CCC Gilgamesh vs Tiamat

[PsychoWarper]

Super Karna should have beaten Gilgamesh simple as, his authority should heavily outrank Gilgamesh.

If CCC Gils attitude and what he does in battle is so unknown that we would assume he’d use something he’s never even been hinted at having let alone using he should be match banned.

 

[Regidian]

And CCC gil personnality is not even unknow, is litteraly the same arrogant guy, he just better in using SNI and GoB.

 

[CrystalValley]

GOB is stated to have the prototype of all weapon from human. The prototype of seven holy scripture is the horn alone.

From when GoB amp weapon?

Enuma elish was called the strongest weapon too

Gilgamesh never used is SNI like that and in first even CCC don't really use it.

And if seven holy scripture was even used on BB she just would never reappear anywhere.

prove it's only the horn. you do know Holy Scriptures also apart of humanity right?

it's literally in his profile.

where? and again, GoB amping could allow this.

Gilgamesh used SNI in something as unimportant as a match of chess against Rani in CCC, let alone him putting his life on the line to defend someone else.

what do you mean not reappear? the BB of CCC is dead. she doesn't come back. if you're talking about that GO crap, that's a copy of her sent from the Moon Cell and at an unknown time frame.

@PsychoWarper Gilgamesh's attitude is known in CCC. which is bloodlusted by the end of the game in this key. it's the fight that took place not having known specifics because it was all gameplay.

also Reaper has double standards regarding this. he was arguing for Gilgamesh using SNI and the Seventh against Dante, but then suddenly it's not ok when pitted against GO characters.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/551929847631577118/956819168269832202/91831.png
his excuse for this was Gilgamesh not having time in these fights, but he just argued for SNI and picking the right path and using the Seventh and admits openly that this Gilgamesh doesn't mess around in this thread here. you people need to fix your double standards and hypocrisy. also you guys need to actually figure out how these profiles work, considering over half of you think it's fine and another part of you here think it's not alright. and then one blatantly switches his view around depending on the match.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I've never actually agreed with Seventh being used, just that Gil doesn't **** around.

 

[CrystalValley]

I've never actually agreed with Seventh being used, just that Gil doesn't **** around.

you were actively debating that guy on the subject pertaining to if he's serious enough to use it or if he knows how. and you admitted in another thread that you were arguing for this. problem with your reasoning here is that Karna (and Tiamat) cannot blitz and Gilgamesh uses SNI, as you've admitted. so this excuse doesn't work. Gilgamesh will think to use it immediately because as you said, he's bloodlusted and uses SNI.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/551929847631577118/975188464637214720/onl.png

 

[DaReaperMan]

you were actively debating that guy on the subject pertaining to if he's serious enough to use it or if he knows how. and you admitted in another thread that you were arguing for this. problem with your reasoning here is that Karna (and Tiamat) cannot blitz and Gilgamesh uses SNI, as you've admitted. so this excuse doesn't work.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/551929847631577118/975188464637214720/onl.png

Yes, because Gil has soooo much time here to use something he's never actually used before. If your going to go for this, be right.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Well despite being Bloodlusted in CCC he clearly didnt use it then given BB and Kiara werent completely destroyed instantly and never appeared again given their souls would have been removed from the Throne of Heroes and not allowing then to appear again.

 

[Regidian]

prove it's only the horn. you do know Holy Scriptures also apart of humanity right?

it's literally in his profile.

where? and again, GoB amping could allow this.

Gilgamesh used SNI in something as unimportant as a match of chess against Rani in CCC, let alone him putting his life on the line to defend someone else.

what do you mean not reappear? the BB of CCC is dead. she doesn't come back. if you're talking about that GO crap, that's a copy of her sent from the Moon Cell and at an unknown time frame.

@PsychoWarper Gilgamesh's attitude is known in CCC. which is bloodlusted by the end of the game in this key. it's the fight that took place not having known specifics because it was all gameplay.

also Reaper has double standards regarding this. he was arguing for Gilgamesh using SNI and the Seventh against Dante, but then suddenly it's not ok when pitted against GO characters.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/551929847631577118/956819168269832202/91831.png
his excuse for this was Gilgamesh not having time in these fights, but he just argued for SNI and picking the right path and using the Seventh and admits openly that this Gilgamesh doesn't mess around in this thread here. you people need to fix your double standards and hypocrisy. also you guys need to actually figure out how these profiles work, considering over half of you think it's fine and another part of you here think it's not alright. and then one blatantly switches his view around depending on the match.

