• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Asta begins his martial artist training

Nierre said:
Why would anti magic even interfere with vibrations in the first place? Has it done something like that before?
Click to expand...

The argument is that Garou will hit Asta’s sword with RASRF and Asta’s bones will break because the shockwaves will somehow move from the sword to Asta’s body when that’s literally not how the attack is supposed to work (Garou is supposed to hit Asta’s body). Kachon even said it turns anything to dust so will it turn Asta’s Anti magic reinforced sword to dust? Not to mention Anti Magic is pure condensed energy so i asked how shockwaves even form on it? And their argument is “why wouldn’t it” when they literally made the claim it would.
 
We can’t just go and start claiming shit outside of what the attack has shown. It literally states that Garou must touch the body, why are we making all these extrapolations off this simple fact.

Shockwaves travel through the ground and air, and yet Bomb and Bang (who are literally standing on the same grounds and breathing the same air) were literally fine. How the **** are you going to tell me that it’s going to bypass Asta’s swords and envelope Asta when that’s literally not how the attack is described to work
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
We can’t just go and start claiming shit outside of what the attack has shown. It literally states that Garou must touch the body, why are we making all these extrapolations off this simple fact.

Shockwaves travel through the ground and air, and yet Bomb and Bang (who are literally standing on the same grounds and breathing the same air) were literally fine. How the **** are you going to tell me that it’s going to bypass Asta’s swords and envelope Asta when that’s literally not how the attack is described to work
Click to expand...
Bang literally states that how the damage from shockwaves was starting to accumulate. And Bomb being fine is most likely a plot hole considering the nearby rocks are reduced to dust
 
who cares about what it states, when we literally see the byproduct of the shockwaves reducing nearby rocks to dust
 
Tural2004 said:
Bang literally states that how the damage from shockwaves was starting to accumulate. And Bomb being fine is most likely a plot hole considering the nearby rocks are reduced to dust
Click to expand...

Yes Bang made that statement in reference to the Exploding Hearts Release Fist. He said that because he has been taking EHRF attacks (guess what it didn’t turn him to dust or is that a “plot hole” to?). Obviously if you take the attacks the shockwave will accumulate.

Bomb being fine is not a plot hole. It’s you denying the fact of how the WSCR-RASRF is supposed to work.


Nierre said:
who cares about what it states, when we literally see the byproduct of the shockwaves reducing nearby rocks to dust
Click to expand...

It’s to reinforce the statement.. it’s to show why the WSCR-RASRF is a dangerous attack. It has nothing to do with how the attack is supposed to work. The byproduct of the attack is simply harmless.


azontr said:
@LIFE_OF_KING reorganize the votes you dorkmuffin.

Me, @Nierre and @Epiccheev voted incon.
Click to expand...

I guess you can add me to Incon to get this over with. Smh.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Yes Bang made that statement in reference to the Exploding Hearts Release Fist
Click to expand...
Yeap, you are right. I probably confused them. But those shockwaves too can be used against Asta anyway
Arnoldstone18 said:
Bomb being fine is not a plot hole. It’s you denying the fact of how the WSCR-RASRF is supposed to work.
Click to expand...
I also mentioned how debris was turning into powder because of shockwaves. And as mentioned above, the hit from the attack spreads similar to what it did against Elder Centipede. Bang is a whole different case considering his whole deal is deflecting. Otherwise, he was grazed more than once during the brief exchange
 
Gonna be totally straight and sag that Arnold has a bit of a point in that for Garou’s attack to seemingly permeate throughout the body it needs to make some kind of physical contact before it permeates through the body.

I will say Garou’s Fa Jin would work like Nierre or Kachon says it would because that actually has feats of the shockwaves literally traveling through the entirety of the planet and pushed an entire continent from the other side of the earth. But since Garou doesn’t have fa Jin in this key as of yet, I’d say the regular RASRF needs some kind of physical contact for the shockwaves to envelop the body.

Though I don’t think that necessarily changes much for the match imo because even if Garou needs some kind of physical contact he only needs so much as a graze to win the fight which I think he can easily achieve especially when taking into consideration his other notable advantages.
 
Tural2004 said:
But those shockwaves too can be used against Asta anyway
Click to expand...

Yeah if they land on his body because Asta's reinforced sword can take it.

Tural2004 said:
I also mentioned how debris was turning into powder because of shockwaves. And as mentioned above, the hit from the attack spreads similar to what it did against Elder Centipede. Bang is a whole different case considering his whole deal is deflecting.
Click to expand...

The shockwave wouldn't have been all over Elder Centipede if Bang and Bomb hadn't hit its entire body first. And the punch would actually have to hit the body directly and not indirectly through anything else (like the air, the ground, or Asta's anti-magic reinforced swords) because the byproduct is harmless. Bomb and Bang would've died if the shockwave could spread from one thing to the next. It's just the way it is, let's not speculate.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Yeah if they land on his body because Asta's reinforced sword can take it.
Click to expand...
Swords don't really negate shockwaves.
Arnoldstone18 said:
Yeah if they land on his body because Asta's reinforced sword can take it.



