Question Regarding One Piece Scaling

[CinCameron20]

Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding this correctly:

Doflamingo is scaling to 6-C with his physical strikes, and Kin'emon is scaling to 6-A durability from being taking hits via Kaido (and other 6-A characters).

There is a clear panel of Doflamingo wounding Kin'emon with a kick, so either there is a key missing, or this is overlooked.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding this correctly:

Doflamingo is scaling to 6-C with his physical strikes, and Kin'emon is scaling to 6-A durability from being taking hits via Kaido (and other 6-A characters).

There is a clear panel of Doflamingo wounding Kin'emon with a kick, so either there is a key missing, or this is overlooked.

Kin'emon can harm the dude that one shot a much stronger version of G4 Luffy than the one who dogged Doflamingo. This is just an outlier because Oda probably didn't plan for power creep.

 

[CinCameron20]

Kin'emon can harm the dude that one shot a much stronger version of G4 Luffy than the one who dogged Doflamingo. This is just an outlier because Oda probably didn't plan for power creep.

The fight between Doflamingo and G4 Luffy was not one-sided, but unfortunately we never get to see more than a few panels of Bound-Man Luffy fighting before it simply goes off-panel for an extended period of time (before Wano, anyways).

Isn't Kaido's Thunder Bagua stronger than his normal attacks for using Haoshoku coating anyways? Pretty sure we saw Kin'emon taken out when being hit by a similar attack.

Edit: I also thought they put emphasis on Ryuo being a major contributor for being able to harm Kaido (outside of other methods we see in the later fights)

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

The fight between Doflamingo and G4 Luffy was not one-sided, but unfortunately we never get to see more than a few panels of Bound-Man Luffy fighting before it simply goes off-panel for an extended period of time (before Wano, anyways).

Isn't Kaido's Thunder Bagua stronger than his normal attacks for using Haoshoku coating anyways? Pretty sure we saw Kin'emon taken out when being hit by a similar attack.

Edit: I also thought they put emphasis on Ryuo being a major contributor for being able to harm Kaido (outside of other methods we see in the later fights)

Kaidou’s first Thunder Bagua on Luffy had no Hao Infusion at all, the black lightning from the strike is not the same as Hao Lightning

Trying to scale Doffy to Kaidou at all is just not supported in any regard

 

[CinCameron20]

Also, I'm seeing that Doflamingo's AP/Dura comes from the strings cutting the meteorite into several pieces, but I thought we had a previous discussion about this (or at least how the meteor wasn't cut 6/7 times).

First, we're looking at the largest meteorite, yet scaling based on the front-most one, which is wrong. We only see the front meteorite being cut into 7 pieces (which is way smaller than the largest scaled to 6-A). The very next page shows it in more pieces. Even if we disregard the chunks overhead (presumably another meteorite), there are more pieces visible on-panel and large chunks of the meteor are missing. There are about 12-14 pieces we see in that last page, ignoring the 2 overhead.

The larger meteorite (since it covers more horizontal space than the forward-most meteor) would have been cut into more pieces. And since we don't see any mention of the cage being damaged in any way, this would have to be the case, no?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The fight between Doflamingo and G4 Luffy was not one-sided, but unfortunately we never get to see more than a few panels of Bound-Man Luffy fighting before it simply goes off-panel for an extended period of time (before Wano, anyways).

The fight was very one sided before Doflamingo pulled out Awakening. In terms of physical abilities, Doflamingo couldn't even harm Luffy's body. The gap between Luffy G4 and Doffy was significant.
Cracker is stronger than Doffy,
Katakuri is stronger than Cracker,
Post Katakuri Luffy G4 is stronger than Katakuri,
Kaidou is outstandingly stronger than PK Luffy G4,
Kin'emon can harm Kaidou.

The scaling chain is just too great for us to scale Doffy to Kin'emon. Again, we can only blame power creep.

Isn't Kaido's Thunder Bagua stronger than his normal attacks for using Haoshoku coating anyways? Pretty sure we saw Kin'emon taken out when being hit by a similar attack.

No evidence of Kaidou utilizing Haoshoku Infusion in that particular instance, no. Plus, Kaidou can use Haoshoku in virtually any other attack, so no reason for TB to be particularly stronger, it's just shown to be faster.
Either way, Kaidou's durability scales to the TB's AP.

