CCC Gilgamesh vs Tiamat

[God243]

Gilgamesh (Fate Series)

To unite dreams beneath a banner of conquest. I praise your efforts. But, warriors... did you not understand? That all dreams must disappear when the dreamer wakes. Every last one of them. Therefore, it was inevitable that I would stand in your way. King of Conquerors, know the end of your...

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Tiamat (Fate)

Tiamat is a primordial Mesopotamian Deity who appears in Fate/Grand Order as a Beast-class Servant known as Beast II. In Sumerian Mythology, Tiamat gave birth to the Gods with her husband Abzu. However, her kids staged an act to kill their primordial father, an act that she gently approved of...

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Gilgamesh:1
Tiamat:

 

[God243]

Bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

Gil has one wincon he's never used ever and Tiamat scales way above him in the first place.

 

[CrystalValley]

because this worked out so well for Super Karna last time.

this version of Gilgamesh had only two full on fights and they took place in gameplay. to say he has or hasn't used something is just wrong. Gilgamesh can also boost Enuma Elish with the Seventh since he can use GoB weapons to boost it. going off the profiles, he wins. Tiamat has no Tamamo type attacks that gives her the win against Gil like in the last thread to my knowledge, so Idk what she does here before dying.

 

[DaReaperMan]

because this worked out so well for Super Karna last time.

this version of Gilgamesh had only two full on fights and they took place in gameplay. to say he has or hasn't used something is just wrong. Gilgamesh can also boost Enuma Elish with it since he can use GoB weapons to boost it. going off the profiles, he wins. you'd need something like Amaterasu that is faster and has Tamamo's spawn on you type attacks to win.

Tiamat has higher authority then Gil so she resists 99.99% of his shit, plus the fact that she has types 5 and 8 immortality. Enuma Elish will not work by any means.

Why didn't Gil bust out his 1-A hax on BB or Kiara or Goetia or literally ANYONE he's fought seriously then?

 

[CrystalValley]

Tiamat has higher authority then Gil so she resists 99.99% of his shit, plus the fact that she has types 5 and 8 immortality. Enuma Elish will not work by any means.

Why didn't Gil bust out his 1-A hax on BB or Kiara or Goetia or literally ANYONE he's fought seriously then?

we have no idea how the fight with Gilgamesh BB and Kiara went down because it all took place in gameplay.

going off profiles, Goetia would statue Servant Gilgamesh so his hax are irrelevant.

and since when has Gilgamesh really gone all out outside of CCC and blasting Tiamat? we've seen him do point blank portal attacks with GoB in CCC that he has never done outside of the series. clearly he is more serious there than ever shown anywhere else, aside from Enkidu off screen I guess? and he counters GoB and could just dodge that non AoE weapon of his.

Gilgamesh also has the Black Barrel technically for no concept of death shit.

 

[DaReaperMan]

we have no idea how the fight with Gilgamesh BB and Kiara went down because it all took place in gameplay.

going off profiles, Goetia would statue Servant Gilgamesh.

and since when has Gilgamesh really gone all out outside of CCC and blasting Tiamat? we've seen him do point blank portal attacks with GoB in CCC that he has never done outside of the series. clearly he is more serious there than ever shown anywhere else, aside from Enkidu off-screen I guess? and he counters GoB and could just dodge that non-AoE weapon of his.

We do actually, we look at context and his attacks.

Gil wasn't in normal servant form in Solomon, if he was he was acting super OOC.

Why yes, where's the 1-A hax there? If it wasn't used its Out Of Character, making Gil's single possible wincon completely worthless because he can't permakill Tiamat with Ea, and he can't really harm her with normal attacks

 

[CrystalValley]

We do actually, we look at context and his attacks.

Gil wasn't in normal servant form in Solomon, if he was he was acting super OOC.

