This is a fair point, though it's still a 50/50 given he'd have to have the ability to sense her to do that.

Assuming he can sense her, his chances of winning are significantly higher. If he can't, Neptune most likely just wins outright.

 

[Mickey1940]

In-game, it lasts for multiple turns. I don't know how it would logically apply here, but eh lol

Not. . .necessarily? She seems to do it mostly within Sharing Fields, considering they're pocket dimensions with barely any possible harm to the surroundings the speak of, but other than that, not really. I'm willing to concede on that point though

The speed is needed, because assuming Goku is able to sense her and know where she's coming from, she needs to tag him before he can retreat or dodge or anything of the sort.

This is assuming Goku is immediately going to transform if Neptune approaches him. From recollection, he has hardly ever, if at all, been shown to do that - transform when an opponent is approaching him - so that's a moot point.

This is a fair point, though it's still a 50/50 given he'd have to have the ability to sense her to do that.

Assuming he can sense her, his chances of winning are significantly higher. If he can't, Neptune most likely just wins outright.

1. Then that's probably several minutes. That's a long time

2. Fair enough I suppose, although it doesn't really matter since Neptune does anything and stuns

3. Firstly, that's assuming that Neptune knows he can sense her. Secondly, that's assuming Goku can sense her at all. For the former, without prior knowledge she can very easily get caught off guard, but for the latter it literally doesn't matter

4. It's moreso if Goku survives the first hit and then sees Neptune outpacing him, he's definitely going to try transforming in order to keep up, in which he blitzes. But that's ONLY if he survives the first hit

5. Yes exactly. Therefore I'm holding off on my vote.


Why exactly are people saying Goku can't sense her?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Immediately off the bat, he wouldn't be able to see Neptune because of the White Orb making it so he can't see her unless she lands a hit on him, and he also can't sense her because Share Energy can't be sensed by anyone that isn't a Goddess (I don't think verse equalization would work here because Ki and Share Energy are pretty different in terms of functionality)

Why exactly are people saying Goku can't sense her?

• Goku can't visually spot her because of the White Orb, essentially making Neptune invisible to him until she lands an attack.
• Goku can't sense her because there's no verse equalization between Ki and Share Energy; both are quite different fundamentally.

But Verse equalization should actually take place here, so Goku could sense her.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Firstly, that's assuming that Neptune knows he can sense her. Secondly, that's assuming Goku can sense her at all. For the former, without prior knowledge she can very easily get caught off guard, but for the latter it literally doesn't matter

Fair enough, I guess

It's moreso if Goku survives the first hit and then sees Neptune outpacing him, he's definitely going to try transforming in order to keep up, in which he blitzes. But that's ONLY if he survives the first hit

It's not a matter of "if" he survives the first hit. He's going to survive the first hit, period, because he is higher into 2-C than Neptune is. It's a matter of if Neptune lands the hit. If she does, there's literally nothing he can do to counter it because he'll be inflicted with these statuses that hinder him and will eventually kill him.

But Verse equalization should actually take place here, so Goku could sense her.

Verse equalization honestly needs a rework; it is way too vague to justify it being a thing, all it does is go "uhhh energies equalize and uh yeah that's good" without ever specifying when or how said equalization should be applicable

That said, I feel like we should look at it from two different perspectives, considering the ambiguity of it:

If Goku can't sense Neptune, she will be visually invisible to him whilst remaining unable to be sensed by him, meaning he has no way to anticipate when, where, or how she is going to attack him. Since he doesn't know where she'll be before Neptune lands a hit on him, he doesn't know where to attack, therefore he has no real way to incapacitate her.

If Goku can sense Neptune, he may not have a visual on her, but he will still be able to determine where she is through sensing. He'd be able to track her and he'd know where he would be throwing his attacks at. It just then becomes a matter of whether or not he'll be able to hit her. In that regard, I'd say it would be a bit more difficult, as not only does she have a speed amp, but Goku's speed is also inherently neutered because of the Weaken Enemies effect.

