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ByAsura

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Iceman Full Potential Upgrade​

This thread kind of died, so I'm redoing it here.

After absorbing a flake of the Black Winter, Terrax's power was boosted massively to the point of casually wrecking the Avengers/Silver Surfer, and he implied that he would kill at least the universe.

Iceman taps into more power than ever before (but not some sort of cap on his full strength, as there is no upper limit) and produces temperatures that could freeze Terrax, seal the flake of Black Winter and halt part of space-time.

Obviously, freezing palace's worth space-time means nothing, but Iceman did surpass the Black Winter despite claiming they both have temperature manipulation powers.

I think At least 3-B or 2-C is reasonable.

Monica Rambeau Full Potential Upgrade (Accepted, but I'm saving this for later)​

It's revealed that Photon was empowered by a Kree artefact that blurs the lines between realities. She broke the universe and was causing reality/dimensional walls to crumble and alternate realities to converge to the point where the universe eventually collapse. Starfox later claims that this was a multiversal problem.

Starfox tapped into Photon's mind and suspended the anomalies. Monica then dissipated them.

This is constantly portrayed as a level of power she always had, but couldn't draw out.

The Beyonder (they weren't exactly the original, but that seems to be due to timeline shenanigans given the stuff about Owen Reece) even claims that her power almost rivals their own and was breaking down dimensional walls. In Defenders: Beyond (an earlier comic), it's stated that The Beyonder was incubating in a womb space when Owen Reece poked a hole in it, which would suggest that this is a variation of The Beyonder created by the timeline that Monica created where Secret Wars never happened.

So, easy 2-A for Monica Rambeau.

Celestials and M-Bodies​

In X-Termination, AU Beast says that Celestials across the multiverse are universal aspects of a singular being. Notably, aspect is often used when denoting fragments of Eternity and Infinity.

Since there was a unified cosmos before the Second Cosmos, this means the weaponry that shattered the First Firmament and technology that created The Beyonders (The Beyonders stuff has been retconned, but is getting unretconned) were actually made by the multiversal bodies of the Celestials.

Idk what they should have for these main bodies (maybe we can scale them to Multiversal Abstracts?), but they should have 1-A via preparation.

M-Bodies​

And, on this note, that brings me to the topic of M-Bodies.

The term used for Eternity's universal bodies isn't 'manifestation bodies' (outside the handbook, anyway), it's cells, aspects, fragments or visualisations. Manifestation bodies in Quasar are merely presented as different manifestations of Universal Abstracts at different moments of subjective time, hence that entire scan where Quasar notes that 616 Infinity is a different M-Body to the 616 Infinity that he met during the whole Maelstrom fight.

There's absolutely no indication or logic behind the notion that Eternity or Infinity, who literally are the universes that they embody, have to go and get Manifestations in order to exist in the universe that they encompass.

Technically, though, you're seeing an M-Body whenever Universal Eternity is on-screen. So, yes, I am splitting hairs here, but literally all we have to do is change M-Body to Universal in the profile's keys to be slightly more accurate. What'd be even more accurate is if we changed the descriptions of everyone who's on par with Universal Abstracts to M-Bodies, but that's even more stupid, redundant and annoying than what I'm suggesting here.

Removing Earth-1298 Beyonder's key​

This is actually referring to the fact that 'The Beyonder' was was going to access the Nexus of Realities and **** everything up.

Also, it wasn't even The Beyonder. The Beyonder of this universe died, so the Goblin Queen (who had enough power to kill its universe's Phoenix Force and Galactus) took his shell and used it to boost her power.
 
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i agree but question, should all the abstracts have all the abilities displayed by their M-Bodies at least in their multiversal keys?
 
Both universal and multiversal abstracts have the abilities of universal m-bodies.
 
The Aspirants, while inferior, could fend off Lifebringer Galactus in the Superflow.

Since they predated and exist outside of the Second Cosmos, they logically wouldn't be affected by the hierarchal changes to the Cosmos. They also wouldn't have universal fragments here (but are capable of making them) because the Aspirants exist primarily in the Far Shore.

The rebel Celestials were able to fight and one-shot them before the creation of the Second Cosmos, and the newly created Fifth Host of the Eighth Cosmos could obliterate them in the Superflow.