Why yes, where's the 1-A hax there? If it wasn't used its Out Of Character, making Gil's single possible wincon completely worthless because he can't permakill Tiamat with Ea, and he can't really harm her with normal attacks

you're talking about the context of Gilgamesh's attack from purely non scripted gameplay? and Gilgamesh vomits random weapons from GoB from all sides in CCC. any one of them could've been the Seventh for all we know. or do you think Gilgamesh used the same 20 weapons throughout the entire game because the game only made so many models of weapons? you're not being realistic.

pretty sure Gilgamesh was a normal Servant in Solomon. if he wasn't, he definitely didn't have the mentality of his CCC self.

again, saying Gilgamesh in CCC didn't use something when all of his shit took place in gameplay makes no logical sense. he has these weapons and he's serious and doesn't mess around, as you have pointed out many times. that means it is OUT of character for him to not take advantage of a wincon.

 

[DaReaperMan]

you're talking about the context of Gilgamesh's attack from purely non scripted gameplay? and Gilgamesh vomits random weapons from GoB from all sides in CCC. any one of them could've been the Seventh for all we know. or do you think Gilgamesh used the same 20 weapons throughout the entire game because the game only made so many models of weapons? you're not being realistic.

pretty sure Gilgamesh was a normal Servant in Solomon. if he wasn't, he definitely didn't have the mentality of his CCC self.

again, saying Gilgamesh in CCC didn't use something when all of his shit took place in gameplay makes no logical sense. he has these weapons and he's serious and doesn't mess around, as you have pointed out many times. that means it is OUT of character for him to not take advantage of a wincon.

If it was the seventh it would have one-shot pretty damn badly-

Then we're at an impass

Did he use seventh against BB or Kiara? If he did it was a fodder version that wasn't 1-A cause BB and Kiara sure as shit don't have 1-A anything

 

[CrystalValley]

If it was the seventh it would have one-shot pretty damn badly-

Then we're at an impass

Did he use seventh against BB or Kiara? If he did it was a fodder version that wasn't 1-A cause BB and Kiara sure as shit don't have 1-A anything

Gilgamesh and BB could already one shot each other with different moves of theirs. it really came down to a who hit who with what first situation.

again, the entire fight took place in gameplay only. we don't know, but considering he goes all out in CCC and does not hold back, the logical conclusion is yes. also technically BB and Kiara would have the same shit via the Moon Cell's whole power mimicry stuff and copying everything. but this site seems to be weird and indirect regarding how that works, so i don't know if this counts. regardless BB was also capable of one shotting Gilgamesh and Kiara was beyond that even.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Gilgamesh and BB could already one shot each other with different moves of theirs. it really came down to a who hit who with what first situation.

again, the entire fight took place in gameplay only. we don't know, but considering he goes all out in CCC and does not hold back, the logical conclusion is yes. also technically BB and Kiara would have the same shit via the Moon Cell's whole power mimicry shit. but this site seems to be weird and indirect regarding how that works, so i don't know if this counts. regardless, BB was also capable of one shotting Gilgamesh and Kiara was beyond that even.

If Seventh was used Kiara and BB would have been one-shot without any doubt, and arguing they have seventh or anything like it needs to be CRT'd to be 1-A.

 

[CrystalValley]

If Seventh was used Kiara and BB would have been one-shot without any doubt, and arguing they have seventh or anything like it needs to be CRT'd to be 1-A.

you're not reading what I'm saying.

sure, they would be one shotted, but guess what? Gilgamesh can also be one shotted by them. if BB pulls off C.C.C in-game because you fail to kill her in time, it's a scripted one shot death. and unlike the Seventh, it's an AoE attack that wipes out reality that Gilgamesh cannot dodge. it's not 1-A, but it is easily capable of one shotting Gilgamesh. Enuma Elish also can one shot BB. they both can one shot each other. and Kiara is superior to BB. Gilgamesh against those two is a whoever successfully hits who first scenario logically. they aren't shrugging off each other's hax if they actually get hit by them.

Tiamat on the other hand has no such thing and has shit hax and is a massive target.

