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Ninjago: Overlord's page revision

Overlord_Darkness

Overlord_Darkness

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So, with the release of the new season of Ninjago (specifically the Dragon Form episode), we learned the following:
1) The Overlord's physical forms (including the Crystal King) are simply his shells, avatars in the physical world that he controls. - Season 15 (16) episode 29 "Dragon Form"
2) Overlord is able to resurrect the dead (that's how he resurrected Harumi). - Season 15 (16) episode 13 "A Sinister Shadow"

With this thread, I'm trying to say that the Overlord in its purest form is not just the embodiment of the concept of evil. He IS the concept (Spirit, for interpretation) of evil. This is also confirmed by the fact that, unlike all other characters, the Overlord acts as a dark part of the BALANCE (a metaphysical force for all 17 worlds). [Said by the screenwriter on Twitter]

Also Overlord doesn't exist on the mortal plane of existence without vessels or shells. [Said in his official description on LEGO.com (2017 museum thing) and in second season a few times]. His plane of existence was shown in S.15, Ep.13 "A Sinister Shadow" as some sort of void. [That place wasn't a Departed Realm, cause Overlord, well, can't die]

So, I think we should replace the type of conceptual existence and add to his basic spirit form next things: beyond-dimensional existence (type 1), abilities that he showed in the series or those that were mentioned by the screenwriter on twitter (like resistance to fate manipulations, acausality type 1). And delete time manipulations in his GM form, cause of Word of God.
 
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I’ve been working on compiling some stuff for a while

that said, may I ask why removing time manipulation is being brought up here? I don’t see any wog that would imply it
 
Yobo_Blue said:
I’ve been working on compiling some stuff for a while

that said, may I ask why removing time manipulation is being brought up here? I don’t see any wog that would imply it
Click to expand...
I found Tommy's tweet in which he answers the question: did the Golden Master have an element of time?
quote: "I think he would have used it" (i can't find a tweet right now, bruh)

How about other stuff? Is it nice?
 
MrUnderlord said:
I found Tommy's tweet in which he answers the question: did the Golden Master have an element of time?
quote: "I think he would have used it" (i can't find a tweet right now, bruh)

How about other stuff? Is it nice?
Click to expand...
Everything else is nice, I just scratch my head cause it’s explicitly said in show that the Golden Master had the powers of FSM, and FSM mastered time explicitly

considering that time as an element hadn’t been created by the writing team, I feel like we can chalk that up to more just the growth of the series, especially since Tommy even says the things explicitly revealed in the show take precedence over what he says on twitter

but yes everything else is correct, it’s pretty clearly shown that the overlord is more of a conceptual being, what with him being said to be evil itself, being part of the balance, only being able to work through physical shells and vessels, being able to take control of certain things

i also think the overlord and FSM should be 2-C, as it’s pretty clear in the Dark Island Trilogy that both the natural power of Dark Matter and the power that Clouse gained from it would destroy or corrupt the multiverse down to the balance governing the realms themselves, and Crystalized confirms this was the Overlord’s ultimate goal, with the power of the First Spinjitzu Master being actively preventing that

However, this would probably be peak Overlord and FSM as the only people who scale to this, as young/child FSM was only strong enough to create the islands of Ninjago, and lost to Wojira, who is around High 6-A to 5-C, since she controls the ocean of the world and potentially created the moon according to Way of the Departed

so imo, now that the lore for the main series is more or less complete, I’d probably put USM Lloyd and Dragon Form Overlord as High 6-A, since Lloyd at that point has the power of the Golden Weapons within him rather than his full Oni/Dragon power, and the Overlord’s power is limited by his physical shell, which at that time was Garmadon

So God-Tiers would be Adult FSM and Full Power Overlord, who are 2-C, High Tiers would be Wojira, Dragon/Golden/Crystal Overlord, Ocean Power Nya, and USM Lloyd at High 6-A, and everyone else is 8-A
 
Yobo_Blue said:
Everything else is nice, I just scratch my head cause it’s explicitly said in show that the Golden Master had the powers of FSM, and FSM mastered time explicitly

considering that time as an element hadn’t been created by the writing team, I feel like we can chalk that up to more just the growth of the series, especially since Tommy even says the things explicitly revealed in the show take precedence over what he says on twitter

but yes everything else is correct, it’s pretty clearly shown that the overlord is more of a conceptual being, what with him being said to be evil itself, being part of the balance, only being able to work through physical shells and vessels, being able to take control of certain things

i also think the overlord and FSM should be 2-C, as it’s pretty clear in the Dark Island Trilogy that both the natural power of Dark Matter and the power that Clouse gained from it would destroy or corrupt the multiverse down to the balance governing the realms themselves, and Crystalized confirms this was the Overlord’s ultimate goal, with the power of the First Spinjitzu Master being actively preventing that

