Close-Range Tourney Match 3: Ellie vs Phase Spider

[Naito-desu]

Ellie vs Phase Spider

• 5 meters apart, Speeds equalized, standard equipment given (guns and long-range equipment restricted for Ellie)
• SBA otherwise

14-20 Megajoules vs 8 megajoules respectively

 

[Tllmbrg]

So Ellie has the stat edge with around x2 AP/Durability and a vast LS difference
But on the other hand she has nothing against the Phase Spider's poison so if it lands a single bite it's a sealed deal it seems

And since it has all that phasing in and out of reality and stealth mastery to boot I think it should manage to land that hit easily
So yah voting Phase Spider

 

[ElajRuengies]

So, what's stopping Ellie from just immediately BFRing the Spider with The Force?

(How to Henry Stickmin match up mechanics even work?)

EDIT: Ah, Stealth Mastery does I guess.

Yeah, I don't see how Ellie can win this when the spider can [Teleports Behind You] "Nuthin' personnel kid."

Phase Spider FRA

 

[Cimafranca133]

So Ellie has the stat edge with around x2 AP/Durability and a vast LS difference
But on the other hand she has nothing against the Phase Spider's poison so if it lands a single bite it's a sealed deal it seems

And since it has all that phasing in and out of reality and stealth mastery to boot I think it should manage to land that hit easily
So yah voting Phase Spider

So, what's stopping Ellie from just immediately BFRing the Spider with The Force?

(How to Henry Stickmin match up mechanics even work?)

EDIT: Ah, Stealth Mastery does I guess.

Yeah, I don't see how Ellie can win this when the spider can [Teleports Behind You] "Nuthin' personnel kid."

Phase Spider FRA

Phase Spider FRA, i guess

 

[ElajRuengies]

(Although with that said, if its Standard Battle Assumptions then it takes place in Central Park, not like a cave or something so its gonna be a bit mord visible but that ultimately doesn't affect much I think)

 

[DrGreyman]

ok, i think it's a bit early to be saying who wins, there has barely been any debating.
the poison bite is a big factor of the spider here, and I just don't think that it will instantly incap ellie.
yes, the spider has stealth mastery, but so does ellie, and it will have to phase in if it wants to attack. that will leave an opening for ellie to strike.
on its page, it says that the spider is not as intelligent as a human, while ellie has been shown to be very battle savvy and just regularly smart.

 

[ElajRuengies]

ok, i think it's a bit early to be saying who wins, there has barely been any debating.
the poison bite is a big factor of the spider here, and I just don't think that it will instantly incap ellie.
yes, the spider has stealth mastery, but so does ellie, and it will have to phase in if it wants to attack. that will leave an opening for ellie to strike.
on its page, it says that the spider is not as intelligent as a human, while ellie has been shown to be very battle savvy and just regularly smart.

Fair enough- with Ellie scaling to 20.7 Megajoules from Henry's durability calc (it's the one underneath the calc I linked), that's like a 2.5x AP difference from the Phase Spider.

True Ellie's screwed if she gets bit (it looks like Paralysis-style poison from the description), but the Phase Spider can't afford to take that many hits either.

How immediate/instantaneous the "phasing" itself is will be the deciding factor here

 

[DrGreyman]

well, according to the description on its page, it says if the poison reduces the target to 0 hp, they get paralyzed while stable. it doesn't say that they are paralyzed as soon as they are bitten

 

[Tllmbrg]

The bite still does poison damage which Ellie does not resist it all
The poison would just incap her when she reaches her threshold, which like it's poison which she does not resist

Also phasing in and out for attacks is their main form of combat so it will just go for that first thing

 

[DrGreyman]

but that's just it, it's a threshold. Ellie doesn't resist the poison, but it probably wont oneshot her.

 

[Tllmbrg]

So a few more bites, she can't really stop it from doing hit and run tactics via its dimensional hopping which it will use.

I would also like to note that D&D monsters can keep fighting after being grievously injured so even if she gets a lucky shot in it could keep going
Thing is smarter then your average animal, not human level but smart enough to use its powers well

 

[ElajRuengies]

So basically this depends on if Ellie's 2.5x AP advantage will let her kill the spider, hitting it as it phases back in to bite her, before the poison can screw her over

 

[Tllmbrg]

I mean one shots rn is 7.5x (Might become an even larger gap) and it can keep fighting even after losing limbs so....

 

[DrGreyman]

doing a hit and run is hard when you have to sink your fangs into the target and injecting poison. ellie is by no means slow, and wont be relying on lucky shots. if speed is equalized, ellie is hitting the spider almost every time the spider is hitting her, and then the ap advantage does the rest

 

[Tllmbrg]

Idk what to tell you man
It can do this sort of things against groups of adventurers who are equal to it speed wise, I don't think it should have too hard of a time to bite her a few times while using its ability to **** off and not let her get in meaningful hits in

 

[DrGreyman]

why is noone listed as the ellie supporter?

 

[DrGreyman]

oi @Psychomaster35
come help?

 

[ElajRuengies]

oi @Psychomaster35
come help?

I don't think regular people can @ others

 

[Tllmbrg]

@Psychomaster35

 

[ElajRuengies]

Possibly Stupid question but, can Ellie even be bitten by the Phase Spider anywhere but her hands, feet, and head?