The shockwave wouldn't have been all over Elder Centipede if Bang and Bomb hadn't hit its entire body first. And the punch would actually have to hit the body directly and not indirectly through anything else (like the air, the ground, or Asta's anti-magic reinforced swords) because the byproduct is harmless. Bomb and Bang would've died if the shockwave could spread from one thing to the next. It's just the way it is, let's not speculate.
Click to expand...
The very picture you posted shows that half of Elder Centipede isn't hit. Then they go on about how they were off guard but the shockwave spreads. If they indeed hit the whole body, what's the point of mentioning something like that?

And once again, shockwaves can travel through metal. It is not even about proving something. It is a real-life thing. Shockwaves are basically sound waves on streoids. Without specific counters, Asta can't prevent it
 
Last edited:
Arnoldstone18 said:
Yeah if they land on his body because Asta's reinforced sword can take it.

The shockwave wouldn't have been all over Elder Centipede if Bang and Bomb hadn't hit its entire body first. And the punch would actually have to hit the body directly and not indirectly through anything else (like the air, the ground, or Asta's anti-magic reinforced swords) because the byproduct is harmless. Bomb and Bang would've died if the shockwave could spread from one thing to the next. It's just the way it is, let's not speculate.
Click to expand...
Why are you lying? They are at most hitting half of Elder Centipede's body 😶, this is the full sequence:
073.png
074.png
075.png
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
And I am prepared to argue why I believe this isn't so.
Click to expand...
Well to (try) and avoid a big wall of text I’m just gonna list the advantages each party has and show why I think Garou wins.
  • Asta has a strength advantage of about 1.6x over Garou initially.
  • He’s more adept at blade work comparatively to Garou
  • He has better range
  • Potentially better precognition as well.
This I don’t think is enough to supersede the advantages Garou has over Asta or the counters he has which I will list out.
  • Garou has stat amps making the initial 1.6x gap less significant.
  • Garou has much better AD, able to go from being even in speed to someone to completely blitzing them within .0013 of a second. Getting better as each 1/10,000th of a second passes.
  • He has a lifting strength advantage which would allow him to potentially grab Asta’s sword without needing any harm to himself.
  • Garou has good regen making him able to last longer in the fight and take more hits comparatively to Asta with no lasting effects
  • To win the fight against Asta, he so much as simply needs to graze him
So to summarize:

Garou has a much easier time dealing with Asta. While the initial 1.6x may be troubling at first, Garou can overcome that gap by using his own stat amps. And whatever damage he does take can easily be regenerated. Garou’s AD is so busted here that within a 1/1,000th of a second within the fight, Garou would’ve already become fast enough to comfortably avoid all of Asta’s attacks with a speed advantage. His superior lifting strength entails he doesn’t need to take damage from Asta’s blades as he can simply catch them, even Asta’s small blades which he’s shown to do before. And with all of this all Garou needs is one single graze against Asta and he would win the fight.
 
Tural2004 said:
Swords don't really negate shockwaves.
Click to expand...

Never said they do. I said the shockwaves won't bypass the swords and then unto Asta. I also asked how the shockwaves would be generated on anti-magic energy and the only response was the equivalent of "why not?".


Tural2004 said:
The very picture you posted shows that half of Elder Centipede is unhit. Then they go on about how they were off guard but the shockwave spreads. If they indeed hit the whole body, what's the point of mentioning something like that?
Click to expand...

I feel like you're intentionally missing the point, anyway the attack still kept going after that panel till the monster caught them off guard.

Tural2004 said:
And once again, shockwaves can travel through metal. It is not even about proving something. It is a real life thing. Without spesific counters Asta can't prevent it
Click to expand...

Never said it doesn't travel through metal. Irl there are several intensities and behaviors of shockwaves so don't even try to appeal to reality with your superficial knowledge. So yeah, it had to be proven like Kachon already has with Platinum sperm (Although platinum sperm took many hits from Garou before turning to dust from a stronger Garou which further proves how inconsistent the shockwaves behavior is through different substances). The anti-magic swords are not fully made of metal, it is entirely covered with anti-magic and stretches with anti-magic energy. So prove it can generate on anti-magic surfaces.

Recon1511 said:
Why are you lying? They are at most hitting half of Elder Centipede's body 😶, this is the full sequence:
073.png
074.png
075.png
Click to expand...

Okay, I do not appreciate being called a liar especially when both of you are arbitrarily claiming it's more or less than half the body being hit based on 1 panel when you can literally see that bomb and bang are still attacking the ******* thing for the next 3 panels. The best conclusion is that they hit most, if not all of its body.
 
Last edited:
Okay, I am tired of replying to the same bullshit. Shockwaves behave differently when they propagate through certain mediums. Since this is fiction, you must use the manga to complete these tasks.

  • Prove shockwaves can occur on Anti Magic energy or pure energy in the first place.
  • Prove shockwaves can hit a target through indirect means without direct contact.