However, this would probably be peak Overlord and FSM as the only people who scale to this, as young/child FSM was only strong enough to create the islands of Ninjago, and lost to Wojira, who is around High 6-A to 5-C, since she controls the ocean of the world and potentially created the moon according to Way of the Departed

so imo, now that the lore for the main series is more or less complete, I’d probably put USM Lloyd and Dragon Form Overlord as High 6-A, since Lloyd at that point has the power of the Golden Weapons within him rather than his full Oni/Dragon power, and the Overlord’s power is limited by his physical shell, which at that time was Garmadon

So God-Tiers would be Adult FSM and Full Power Overlord, who are 2-C, High Tiers would be Wojira, Dragon/Golden/Crystal Overlord, Ocean Power Nya, and USM Lloyd at High 6-A, and everyone else is 8-A
Click to expand...
About a time manip thing: that was some sort of retcon, cause, well, FSM have time manip -> Overlord have powers of FSM (i remind you, that was 2014) -> Hands of Time was released in 2017. In short, this is the explanation for why the Overlord just didn't use the time to defeat the Ninjas.

About tier: Overlord planned to corrupt all 17 worlds with Golden Power (16 worlds relative to Ninjago). In peak form, this is obviously a low multiverse level. FSM is also a low multiverse, until the creators show something more worthwhile. Overlord with right vessel also have 2-C, cause, well, this thing literally corrupts souls and anything else it touches. It even can corrupt Creation, lmao. Overlord and his darkness - it's an abstract force, that "feasts on creation". He is not part of Creation (17 realms also called "Realms of Creation" in March of the Oni), he's something more - directly abstract evil. And he also mentioned, that powers of Garmadon "were a gift from him". It can be a reference to the fact that the Overlord is also responsible for Destruction, as a manifestation of evil. Or else that the Darkness has so strengthened Garmadon that even the original Oni are afraid of him.

Yea, I completely agree with how you distributed the power level for the Overlord forms (but I will still note that, despite the 6th level, the Overlord had very specific abilities: in the form of a Dragon, the Overlord had spatial manipulation inside Absolute Darkness; in the form of a Golden Master, the Overlord has limited manipulation of reality; in The Crystal King's form, Overlord... Didn't show anything worthwhile at all. Just corrupted the city. This form should be set to level 7-B or 7-B+

Now, can I now write down the abilities listed in the post into its basic spirit form? @Antvasima
 
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Yobo_Blue said:
Everything else is nice, I just scratch my head cause it’s explicitly said in show that the Golden Master had the powers of FSM, and FSM mastered time explicitly

considering that time as an element hadn’t been created by the writing team, I feel like we can chalk that up to more just the growth of the series, especially since Tommy even says the things explicitly revealed in the show take precedence over what he says on twitter

but yes everything else is correct, it’s pretty clearly shown that the overlord is more of a conceptual being, what with him being said to be evil itself, being part of the balance, only being able to work through physical shells and vessels, being able to take control of certain things

i also think the overlord and FSM should be 2-C, as it’s pretty clear in the Dark Island Trilogy that both the natural power of Dark Matter and the power that Clouse gained from it would destroy or corrupt the multiverse down to the balance governing the realms themselves, and Crystalized confirms this was the Overlord’s ultimate goal, with the power of the First Spinjitzu Master being actively preventing that

However, this would probably be peak Overlord and FSM as the only people who scale to this, as young/child FSM was only strong enough to create the islands of Ninjago, and lost to Wojira, who is around High 6-A to 5-C, since she controls the ocean of the world and potentially created the moon according to Way of the Departed

so imo, now that the lore for the main series is more or less complete, I’d probably put USM Lloyd and Dragon Form Overlord as High 6-A, since Lloyd at that point has the power of the Golden Weapons within him rather than his full Oni/Dragon power, and the Overlord’s power is limited by his physical shell, which at that time was Garmadon

So God-Tiers would be Adult FSM and Full Power Overlord, who are 2-C, High Tiers would be Wojira, Dragon/Golden/Crystal Overlord, Ocean Power Nya, and USM Lloyd at High 6-A, and everyone else is 8-A
Click to expand...
What tier do you think the ice emperor would be since he froze the entirety of the never-realm?
 