Edit: I also thought they put emphasis on Ryuo being a major contributor for being able to harm Kaido (outside of other methods we see in the later fights)

They do not possess internal destruction, they possess emission, which is just plain AP.

 

[CinCameron20]

Kaidou’s first Thunder Bagua on Luffy had no Hao Infusion at all, the black lightning from the strike is not the same as Hao Lightning

Trying to scale Doffy to Kaidou at all is just not supported in any regard

Not trying to scale Doffy to Kaido at all. Trying to scale Doflamingo to Kin'emon since we see him actually wound him with a kick on-panel.

Either Kin needs a separate key to prevent confusion, or the scaling needs another look.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Not trying to scale Doffy to Kaido at all. Trying to scale Doflamingo to Kin'emon since we see him actually wound him with a kick on-panel.

Either Kin needs a separate key to prevent confusion, or the scaling needs another look.

Giving a new key for one particular instance seems to be overkill.
Doflamingo was the main villain of the arc, there is no way Oda planned for this massive power gap he'd employ Kin'emon with, and making Kin'emon tank Doffy like he was nothing would make Doflamingo certainly less threatening.

It is just a Plot-Induced Stupidity similar to how Vivi harmed Luffy with physical blows in a serious fight.

 

[CinCameron20]

The fight was very one sided before Doflamingo pulled out Awakening. In terms of physical abilities, Doflamingo couldn't even harm Luffy's body. The gap between Luffy G4 and Doffy was significant.
Cracker is stronger than Doffy,
Katakuri is stronger than Cracker,
Post Katakuri Luffy G4 is stronger than Katakuri,
Kaidou is outstandingly stronger than PK Luffy G4,
Kin'emon can harm Kaidou.

The only attack we see Doflamingo land (before the fight goes off-panel) is a kick that bounces off. Cracker on the other-hand used a bladed weapon. I wouldn't really discredit Doflamingo just because Cracker used a weapon that Luffy is weak to, even in Bound-Man.

But anyways, I pointed out an error I perceive in an above comment regarding the meteors.

Giving a new key for one particular instance seems to be overkill.
Doflamingo was the main villain of the arc, there is no way Oda planned for this massive power gap he'd employ Kin'emon with, and making Kin'emon tank Doffy like he was nothing would make Doflamingo certainly less threatening.

It is just a Plot-Induced Stupidity similar to how Vivi harmed Luffy with physical blows in a serious fight.

Kin'emon was shown relative to Brook in Punk Hazard, no? We even see that Kin is terrified of Doflamingo in a flashback. It's not just one instance of showing Doflamingo's superiority over Kin.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Giving a new key for one particular instance seems to be overkill.
Doflamingo was the main villain of the arc, there is no way Oda planned for this massive power gap he'd employ Kin'emon with, and making Kin'emon tank Doffy like he was nothing would make Doflamingo certainly less threatening.

It is just a Plot-Induced Stupidity similar to how Vivi harmed Luffy with physical blows in a serious fight.

Basically this^

 

[CinCameron20]

Also, I'm seeing that Doflamingo's AP/Dura comes from the strings cutting the meteorite into several pieces, but I thought we had a previous discussion about this (or at least how the meteor wasn't cut 6/7 times).

First, we're looking at the largest meteorite, yet scaling based on the front-most one, which is wrong. We only see the front meteorite being cut into 7 pieces (which is way smaller than the largest scaled to 6-A). The very next page shows it in more pieces. Even if we disregard the chunks overhead (presumably another meteorite), there are more pieces visible on-panel and large chunks of the meteor are missing. There are about 12-14 pieces we see in that last page, ignoring the 2 overhead.

The larger meteorite (since it covers more horizontal space than the forward-most meteor) would have been cut into more pieces. And since we don't see any mention of the cage being damaged in any way, this would have to be the case, no?

I would rather focus on this for the moment, honestly.

(And I just find it ironic how Doflamingo's ability specializes in cutting and piercing attacks, yet he never used any such ability on Luffy during their 2nd encounter and instead focused on kicks)

 

[KingTempest]

Welcome back Cin.

Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding this correctly:

Doflamingo is scaling to 6-C with his physical strikes, and Kin'emon is scaling to 6-A durability from being taking hits via Kaido (and other 6-A characters).