 

[DaReaperMan]

you're not reading what I'm saying.

sure, they would be one shotted, but guess what? Gilgamesh can also be one shotted by them. if BB pulls off C.C.C in-game because you fail to kill her in time, it's a scripted one shot death. and unlike the Seventh, it's an AoE attack that wipes out reality that Gilgamesh cannot dodge. it's not 1-A, but it is easily capable of one shotting Gilgamesh. Enuma Elish also can one shot BB. they both can one shot each other. and Kiara is superior to BB.

Which doesn't matter here cause Gil never prove-ably uses Seventh ever, its a one-shot tool he doesn't use because he hasn't ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER used it in any scenario.

 

[CrystalValley]

Which doesn't matter here cause Gil never prove-ably uses Seventh ever, its a one-shot tool he doesn't use because he hasn't ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER used it in any scenario.

CCC Gilgamesh is being used in this thread.

his two fights in this form take place in gameplay, meaning we don't know if he did or didn't use it.

his weaknesses are listed as none notable, meaning his ego isn't a factor, unlike his Servant key.

this Gilgamesh is accepted as being bloodlusted in terms of how he fights, which you have loved to bring up over and over until it comes to your characters.

this means that Gilgamesh WILL use his wincon going off profiles. your entire logic hinges on "well because the entire fight took place in gameplay and we didn't see him use it directly, he therefore doesn't in-character." does Gilgamesh only use the same 20 weapons in CCC too because that's all the models the devs made? does GoB only have around 20 weapons in CCC because of this? you never answered this. gameplay is gameplay. using it to discuss lore doesn't work when it isn't scripted events or accurately described. we know Gilgamesh is going all in on CCC and that's all we need to know. i mean is Gilgamesh's MMC also 6-C too? because if we go off gameplay, there is no stat boost once he gets that power.

to argue what you are arguing for, you have to go outside of the logic of the profiles. and if we go outside of what the profiles say then CCC Gilgamesh blitzes and casually instills death into her with the Black Barrel and hand waves the physically sub-planetary (maybe universal in Universe of Record) supersonic character with no good hax and a useless authority, considering authority doesn't work off A>B>C logic and they don't all have the same unified traits as each other.

she loses either way.

 

[DaReaperMan]

CCC Gilgamesh is being used in this thread.

his two fights in this form take place in gameplay, meaning we don't know if he did or didn't use it.

his weaknesses are listed as none notable, meaning his ego isn't a factor, unlike his Servant key.

this Gilgamesh is accepted as being bloodlusted in terms of how he fights, which you have loved to bring up over and over until it comes to your characters.

this means that Gilgamesh WILL use his incon going off profiles.

to argue what you are arguing for, you have to go outside of the logic of the profiles. and if we go outside of what the profiles say then CCC Gilgamesh blitzes and casually instills death into her with the Black Barrel and hand waves the physically sub-planetary (maybe universal in Universe of Record) supersonic character with no good hax and a useless authority, considering authority doesn't work off A>B>C logic and they don't all have the same unified traits as each other.

she loses either way.

If Gil used Seventh, BB or Kiara would not have lived to do anything at all, burden of proof is on you to prove his single known 1-A tool is In-character to use, if you cannot prove he's used it, then it's simply OOC. End of story.

 

[CrystalValley]

If Gil used Seventh, BB or Kiara would not have lived to do anything at all, burden of proof is on you to prove his single known 1-A tool is In-character to use, if you cannot prove he's used it, then it's simply OOC. End of story.

BB and Kiara can also one shot Gilgamesh. I can easily turn that logic on you and say Gilgamesh may of not lived long enough to use HIS one shot weapon. especially since BB's one shot move is an AoE that wipes out reality. refusing to read what I'm saying and just continuing on without countering it doesn't make what you're saying valid. End of story.

 

[DaReaperMan]

BB and Kiara can also one shot Gilgamesh. I can easily turn that logic on you and say Gilgamesh may of not lived long enough to use HIS one shot weapon. especially since BB's one shot move is an AoE that wipes out reality. End of story.