Bcz it's the horn that was used first? They didn't come up with the holy seven scripture since the creation.

The stat boost is not for his NP.

Everywhere? EA was always called the strongest weapon and NP. And no you litteraly trying to tell his amp could make EA 1-A bruh.

Pratically thebonly time he used it, he didn't use it in battle like it's not in character.

 

[CrystalValley]

Yes, because Gil has soooo much time here to use something he's never actually used before. If your going to go for this, be right.

so the guy touting that he's bloodlusted and uses SNI precog to automatically know the best move is now saying that he won't use it because it results in an outcome you don't want this time, unlike the other.

@PsychoWarper what are you talking about? BB and Kiara never reappeared in the timeline Gilgamesh killed them in. Kiara and BB aren't Heroic Spirits and aren't in the throne of heroes in the first place. the BB in GO was from an unknown timeline that was a copy made by the Moon Cell.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And Dante had no wincon in the thread against Low 1-C Gil, so eventually he'd throw 1-A bs no mater how long it'd take, which isn't the case here.

 

[Regidian]

so the guy touting that he's bloodlusted and uses SNI precog to automatically know the best move is now saying that he won't use it because it results in an outcome you don't want this time, unlike the other.

@PsychoWarper what are you talking about? BB and Kiara never reappeared in the timeline Gilgamesh killed them in. Kiara and BB aren't Heroic Spirits and aren't in the throne of heroes in the first place. the BB in GO was from an unknown timeline that was a copy made by the Moon Cell.

He not bloodlusted, he would have killed them intantly which never happened. And he would never had this low of chance against them in first, amaterasu would too never been tell to be only possibly defeated by arcueid if he had the weapon.

And BB is litteraly tell coming from CCC in her profile, don't try to contradict a profile

 

[Regidian]

In first all of this talk shouldn't be mentionned, seven holy scripture wouldn't kill tiamat in first. God doesn't need soul to live and she can just regen it if needed.

 

[DaReaperMan]

so the guy touting that he's bloodlusted and uses SNI precog to automatically know the best move is now saying that he won't use it because it results in an outcome you don't want this time, unlike the other.

@PsychoWarper what are you talking about? BB and Kiara never reappeared in the timeline Gilgamesh killed them in. Kiara and BB aren't Heroic Spirits and aren't in the throne of heroes in the first place. the BB in GO was from an unknown timeline that was a copy made by the Moon Cell.

Ah yes, because I can't change my mind on something. I had to recheck that debate its been so long since I've done it.

 

[CrystalValley]

Bcz it's the horn that was used first? They didn't come up with the holy seven scripture since the creation.

The stat boost is not for his NP.

Everywhere? EA was always called the strongest weapon and NP. And no you litteraly trying to tell his amp could make EA 1-A bruh.

Pratically thebonly time he used it, he didn't use it in battle like it's not in character.

it's considered an item created by humanity. the horn by itself isn't something Gilgamesh would have because it's not a human creation. only by its creation as a Holy Scripture would it qualify.

the profile specifically mentions GoB amping Enuma Elish.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/551929847631577118/975190728886067200/F.png
don't blame me for this shit. over half of this shit here I consider complete wank. take it up in CRTs though if you want to change it. or debate me privately if you want to go outside of profile logic. i wouldn't be arguing for this 1-A stuff outside of here where I'm forced to abide by profiles.

how would you know the fight didn't end in a one shot at least eventually? the entire fight took place in gameplay. hell Gilgamesh and BB can one shot each other in that gameplay. you didn't even play CCC so how would you know? this is a baseless claim on your part. BB also has several hax that would just instantly take out Gilgamesh if they landed like her absorption.

Amaterasu would have Tamamo's attacks that spawn directly on someone. she's also rated as significantly faster than Gilgamesh. so faster speed plus having attacks that spawn on him instantly would result in her winning. and Types and stuff are rated as far above Amaterasu in speed on here, meaning Gilgamesh likely gets blitzed.

@DaReaperMan you admitted Gilgamesh is bloodlusted many times.

you admitted that Gilgamesh will automatically know the best course of action with SNI many times. none of these were one time things you argued for only briefly.

this means he will use his wincon against someone who is a threat to him. you're just moving the goal post and not liking him using the Seventh once it results in an outcome you dislike.

 

[DaReaperMan]

@DaReaperMan you admitted Gilgamesh is bloodlusted many times.

you admitted that Gilgamesh will automatically know the best course of action with SNI many times. none of these were one time things.

this means he will use his wincon against someone who is a threat to him. you're just moving the goal post and not liking him using the Seventh once it results in an outcome you dislike.

