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DCAU - Superman Revisions
- Thread starter PapiSavitar5025
- Start date
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Nah that's about it. The only way I'm seeing it without using a generic size is to use the dock scenes to get a size of the buildings and then using those to get an island length and then using the map to try and find the width of the volcano.
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Didn’t Flash tank the sun blowing up on him that one time? And Superman >>> Flash in terms of strength?
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I know you see the docks at one point but I don't remember them being next to the buildings for them to be used as reference. In this shot you don't really see the buildings, only the lights.
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Pretty big outlier, also even regardless he was protected or at least under the effect of a GL with likely not the best levels of concentration when that happened.
Also when Flash is tapping into the speed force he's likely stronger ala, him actually harming Luthoriac.
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- Thread starter
- #366
Not to mention, that looked less like the Sun exploding and more-so that bomb Flash had going off with a big ole shockwave.
But out of all the feats in the show, this one is def. the biggest outlier.
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I mean, outlier isn't just "lol higher than other feats", it's beyond that
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Seems like the type of feat where inverse square law is mandatory, comparing the surface area if said explosion to Flash's. ISL is important when calculating durability required to survive explosions bigger than you are. It's a different story if the explosion was your own attack, which it wasn't. Green Lantern was shielding Flash, which may or may not be his forcefields that take credit. And Superman is stronger lifting strength wise sure, but when Wally goes full speed, he's a lot stronger than his piers given he was the only one who could overpower Luthoriac yeah.
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- Thread starter
- #369
Though, Flash obviously wasn't going that fast in that feat, as he wasn't at risk of blinking out of existence then. So, if we wanted to use that feat, it would be safe to say that Superman would scale.
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The Luthoriac fiasco didn’t happen until JLU. That’s a JL episode. So yeah Wally wasn’t channeling his comic OPness when he did the sun tanking.
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- Thread starter
- #372
Unfortunately, no. We're still going back and forth on how Superman and Doomsday scale to the eruption.
Personally, I don't mind them scaling to the full eruption.
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- Thread starter
- #376
Wasn't it said that Doomsday would scale to it if he was in the epicenter? He wasn't at the start, but during the final massive eruption where the KE comes from, he was pretty close to it.
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Not really. Watch the eruption again, there's multiple origin points, the big explosion is almost the entire width of the volcano which was measured to be over 40 kilometers long and more importantly the current calc assumes that Doomsday withstood all of the lava's kinetic energy hitting him at once. Since the lava, you know moved past Doomsday, that quite literally means he cannot scale to the full KE.
Or to use visual examples: This or this is scaling to the full KE. The object hit someone and then dead stopped, which means all the previous momentum was transferred into them. This and this is not. The object hit them and moved forward with minimal loss of speed, meaning that they only absorb part of the KE.
Doomsday only full scales if it was an explosion (which isn't what Dark's calc is getting numbers for) or if the object hitting him more or less stopped once it hit him.
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- Thread starter
- #380
Superman's AP scales to his Durability, he was able to harm and defeat an opponent who in-turn could harm him.
I also see no reason to debunk that feat. Superman doesn't get much scaling beyond JLU in Infinity and JLvsFF, so it's pretty much all we have post-Unlimited.
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- #381
Do you think the portion he'd scale to (potentially it blowing up the Volcano?) would be significant enough for an upgrade?
Would he even scale to the eruption destroying the Volcano?
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The only thing Doomsday would scale to would be the explosion volcanos produce when they explode, which is at most a 7-B showing.
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This explosion was much bigger than those volcanoes usually produce though
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The lava flow is much more powerful, but Doomsday wouldn't scale to the lava's kinetic energy. The most he'd scale to is the energy needed to fragment the volcano.
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I agree with this. Thank you for helping out.
So what should we do here then?
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- Thread starter
- #386
What we need to do then, is figure out how much energy was needed to fragment the Volcano. Doomsday was at least in that, as he was thrown down into the Volcano by Superman, and likely sank further down, right in the middle of the fragmentation.
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I repeat my question from earlier. The Flash feat should at least be calced. Writing things off as outliers because they don’t fit our perceived status quo doesn’t feel right to me.
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I did the original calc, at this point in time I am far too busy with other stuff so other CGMs can be asked to help here.
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- #392
Bump.
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It's annoutlier because in the same season Flash was knocked out by 8-C explosions and Superman has been consistently downed or One shot by Tier 7 attacks.
A 5-A feat in the DCAU is just an outlier for any of the characters besides AMAZO.
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That’s not how outliers work. One, there should be a very very good reason to call something an outlier (like you have a planet feat and your super amped god form is explicitly stated to peak at island or smth). And two, you can use that argument for anyone, both inside and outside of the DCAU. The canon, multiverse ripping Flash has been knocked out by building level explosions before (also said explosions you’re mentioning hurt the far more durable Superman or Diana as well). Characters are inconsistent in fiction. Unless you’re a grounded series it’s gonna happen.
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Rather than calling it an outlier, I think it's just unreliable. The Sun going Nova is 5-A, but we'd still need to compared the surface area of the sun as it exploded to the cross sectional area of Flash's body. Which should make the final result much lower. Comparing his surface area from the sun alone, it would look like this.
10^37 Joules /(6.07 x 10^18) m^2 * 0.68 m^2 = 1.1202636e+18 Joules or 267.749424339 Megatons
Also, keep in mind I merely compared it to the sun's surface area as he wasn't quite touching the sun's surface when it exploded and there was some distance making the result likely even lower than that.
10^37 Joules /(6.07 x 10^18) m^2 * 0.68 m^2 = 1.1202636e+18 Joules or 267.749424339 Megatons
Also, keep in mind I merely compared it to the sun's surface area as he wasn't quite touching the sun's surface when it exploded and there was some distance making the result likely even lower than that.
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It's by a base Flash and blows everything else entirely out of the water by dozens of orders of magnitude.
It is, because it's about consistency and relative portrays of power. DCAU Flash is not consistently shown or implied to be Tier 5 or 4
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Flash is consistently inconsistent. It's very blatant that he very rarely operates at his peak. That's why only he could defeat Luthoriac. That's why Lex could ravage the entire JL headquarters when in his body cause he no longer held back
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Yes, but that doesn't mean he's suddenly Large Planet level either.
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