That's not proof of what your claiming Gil would use, so Unfortunately for you your argument just doesn't exist

 

[CrystalValley]

That's not proof of what your claiming Gil would use, so Unfortunately for you your argument just doesn't exist

you being in denial doesn't help your side at all. you're just being bias. Gilgamesh also can one shot BB and Kiara with Enuma Elish in the game. they can one shot each other. you're argument on them getting one shotted doesn't even correlate with your argument of him not using it. Gilgamesh can one shot them with Enuma Elish, let alone that. they can also one shot him and so they are a threat to him. your arguments don't correlate at all. i already proved how going off the profiles, he would use it. going outside of the profiles just makes this unimaginably worse for Tiamat. you made this huge complaint about how you don't like people talking outside of what the profiles say but now you are going against them. moving the goal post.

 

[DaReaperMan]

you being in denial doesn't help your side at all. you're just being bias. Gilgamesh also can one shot BB and Kiara with Enuma Elish. you're argument on them getting one shotted doesn't even correlate with your argument of him not using it.

Because he has never prove-ably used it in any situation at all, if the dude never once uses it in combat or even waves it around as a threat, then it is not IC to use. Argue against debating in general if you want to say otherwise, yeah?

 

[Regidian]

First gil shouldn't have seven holy scripture and for for black barrel he would die using it. And if he don't use in character then 0 need to mention it since he will never use it. Vs here are vs in character no the vs whitout taking in count the perso personnality.

 

[CrystalValley]

Because he has never prove-ably used it in any situation at all, if the dude never once uses it in combat or even waves it around as a threat, then it is not IC to use. Argue against debating in general if you want to say otherwise, yeah?

his fights took place in gameplay. what part of this do you not understand? it's not like there was some scripted fight and he didn't use it. how the fight canonically took place we did not see because it was all player driven gameplay. going off the profiles, he has no weakness in this key and is serious, meaning he will use the wincon weapon that is LISTED on his profile.

let me pull out a line from your book. "make a CRT" if you don't like it.

 

[DaReaperMan]

his fights took place in gameplay. what part of this do you not understand? it's not like there was some scripted fight and he didn't use it. how the fight canonically took place we did not see because it was all player driven gameplay. going off the profiles, he has no weakness in this key and is serious, meaning he will use the wincon weapon that is LISTED on his profile.

let me pull out a line from your book. "make a CRT" if you don't like it.

Just because something is on a profile doesn't mean it will be used, This dude is a super good example of that

 

[Regidian]

his fights took place in gameplay. what part of this do you not understand? it's not like there was some scripted fight and he didn't use it. how the fight canonically took place we did not see because it was all player driven gameplay. going off the profiles, he has no weakness in this key and is serious, meaning he will use the wincon weapon that is LISTED on his profile.

let me pull out a line from your book. "make a CRT" if you don't like it.

Seven holy scripture is shouldn't even be listed on his profile too.

 

[CrystalValley]

Seven holy scripture is shouldn't even be listed on his profile too.

it was added recently in a CRT I was unrelated to.

@DaReaperMan you're not even attempting to counter anything i say. you refuse to actually engage.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Wait since when does Gil have anything 1-A? Only people I know of that has 1-A shit is Shiki and Dantes

 

[DaReaperMan]

it was added recently in a CRT I was unrelated to.

@DaReaperMan you're not even attempting to counter anything i say. you refuse to actually engage.

Because what your saying is just one massive non-argument in the form of "But he has it!"

 

[Regidian]

@DaReaperMan you're not even attempting to counter anything i say. you refuse to actually engage.

Then it should be retired, seven holy scripture only have 1-A shit bcz holy scripture not bcz the weapon itself.


Oh and technically tiamat wouldn't get killed by that as with lb5 god can regen their soul

 

[DaReaperMan]

Then it should be retired, seven holy scripture only have 1-A shit bcz holy scripture not bcz the weapon itself.


Oh and technically tiamat wouldn't get killed by that as with lb5 god can regen their soul

Wat

 

[CrystalValley]

Wait since when does Gil have anything 1-A? Only people I know of that has 1-A shit is Shiki and Dantes

@TrueKingOfHeroes made a CRT adding the Seventh Holy Scripture to his arsenal, which killed Roa's soul.

