Weak Simp King is my Super Star

[Damage3245]

You would have to prove he wasn't the epicenter of the earthquakes since the baseline assumption is that he was the epicenter since it was his Reiryoku keeping the planets in place.

You haven't provided an equal or even superior interpretation to this.

I haven't really gotten into it yet, and I will soon; I'm just pointing out that is not the baseline assumption as far as I can tell.

It looks like it is being plucked out of thin air with a backing of "reasonableness" for it but without any evidence actually attached to it.

 

[Arcker123]

It looks like it is being plucked out of thin air with a backing of "reasonableness" for it but without any evidence actually attached to it.

He did provide a reason tho

No other explantation seems to make sense or has been provided. If it’s the best explanation, then it’s safe to say we ought lean towards it.

 

[Damage3245]

He did provide a reason tho

No other explantation seems to make sense or has been provided. If it’s the best explanation, then it’s safe to say we ought lean towards it.

The reason being:

it's quite literally stated within the manga that the cause of the earthquakes was the death of the Soul King, so of course the most logical assumption is that the epicenter of the earthquakes would be the Soul King.

Is that right?

 

[Arcker123]

The reason being:



Is that right?

You should ask him to clarify ngl

If I’m not mistaken, yea. Also this:

You haven't provided an equal or even superior interpretation to this.

 

[AppleLord]

The death of the Soul King being the cause of the earthquakes is not the same thing as the epicenter of the energy of the quakes being the Soul King's corpse.

It is the epicenter. After Mimihagi took the placed of the the Soul King and Yhwach removed him from the corpse The Soul King palace itself starts shaking BEFORE Soul Society. The earthquake started in the Soul King’s corpse.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

And for the second one, I think my issue is just the same as the previous one that and I'm unsure why we wouldn't just use the full yield from creating the Valley of Screams since all that energy is being released in such a short time span that I feel it would be fair to just give that entire value instead of breaking it up by seconds.

I just knew we had a time frame for the explosion from USklaverei’s old calc. If that statement is good enough to award the release of all the blanks energy the full value, as opposed to dividing by ~5 seconds I’m cool with that.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Also regarding the “but they’re two separate dimensions” point, yes they are, but they are separated by a physical distance. They are kept separate by barriers, that were broken when Ichigo flew down. Meaning there was nothing separating Reiokyu and Seireitei when Reio was initially killed, not that it should matter because we are shown a physical distance exists between the two spaces, unless you think Ichigo has beyond infinite speed or sumn.

I don’t really have anything else to say that Arcker and Deceived haven’t already said atm.

 

[Damage3245]

Here's my understanding of what happened:

Yhwach + Ichigo killed the Soul King that was keeping Soul Society and the other realms stable, and without his presence the torrent of souls that pass through these realms will destroy them.

When the Soul King dies, the Soul Society instantly begins crumbling and shaking.

There is no release of Low 4-C levels of energy at the Soul King's corpse at the moment of his death and the Soul King's palace isn't visibly shaking or crumbling either. If the energy was radiating outwards, the point of the epicentre would have the biggest sign of damage / indication of an earthquake. There is a simple explanation for why there is no visible rumbling or crumbling at that point, and that's because the Soul King's body isn't releasing this energy which is causing the quaking.

As for the scenes in chapter 620, I believe that the Soul King's palace getting torn in two occured just as a result of Yhwach ripping Mimihagi from the Soul King. The actual earthquakes did not start back up until Yhwach actually absorbed Mimihagi (causing the quakes on the next page).

So where is the epicenter if not in the Soul King's palace? I think that it would simply be the planets themselves; Earth, the Soul Society, Hueco Mundo, etc. which are each separately collapsing due to being unstable now by the removal of the Soul King.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I’ll get back to you on that one Chief, typing responses on mobile is a hassle.

 

[Damage3245]

I’ll get back to you on that one Chief, typing responses on mobile is a hassle.