I understand that his transformations give him speed amps. I understand that if he were to transform, he would speedblitz her a few times over. I know that is one of his wincons in the scenario that he can sense her. But we have to keep in mind that he isn't always going to feel the need to transform, let alone against someone who he knows is weaker than him. I'm not saying you're wrong in that he could do it, because he absolutely could. I'm just saying that, under these circumstances, I don't believe him choosing to transform is very feasible.

 

[Mickey1940]

But Verse equalization should actually take place here, so Goku could sense her.

Verse equalization doesn't work when the 2 power sources do fundamentally different things

Ki and Share Energy are entirely different. This ain't Goku vs Naruto where both characters use Ki/Chakra

Meaning Goku's fukked

 

[Mickey1940]

Fair enough, I guess

It's not a matter of "if" he survives the first hit. He's going to survive the first hit, period, because he is higher into 2-C than Neptune is. It's a matter of if Neptune lands the hit. If she does, there's literally nothing he can do to counter it because he'll be inflicted with these statuses that hinder him and will eventually kill him.

Verse equalization honestly needs a rework; it is way too vague to justify it being a thing, all it does is go "uhhh energies equalize and uh yeah that's good" without ever specifying when or how said equalization should be applicable

That said, I feel like we should look at it from two different perspectives, considering the ambiguity of it:

If Goku can't sense Neptune, she will be visually invisible to him whilst remaining unable to be sensed by him, meaning he has no way to anticipate when, where, or how she is going to attack him. Since he doesn't know where she'll be before Neptune lands a hit on her, he doesn't know where to attack, therefore he has no real way to incapacitate her.

If Goku can sense Neptune, he may not have a visual on her, but he will still be able to determine where she is through sensing. He'd be able to track her and he'd know where he would be throwing his attacks at. It just then becomes a matter of whether or not he'll be able to hit her. In that regard, I'd say it would be a bit more difficult, as not only does she have a speed amp, but Goku's speed is also inherently neutered because of the Weaken Enemies effect.

I understand that his transformations give him speed amps. I understand that if he were to transform, he would speedblitz her a few times over. I know that is one of his wincons in the scenario that he can sense her. But we have to keep in mind that he isn't always going to feel the need to transform, let alone against someone who he knows is weaker than him. I'm not saying you're wrong in that he could do it, because he absolutely could. I'm just saying that, under these circumstances, I don't believe him choosing to transform is very feasible.

1. yee

2. I meant it as Goku doesn't survive the first hit due to Poisons and para, not the hit itself

3. I fully agree with this. Multiple energies from multiple series do fundamentally different things, and therefore shouldn't apply here. HOWEVER, I'm not sure if SENSING this energy is still not applicable, since even though the energies do different things, characters should still be able to sense other sources of energy unless explicitedly stated otherwise (like God Ki)

4A. If Goku can't sense Neptune then yes he is fukked

4B. If Goku can sense Neptune then it depends if Neptune can hit him before he hits her, since she NEEDS to hit him in order to use Weaken, Para, and Poison. Meaning if Goku knocks her out first by ITing and catching her off guard off the bat, she's fukked

5. Goku has transformed against characters blatantly weaker but much faster before. One example would be Hit, who was blitzing him with Timeskip. Another example would be Base Dyspo, who was blitzing God and forced Goku to use Blue despite his lack of strength. There's no reason to assume he wouldn't transform just because she's weaker. The issue is, does Goku die before he can even transform in the first place, cuz I admit he's not gonna transform unless he A. sees her blitzing him, B. she hits him and he gets stunlocked into oblivion, or C. both.

In Situation A, if Neptune for some dumbass reason doesn't use her speed to hit him, Goku will transform and *** her over

In Situations B and C Goku's stunlocked and poisoned so he can't transform anyways lmao

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Because Goku doesn't resist Paralysis which works on entities that don't have any nerves to begin with. Again, like the aforementioned data creatures, 2D entities, or ghosts - things that don't have the same biology as humans do (in fact, they don't have any biology lol). He resists paralysis, yes, but Neptune's paralysis is more potent because it can affect things that don't have nerves whatsoever. Unless Goku has shown resistance to this kind of paralysis (which he hasn't as far as I remember), he will be getting affected by it.

