MHS+ Seems Too Much: Marvel Comics

[M3X_2.0]

Continued from this thread.

In the previous thread, we agreed that Massively Hypersonic+ (boderline Sub-Rel actually) is too much for Street Level characters and it breaks the context of their own concept as street level and break their stories. And they barely have any feats on this scale. So context + consistency tells us they are not MHS+. This thread's purpose is to gather feats, projectile based feats or whatever. Previous thread I said the most common feats are bullet timing feats, so I'm aiming for that.

Feats related to another characters, for example "Keeping up with X", "Stated to be faster than X" are 100% valid too. The speed scaling (wich will be the third thread) is currently ****** up. Everyone scaling to Daredevil despite them never meeting or Daredevil being straight up faster than like, 80% of the street people.

Gathering feats and calculating them to get a consistent value is the objective of this thread, I'm seeing something like Hypersonic or High Hypersonic for most of the feats.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I've gathered feats for Moon Knight and Daredevil.

Spoiler: Moon Knight

The feats I gathered for Moon Knight.

1 - Feat
2 - Feat
3 - Feat
4 - Feat
5 - Feat
6 - Feat
7 - Feat
8 - Feat
9 - Feat
10 - I forgor
11 - Feat

Actually **** you I won't hyperlink everything

12 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/scppkU3)
13 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/tjA0O4q)
14 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/8WmX5JE)
15 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/YPT8xz2)
16 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/dE7MGpF)
17 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/0Nb5dqp)
18 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/LSx3NPW)
19 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/RB2ynqV)
20 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/sqkMQ6E)
21 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/wQFzO42)
22 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/EIrzWpR)
23 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/RlRWlwp)
24 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/4tAae6x)
25 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/lrPK4Vn)
26 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/atdAUA6)
27 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/8d7L8IF)
28 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/a8okxBM)
29 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/qDJafLz)
30 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/JBHvh9I)
31 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/4tRlKxT)
32 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/tMaLxD7)
33 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/HLfigh8)
34 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/sefjjXh)
35 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/CEe151t)
36 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/zWVh5ZQ)
37 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/hLmJfDh)
38 - I forgor
39 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/vRHs5AX)

References:

1 - Moon Knight (1980) - #1
2 - Moon Knight (1980) - #2
3 - Moon Knight (1980) - #9
4 - Moon Knight: Fist of Khonshu - #5
5 - Moon Knight: Fist of Khonshu - #6
6 - Moon Knight: Fist of Khonshu - #6
7 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #1
8 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #4
9 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #25
10 - Null
11 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #31
12 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #36
13 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - Annual #1
14 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #54
15 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #55
16 - Moon Knight (1998) - #2
17 - Moon Knight (1998) - #2
18 - Moon Knight (1998) - #4
19 - Moon Knight (1999) - #1
20 - Moon Knight (1999) - #2
21 - Moon Knight (2006) - #1
22 - Moon Knight (2006) - #14
23 - Moon Knight (2006) - #20
24 - Moon Knight (2006) - #22
25 - Moon Knight: Silent Knight
26 - Moon Knight (2006) - #27
27 - Moon Knight (2006) - #30
28 - Shadowland: Moon Knight - #1
29 - Heroes for Hire (2011) - #1
30 - Secret Avengers - #10
31 - Moon Knight (2011) - #5
32 - Secret Avengers - #16
33 - Hero for Hire (2011) - #12
34 - Moon Knight (2011) - #8
35 - Moon Knight (2014) - #1
36 - Moon Knight (2014) - #5
37 - Moon Knight (2016) - #195
38 -Null
39 - Moon Knight (2021) - #4

Spoiler: Daredevil

Daredevil

• Feat 1 (Man Without Fear Issue 5)
• Feat 2 (Man Without Fear Issue 5)
• Feat 3 (Daredevil Vol 2 Issue 103)
• Feat 4 (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 1)
• Feat 5 (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 20)
• Feat 6 (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 20)
• Feat 7 (Multiple bullets) (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 20)
• Feat 8 (Multiple bullets) (Daredevil Reborn Issue 4)
• Feat 9 (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 32)
• Feat 10 (Daredevil & Captain America: Dead On Arrival)
• Feat 11
• Feat 12
• Feat 13
• Feat 14 (Daredevil Reborn Issue 2)
• Blocks an arrow at close range (DD Vol 1 176)

I think I can gather more.