MrUnderlord said:
About a time manip thing: that was some sort of retcon, cause, well, FSM have time manip -> Overlord have powers of FSM (i remind you, that was 2014) -> Hands of Time was released in 2017. In short, this is the explanation for why the Overlord just didn't use the time to defeat the Ninjas.

About tier: Overlord planned to corrupt all 17 worlds with Golden Power (16 worlds relative to Ninjago). In peak form, this is obviously a low multiverse level. FSM is also a low multiverse, until the creators show something more worthwhile. Overlord with right vessel also have 2-C, cause, well, this thing literally corrupts souls and anything else it touches. It even can corrupt Creation, lmao. Overlord and his darkness - it's an abstract force, that "feasts on creation". He is not part of Creation (17 realms also called "Realms of Creation" in March of the Oni), he's something more - directly abstract evil. And he also mentioned, that powers of Garmadon "were a gift from him". It can be a reference to the fact that the Overlord is also responsible for Destruction, as a manifestation of evil. Or else that the Darkness has so strengthened Garmadon that even the original Oni are afraid of him.

Now, can I now write down the abilities listed in the post into its basic spirit form? @Antvasima
Click to expand...
Indeed, but my point is later retcons take precedence here over Tommy’s words, as he himself has stated. So, according to the retcon in modern day, The Overlord would have had time

it also wouldn’t have worked as it’s explicit that the Stone Army armor gave resistance to all the powers of the First Spinjitzu Master anyway, so it wouldn’t even really need to be explained

in any case now that the show is complete I plan on drawing up a Golden Power Page, so hold off on revisions until then for now
 
Yobo_Blue said:
Indeed, but my point is later retcons take precedence here over Tommy’s words, as he himself has stated. So, according to the retcon in modern day, The Overlord would have had time

it also wouldn’t have worked as it’s explicit that the Stone Army armor gave resistance to all the powers of the First Spinjitzu Master anyway, so it wouldn’t even really need to be explained

in any case now that the show is complete I plan on drawing up a Golden Power Page, so hold off on revisions until then for now
Click to expand...
Sooooo... As soon as you make the Golden Power page, after which I can make the changes discussed in this thread to the Overlord page?
 
MrUnderlord said:
Sooooo... As soon as you make the Golden Power page, after which I can make the changes discussed in this thread to the Overlord page?
Click to expand...
Course, though this may be the time to start doing a verse wide revision. If you want, I can try and set something up on discord and we can try and pull the stuff together
 
Yobo_Blue said:
Course, though this may be the time to start doing a verse wide revision. If you want, I can try and set something up on discord and we can try and pull the stuff together
Click to expand...
I would be very grateful if we could join forces and update the verse. So, yea, why not?
 
Yobo_Blue said:
Everything else is nice, I just scratch my head cause it’s explicitly said in show that the Golden Master had the powers of FSM, and FSM mastered time explicitly

considering that time as an element hadn’t been created by the writing team, I feel like we can chalk that up to more just the growth of the series, especially since Tommy even says the things explicitly revealed in the show take precedence over what he says on twitter

but yes everything else is correct, it’s pretty clearly shown that the overlord is more of a conceptual being, what with him being said to be evil itself, being part of the balance, only being able to work through physical shells and vessels, being able to take control of certain things

i also think the overlord and FSM should be 2-C, as it’s pretty clear in the Dark Island Trilogy that both the natural power of Dark Matter and the power that Clouse gained from it would destroy or corrupt the multiverse down to the balance governing the realms themselves, and Crystalized confirms this was the Overlord’s ultimate goal, with the power of the First Spinjitzu Master being actively preventing that

However, this would probably be peak Overlord and FSM as the only people who scale to this, as young/child FSM was only strong enough to create the islands of Ninjago, and lost to Wojira, who is around High 6-A to 5-C, since she controls the ocean of the world and potentially created the moon according to Way of the Departed

so imo, now that the lore for the main series is more or less complete, I’d probably put USM Lloyd and Dragon Form Overlord as High 6-A, since Lloyd at that point has the power of the Golden Weapons within him rather than his full Oni/Dragon power, and the Overlord’s power is limited by his physical shell, which at that time was Garmadon