Ah yes, because I can't change my mind on something. I had to recheck that debate its been so long since I've done it.

So that concept is beyond you? Changing one's mind?

 

[CrystalValley]

So that concept is beyond you? Changing one's mind?

changing your opinions you've touted constantly for a long period of time until it conveniently comes to other Fate characters? especially since you're ignoring logical reasoning on top of that to defend your current position? yeah i don't buy it. especially since the time gap between that Dante thread and the Karna thread was like a day or a few days at most, which is a short time to renounce your long held beliefs you still held a few days prior. sorry man, but it seems like bias to me. i'm just calling it how i see it. i want people to try and be as objective and consistent as possible.

 

[Regidian]

it's considered an item created by humanity. the horn by itself isn't something Gilgamesh would have because it's not a human creation. only by its creation as a Holy Scripture would it qualify.

the profile specifically mentions GoB amping Enuma Elish.
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/551929847631577118/975190728886067200/F.png
don't blame me for this shit. over half of this shit here I consider complete wank. take it up in CRTs though if you want to change it. or debate me privately if you want to go outside of profile logic.

how would you know the fight didn't end in a one shot at least eventually? the entire fight took place in gameplay. hell Gilgamesh and BB can one shot each other in that gameplay. you didn't even play CCC so how would you know? this is a baseless claim on your part. BB also has several hax that would just instantly take out Gilgamesh if they landed like her absorption.

Amaterasu would have Tamamo's attacks that spawn directly on someone. she's also rated as significantly faster than Gilgamesh. so faster speed plus having attacks that spawn on him instantly would result in her winning. and Types and stuff are rated as far above Amaterasu in speed on here, meaning Gilgamesh likely gets blitzed.

@DaReaperMan you admitted Gilgamesh is bloodlusted many times.

you admitted that Gilgamesh will automatically know the best course of action with SNI many times. none of these were one time things.

this means he will use his wincon against someone who is a threat to him. you're just moving the goal post and not liking him using the Seventh once it results in an outcome you dislike.

The horn made in weapon by human is counted as a creation by human. It's like saying that gae bolg is not a human weapon bcz it's made of a monster.

Bcz you know bad end exist in the fight and it not finish in os? Gilgamesh can't os BB in gameplay, EA can only os if the hp bar is low enough and using gameplay as argument is bad, rho aias can like counter meodp... BB get most of her hax countered bcz resistance and "ten crown". CCC doesn't have official traduction so yeah would no play it lol, (you don't too) but i have read it and see the gameplay unlike you it seem.

 

[DaReaperMan]

changing your opinions you've touted constantly for a long period of time until it conveniently comes to other Fate characters? especially since you're ignoring logical reasoning on top of that to defend your current position? yeah i don't buy it. sorry man.

If you don't buy it then you've debated stonewallers too much... but then again you are a stonewaller so why should I bother debating you?

 

[CrystalValley]

The horn made in weapon by human is counted as a creation by human. It's like saying that gae bolg is not a human weapon bcz it's made of a monster.

Bcz you know bad end exist in the fight and it not finish in os? Gilgamesh can't os BB in gameplay, EA can only os if the hp bar is low enough.... BB get most of her hax countered bcz resistance and "ten crown".

the horn by itself was never stated to made into a weapon to my knowledge. like it wasn't even used as one as far as I know. just taken from a Unicorn and refitted into the Seventh and THEN kept and used as a weapon.

the 30% health thing is a gameplay gimmick. or do you unironically and genuinely believe that Gilgamesh can only use Enuma Elish when he drops his opponents health to 30% and that BB can only use C.C.C after 10 turns have passed? and Gilgamesh cannot counter her absorption and other uses of her authority, considering he is completely incapable of negating the scripted C.C.C event that happens if you do not kill BB in 10 turns.

@DaReaperMan projecting your issues onto me isn't a good way to deal with them. but yeah, there's no point in bothering continuing between us on this.

 

[Regidian]

Oh and even the profile never mention any ability of GOB to boost EA to 1-A you just make it out of nowhere.

 

[PsychoWarper]

what are you talking about? BB and Kiara never reappeared in the timeline Gilgamesh killed them in. Kiara and BB aren't Heroic Spirits and aren't in the throne of heroes in the first place. the BB in GO was from an unknown timeline that was a copy made by the Moon Cell.

What are you talking about? BB and Kiara are in the Throne oh heroes that’s literally how they can be summoned.