@Regidian Seventh Holy Scripture negates reincarnation/resurrection. and the weapon has Holy Scriptures in it. there's a reason for the name.

@DaReaperMan characters are naturally assumed to use something in their arsenal unless evidence leads to the contrary. there is none that leads to the contrary for CCC Gilgamesh considering all of his fights took place in gameplay. it's you who has only made non arguments.

 

[Regidian]

Wat

A combinaisonnof feat from lb5 and saber wars

The Goddess survived the destruction of her soul, slowly remaking her soul over the course of 2k years. However, this is only so because she desired, as she split her Soul in 2 of her own accord. Thus, Ishtar and Ashtart are two halves of her soul, while her temple is her body. It is then explained that Gods are not bound by the rules of the living, as their soul is only a part of their existence. The Primordial Goddess’s corpse, even without a soul, still manifested itself with a soul, as the importance of it to a God is the same as a single cell to a human, further cementing that she could have regenerated from the destruction of her soul whenever she desired. Obviously, this is High Godly regen and type 2 immortality to all Gods, thanks to the revisions to the Soul. Even more important, however, is how it was said previously that other Gods could put each other down permanently, which gives them all High Godly negation and Type 2 immortality negation. as well as 8.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Ok so like ignoring Gil having the Seventh Holy Scripture why is it being argued here? He has never used it once across all of his appearances unless Gil is bloodlusted its so out if character to argue it its not even funny

 

[CrystalValley]

Ok so like ignoring Gil having the Seventh Holy Scripture why is it being argued here? He has never used it once across all of his appearances unless Gil is bloodlusted its so out if character to argue it its not even funny

because read the debate. this key of Gilgamesh has only fought in gameplay and we don't know if he did or didn't use it. generally it's assumed a character will use what is in their arsenal unless there is evidence to the contrary. there is none with CCC Gilgamesh, especially since he's been touted around here as being bloodlusted in a fight. Super Karna already lost over this in the past in a debate a while ago that was added to the profiles. don't see how the logic changes for Tiamat.

 

[Regidian]

@TrueKingOfHeroes made a CRT adding the Seventh Holy Scripture to his arsenal, which killed Roa's soul.

@Regidian Seventh Holy Scripture negates reincarnation/resurrection. and the weapon has Holy Scriptures in it. there's a reason for the name.

@DaReaperMan characters are naturally assumed to use something in their arsenal unless evidence leads to the contrary. there is none that leads to the contrary for CCC Gilgamesh considering all of his fights took place in gameplay. it's you who has only made non arguments.

Negating resurection and reincarnation doesn't negate regen. And doesn't mean a thing, gilga would just get a prototype of thr weapon which is litteraly the Horn of a unicorn.

 

[PsychoWarper]

characters are naturally assumed to use something in their arsenal unless evidence leads to the contrary. there is none that leads to the contrary for CCC Gilgamesh considering all of his fights took place in gameplay. it's you who has only made non arguments.

Why the **** would we assume he’d use something he never has instead of assuming he acts like a serious Gil does? Theres no evidence to suggest he’d use something thats never even been hinted at.

 

[Regidian]

because read the debate. this key of Gilgamesh has only fought in gameplay and we don't know if he did or didn't use it. generally it's assumed a character will use what is in their arsenal unless there is evidence to the contrary. there is none with CCC Gilgamesh, especially since he's been touted around here as being bloodlusted in a fight.

If he had it, the pourcentage of gilga winning vs BB would never have been lower than 1%. It's stupid

 

[CrystalValley]

Why the **** would we assume he’d use something he never has instead of assuming he acts like a serious Gil does? Theres no evidence to suggest he’d use something thats never even been hinted at.

common sense dictates a character will use what is in their arsenal unless there is evidence to the contrary. nothing CCC Gilgamesh has done in this key has implied he holds back out of ego. there's a reason his key doesn't have his ego weakness.