So God-Tiers would be Adult FSM and Full Power Overlord, who are 2-C, High Tiers would be Wojira, Dragon/Golden/Crystal Overlord, Ocean Power Nya, and USM Lloyd at High 6-A, and everyone else is 8-A
Click to expand...
I agree with the argument
 
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Well, this revision thread does not seem controversial, so I suppose that you can probably do so in this particular case.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, this revision thread does not seem controversial, so I suppose that you can probably do so in this particular case.
Click to expand...
I have done some of the work, but the final part requires a revision of the tier for FSM and Lloyd USM. So as soon as @Yobo_Blue updates the profiles of the above characters, I'll also be done with Attack Potency (although I don't know if it's worth changing this section, to be honest)
 
MrUnderlord said:
I have done some of the work, but the final part requires a revision of the tier for FSM and Lloyd USM. So as soon as @Yobo_Blue updates the profiles of the above characters, I'll also be done with Attack Potency (although I don't know if it's worth changing this section, to be honest)
Click to expand...
Okay. That seems good then.

@Yobo_Blue

When do you think that you will have the time to finish this revision?
 
Okay. Then you should remove your entry in that page.
 
There was such a question: in Ninjago there are dimensions (17 realms of Creation). These dimensions are located in a certain inter-dimensional space, which is called the Ethereal Divide.


The Overlord exists literally beyond this (The void presented to us is something that is not a realm, since it was said that the Overlord exists outside the plane of existence of mortals, and all 17 realms are inhabited exclusively by mortals [The Overlord is the only truly immortal character in the series], and his void presented to us is clearly not part of the Ethereal Divide, because they were shown completely differently), so the question arises: can we assume that the Overlord has a Nonexistent Physiology? And if so, what type? Or how can it be described at all?
 
If you mean type 1, he would have that by default due to not existing in the physical plane, and the void stuff wouldn’t give type 2 or 3
 
Yobo_Blue said:
If you mean type 1, he would have that by default due to not existing in the physical plane, and the void stuff wouldn’t give type 2 or 3
Click to expand...
I mean that Emptiness in this case can act not just as a kind of space, but emptiness in the truest sense of the word is literally non-existence (given that we have an Ethereal Divide, which acts as a higher dimension relative to the 17 worlds, and emptiness beyond it). And, I think, if we can consider the existence of an Overlord in it (and we can consider it), then it may have not just type 1, but type 2, since it exists literally in non-existence

We need another users here I think
@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Elizhaa @Sans2345 @TheGreatMaster12
 
Unfortunately that’s too much of a stretch to work within wiki parameters, since you’d need a lot of explicit confirmatio. Not only do we not have that, but we have nothing to indicate any qualities of the Etheral Divide other than the fact it is the void between the realms, it has no information besides that and nothing connecting it to the overlord

furthermore type 2 would contradict his abstract existence because it would imply conceptual nonexistence, while the overlord is a very specific concept, which specifically will be generated into existence if it were to somehow not exist
 
Yobo_Blue said:
Unfortunately that’s too much of a stretch to work within wiki parameters, since you’d need a lot of explicit confirmatio. Not only do we not have that, but we have nothing to indicate any qualities of the Etheral Divide other than the fact it is the void between the realms, it has no information besides that and nothing connecting it to the overlord

furthermore type 2 would contradict his abstract existence because it would imply conceptual nonexistence, while the overlord is a very specific concept, which specifically will be generated into existence if it were to somehow not exist
Click to expand...
I think we need more information about what the Void that we saw in the episode is

As for Ethereal Divide, we can confidently say that it is something that contains 17 space-time continuums within itself, and also, at least, conceptually surpasses these 17 worlds (since Ethereal Divide is either a higher dimension with its own timeline, or is something like the emptiness between the worlds [which already denies the very idea of space and time in it])
 
Yobo_Blue said:
I mean, i appreciate the effort, but wiki standards tended to require exploit information from this sort of thing
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, Ninjago misses too much information about such things. So, I think at this point in time we will omit this topic (until we get more information about the Overlord's Void and Ethereal Divide).

For Nonexistente Type 1: we can place it on his page?
 
Antvasima said:
@Yobo_Blue

What are the conclusions here so far?
Click to expand...
I think we can add Nonexistente type 1 and then this thread can be closed. We have gone through the entire history of the Overlord and all his abilities ever shown and mentioned. If there is ever new information about his abilities (which I doubt), then I'll just start another thread.
 
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