It is not how it works.

This doesn't give additional layers or anything like that, it's just what she can affect with her hax.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Goku has transformed against characters blatantly weaker but much faster before.

I'm aware of that, but he won't even know that Neptune would immediately be faster than him, and by the time he does learn that fact, he'd most likely be paralyzed and poisoned already.

In Situation A, if Neptune for some dumbass reason doesn't use her speed to hit him, Goku will transform and *** her over

she may be ditzy sometimes, but she's sure as hell not stupid enough to go in and start swinging

 

[Fezzih_007]

Verse equalization doesn't work when the 2 power sources do fundamentally different things

Almost all Power sources do different things, and they still get equalized in a versus match when the Power sources is actually nescessary to fight the opponent.
Like, If the energies of the verse have similatiries they would get equalized, and If they need a Power source from the verse so the fight can actually happen, they would get equalized.
There's some exceptions, so i not gonna go in details.

Ki and Share Energy are entirely different.

They still would get equalized If they have similatiries trought.

This ain't Goku vs Naruto where both characters use Ki/Chakra

Techinically, Ki and Chakra are also Very different between each other, but i not gonna have this Discussion again.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Considering God Ki and stat equalization, Goku can feel it.

He resists poison and paralysis since it appears her hax isn't layered.

I don't know how SBA works with goku.

If he starts at the base, any transformation will turn Neptune into a statue that cannot do anything because of the difference in speed. So he could just finish it since he can feel it.

If he starts with MUI, he won't get hit and will be faster.

Since her immortality depends on resuscitation and not powerful regeneration, then Goku could just destroy her completely.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Verse equalization honestly needs a rework; it is way too vague to justify it being a thing, all it does is go "uhhh energies equalize and uh yeah that's good" without ever specifying when or how said equalization should be applicable

It really looks that It just works when Magic is involved.

 

[thetechmaster36]

This doesn't give additional layers or anything like that, it's just what she can affect with her hax.

I wasn't saying that it did. I probably implied that it did though, so I apologize for that, but I liken this more to something like Time Stop working on Immeasurable speed characters - as far as I remember, that sort of thing isn't to do with layers, but simply how powerful the time stop is.

That said, if I'm wrong, I will gladly concede to that

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I wasn't saying that it did. I probably implied that it did though, so I apologize for that, but I liken this more to something like Time Stop working on Immeasurable speed characters - as far as I remember, that sort of thing isn't to do with layers, but simply how powerful the time stop is.

That said, if I'm wrong, I will gladly concede to that

From what I remember it's more about what it can or cannot affect.

Your TS to interact with immeasurable characters is to prove that you can do it. But I don't remember it providing layers.

It is not type 4 acausuality that provides resistance. And that affecting them with, for example, causality manipulation actually provides something.

It would be like if her poison worked on non-existent beings. I think this would be more a feat of interacting with this type of entity that should normally be resistant to this power because of its physiology rather than hax gaining layers.

Paralysis I think would definitely not work on Goku.

I'm not 100% sure about the poison.

Because it is a type of hax that is based on potency and not exactly based on layers (although it also has that)

Like radiation.

Garou does gg on characters with radiation resistance because their radiation has a much greater potency than others. In this case it doesn't exactly involve layers.

 

[thetechmaster36]

I mean, you look at it this way

If the poison affects things like ghosts and robots - things that have an unconventional resistance due to not possessing biology whatsoever, especially ghosts - then does that not mean that the effects are simply extremely powerful and therefore above the paygrade of a standard resistance, like the poison from a dart frog or something?

I don't think it's layers, hell I don't even think poison has anything to do with layers, it's just the degree of potency that it has