@Regidian Gilgamesh already can one shot BB with Enuma Elish and his chance was still considered below 1% despite that. so how does this matter? she can also one shot him. are you even reading anything?

 

[Regidian]

common sense dictates a character will use what is in their arsenal unless there is evidence to the contrary. nothing CCC Gilgamesh has done in this key has implied he holds back out of ego. there's a reason his key doesn't have his ego weakness.

@Regidian Gilgamesh already can one shot BB with Enuma Elish. so how does this matter? she can also one shot him. are you even reading anything?

You are the one to talk? Enuma elish need time to get prepared. Not holy seven scripture and enuma elish wouldn't be called his strongest weapon in his arsenal if this was here. So either he don't have it or he don't even know his existence simple as that.

 

[PsychoWarper]

common sense dictates a character will use what is in their arsenal unless there is evidence to the contrary. nothing CCC Gilgamesh has done in this key has implied he holds back out of ego. there's a reason his key doesn't have his ego weakness.

Common sense does not dictate that, we have seen an angry and serious Gilgamesh before in other works, you know what he has never even been hinted at using? The Seven Holy Scripture. It has never been hinted at being used by Gilgamesh not in CCC nor in any other work its a far bigger leap of assumptions to assume he’d just pull it then to assume he’d act like serious Gil does in other works

 

[CrystalValley]

You are the one to talk? Enuma elish need time to get prepared. Not holy seven scripture and enuma elish wouldn't be called his strongest weapon in his arsenal if this was here. So either he don't have it or he don't even know his existence simple as that.

GoB is stated to have all weapons from humans. it would include that. GoB can amp Enuma Elish, which would include that weapon. and Enuma Elish was called the strongest NP. the Seventh isn't an NP. Gilgamesh has SNI and would use it in terms of knowing his wincon. Enuma Elish needing to be prepared isn't a big deal when they have immeasurable speed. and Enuma Elish is an AoE. the Seventh is something that can actually be dodged. it would just have to be dodged repeatedly and would likely eventually hit if Gilgamesh isn't taken down quickly.

@PsychoWarper an angry triggered Gilgamesh is not the same as a Gilgamesh going all out fighting for someone else. or do you think he was really going all out against Shirou even though the VN specifically made the point of Shirou finishing him off before that happened? we've never seen an all out Gilgamesh in a full on fight in this form except in CCC.

and apparently people here can't agree on how things are rated, because Gilgamesh beat Karna and it was added to the profiles specifically because of this with everyone but Reaper and someone else disagreeing.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/gilgamesh-8d-vs-super-karna-8d.133429/#post-4612190

so how do we deal with this fiasco?

 

[Regidian]

GoB is stated to have all weapons from humans. it would include that. GoB can amp Enuma Elish, which would include that weapon. and Enuma Elish was called the strongest NP. the Seventh isn't an NP. Gilgamesh has SNI and would use it in terms of knowing his wincon. Enuma Elish needing to be prepared isn't a big deal when they have immeasurable speed. and Enuma Elish is an AoE. the Seventh is something that can actually be dodged.

@PsychoWarper an angry triggered Gilgamesh is not the same as a Gilgamesh going all out fighting for someone else. or do you think he was really going all out against Shirou even though the VN specifically made the point of Shirou finishing him off before that happened? we've never seen an all out Gilgamesh in a full on fight in this form except in CCC.

and apparently people here can't agree on how things are rated, because Gilgamesh beat Karna and it was added to the profiles specifically because of this with everyone but Reaper and someone else disagreeing.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/gilgamesh-8d-vs-super-karna-8d.133429/#post-4612190

so how do we deal with this fiasco?

GOB is stated to have the prototype of all weapon from human. The prototype of seven holy scripture is the horn alone.

From when GoB amp weapon?

Enuma elish was called the strongest weapon too

Gilgamesh never used SNI like that and in first even CCC don't really use it much

And if seven holy scripture was even used on BB she just would never reappear anywhere.