 

[Antvasima]

@MarvelFanatic119 @Hellbeast @Damage3245 @Maverick_Zero_X @KLOL506 @Gasper @Armorchompy @Chariot190 @LordTracer @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @Qawsedf234 @KingTempest @DarkDragonMedeus

Given that you helped out in the preceding thread, are you willing to help out here as well?

 

[Armorchompy]

I'll watch the thread

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh, by the way, here's some Blade feats, since I made his profile.

• FTE feat, decent distance. Blade: Vampire Hunter Vol 1 3
• FTE feat, worse than the above. Deadpool: The Gauntlet Infinite Comic Vol 1 5
• FTE feat, probably the best one. Blade Vol 4 3
• Weaves between Deadpool's gunfire. Deadpool: The Gauntlet Infinite Comic Vol 1 4

I'm not exactly sure if this is useful though, Blade might be more Spider-Man tier in speed, he's even fought (don't have comic issue at the moment, if needed i can dig it up) Spitfire who's a full-on speedster (not the fastest speedster ever, granted, but like, probably way faster than a "peak human").

One issue if we're splitting Spider-Man and co. from the lower tiers in terms of speed, while it's very easy to argue Peter's faster than just about anyone else, his villains are definitely relative to him to a degree, and those fight lower tiers fairly consistently.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Ha, reminds me when Daredevil defeated Speed Demon.

 

[M3X_2.0]

• Weaves between Deadpool's gunfire. Deadpool: The Gauntlet Infinite Comic Vol 1 4

This might be worth calculating.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think the FTE ones would be better (and easier) honestly, that's a lot of distance crossed in 1/75 seconds, minimum Supersonic for sure

 

[Antvasima]

I'll watch the thread

Thank you for helping out.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I think the FTE ones would be better (and easier) honestly, that's a lot of distance crossed in 1/75 seconds, minimum Supersonic for sure

It's a nice movement speed feat then, we don't have much of these.

 

[Armorchompy]

One issue if we're splitting Spider-Man and co. from the lower tiers in terms of speed, while it's very easy to argue Peter's faster than just about anyone else, his villains are definitely relative to him to a degree, and those fight lower tiers fairly consistently.

In regards to this, are we planning to keep Spider-Man at MHS+? I feel like not scaling lower Street tiers to him is fine only if he's like, a couple times faster at most.

It's a nice movement speed feat then, we don't have much of these.

Well, it'd still scale to his reactions/combat speed since he's clearly fully in control as it's happening. I don't think anyone would scale to it movement speed-wise actually (Minus Spitfire I guess, but she's not too important)

 

[M3X_2.0]

In regards to this, are we planning to keep Spider-Man at MHS+?

I don't know really, Spider-Man doesn't have anything much higher than simple bullet timing. I think he's just faster than them by statements and feats against them.

Anyway, calc whatever you think it's useful, it'd be really helpful.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

@MarvelFanatic119 @Hellbeast @Damage3245 @Maverick_Zero_X @KLOL506 @Gasper @Armorchompy @Chariot190 @LordTracer @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @Qawsedf234 @KingTempest @DarkDragonMedeus

Given that you helped out in the preceding thread, are you willing to help out here as well?

I'm not as familiar with the Marvel Comics street tiers, but I could try looking for feats

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I don't like using Respect Threads but if yall want just do it, so we not waste time here.

 

[Dalesean027]

Are ya just in the compiling feat stage or should some of us pitch in and do calcs for these as we go?

I'm not well versed at all on the comics side of things and have only recently begun to pick them up as of the last year so I'm not going to have the craziest bit of knowledge

 

[M3X_2.0]

Are ya just in the compiling feat stage or should some of us pitch in and do calcs for these as we go?