There is a clear panel of Doflamingo wounding Kin'emon with a kick, so either there is a key missing, or this is overlooked.

Doffy sneaked him and didn't leave super noticeable damage.

The issue is that Kin'emon hasn't grown from his previous battle with Kaidou and his later one. Kin'emon was at that level throughout the series, which is why he doesn't have another key.

Also, I'm seeing that Doflamingo's AP/Dura comes from the strings cutting the meteorite into several pieces, but I thought we had a previous discussion about this (or at least how the meteor wasn't cut 6/7 times).

First, we're looking at the largest meteorite, yet scaling based on the front-most one, which is wrong. We only see the front meteorite being cut into 7 pieces (which is way smaller than the largest scaled to 6-A). The very next page shows it in more pieces. Even if we disregard the chunks overhead (presumably another meteorite), there are more pieces visible on-panel and large chunks of the meteor are missing. There are about 12-14 pieces we see in that last page, ignoring the 2 overhead.

The larger meteorite (since it covers more horizontal space than the forward-most meteor) would have been cut into more pieces. And since we don't see any mention of the cage being damaged in any way, this would have to be the case, no?

Those would be more meteors, since we see that the main meteor was split into 7, then there's more in the air

Not trying to scale Doffy to Kaido at all. Trying to scale Doflamingo to Kin'emon since we see him actually wound him with a kick on-panel.

Either Kin needs a separate key to prevent confusion, or the scaling needs another look.

Unfortunately this would scale to Kaidou.
Kin'emon backscales from Kaidou for leaving damage and for taking hits in their battle.

If Doffy scales to Kin'emon, he inevitably scales to Kaidou

Edit: I also thought they put emphasis on Ryuo being a major contributor for being able to harm Kaido (outside of other methods we see in the later fights)

They scale to him fully with Haki. They backscale with regular swordsmanship, as people like Kawamatsu took hits from Kaidou without Haki guards, and then other scabbards and Kanjuro's ink soldiers can harm him.

It was an assumption, debunked when they actually used Koka later in the fight for the 4 Scabbard Special Move. They asked if they used Oden's Ryuo, which was wrong.

It is just a Plot-Induced Stupidity similar to how Vivi harmed Luffy with physical blows in a serious fight.

I wouldn't say that

I would say that Oda had no idea about the strength level of Kin'emon at that point in time. He clearly thought he was just a random fodder, when his literal only feat of scaling throughout the entire series until Wano was fighting Brook with only his torso.

So I'd call it an outlier on Doffy's part, inconsistency on Oda's part, or a retcon of Kin'emon's strength

 

[CinCameron20]

Welcome back Cin.


Doffy sneaked him and didn't leave super noticeable damage.

Hello again!

He caused him to bleed, and in the same panel you linked, Kin'emon has blood covering half of his face, and he is grasping the wound. And I thought we had a past discussion about how sneak attacks don't suddenly bypass durability.

Those would be more meteors, since we see that the main meteor was split into 7, then there's more in the air

The point is we are scaling from one of the smaller meteors, and we see the same one in more pieces (again, disregarding any chunks shown following shortly behind it).

We see the front meteor in 7 pieces in the initial panel, then presumably the same one in 12+ pieces (with some smaller chunks no where to be seen). Either way, this does not apply to the largest meteorite, which would have touched more strings due to its much larger size. And I thought we argued how the meteors could not logically be cut into such large chunks because of the small gap between each thread--therefore we used a ratio based on the size of the cage and where the meteors touched respectively?

Either way, I believe the calculation needs to be looked at again simply because it's wrong for using the forward-most meteorite when we're scaling based off of the largest one

Unfortunately this would scale to Kaidou.
Kin'emon backscales from Kaidou for leaving damage and for taking hits in their battle.

If Doffy scales to Kin'emon, he inevitably scales to Kaidou

Fair enough. But I always found it weird for the Scabbards to fully scale to base Kaidou (durability) anyways if they couldn't really cut into his old scar--even when working together. Another discussion, I guess. Kaido suddenly bled from every attack then revealed they weren't having an effect on him. Weird.

And of course a lot of scaling issues do come from the fact Gear 4th Luffy's fights are almost always off-panel when the fight starts actually heating up.