Also wasnt there like an extremely low change Gil could beat BB? Like a 1% chance? If he had a super weapon thats far superior to her and could instantly destroy her why would it be as low as 1% chance?

 

[CrystalValley]

Oh and even the profile never mention any ability of GOB to boost EA to 1-A you just make it out of nowhere.

never said it said that. i said GoB boost it, which contains that weapon. hell, I don't agree with this shit. it's the profiles that has all of this. make a CRT to remove it. i'm fine with that. I could care less. what I don't like is people getting mad when others don't follow the profiles and throw out how they actually view the fight, and then start ignoring the profiles themselves when they think it's wrong. consistency. I want consistency.

 

[CrystalValley]

What are you talking about? BB and Kiara are in the Throne oh heroes that’s literally how they can be summoned.

the Kiara and BB of CCC are not in the throne. as for GO, the Kiara of GO is a beast fused with the personality of her moon self (who btw is specifically stated to be of a lower scale than her moon self) and the BB in GO is a copy sent by the Moon Cell.

 

[Regidian]

the horn by itself was never stated to made into a weapon to my knowledge. like it wasn't even used as one as far as I know. just taken from a Unicorn and refitted into the Seventh and THEN kept and used as a weapon.

the 30% health thing is a gameplay gimmick. or do you unironically and genuinely believe that Gilgamesh can only use Enuma Elish when he drops his opponents health to 30% and that BB can only use C.C.C after 10 turns have passed? and Gilgamesh cannot counter her absorption and other uses of her authority, considering he is completely incapable of negating the scripted C.C.C event that happens if you do not kill BB in 10 turns.

@DaReaperMan projecting your issues onto me isn't a good way to deal with them. but yeah, there's no point in bothering continuing between us on this.

The horn is made into a gun even with holy scripture, why wouldn't it be made like this before too?

You're the one who talked about os in gameplay why you try to argue against it now.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Your issue is that your mind never changes so you think that nobody else's does either, I like Gil way more than I do Tiamat so bias is out of the question, there's your issue.

 

[CrystalValley]

The horn is made into a gun even with holy scripture, why wouldn't it be made like this before too?

You're the one who talked about os in gameplay why you try to argue against it now.

C.C.C is a scripted event if it takes place. the 10 turn thing is a gameplay mechanic, but C.C.C itself when it activates is a scripted event that is basically a cutscene. and BB canonically has other hax to take out Gilgamesh immediately. Gilgamesh like wise could do the same to her if he actually hit her. like if he hit her with Gae Bolg, what does she do? she drops dead if she was pierced in the heart by it from behind. no different from the Seventh aside from needing to be more accurate. they both can kill each other instantly if their abilities land. that's most Nasuverse characters actually.

@DaReaperMan my mind has changed on things, but it has to be disproven or at least have evidence be presented that supports the contrary to what I'm arguing.

 

[Regidian]

never said it said that. i said GoB boost it, which contains that weapon. hell, I don't agree with this shit. it's the profiles that has all of this. make a CRT to remove it. i'm fine with that. I could care less. what I don't like is people getting mad when others don't follow the profiles and throw out how they actually view the fight, and then start ignoring the profiles themselves when they think it's wrong. consistency. I want consistency.

Bcz the profile is bullshit? And it's not in character to use this weapon even in CCC self (if you even consider that he have it). Him using it would have been mentionned in first like any little important weapon he used.

 

[speedster352]

Gilgamesh fra

 

[CrystalValley]

Bcz the profile is bullshit? And it's not in character to use this weapon even in CCC self (if you even consider that he have it). Him using it would have been mentionned in first like any little important weapon he used.

holy shit. YES. I AGREE with you that the profile is bullshit in some ways. HOWEVER, the last time I threw out my thoughts on a fight without abiding by the profiles, Reaper literally popped a blood vessel and was getting super pissed at me. and i've seen other people act somewhat similar. so half of you will ignore the profiles when you disagree with them and half of you think this is an unforgivable sin. do you see my situation right now? i get bitched at no matter which route I take. I don't abide by the profiles and someone comes in and says "use the ******* profiles that's why they're there." then i say "ok" and go by what the profiles say, only for someone else to come in and say "well the profiles are bullshit so stop using them." if you want to abandon profile logic, that is 100% fine by me. we can take this debate in an ENTIRELY different direction in private, to which Tiamat gets destroyed so unbelievably hard. i wouldn't even be bringing up the Seventh if we weren't going off profiles.