Both

 

[Dalesean027]

Both

Kay I'm already doing a bunch of marvel game shit for different of the video game verses but I can step in and do some calcs here as well

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I recall Qawsed mentioning that modern Electro has some consistent real lightning statements that Spider-Man deals with regularly. Also, I might need to dig up that old Narutoforums calc; the one where he rescued Hulk and got MHS speed. It should still be valid for speed, even if the Low 7-C calc isn't given our KE rules.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Someone need to dig through these feats then. And the MHS calc. Otherwise, bullet timing for Spider-Man.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Here was the speed feat I was thinking of

 

[M3X_2.0]

Here was the speed feat I was thinking of

Oh nice, I don't think it breaks the KE rules though.... unless punching doesn't count.

Anyway, the speed feat is High Hypersonic, wich is good, but I don't think it's enough to give him this Tier based on one feat from 1900 and something. Though don't worry, some bullet feats might be somewhere between Hypersonic and High Hypersonic.

The lightning based feats should be brought up here for discussion. Some of them are clearly NOT speed feats, and a few of them are valid. I'm using a blog with a feats collections for this statement of mine. I don't think they are more consistent then bullet timing, though.

 

[Da3ggman]

Can someone post the scan to the feat in question? I can't get it to load properly on my computer

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can someone post the scan to the feat in question? I can't get it to load properly on my computer

Here.

 

[Da3ggman]

Appreciate it. Seems fine at a glance for speed.

 

[Armorchompy]

Not as high as I expected. Good for a movement speed rating though.

 

[Armorchompy]

By the way, if that gets approved, can I just add it to Blade's profile as movement speed? The profile already uses the feat, just as a blanket Subsonic with no calc

 

[Antvasima]

Here was the speed feat I was thinking of

I really don't want us to use an unevaluated calculation from the Narutoforums, featuring Spider-man moving the Hulk, as a basis for the speeds of all characters scaling from Spider-Man. I would much rather scale from him dodging electric discharges from Electro. It seems far more reliable.

 

[M3X_2.0]

By the way, if that gets approved, can I just add it to Blade's profile as movement speed? The profile already uses the feat, just as a blanket Subsonic with no calc

Sure. I evaluated it.

 

[Armorchompy]

By the way, if that gets approved, can I just add it to Blade's profile as movement speed? The profile already uses the feat, just as a blanket Subsonic with no calc

@Antvasima may I? Seems straightforward.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I'm thinking about what we should do for each character. There are at least 30 characters and I'm sure most of them have feats. I don't want them to just scale to someone else without feats, so I'm planning to calc at least 1 or 2 feats for each character, and making a better scaling with scans rather than scaling everyone to Daredevil.

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima may I? Seems straightforward.

Probably, yes, but more input wouldn't hurt first.

 

[Antvasima]

I'm thinking about what we should do for each character. There are at least 30 characters and I'm sure most of them have feats. I don't want them to just scale to someone else without feats, so I'm planning to calc at least 1 or 2 feats for each character, and making a better scaling with scans rather than scaling everyone to Daredevil.

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Kachon123]

I can help with any feats that need to be calced

 

[M3X_2.0]

I've gathered feats for Moon Knight and Daredevil.

Spoiler: Moon Knight

The feats I gathered for Moon Knight.

1 - Feat
2 - Feat
3 - Feat
4 - Feat
5 - Feat
6 - Feat
7 - Feat
8 - Feat
9 - Feat
10 - I forgor
11 - Feat