 

[Damage3245]

We see the front meteor in 7 pieces in the initial panel, then presumably the same one in 12+ pieces (with some smaller chunks no where to be seen). Either way, this does not apply to the largest meteorite, which would have touched more strings due to its much larger size. And I thought we argued how the meteors could not logically be cut into such large chunks because of the small gap between each thread--therefore we used a ratio based on the size of the cage and where the meteors touched respectively?

Either way, I believe the calculation needs to be looked at again simply because it's wrong for using the forward-most meteorite when we're scaling based off of the largest one

The only one we have a clear number of slices for is the lead meteorite. So it seems from what you're saying is that we should replace the values in the current calc for the string's durability to use the KE of the lead meteor.

This wouldn't affect Fujitora's calc, but would very slightly affect the calc for the strings.

 

[KingTempest]

Hello again!

He caused him to bleed, and in the same panel you linked, Kin'emon has blood covering half of his face, and he is grasping the wound. And I thought we had a past discussion about how sneak attacks don't suddenly bypass durability.

This is true.

Then we'll need to discuss if everyone scaling to Kin'emon prior to Wano is an outlier or not, unless we get things like Kaidou level Brook.

Because as this is definitely a feat, the consistency of it is the issue.

The point is we are scaling from one of the smaller meteors, and we see the same one in more pieces (again, disregarding any chunks shown following shortly behind it).

We see the front meteor in 7 pieces in the initial panel, then presumably the same one in 12+ pieces (with some smaller chunks no where to be seen). Either way, this does not apply to the largest meteorite, which would have touched more strings due to its much larger size. And I thought we argued how the meteors could not logically be cut into such large chunks because of the small gap between each thread--therefore we used a ratio based on the size of the cage and where the meteors touched respectively?

Either way, I believe the calculation needs to be looked at again simply because it's wrong for using the forward-most meteorite when we're scaling based off of the largest one

Oh... shit

I just looked deep at that, and it definitely makes sense.

The issue for me is your second paragraph (that I quoted) since that's a weird glaring issue in the grand scheme of things. They logically should've been cut into more pieces, which they weren't.

Or maybe they were able to cut through the meteors, and then as they fell it got bigger in our POV while the strings stayed in the same size.

Tbh with the size difference the most I'd assume would be 7 or 8 strings, leaning to 7, as actually measuring the string amount is just unnecessarily difficult.

Fair enough. But I always found it weird for the Scabbards to fully scale to base Kaidou (durability) anyways if they couldn't really cut into his old scar--even when working together. Another discussion, I guess. Kaido suddenly bled from every attack then revealed they weren't having an effect on him. Weird.

Nah the damage is pretty much when they could all individually harm him and such.

Kin'emon, Denjiro, and Inuarashi stabbed him deep into his body, with Inuarashi and Nekomamushi getting blatant statements of being able to damage Kaidou.
Kawamatsu made his spit out massive amounts of blood and the siblings hurt him from afar as well.

They could all hurt Kaidou. Opening his scar is a different conversation of the "shallowness" shit, when Kiku could flat out impale his hand with no haki while Kaidou calls the cut that almost killed him "shallow"

And of course a lot of scaling issues do come from the fact Gear 4th Luffy's fights are almost always off-panel when the fight starts actually heating up.

In the context of Doflamingo and Cracker, that's fair. For others, not too much.

 

[Damage3245]

Then we'll need to discuss if everyone scaling to Kin'emon prior to Wano is an outlier or not, unless we get things like Kaidou level Brook.
Because as this is definitely a feat, the consistency of it is the issue.

Presumbly Kin'emon did additional training on Wano while preparing for the Raid.

I wouldn't backscale his feats during to the Raid to Dressrosa so that everybody is Kaidou level.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I would say that Oda had no idea about the strength level of Kin'emon at that point in time

If kinemon was as strong as he is in wano, the ******* birdcage plot point is pointless too, or Kinemon losing to Law in Punk Hazard when he has strong Haki to slightly damage Kaido

This is one of the worst plot holes of One Piece, so I would not like Kinemon to scale to anyone on previous arcs

 

[CinCameron20]

The only one we have a clear number of slices for is the lead meteorite. So it seems from what you're saying is that we should replace the values in the current calc for the string's durability to use the KE of the lead meteor.

This wouldn't affect Fujitora's calc, but would very slightly affect the calc for the strings.