There's no rush.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Why exactly is the trembling the Shinigami are experiencing not happening at the same time? The arc has other examples of scene changes where the events are happening concurrently such as the Auswhalen beams being seen falling by Shunsui yet we already saw them land on several Sternritter.

 

[GroundX1]

I agree with the up, let's see how this goes

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Here's my understanding of what happened:

Yhwach + Ichigo killed the Soul King that was keeping Soul Society and the other realms stable, and without his presence the torrent of souls that pass through these realms will destroy them.

When the Soul King dies, the Soul Society instantly begins crumbling and shaking.

There is no release of Low 4-C levels of energy at the Soul King's corpse at the moment of his death and the Soul King's palace isn't visibly shaking or crumbling either. If the energy was radiating outwards, the point of the epicentre would have the biggest sign of damage / indication of an earthquake. There is a simple explanation for why there is no visible rumbling or crumbling at that point, and that's because the Soul King's body isn't releasing this energy which is causing the quaking.

As for the scenes in chapter 620, I believe that the Soul King's palace getting torn in two occured just as a result of Yhwach ripping Mimihagi from the Soul King. The actual earthquakes did not start back up until Yhwach actually absorbed Mimihagi (causing the quakes on the next page).

So where is the epicenter if not in the Soul King's palace? I think that it would simply be the planets themselves; Earth, the Soul Society, Hueco Mundo, etc. which are each separately collapsing due to being unstable now by the removal of the Soul King.

First and foremost, the idea that the there were separate quakes centered on each realm is rather baseless. We see during the brief time of Reio's death that the damage from the shaking is different across the 3 realms, complete infrastructure collapse in Soul Society, shaking that knocks large Hollows over in Hueco Mundo, and mild shaking that causes mild unrest in the living world. This implies a dissipation in the power of the shaking across the realms, where it is most potent closer to Soul Society than further from it (Hueco Mundo and the living world). The databooks imply that the realms are aligned such that Hueco Mundo is closer to Soul Society than the living world, which again supports the premise that there is not 3 epicenters equally distributed among the realms, but rather the epicenter is nearest to Soul Society, then Hueco Mundo, and then the living world. Considering that Reio is situated directly above Soul Society, this falls perfectly in line with my original premise that it Reio is the origin.

To add further consistency, we see twice that the shaking gets halted from up in Reiokyu. When Mimihagi reaches Reio's corpse, the shaking stops, and again when Yhwach replaces Reio in Reiokyu. In these latter instances there's no way to argue that Reio was somehow already influencing the realms bypassing the distance, because prior to these intances Reio is dead. Not only do we see a dissipation with shaking intensity as you move further away from Reio, as would be expected from a singular epicenter, but twice the shaking is halted from Reiokyu. Compound that with the fact that the root of these quakes is Reio himself, the most logical conclusion is that Reio is the epicenter.

 

[Arcker123]

Yhwach + Ichigo killed the Soul King that was keeping Soul Society and the other realms stable, and without his presence the torrent of souls that pass through these realms will destroy them.

Could you enlighten us to where this is said in the scan at all??? All Yhwach is saying is that the realms are where the souls go through and Reiō's death causes the realms to collapse. He never once says the souls cause them to collapse.

 

[Damage3245]

First and foremost, the idea that the there were separate quakes centered on each realm is rather baseless. We see during the brief time of Reio's death that the damage from the shaking is different across the 3 realms, complete infrastructure collapse in Soul Society, shaking that knocks large Hollows over in Hueco Mundo, and mild shaking that causes mild unrest in the living world. This implies a dissipation in the power of the shaking across the realms, where it is most potent closer to Soul Society than further from it (Hueco Mundo and the living world).

I don't see how that is the implication. That requires the assumption to already be that the power is originated from a single point. It seems equally likely that each realm was experiencing the effects differently because each realm is not the same.

