All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[pineappleman]

The Frieza calculation was accepted.

Yeah, just a tier.


Not a huge amount probably.

For the record, I call bullshit on the use of this new Freeza calc specifically to downgrade when the calc from Dragon Ball Super Ep 19 already exists and has been accepted for 2 years

Dragon Ball Z: Frieza destroys Planet Vegeta Re-calced

vsbattles.fandom.com

There are no valid reasons to do so, especially since in your calc you had to go through rescaling and overlaying shenanigans, and as KLOL explained previously the timeframe of the feat can not be reliable
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/1138614302652235906/1142926777988165752/Screenshot_100.png

 

[Damage3245]

For the record, I call bullshit on the use of this new Freeza calc specifically to downgrade when the calc from Dragon Ball Super Ep 19 already exists and has been accepted for 2 years

The new calc won't automatically supercede the old one. There will be a CRT at some point to cover it (or more fittingly, a Calc Group thread). So the issue can be resolved then instead of hashing it out now.

 

[TiltedFN]

yall just downgrading to downgrade atp

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The new calc won't automatically supercede the old one. There will be a CRT at some point to cover it (or more fittingly, a Calc Group thread). So the issue can be resolved then instead of hashing it out now.

The scouter calc literally doesn’t show the entire thing you’ll get a more accurate result from the actual feat being depicted as KLOL said

 

[Damage3245]

yall just downgrading to downgrade atp

Considering Null is responsible for bringing new multipliers to the verse that would upgrade several characters, accusations of "downgrading to downgrade" are ridiculous.

 

[Damage3245]

The scouter calc literally doesn’t show the entire thing you’ll get a more accurate result from the actual feat being depicted as KLOL said

Like I said, it'll be hashed out later. I've no interest in getting into it right now.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Here's the revised AP chain

First Form Frieza casually destroyed planet Vegeta. >7.44 Ronnatons or 5-A

Suppressed Second Form Frieza curbstomped the Z-Fighters, who could have beat his First Form. >7.44 Ronnatons

Weighted Piccolo outclassed Second Form Frieza. >7.44 Ronnatons

Second Form Frieza at full power curbstomped Weighted Piccolo. >7.44 Ronnatons

Unweighted Piccolo is portrayed as superior to him. >7.44 Ronnatons

Third Form Frieza outclassed Piccolo massively. >7.44 Ronnatons

Vegeta was way weaker than Final Form Frieza, who used way more power than his other forms, but stood the greatest chance at winning and reacted to his Death Beams. >7.44 Ronnatons

Suppressed Final Form Frieza was greatly superior. >7.44 Ronnatons

Goku is comparable to Frieza, and powered up at least once. >7.44 Ronnatons

Goku is capable of multiplying his power 20-fold. >148.8 Ronnatons or High 5-A

Super Saiyan multiplies his speed and power 50-fold, which is substantiated by Frieza at less than half power being comparable to a Kaioken x20 Kamehameha. >372 Ronnatons

Future Gohan is leagues stronger than when he harmed Second Form Frieza. >7.44 Ronnatons

Super Saiyan is a 50x multiplier. >372 Ronnatons

Future 17 used less than half his power to beat Super Saiyan Future Gohan. >744 Ronnatons

Future Cell is stronger than the Future Androids. >744 Ronnatons

Cell absorbed 15,000 humans from an entire city. >744 Ronnatons

Weighted Piccolo is superior to Cell. >744 Ronnatons

17 is comparable to Unweighted Piccolo. >744 Ronnatons

Powered up Cell and Android 16 are far superior to both of them. >744 Ronnatons

Semi-Perfect Cell absorbed 17 is far superior to 16. >1.48 Quettatons

Post-RoSAT Future Trunks is powerful enough to halt Semi-Perfect Cell in his steps. >1.48 Quettatons

Super Trunks is 10x as powerful as he was in Grade 2. >14.8 Quettatons or Low 4-C