So, I think Low 1-A makes sense for multiversal Celestials.
 
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It takes place some vague time after he nearly obliterated the Black Winter, hence Thor's statement about the power cosmic and the Black Winter being a single snowflake.
 
It takes place some vague time after he nearly obliterated the Black Winter, hence Thor's statement about the power cosmic and the Black Winter being a single snowflake.
The Black Winter was a multiverse-eater, with full-power Galactus as its herald. How is it a single snowflake and of what?
 
Okay. I thought that it was suddenly claimed that the Black Winter itself was a single snowflake.
 
Are there any anti-feats for iceman scaling that high?
Many anti feats.
But I can only think of one i read where he struggled against Juggernaut but hr didn't beat Cain tho. He only BFR him.
It's impossible for Iceman to have anti-feats at this level because he's never been this strong before.

Nobody even scales to him.
 
Wdym by multiversal bodies of celestials? Technically, every living being is an aspect of eternity as the way dr.strange told about it.
Who's the singular being referred in X terminators? You are suggesting it's Eternity? (since, Idk about context)
 
Well, Celestials being single multiversal entities with manifestations/avatars in individual universes makes sense to me.
 
Who's the singular being referred in X terminators?
The Celestials have aspects of themselves that manifest across different universes.

For example, Arishem exists in infinite universes, and there's a singular Arishem that's composed of all Arishems across the multiverse.
Wdym by multiversal bodies of celestials? Technically, every living being is an aspect of eternity as the way dr.strange told about it.
No. That's not how the Celestials, who aren't even living in a conventional sense and broadcast their true forms from Hyperspace, work.

For example, Lord Chaos also has infinite variations of himself across the multiverse, as the concept of Chaos exists in (with exceptions) each universe. So, there's a multiversal version of himself that's composed of each universal variation. This is why Death can be at war with Eternity, and Galactus has equal stature to Eternity and Death, yet In-Betweener (the culmination of Lord Chaos and Master Order) is his cosmic equal and opposite.

These kinds of Cosmic Entities (as in Death, Lord Chaos, Master Order, etc, etc) aren't strictly part of Eternity, he just encompasses the universe that contains their concepts. However, multiversal Celestials (not universal, mind you, since they're a definitive part of the cosmic hierarchy) probably aren't even part of multiversal TLT since they were around before he was a thing and created the facets of existence that he personifies.
You are suggesting it's Eternity? (since, Idk about context)
Not even remotely.

In context, that makes absolutely no sense because human beings are part of Eternity and have infinite copies, yet Beast outright says that humans aren't like Celestials in that respect.
 
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Please elaborate. I didn't think that you would edit The Beyonder page.

Removing Earth-1298 Beyonder's key​

This is actually referring to the fact that 'The Beyonder' was was going to access the Nexus of Realities and **** everything up.

Also, it wasn't even The Beyonder. The Beyonder of this universe died, so the Goblin Queen (who had enough power to kill its universe's Phoenix Force and Galactus) took his shell and used it to boost her power.
 
Yeah Iceman should be 2-A most likely based on what Asura uncovered. However, the interesting thing is that even with this upgrade he is still considered Omega rather than Beyond Omega level. I wonder how do we even quantify Beyond Omega Level Classification if Omega is described as basically being 'whatever the Authors want them to be at pretty much because there is no canon upper limit'
 
Different authors define omega level differently, and this author apparently didn't keep up with Jonathan Hickman's most recent canon definition of that it is simply the mutant on Earth with the strongest power in a specific area, if I remember correctly.
 
Thank you. Undefinable is not remotely the same as unlimited though, just unknown.
 
The Beyonder (they weren't exactly the original, but that seems to be due to timeline shenanigans given the stuff about Owen Reece) even claims that her power almost rivals their own and was breaking down dimensional walls. In Defenders: Beyond (an earlier comic), it's stated that The Beyonder was incubating in a womb space when Owen Reece poked a hole in it, which would suggest that this is a variation of The Beyonder created by the timeline that Monica created where Secret Wars never happened.

So, easy 2-A for Monica Rambeau
Is her 2-A scaling from Post Retcon Beyonder?
 
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