The databooks imply that the realms are aligned such that Hueco Mundo is closer to Soul Society than the living world, which again supports the premise that there is not 3 epicenters equally distributed among the realms, but rather the epicenter is nearest to Soul Society, then Hueco Mundo, and then the living world. Considering that Reio is situated directly above Soul Society, this falls perfectly in line with my original premise that it Reio is the origin.

That notion is countered by the fact that the effects are not at their strongest at the origin. If they were, then there would be evidence of it.

To add further consistency, we see twice that the shaking gets halted from up in Reiokyu. When Mimihagi reaches Reio's corpse, the shaking stops, and again when Yhwach replaces Reio in Reiokyu. In these latter instances there's no way to argue that Reio was somehow already influencing the realms bypassing the distance, because prior to these intances Reio is dead. Not only do we see a dissipation with shaking intensity as you move further away from Reio, as would be expected from a singular epicenter, but twice the shaking is halted from Reiokyu. Compound that with the fact that the root of these quakes is Reio himself, the most logical conclusion is that Reio is the epicenter.

It being halted up in the Soul King's palace doesn't necessarily imply what you say. Mimihagi had to touch the Soul King's body initiate the stabilizing of the realms. This does not mean that the destabilization originated from a single point. And likewise Yhwach was just staying where he already was.

I don't agree that the root of the quakes is the Soul King himself. The root of the quakes is the realms being unstable. Without the Soul King, or a replacement, the stable realms become unstable and experience earthquakes.

It doesn't mean that the Soul King's corpse is projecting Star levels of energy somehow and shaking the worlds that way.


EDIT: I'll be going offline for now. Will be back to this tomorrow if need be.

 

[Duedate8898]

Duedate this is quite literally an appeal to reality and again, an argument that doesn't actually attack the calc itself in a logical manner.

It's beyond common place within fiction where calculated feats grant insane values which would normally cause massive negative side effects to those around it but doesn't actually cause said side effects within Manga.

Because we're talking about fiction, created by authors who don't know physics and who don't understand the consequences of their statements from a physics standpoint.

This is tantamount to saying that no characters within fiction are at or above lightspeed since every time they go at lightspeed they don't destroy the planet through pure kinetic energy alone.

You aren't just attacking Arc's calc with this logic, you're attacking the inherent legitimacy of calcs all together.

When the very basis of the calc relies on using things observed in reality in the first place, it's fair to use reality to question it. You seem to take my issue as being because this so big, there's no way this can be what's going on. That's not it at all.

My actual issue is that the support for the points being asserted by the calc is severely lacking. We allow wiggle room in calculations and some ignoring of real world way things work, but we also ask for support from the fiction in these cases to ignore these things. And generally, the greater the feat in question the more we ask for in terms of supporting its validity.

The only concrete support we have currently that supports an earthquake originating from the soul king's palace and then spreading through the air towards the ground and then causing it to shake is that when the soul king dies Soul Society collapses. That's all that is currently being used as support is:
it's quite literally stated within the manga that the cause of the earthquakes was the death of the Soul King.

However, that doesn't mean the naturally logical assumption is that the earthquake energy itself then permeates through the air down towards Soul Society. Because the means of which his death directly causes the earthquakes isn't told to us or shown.

The logical conclusion should be that the lost of stability which the Soul King provided is causing everything to collapse in on itself. And the reason why that should be the natural conclusion is because we have statements which directly back up that very idea. The Soul King is recognized as maintaining stability. What's occurring is described as the collapse of the worlds. When stability is lost, you don't get a ripple of energy that spreads out and destroys everything that was once supported. What you get is energy which was held back now goes inward to fill the void left behind.

It looks like what's being pushed here is that due to the lack of direct opposition what's being proposed is fine, when that's not at all how any of this is supposed to work. The ones who make the assertion must find direct support for their conclusion in order for it to be fine.

That's because the entire basis for all of this is, "it acts like reality until directly contradicted within the text". Since we use reality in the first place to figure all of this out. The only contradiction found here is being made by us, not Kubo.