Although inferior, Perfect Cell manages to inflict damage upon Super Trunks, who is stalling for Krillin. <14.8 Quettatons

Cell Juniors possess the same strength and speed as their creator, Cell. <14.8 Quettatons

Piccolo held his own against a Cell Junior. <14.8 Quettatons

Piccolo described Shin's power as being dimensions apart from his. >14.8 Quettatons

Base Buu Saga Gohan is stronger than Shin. >14.8 Quettatons

Cell Saga Gohan is as strong as his Buu Saga counterpart. >14.8 Quettatons

Super Saiyan is a 50x multiplier. >740 Quettatons or 4-C

Cell effortlessly pummels and overpowers Gohan. >740 Quettatons

Cell enters his Grade 3 form. >0.3 Foe or High 4-C

Cell revived more powerful and "more perfect" than ever. >0.3 Foe

With less than half power remaining, Gohan manages to defeat Revived Cell's Kamehameha. >0.6 Foe

So TL;DR,
Kaioken x20 Goku is where High 5-A starts
Grade 3 Trunks is where Low 4-C starts
Super Saiyan Gohan is where 4-C starts
Grade 3 Cell is where High 4-C starts
Gohan ends up being x37.95 away from Baseline 4-B, so Gotenks and co would be 4-B

 

[pineappleman]

Like I said, it'll be hashed out later. I've no interest in getting into it right now.

be the one to accept a calc from a scene despite it being called unusable by another reputable calc member for multiple issues
receive immediate backlash
refuse to elaborate and say it can be dealt with another time by other people

Damage3245, my hero

 

[MeiouHades]

In fact both DB and Saint Seiya should be deleted off of here

 

[Damage3245]

@pineappleman Well, now you're just being intentionally ridiculous.

I evaluated a calc because it was put up for evalution. Whether the calc is mathematically correct or not has nothing to do with whether or not we end up using it. KLOL's own opinions of the calc are irrelevant to me as I'm judging just the calc itself.

This is hardly what I'd call "backlash". You haven't discredited the original calc; just shown support for another calc.

I "refuse to elaborate" because this is a general discussion thread, not a CRT or a calc group thread. I don't owe you anything.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

KLOL509 replied to Kulf Boba's calculation stating that the timeframe was impossible to determine because the bulk of the explosion occurred off-screen and there are multiple cuts in-between shots, but every subsequent cut carries over the continuity from the last, like the travelling of shockwaves across space and towards Frieza and the direction of the sparks.

A timeframe of 7 seconds drops the result down to Large Planet level.

Null did kinda address KLOL

 

[Damage3245]

As others have pointed out, it does seem like these downgrade are just for the sake of downgrading because I simply fail to see any other reason for this. And I’d rather a verse get deleted than have it treated unfairly.

This must be a joke.

 

[MeiouHades]

@pineappleman Well, now you're just being intentionally ridiculous.

I evaluated a calc because it was put up for evalution. Whether the calc is mathematically correct or not has nothing to do with whether or not we end up using it.

Nonsense. The calc IS mathematically correct (mathematics and engineering major here, you can trust my judgment on its mathematical validity). That’s not the issue here. The issue was never about its mathematical validity, the issue is the fact that using this scene is just wrong, it doesn’t give an accurate time frame and pixel scaling using a reflection is already ridiculous enough (for example, depending on what the scouter is made of, the reflection on the glass can be smaller). This is something you should know, and I know you do, you know it very well, and I’m still not surprised you ended up accepting it even though there are obvious issues with it that have nothing to do with mathematics.

KLOL's own opinions of the calc are irrelevant to me as I'm judging just the calc itself.

It is not. He points out the obvious issue that you conveniently miss hiding under the guise of “I don’t know if it’s mathematically correct”.

I "refuse to elaborate" because this is a general discussion thread, not a CRT or a calc group thread. I don't owe you anything.

Right, I totally believe that.

 

[MeiouHades]

This must be a joke.