Not quite. We know the large meteor had to have been cut by the cage. The point is we don't see how many pieces it was cut into.

The lead meteor was shown in 7 pieces, but then 12+ in the very next page (with several portions of it missing, so it's either fallen into a different location, or fell shortly behind like the 2 chunks we see)... so it could very well be in many more slices.

I also previously argued the reason for the chunks being so large being an artistic choice, but that's speculation and bias so you're free to ignore that.

Considering the large meteorite covers far more horizontal space than the lead meteor, it had to have come into contact with more strings, thus cut into more pieces.

We are scaling the Dura of the strings from the AP of the largest meteorite, so it's only right that we find out how many strings came into contact with it.

The issue for me is your second paragraph (that I quoted) since that's a weird glaring issue in the grand scheme of things. They logically should've been cut into more pieces, which they weren't.

Or maybe they were able to cut through the meteors, and then as they fell it got bigger in our POV while the strings stayed in the same size.

Tbh with the size difference the most I'd assume would be 7 or 8 strings, leaning to 7, as actually measuring the string amount is just unnecessarily difficult.

I argued previously that it was probably an artistic choice. Finding out how many of the threads touched the meteor is easy since we simply have to find the gap between each string (which i believe was already calculated), the number of strings based off of circumference, thickness of each string, and gap between each string, then we scale off of the location where the meteors hit (smaller radius, so the gap is reduced the closer to the top of the umbrella you get).

I think we had it somewhere around 20% of the meteor coming into full contact with the cage. I forgot the exact value. The only thing that has changed is the number of threads since the size of Dressrosa has been changed from what it was originally.

Otherwise, if we want to argue "Fiction, so anything can happen" (cop-out tbh) take the lead meteor's size, how many pieces it was cut into (I'm arguing >12 currently), and then scale up the number of slices based off of the size difference between the 2 meteors.

If kinemon was as strong as he is in wano, the ******* birdcage plot point is pointless too, or Kinemon losing to Law in Punk Hazard when he has strong Haki to slightly damage Kaido

This is one of the worst plot holes of One Piece, so I would not like Kinemon to scale to anyone on previous arcs

There's also Zoro casually fending off Kin'emon's assault when being accused of stealing Ryuma's blade.

I genuinely think he needs a new key simply to circumvent confusion because there are A LOT of points to bring up... Or all these characters are surprisingly relative to their Early Onigashima raid selves in power. Haha

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think all those 12+ chunks are necessarily from the same meteor. The meteors were falling together quite closely in quick succession.

 

[Aerozz]

IMO Oda kinda fuked the power scale in Onigashima he made everyone way stronger than they actually are.
one piece is my fav anime/manga but when I see something is wrong I cant overlook it
also IMO one piece had one of the best power scale/balancing logic in most anime but that was before whole cake island.

its actually sad but I know why its happening its coz Oda really wanted to finish one piece as soon as possible

 

[CinCameron20]

I don't think all those 12+ chunks are necessarily from the same meteor. The meteors were falling together quite closely in quick succession.

The point is we are using the lead meteor's 7 pieces to scale the cage when we know the largest meteor (definitely in more pieces) was cut... and we see the same (or different as you suggest) meteor is in 12+ pieces in the very next page.

The calculation is simply wrong.

 

[KingTempest]

Presumbly Kin'emon did additional training on Wano while preparing for the Raid.

Nada, cause if he did then everyone would've, and its stated that some scabbards were the same strength 20 years ago, which means they ain't

Otherwise, if we want to argue "Fiction, so anything can happen" (cop-out tbh) take the lead meteor's size, how many pieces it was cut into (I'm arguing >12 currently), and then scale up the number of slices based off of the size difference between the 2 meteors.

I mean... I guess?

 

[Damage3245]

Nada, cause if he did then everyone would've, and its stated that some scabbards were the same strength 20 years ago, which means they ain't

When was this said?

 

[KingTempest]

When was this said?

 

[CinCameron20]

I mean... I guess?

okay, so for example, let's say meteor 1 is 40 meters wide, and meteor 2 is 150.

If meteor 1 was cut into 12 pieces, then presumably meteor 2 was cut into 45... not entirely accurate since the cage is spherical in shape, but close enough.