Her body and limbs are literally narrower than the gap between its fangs

 

[Tllmbrg]

It could angle the mouth to be on the line ig?
Idk how we treat their body in a match

 

[SamanPatou]

Just a note that restricting Ellie's guns means the match can't be added to their files.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Yeah, their stickfigure-like bodies have been proven as a canon anatomy, so as such, that just makes the spider attempting to bite her even harder ‘less it’s the head.

And as for the fight, it might be true that one bite from the spider means Ellie is done for, but as I mentioned earlier, it will have a hard time trying to sink its giant fangs against Ellie’s stick-like body. And given the spider‘s appearance as well as the fact that it is still an animal, Ellie would be smart enough to know not to get in front of it. She does have wings which she could use to fly up and potentially over it and attack it from behind to taze it with a taser or stab it with a knife.

On top of this, she has the LS advantage which is useful for holding it back from biting her.

 

[Tllmbrg]

And as for the fight, it might be true that one bite from the spider means Ellie is done for, but as I mentioned earlier, it will have a hard time trying to sink its giant fangs against Ellie’s stick-like body. And given the spider‘s appearance as well as the fact that it is still an animal, Ellie would be smart enough to know not to get in front of it. She does have wings which she could use to fly up and potentially over it and attack it from behind to taze it with a taser or stab it with a knife.

On top of this, she has the LS advantage which is useful for holding it back from biting her.

She has her head, it's a decently large enough target for it to aim for.
Also how does flight allow her to flank something that can phase in and out of reality, she can't use range against it so unless she somehow sneaks on it I doubt that's happening
The phasing also counters any grapple attempts from her so

I just think it's more likely for the spider to finish her off with its bites then her merking it

 

[DrGreyman]

just to clarify, how large is the spider?

 

[SamanPatou]

Horse-sized

 

[DrGreyman]

ok, if it's that big then it will just be harder for the spider to hit ellie than for ellie to hit the spider. given how she is physically smaller and stick thin, plus the spider has to bite her in the head specifically vs she just has to hit or slash any part of the spider

 

[Tllmbrg]

Okay cool, that doesn't change the fact it only needs a few solid hits to put her down and with it's phasing out reality it will have a much easier time

 

[DrGreyman]

but the spider has to unphase to attack right? that means that a horse sized arachnid will pop out of thin air. ellie isn't stupid enough to not react to that

 

[DrGreyman]

and she needs less total hits to take them down because of the 2x ap difference.

 

[DrGreyman]

any more arguments?

 

[Cimafranca133]

Yeah, their stickfigure-like bodies have been proven as a canon anatomy, so as such, that just makes the spider attempting to bite her even harder ‘less it’s the head.

And as for the fight, it might be true that one bite from the spider means Ellie is done for, but as I mentioned earlier, it will have a hard time trying to sink its giant fangs against Ellie’s stick-like body. And given the spider‘s appearance as well as the fact that it is still an animal, Ellie would be smart enough to know not to get in front of it. She does have wings which she could use to fly up and potentially over it and attack it from behind to taze it with a taser or stab it with a knife.

On top of this, she has the LS advantage which is useful for holding it back from biting her.

ok, if it's that big then it will just be harder for the spider to hit ellie than for ellie to hit the spider. given how she is physically smaller and stick thin, plus the spider has to bite her in the head specifically vs she just has to hit or slash any part of the spider

but the spider has to unphase to attack right? that means that a horse sized arachnid will pop out of thin air. ellie isn't stupid enough to not react to that

I'll change my vote to Ellie FRA, i guess

 

[DrGreyman]

if there are no more arguments,
ellie FRA

 

[Psychomaster35]

Ellie FRA. Given the human head is pretty small (About a foot) and the fact the spider is still an animal, it's most likely not going to try to aim for the head and will go for her other body parts which are stick-like and therefore not even hit.

 

[Tllmbrg]

...if she looks stick like to it why would it not aim for the bigger target in her?

 

[Psychomaster35]

...if she looks stick like to it why would it not aim for the bigger target in her?

Because it's still an animal. They're not very constant at what part they attack.

 

[Tllmbrg]

A. It's not even animal level intelligence it's above that
B. The concept of "Aim for the largest spot I can see" is not even something beyond an animal's grasp, hunters like lions go only for a target's neck because they know it's a weak spot so I really don't know why the spider would aim for a place it can barely see

 

[Psychomaster35]

It's not even animal level intelligence it's above that

Even Below Average intelligent animals like Dogs are still less intelligent than humans, so they won't always go for the head first. They try attacking other parts until they are weakened/subdued so they can bite the head.

The concept of "Aim for the largest spot I can see" is not even something beyond an animal's grasp, hunters like lions go only for a target's neck because they know it's a weak spot so I really don't know why the spider would aim for a place it can barely see

Then wouldn't the spider go for the neck instead? And the neck is also a stick.

 

[Tllmbrg]

It literally can't see what part is the neck
I don't think it's wild assuming when you see literal sticks with a head you'd go for the head by that point, like do you think the spider is dumb enough to try and go a far smaller target when its main combat method is hit and run tactics?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Given the circumstances of SBA, the fight is in the daytime, so the spider can pretty much see the rest of her body and not just the head, so it will still go for the neck and not her head.