What’s a bigger joke is how you accepted the calc wearing a blindfold not even questioning the issue Null himself stated that were pointed by KLOL

 

[Damage3245]

What’s a bigger joke is how you accepted the calc wearing a blindfold not even questioning the issue Null himself stated that were pointed by KLOL

What the hell are you talking about? Whatever issue KLOL has is irrelevant to whether the actual maths of the calc is correct.

Accepting a calc as a Calc Group Member is nowhere near the same as saying "This calc can be used on the profiles right away."

There is no good reason why I shouldn't accept the calc. If you don't like it, then deal with it.

 

[Damage3245]

Nonsense. The calc IS mathematically correct (mathematics and engineering major here, you can trust my judgment on its mathematical validity). That’s not the issue here. The issue was never about its mathematical validity, the issue is the fact that using this scene is just wrong, it doesn’t give an accurate time frame and pixel scaling using a reflection is already ridiculous enough (for example, depending on what the scouter is made of, the reflection on the glass can be smaller). This is something you should know, and I know you do, you know it very well, and I’m still not surprised you ended up accepting it even though there are obvious issues with it that have nothing to do with mathematics.

It is not. He points out the obvious issue that you conveniently miss hiding under the guise of “I don’t know if it’s mathematically correct”.

Is you accept that the calc is mathematically correct, then we've got nothing further to talk about here, duh.

Those "obvious issues that have nothing to do with mathematics"? That's what the Content Revision threads and Calc Group threads are for. Didn't I point that out?

Right, I totally believe that.

Whether you believe it or not, I don't owe you anything so have fun with that.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Downgrades are actually really healthy for verses, since we'd get new matches and such, stagnation always leads to dead verses

 

[pineappleman]

Shoutouts to KLOL for going above and beyond and bothering to check if a scene is actually applicable or not before accepting it's calc to not waste multiple peoples' time! Model dude if you ask me

 

[MeiouHades]

Downgrades are actually really healthy for verses, since we'd get new matches and such, stagnation always leads to dead verses

Then go all out. Make every possible downgrade, accurate or not. It just needs to be a downgrade, go for wall level if possible.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Downgrades are actually really healthy for verses, since we'd get new matches and such, stagnation always leads to dead verses

Downgrades are healthy only when the tiering isn't proper. The primary reason of this community's existence is finding a verse's tier. Matchups are just fun little things to do after that.

Then go all out. Make every possible downgrade, accurate or not. It just needs to be a downgrade, go for wall level if possible.

Wall-level Azathoth?

 

[ChronoULT]

Toryama said that the galactic patrol couldn't do anything agains the saiyans or freeza, and since they have the bomb, then the 2 must be able to resist that, but we have no proof of a galactic patrol nor the extinction bomb in the toei continuity

We actually have for the galactic patrol in daizenshuu 7 here, but probably nothing about the extinction bomb

 

[Damage3245]

Now I ask, is THIS a joke? Because it has to be. There is no freaking way you don’t see the issues of using this scene, let alone even pointing them out.

Do you or do you not know of or see the issues of using this scene for calcs? That’s the question, that’s all.

I never said you did. That was not the purpose that remark.

What part of "This is a topic for Content Revision threads / Calc Group threads" didn't you get from my posts?

When did I even say that the calc should be used in the first place?

If there are valid issues with it, then it won't be used. So there's no point stressing about it or asking me to debate here and now.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Then go all out. Make every possible downgrade, accurate or not. It just needs to be a downgrade, go for wall level if possible.

Upgrades are also pretty healthy, although verses that get upgraded to above Tier 3 usually end up dead, those tiers are quite big, and unless you got some hax, ya ain't getting any fair fights

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Downgrades are healthy only when the tiering isn't proper. The primary reason of this community's existence is finding a verse's tier. Matchups are just fun little things to do after that.

