Flame Emperor vs Dark King

[DaMonkeMan]

Layer and potency are the same thing, it made perfect sense to remove it.

The argument is the equivalent of saying Zoro blocking east blue fodder sword attacks makes his haki more potent/layered than eos Luffy who's haki was cut through by Shanks.

Of what, haki resisting fire attacks? It's already an accepted thing. Draw who's Haki is less potent than Rayleigh's was unfazed by Ace's fire due to using haki.

Sabo's fire isn't effecting Rayleigh.

No they aren't.
iirc Luffy had more layers but Sabo's is considerably more potent and strong.
But whatever.

 

[Eminiteable]

No they aren't.
iirc Luffy had more layers but Sabo's is considerably more potent and strong.
But whatever.

No, you're wrong.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

One Piece: Busoshoku Haki Potency and Buso Layers Scaling

First things first we have a clear heirarchy of Haki Potencies in the series. These will be the mechanics for finding out their potency. Scaling Methods of Buso A devil fruit power from a Haki user failing to work on another Haki user means the other Haki user is relative to (or superior to)...

vsbattles.com

 

[SlendVeny]

Of what, haki resisting fire attacks? It's already an accepted thing. Draw who's Haki is less potent than Rayleigh's was unfazed by Ace's fire due to using haki.

Then use Draw as your first example.

 

[Kachon123]

He doesn't have to spoonfeed you information that is in the haki page/is common knowledge

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Lol.
Anyway can someone list wincons

 

[Kachon123]

Rayleigh: Better Haki, Faster, more experience, Buso Emission
Sabo: Range, Mobility, Stamina

 

[SlendVeny]

He doesn't have to spoonfeed you information that is in the haki page/is common knowledge

I knew it already, I didn't disagree, my complaint was about the original reasoning used. Having better Haki than Luffy doesn't necessarily mean you resist things Luffy resists better than Luffy. Draw is a far superior example.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

That's true ngl.
Anyway might vote Rayleigh. Just has more wincons.

 

[Darkvie123]

Its important to note that sabo matched fujitora longer than rayleigh did kizaru, its unfair to compare their performances when sabo took more damage overtime

Also besides the movement speed advantage what puts kizaru over fujitora really?

Not arguing sabo wins but I dont think there's a good enough reason to put rayleigh over him either

At the very least we cant prove rayleigh has the heat resistance to completely negate sabo's giant flame attacks so that's something sabo has going for him.

Sabo couldnt get past a holding back Fujitora while Kizaru couldnt stop Rayleigh. Its clear that Ray is superior unlit further notice

 

[Kachon123]

Here's my summary:

Their AP with haki scale to around the same level (relative to Admirals) which means that due to the fact that Rayleigh's haki scales higher, Sabo has better Base AP.

Rayleigh not only has better Haki potency, which would probably allow him to break Sabo's pipe, but he also has better haki usage with Buso Emission, which would help is defending against Sabo's flame-based attacks.

With this in mind Rayleigh would definitely hold the advantage at the beginning of the fight.

During his fight with Kizaru, Rayleigh showed that his stamina is not the best, only allowing him to fight for maybe around 10 minutes without getting tired and slowing down.

Because of this, if Rayleigh doesn't finish Sabo off before he gets tired, the advantage would completely switch over to Sabo.

Sabo is definitely capable enough to survive for long enough before Rayleigh slows down due to his training as a Revolutionary, where as a kid, he would fight against the likes of Kuma and Hack, who were much stronger than himself.

Sabo would be sure to catch on to Rayleigh's stamina draining, so I believe he'd take to the skies and slowly pressure him, shooting fire projectiles to either force Rayleigh to dodge or use more Haki to defend-- both of which would take even more stamina.

Rayleigh isn't stupid, so he would realize what Sabo is doing, but the sad part is that there's nothing he can really do about it.

If he were to jump in the air to attack Sabo, he'd be at a disadvantage, as Sabo can simply dodge or use his fire flight and stop Rayleigh, which would put him in a horrible position, in the air without an ability to fly against one of he most lethal fighting styles and ruthless characters in the series.

If Rayleigh stays on the ground, he'd eventually tire out and Sabo would swoop in and defeat him, but if he goes in the air, Sabo would use his Ryosoken and crush his skull.

I'm giving it to Sabo mid-high diff.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I ain't reading allat TLDR or get out my face /s
Anyway Idk where this " Rayleigh has bad stamina " stuff comes from but I do agree with what Kachon said besides that.

 

[Kachon123]

Anyway Idk where this " Rayleigh has bad stamina " stuff comes from

His fight with Kizaru

 

[Eminiteable]

Rayleigh: Better Haki, Faster, more experience, Buso Emission
Sabo: Range, Mobility, Stamina

Missed off internal destruction for Rayleigh. And honestly Rayleigh takes AP as well.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

His fight with Kizaru

Eh, we don't know how long he'd last in a prolonged fight.

 

[Kachon123]

Eh, we don't know how long he'd last in a prolonged fight.

From that fight, we know that his stamina runs out quickly.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Well, what ever.