So until some conclusive evidence is provided that these earthquakes are being caused by the transmission of energy released by Reio, that then ripples through the air and goes into the ground causing it to shake, I don't see how this calc can be considered valid.

 

[Deceived3596]

@Duedate8898 I'll address your bible tomorrow, about to pass out from being so tired.

 

[AppleLord]

I don't agree that the root of the quakes is the Soul King himself. The root of the quakes is the realms being unstable.

Sounds like an assumption from someone’s point of view. Yet offers no evidence to support the case.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't agree that the root of the quakes is the Soul King himself. The root of the quakes is the realms being unstable.

Based on what?

This seems to say otherwise:

It is the epicenter. After Mimihagi took the placed of the the Soul King and Yhwach removed him from the corpse The Soul King palace itself starts shaking BEFORE Soul Society. The earthquake started in the Soul King’s corpse.

 

[Hasch]

There's the fact the quakes are stronger the closer to the palace, see LW having a long but mild eartquake while SS has giant ravines and the Seireitei crumbling.

Spoiler

https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_6175ee9eba8bd/dd2cb995ec587d57fb28b868181f206e/01.jpg

About the Sena feat, I would like more evidence that there's an actual star.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

There's the fact the quakes are stronger the closer to the palace, see LW having a long but mild eartquake while SS has giant ravines and the Seireitei crumbling.

Spoiler

https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_6175ee9eba8bd/dd2cb995ec587d57fb28b868181f206e/01.jpg

Yup that’s as I brought up in my earlier post.

About the Sena feat, I would like more evidence that there's an actual star.

Check the blog, I’ve provided ample evidence. Whether you think it’s sufficient or not isn’t relevant, the diagram verbatim shows a star, and I provided multiple scans supporting the existence of a star.

 

[KingTempest]

make me neutral due to duedates points

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

make me neutral due to duedates points

Neutral on the WSK calc I assume? Since Duedate is fine with the MoN calc.

 

[KingTempest]

Neutral on the WSK calc I assume? Since Duedate is fine with the MoN calc.

pretty much.

don't want my unsure argument being the reason of a vote going left or right

 

[CloverDragon03]

So my current stance is that I agree that the quake originated with the Soul King, as shown by AppleLord's scan showing that the destruction started with the palace and then went outward to all the realms and shiz. The most logical conclusion based on what we have is that the quake started at the Soul King's Palace.

 

[Scottycj256]

i agree with the revisions

So, if this does go through, this means that the physicals for the god tiers get upgraded to High 5-A to High 4-C right?

 

[Blallooo]

Fully agree with MoN calc, I'm not 100% sure with the Psk vlog but still leaning to agreement cause the earthquake has to originate from somewhere and must have an epicenter and I think the Sk being it is valid so far

 

[Deceived3596]

@Duedate8898 It seems @Arcker123 wishes to take up debating you and your arguments.

Which i'm fine with since i need to start working on revising these profiles so for now i'll stop debating on this thread and i'll have Arcker123 take my steed in debating you.

 

[Damage3245]

So my current stance is that I agree that the quake originated with the Soul King, as shown by AppleLord's scan showing that the destruction started with the palace and then went outward to all the realms and shiz. The most logical conclusion based on what we have is that the quake started at the Soul King's Palace.

But the destruction didn't start with the palace? I addressed this up above.

Based on what?

This seems to say otherwise:

I addressed it here:

As for the scenes in chapter 620, I believe that the Soul King's palace getting torn in two occured just as a result of Yhwach ripping Mimihagi from the Soul King. The actual earthquakes did not start back up until Yhwach actually absorbed Mimihagi (causing the quakes on the next page).