I'm still arguing going based off the ratio using math to determine how much of the meteor must have touched the cage since we don't see the largest meteor cut anyways.
----
Dressrosa = 9835.27m Cage = 7394.75m (at bottom) 2070.53m (Around the area where the meteor should impact)

Finding the exact size of the threads isn't necessary. Finding the ratio between thread-to-space is.

Thread = 7px Space = 98px (but the cage is nearly half-way enclosed at this point. Despite the fact this seems rather consistent with an earlier panel in chapter 745, so I'll use this for now because otherwise it would not make sense for characters to be trapped within the cage at the start).

• Ratio = 7 to 98, so about 1/15th of the space is occupied by thread.

However, this changes the further up the cage you go. The gap is massively reduced, but the threads logically remain the same size.

2070.53/7394.75 = .28... This is a fraction, so the 98 for the space would be reduced to 27.44. The new ratio is 7 to 27.44 (34.44 total), so yeah, it's about 20.325% the cage comes into contact with the meteor.

Meteor = 4.3203622e+24 Joules for KE, so the strings are instead 4.3203622e+24*.20325 = 8.7811362e+23 Joules or 209.874192160611 Teratons of Tnt (High 6-B)

The value would be around half of this if we assume the gap between each thread is greater since it is partially enclosed by this point.

Not sure how to post downloaded images here, but i'm going based off of the images in chapter 751 and 787

 

[Damage3245]

That's fair, though that still takes place before the raid itself.

Either way, I think we can agree that there would be more problems in fully backscaling Wano Kin'emon to Punk Hazard than there would be in ignoring that.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

That seems unrelated to the OP, shouldn't it be discussed in a CRT?

 

[KingTempest]

That seems unrelated to the OP, shouldn't it be discussed in a CRT?

it's related because kin was the same throughout, so if kin'emon had an unknown growth, it'd affect doffy

 

[Damage3245]

Actually, I had some free time, so I can look into the calc now.

@KingTempest; using the same method for the current calc but for the different meteor, I get the durability of the strings to actually be pretty much the same as the current calc if we assume that it hit an amount of strings proportional to its size as the first meteor did.

The durability of the strings would be virtually unchanged.

 

[KingTempest]

Actually, I had some free time, so I can look into the calc now.

@KingTempest; using the same method for the current calc but for the different meteor, I get the durability of the strings to actually be pretty much the same as the current calc if we assume that it hit an amount of strings proportional to its size as the first meteor did.

The durability of the strings would be virtually unchanged.

That's... weird
Even when you divide the ratio'd yield by the amount of strings?

 

[Damage3245]

That's... weird
Even when you divide the ratio'd yield by the amount of strings?

Yep. Used pixelscaling and found out that if the first meteor hit 6 strings, then the biggest meteor would have hit 9 strings. The difference in durability values is miniscule.

 

[KingTempest]

Yep. Used pixelscaling and found out that if the first meteor hit 6 strings, then the biggest meteor would have hit 9 strings. The difference in durability values is miniscule.

Oh. That's cool.

I guess it should be blogged since it's... pretty much more accurate than the current calc, regardless of the value

 

[Damage3245]

Oh. That's cool.

I guess it should be blogged since it's... pretty much more accurate than the current calc, regardless of the value

Sure. I'll put it in a blog so it can be double-checked.

 

[CinCameron20]

The first meteor is actually in 12 or more pieces. If you want to suggest the next page suddenly changed focus to another meteor impacting, that needs some explaining.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't see the first meteor in 12. The first meteor already hit the ground, all the other pieces are from the 2nd meteor

 

[CinCameron20]

I don't see the first meteor in 12. The first meteor already hit the ground, all the other pieces are from the 2nd meteor

Where is it shown hitting the ground other than the panel in the following page?

I'm not even counting the stray pieces.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't believe that the first meteor is in 12 pieces, so I won't be taking that into account for the calc.

 

[SnookB]

This is a nigh identical case to Katakuri scaling over Persopero yet Perospero being shown comparable to Jack and can survive Queen slamming into him. By proxy Kat should be 6A
By logic, we accepted the power creep is what it is. Oda likely didn't plan for Kin being such a chad this arc. OR Kinemon just got stronger since Dressrosa to here. Straw hats were already accepted to have gotten stronger in between islands by doing practically zero training for the most part. The same could be for Kin imo

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

outlier

 

[Nierre]

Has this thread been concluded or..?