Do either of them without headcanon and claiming its anti-feats are plot holes. I'm moving on to @Maitreya
 
If anyone wants to change their vote to incon...
Specially since the match will probably be a stomp or a decisive win for asta in a few weeks.
 
Maitreya said:
Well to (try) and avoid a big wall of text I’m just gonna list the advantages each party has and show why I think Garou wins.
  • Asta has a strength advantage of about 1.6x over Garou initially.
  • He’s more adept at blade work comparatively to Garou
  • He has better range
  • Potentially better precognition as well.
Click to expand...

Let me copy paste and adjust this.

  • DU Asta is at most comparable to Base Ichika, who is stronger than Base Lucius, who is stronger than Complete Lucifero, who has the advantage of about 1.6x over Garou.
  • He’s more adept at blade work comparatively to Garou
  • He has a better range with Flight, Sword size manipulation, and ranged attacks.
  • Potentially better precognition as well.

Maitreya said:
This I don’t think is enough to supersede the advantages Garou has over Asta or the counters he has which I will list out.
  • Garou has stat amps making the initial 1.6x gap less significant.
  • Garou has much better AD, able to go from being even in speed to someone to completely blitzing them within .0013 of a second. Getting better as each 1/10,000th of a second passes.
  • He has a lifting strength advantage which would allow him to potentially grab Asta’s sword without needing any harm to himself.
  • Garou has good regen making him able to last longer in the fight and take more hits comparatively to Asta with no lasting effects
  • To win the fight against Asta, he so much as simply needs to graze him
Click to expand...


In addition to Asta's advantages above:

  • With PDU, Asta's timer is increased to 10 min and he becomes stronger to widen the 1.6x + upscale chain
  • Asta has damage reduction to widen the 1.6x + upscale chain gap
  • Asta can use two swords, especially when one of them is large enough to be a shield.
  • Sense manipulation to **** with Garou's sense-based analytical prediction
  • Asta's AD improves his skill and the abilities that come with it.

Maitreya said:
So to summarize:

Garou has a much easier time dealing with Asta. While the initial 1.6x may be troubling at first, Garou can overcome that gap by using his own stat amps. And whatever damage he does take can easily be regenerated. Garou’s AD is so busted here that within a 1/1,000th of a second within the fight, Garou would’ve already become fast enough to comfortably avoid all of Asta’s attacks with a speed advantage. His superior lifting strength entails he doesn’t need to take damage from Asta’s blades as he can simply catch them, even Asta’s small blades which he’s shown to do before. And with all of this all Garou needs is one single graze against Asta and he would win the fight.
Click to expand...

We can't really use timeframes since Asta fights at incredibly short time frames by being an FTL-MFTL+ character so technically his growth will also be at those timeframes. Anyway, AD doesn't matter for the following reason:

Since we were using fan calcs to determine how good each character's AD is and since they have reached their max for this key, we can't really use it as a wincon here.



In summary

We have both provided constructive arguments and given the number of variables to consider (especially on this stupid shockwave behavior)... we should all vote incon, if we aren't up to 7 votes already.


  • If both sides have equivalent posts with constructive arguments, the thread shall be deemed inconclusive.
    • Inconclusive matches, in which the opposing parties are incapable of defeating each other, should only added to profiles if they had a notable debate. A debate is considered notable, in this context, if it features a lengthy debate over an aspect not directly listed on profile. Examples of such are standard tactics (if not listed), ability mechanics and (unlisted) potency, interaction between abilities, weaknesses, verse equalization, potential methods to circumvent resistances and immortalities, potential learning or growth they could achieve in the timeframe of the fight, whether they could escape long enough for prep based abilities to come into play, etc.
Click to expand...


Time to take a break and read up on Dr. Stone so I can add it to the list of most knowledgeable verses.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
TLDR:
Click to expand...
Asta:
  • He’s 2x stronger
  • He’s better with a sword
  • He has damage reduction
  • He has better range
  • Maybe better precog
Garou
  • Has stat amps
  • Has great regen
  • Has way better AD
  • Has better lifting strength
  • Can one shot with a graze
Arnoldstone18 said:
We can't really use timeframes
Click to expand...
I just wanna make something really clear here. You can’t use timeframes because they come from fan calcs. I can use a timeframe because it comes from the manga. The numbers I said is from an actual timer presented in the manga.

Garou actually just went from being equal to someone in speed to blitzing them in .0013 of a second
Arnoldstone18 said:
In summary
Click to expand...
Pretty good matchup and good arguments.

Imma change to incon just to get this debate over with 🗿
 
So you all finally decided to vote

I think Garou wins like 6 out of 10, but Arnold won´t let me live in peace if I vote for him and Asta after learning Zetten and more is gonna be upgraded so

Inconclusive FRA, Megaman star force solo both
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

CloverDragon03
  • Locked
Black Clover: Immense Speed Downgrade
5 6 7
Replies
251
Views
21K
KingTempest
KingTempest
Arkenis
Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation
17 18 19
Replies
755
Views
48K
EL_xWatcher1234x
EL_xWatcher1234x
Back
Top