When Ichigo first kills the Soul King, there are no earthquakes or shaking in the Soul King's palace. When we see the wide shot of the other floating cities near the Soul King's palace, they all appear to have been untouched despite being far close to the Soul King than the Soul Society.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

I agree with the Senna calc for sure and am leaning towards agreeing with the WSK calc. The only thing with that on the side of opposing the calc is, if it didn't start from the Soul King/Palace, where do you suppose it started from? Since the 3 realms all having different levels of quakes shows that 3 equal quakes didn't start in the separate realms. SS and Earth are parallel, so we can't say that the planets were different. And in CFYOW it was stated that the quakes were felt worldwide iirc, but no mention of damages to any places to the extent the SS got damaged, so it's not like we can say 'another area of the planet got damaged to the same extent'. Even then would be a reach.

The most logical assumption would be that it started at the SK Palace, but Damage brought up that the palace didn't quake when Ichigo killed the SK. How many instances do we have of the Palace quaking vs it not quaking in context of the lynchpin's death/disappearance?

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with the Senna calc for sure and am leaning towards agreeing with the WSK calc. The only thing with that on the side of opposing the calc is, if it didn't start from the Soul King/Palace, where do you suppose it started from? Since the 3 realms all having different levels of quakes shows that 3 equal quakes didn't start in the separate realms. SS and Earth are parallel, so we can't say that the planets were different. And in CFYOW it was stated that the quakes were felt worldwide iirc, but no mention of damages to any places to the extent the SS got damaged, so it's not like we can say 'another area of the planet got damaged to the same extent'. Even then would be a reach.

Why can't each planet experience it differently? The root cause of the earthquakes isn't implied to be a single point in space. Why is distance the only factor for determining the strength of the earthquakes, especially since these so-called earthquakes are reaching across dimensions somehow?

The most logical assumption would be that it started at the SK Palace

That's only if you assume there has to be a single epicenter, and we have no confirmation of that.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Aren't these dimensions linked together by a physical distance?

 

[Damage3245]

Aren't these dimensions linked together by a physical distance?

Only the Soul King's palace and the Soul Society.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Aren't these dimensions linked together by a physical distance?

Yes*

*We see in MoN that a seemingly physical distance separates WotL and SS (unless you think the realms were being dragged with beyond infinite speeds), but they are normally closed off from each other by their dimensional barriers. Which is exactly how Reiokyu is linked to SS, there's a physical distance you travel to get between the two, they're just normally blocked off from each other by dimensional barriers.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll clarify that I don't have a problem with the other three calcs in the OP.

Just with the earthquake one.

 

[Deceived3596]

Yes*

*We see in MoN that a seemingly physical distance separates WotL and SS (unless you think the realms were being dragged with beyond infinite speeds), but they are normally closed off from each other by their dimensional barriers. Which is exactly how Reiokyu is linked to SS, there's a physical distance you travel to get between the two, they're just normally blocked off from each other by dimensional barriers.

Go to sleep nerd.

Its passed your bedtime.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Go to sleep nerd.

Its passed your bedtime.

Negative I'm pulling an all-nighter, I got to present my research progress to my professor tomorrow morning, haven't been able to make much progress since I had to quarantine with covid, ain't no rest for the weary.

I'll clarify that I don't have a problem with the other three calcs in the OP.

Just with the earthquake one.

Thanks for the clarification. I do see your points with the issues of the shaking calc, but I'll let Arcker/Deceived and Duedate iron out their contentions, and see what the opinions are then before checking the conclusions.

@Duedate8898 @KingTempest do y'all share Damage's sentiment of only having issues with the quake calc, or do y'all have contentions with the entire WSK calc blog?

 

[Deceived3596]

I got to present my research progress to my professor tomorrow morning

I have something to present to you.

Spoiler

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I have something to present to you.

Spoiler

Spoiler: I

Spoiler: Have

Spoiler: Something

Spoiler: For

Spoiler: You

Spoiler: In

Spoiler: Return

Spoiler: For

Spoiler: Your

Spoiler: Generosity

Thanks