 

[Regidian]

C.C.C is a scripted event if it takes place. the 10 turn thing is a gameplay mechanic, but C.C.C itself when it activates is a scripted event that is basically a cutscene. and BB canonically has other hax to take out Gilgamesh immediately. Gilgamesh like wise could do the same to her if he actually hit her. like if he hit her with Gae Bolg, what does she do? she drops dead if she was pierced in the heart by it from behind. no different from the Seventh aside from needing to be more accurate. they both can kill each other instantly if their abilities land. that's most Nasuverse characters actually.

@DaReaperMan my mind has changed on things, but it has to be disproven or at least have evidence be presented that supports the contrary to what I'm arguing.

For the gae bolg BB have her acauality type 3 + her luck, and destroying her heart would not really do a thing, It's not her real body.

 

[Regidian]

Gilgamesh fra

Stop this you didn't even read thing.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Which has been done and you've never moved from your stances, I've watched you debate before, you pretty much don't change your mind on anything even with loads of arguments against it

And yes I take issue with you pretending it ISN'T on the profile Regi, that I haven't changed on as a pet peeve of mine

 

[PsychoWarper]

If Gil did use a super gun to one shot BB why wouldnt specific weapon be mentioned like the rest of them?

 

[Paul_Frank]

He can use GoB to boost Ea, yes, it doesn't like, fuse Ea with the contents of it though, it's just an AP boost iirc

As for whether or not he has the scripture, by the several descriptions and showings of his ability, he would have it yes, he's never used it in character though, like 99% of the things he has, for instance when was the last time we saw him use Vajra (literally once ever), or pull out (insert anything he has been stated or shown to have)

99% of the time he just shoots nameless NPs, so saying he uses a certain thing first would require him to be bloodlusted or fighting optimally, which is what we consider a Gil that listens to SNI, fighting optimally, hence the reason people ever argue him using something specific instead of just chucking A rank spear #734 like he did in FSN

 

[Regidian]

holy shit. YES. I AGREE with you that the profile is bullshit in some ways. HOWEVER, the last time I threw out my thoughts on a fight without abiding by the profiles, Reaper literally popped a blood vessel and was getting super pissed at me. and i've seen other people act somewhat similar. so half of you will ignore the profiles when you disagree with them and half of you think this is an unforgivable sin. do you see my situation right now? i get bitched at no matter which route I take. I abide by the profiles and someone comes in saying "well the profiles are bullshit so stop using them." I stop using them and someone comes in and says "use the ******* profiles that's why they're there." if you want to abandon profile logic, that is 100% fine by me. we can take this debate in an ENTIRELY different direction in private, to which Tiamat gets destroyed so unbelievably hard. i wouldn't even be bringing up the Seventh if we weren't going off profiles.

If we weren't by profile i would have 10k feat that make her not being able to get killed by gil even he i know for you she not tier 1 or even tier 2

 

[CrystalValley]

If we weren't by profile i would have 10k feat that make her not being able to get killed by gil even he i know for you she not tier 1 or even tier 2

well you can try and prove that in private on my wall or something. i'd totally be up to debate you on that.

 

[CrystalValley]

He can use GoB to boost Ea, yes, it doesn't like, fuse Ea with the contents of it though, it's just an AP boost iirc

As for whether or not he has the scripture, by the several descriptions and showings of his ability, he would have it yes, he's never used it in character though, like 99% of the things he has, for instance when was the last time we saw him use Vajra (literally once ever), or pull out (insert anything he has been stated or shown to have)

99% of the time he just shoots nameless NPs, so saying he uses a certain thing first would require him to be bloodlusted or fighting optimally, which is what we consider a Gil that listens to SNI, fighting optimally, hence the reason people ever argue him using something specific instead of just chucking A rank spear #734 like he did in FSN

well the Gilgamesh of CCC is bloodlusted and fights for someone else to the point he even calls them master and treats them as an equal. so I think of all the GIlgamesh's, this one going all out is very believable. especially if he knows he's fighting someone who can kill him quickly. that is my reasoning here.

 

[Regidian]

well you can try and prove that in private on my wall or something. i'd totally be up to debate you on that.

Don't have much time for now but why not one day.

 

[CrystalValley]

Don't have much time for now but why not one day.

take your time man. whenever you feel like it.

 

[CrystalValley]

If Gil did use a super gun to one shot BB why wouldnt specific weapon be mentioned like the rest of them?

there was no specific weapons mentioned between Gilgamesh and BB because the fight was entirely gameplay only. i don't get what is not being understood here. like genuinely I do not.