True, true, although WWE wouldn't gotten such a big presence here if it weren't for all those matches and tournaments

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Guys, chill with accusations, we hash it out when it tries to get applied. I can understand where yall are coming from but let's not get hostile, all it does is give the people your arguing against grounds to dismiss your arguements. That's already happened way too much, let's not make it worse.

 

[MeiouHades]

Upgrades are also pretty healthy, although verses that get upgraded to above Tier 3 usually end up dead, those tiers are quite big, and unless you got some hax, ya ain't getting any fair fights

Goku’s page is consistently in the tending section. DB has been above tier 3 for years here, I assure you, your fear of it being dead won’t materialize.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

You can't 'win' in a topic discussion, there is no point in making it a huge deal, save it for the CRT.

 

[Damage3245]

The fact that you think it being mathematically correct means all further discussion is over for us, when you do not even need those threads to see why this is blatantly wrong.

I said I'm not interested in discussing it here. As in the general discussion thread of the series. That doesn't mean I don't think that calc should be discussed elsewhere.

I never said you did. I asked why you‘d “accept” something that is so obviously wrong, not even question it? Because that’s the job of the calc group thread? Then what does you accepting it mean then? Enlighten me please.

Accepting it means that the calc is judged to be mathematically correct and it can be brought up in Content Revision thread or Calc Group threads... It doesn't mean just slap it onto the profile without further discussion or evaluation.

If? So you still can’t see it?
Or, much more likely, you do but given that you’ve vehemently agreed with downgrade attempts and disagreed with upgrade attempts, I’m not surprised. Pattern recognition.

"If" as in I'm not casting judgement on that yet. I've got no reason to yet.

Has it ever crossed your brain that I "vehemently agree with downgrade attempts and disgreed with upgrade attempts" because I believed those threads were accurate? Believe it or not, in my many years being here I have actually disagreed with downgrades and proposed upgrades myself across multiple verses. But your opinion of me won't stop my evaluations either way.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

That is…not a reason to dismiss any argument and if someone does that, they’re the ones at fault.

You can bring this up in the CRT is my point. I never said I agree or disagree with the sentiment, I'm saying getting snippy with a mod won't change their mind. And since he's a mod, he has power, it's just shooting yourself in the foot in the long term. I'm not dismissing anything, I promise.

 

[Damage3245]

I don’t see a rule anywhere stating that discussion for calcs in general threads isn’t allowed but okay

I never said it was a rule or that other people are forbidden from discussing it. I said I wasn't interested in it.

So, if I’m getting this right, the only requirement to earn your approval for a calc is for it be mathematically valid, correct?

That's it in a nutshell. Calc Group members look for errors and whether methods are being used correctly. There's not a lot of point in holding a huge debate in the comments of a calc blog.

you aren’t in the “supporter” section of the DB verse page on the wiki, right?

I haven't put name in supporter sections for verses for years, probably. I don't think that the concept of supporters/neutrals/opponents hold a lot of merit. I love Dragon Ball as a series and I "support" it as a verse by being active in the revisions for it. That doesn't mean I blindly approve everything that comes up up for it.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I still have to wait for my uncomposite CRT to finish before I continue on with my lifting strength upgrade to Super...

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Fried rice

wut

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Fried rice

Idk man but that looks kinda good. All you need is some soy sauce to dip it in.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Has the SSG multiplier been accepted yet?

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Oh sweet, looks like Antvasima reopened the low 1-C thread.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Why, what's more to talk about? The staff already disagreed.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If you keep trying hard enough, eventually the staff'll believe at least one Low 1-C interpretation.

 

[MeiouHades]

Funny thing is, it doesn’t even affect most of DBS except for perhaps Zeno. It’s really an attempt to upgrade DBH if anything

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Funny thing is, it doesn’t even affect most of DBS except for perhaps Zeno. It’s really an attempt to upgrade DBH if anything

And maybe Zamasu.

 

[MeiouHades]

And maybe Zamasu.

I doubt it. We would’ve given him 36U 2-C if we allowed him to scale but we don’t.