Actually **** you I won't hyperlink everything

12 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/scppkU3)
13 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/tjA0O4q)
14 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/8WmX5JE)
15 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/YPT8xz2)
16 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/dE7MGpF)
17 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/0Nb5dqp)
18 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/LSx3NPW)
19 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/RB2ynqV)
20 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/sqkMQ6E)
21 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/wQFzO42)
22 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/EIrzWpR)
23 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/RlRWlwp)
24 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/4tAae6x)
25 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/lrPK4Vn)
26 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/atdAUA6)
27 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/8d7L8IF)
28 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/a8okxBM)
29 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/qDJafLz)
30 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/JBHvh9I)
31 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/4tRlKxT)
32 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/tMaLxD7)
33 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/HLfigh8)
34 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/sefjjXh)
35 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/CEe151t)
36 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/zWVh5ZQ)
37 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/hLmJfDh)
38 - I forgor
39 - Feat (https://imgur.com/a/vRHs5AX)

References:

1 - Moon Knight (1980) - #1
2 - Moon Knight (1980) - #2
3 - Moon Knight (1980) - #9
4 - Moon Knight: Fist of Khonshu - #5
5 - Moon Knight: Fist of Khonshu - #6
6 - Moon Knight: Fist of Khonshu - #6
7 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #1
8 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #4
9 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #25
10 - Null
11 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #31
12 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #36
13 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - Annual #1
14 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #54
15 - Marc Spector: Moon Knight - #55
16 - Moon Knight (1998) - #2
17 - Moon Knight (1998) - #2
18 - Moon Knight (1998) - #4
19 - Moon Knight (1999) - #1
20 - Moon Knight (1999) - #2
21 - Moon Knight (2006) - #1
22 - Moon Knight (2006) - #14
23 - Moon Knight (2006) - #20
24 - Moon Knight (2006) - #22
25 - Moon Knight: Silent Knight
26 - Moon Knight (2006) - #27
27 - Moon Knight (2006) - #30
28 - Shadowland: Moon Knight - #1
29 - Heroes for Hire (2011) - #1
30 - Secret Avengers - #10
31 - Moon Knight (2011) - #5
32 - Secret Avengers - #16
33 - Hero for Hire (2011) - #12
34 - Moon Knight (2011) - #8
35 - Moon Knight (2014) - #1
36 - Moon Knight (2014) - #5
37 - Moon Knight (2016) - #195
38 -Null
39 - Moon Knight (2021) - #4

Spoiler: Daredevil

Daredevil

• Feat 1 (Man Without Fear Issue 5)
• Feat 2 (Man Without Fear Issue 5)
• Feat 3 (Daredevil Vol 2 Issue 103)
• Feat 4 (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 1)
• Feat 5 (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 20)
• Feat 6 (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 20)
• Feat 7 (Multiple bullets) (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 20)
• Feat 8 (Multiple bullets) (Daredevil Reborn Issue 4)
• Feat 9 (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 32)
• Feat 10 (Daredevil & Captain America: Dead On Arrival)
• Feat 11
• Feat 12
• Feat 13
• Feat 14 (Daredevil Reborn Issue 2)
• Blocks an arrow at close range

I think I can gather more.

Feel free to calculate whatever you want here. Daredevil Feat 5 was already calculated though. Give a try to Feat 7.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I'll always update the list with calculations we already have.

• Daredevil blocks a bullet (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue 20). Mach 3.7 to Mach 4.5 (Supersonic+) EVALUATED
• Blade's FTE feats (Blade Vol 4 Issue 3 and Blade: Vampire Hunter Vol 1 Issue 3). 215.10525 m/s and 351.7125 m/s (Subsonic+ and Transonic) EVALUATED
• Elektra blocks a bullet (Daredevil Vol 6 Issue ?). Mach 2.39, (Supersonic) EVALUATED

 

[M3X_2.0]

@Antvasima do you know if we can use feats from simulations? I know a few feats from Iron Fist from a simulation made from Osborn. Seems pretty realiable, he was even accounting for the % of success of Iron Fist against some characters.

 

[Armorchompy]

Depends on context but if it's reliable I think so

 

[M3X_2.0]

God bless Comic Vine.

They have a good Spider-Man respect thread with references.

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima do you know if we can use feats from simulations? I know a few feats from Iron Fist from a simulation made from Osborn. Seems pretty realiable, he was even accounting for the % of success of Iron Fist against some characters.

Depends on context but if it's reliable I think so

Agreed.