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Weak Simp King is my Super Star

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Arc7Kuroi

Arc7Kuroi

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Introduction
So, with the newly accepted Reiokyu-Seireitei distance and information from MoN that hasn't been discussed too much, I've produced two calcs that scale to the Weakened Soul King (and thus the rest of the God Tiers). As such, this thread is to discuss their implementation.

WSK Calc
This calc utilizes the radiated waves earthquake formula to calculate the energy to create an earthquake of a certain magnitude from a distance, as well as a hypothetical destruction of the realms using the inverse square law to promote consistency.

MoN Calc
This calc finds the power of the Blanks based on various time statements in the movie, as well as statements and visuals to confirm the size of the Kyogoku. A standard overtime feat calculation.

Obviously check out the blogs themselves for the scans. I'm not proposing any changes in scaling, so I'll leave the OP short and sweet. Please discuss.

Agree: Clover (MoN and WSK calc), KT (MoN calc), Tracer (MoN and WSK calc), Duedate (MoN calc), Damage (MoN calc, WSK realm bust calc)
Disagree: Damage (WSK quake calc), Duedate (WSK calc)
Neutral: KT (WSK calc)

Accepted: Both MoN Calc ends, WSK Realm Bust end
Rejected: WSK Quake end
 
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Seems like a good Manga with good calculations too.

I still haven't read Bleach, Waiting for Arc added a proof link to Ichigo's Ability description on his profile.
 
a colossal titan called Damage looms in the distance. How will the residents of Eldia (Bleach supporters) react
 
Jibz said:
a colossal titan called Damage looms in the distance. How will the residents of Eldia (Bleach supporters) react
Click to expand...
cheem1.gif
 
I am a bit unsure on both sets of calcs. Not in their math, but in their validity.

The first calc seems to imply that the soul society would be destroyed in an explosion once the Soul King died which isn't ever said or shown from what I remember, instead, it says they collapse and as we're shown this is just something that happens at the same time everywhere so I don't think it's usable. Now with the earthquake, my problem is that it assume the energy for the quake itself is transmitted from the origin of the Soul King's death and that said energy would travel the calculated distance between Soul Society and the Soul King Palace. However the Soul King Palace is in a separate dimension from Soul Society, and we're shown several different ways for people to get there, only one of them relies on traveling that distance as far as we're shown. So the problem is twofold here for me. One, none of the visual depictions of the manga and no statements support the quakes originating from the Soul King Palace itself. Two, due to these places being in two separate dimensions, I don't think we should assume that the energy that shakes the Soul Society and the Soul King Palace come from the same place. Especially since, there's no shared physical medium that would let the energy propagate from one place to the other.

To shorten that and maybe make it make more sense:
My issue with the first WSK calc is that the method of destruction described isn't ever implied or shown in the manga, and I feel what is shown points towards another method.
My issue with the second WSK calc is that the Soul King Palace and Soul Society are in two separate dimensions and there is nothing physically tying the two together to support the earthquakes that shake both areas coming directly from where the Soul King died.

In regards to Senna calcs, my problems are more simple.

For the first one, and since I haven't seen the movie, all I'm going to ask for is a scan that points towards the blanks having created the Valley of Screams since the scans present within the calc as support don't mention the blanks in the creation of the Valley of Screams.

And for the second one, I think my issue is just the same as the previous one that and I'm unsure why we wouldn't just use the full yield from creating the Valley of Screams since all that energy is being released in such a short time span that I feel it would be fair to just give that entire value instead of breaking it up by seconds.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Now with the earthquake, my problem is that it assume the energy for the quake itself is transmitted from the origin of the Soul King's death and that said energy would travel the calculated distance between Soul Society and the Soul King Palace
Click to expand...
How exactly is this such an outrageous assumption? it's quite literally stated within the manga that the cause of the earthquakes was the death of the Soul King, so of course the most logical assumption is that the epicenter of the earthquakes would be the Soul King.

If you can find counter evidence that Soul King isn't the epicenter than please show, but as of right now assuming that the quakes place of origin is the Soul King is the most logical assumption.

The fact we literally see Soul Society shaking gives a pretty good indicator that the energy from Soul King crossed the distance between the Soul King Palace to the Soul Society.

Duedate8898 said:
However the Soul King Palace is in a separate dimension from Soul Society, and we're shown several different ways for people to get there
Click to expand...
You aren't really contextualizing the "separate dimension" part, the Soul King Palace still exists within the Soul Society but it requires something like the Oken to enter it since there's some-sort of "wall" that surrounds the Soul King Palace which normally disallows entry to others without something like the Oken, one can travel to it through a physical distance as shown with Ichigo, Yhwach's Finger Beam, Aizen's Reiatsu and hell even Kukaku's firework cannon.

So this isn't an actual defeater to the calc either and honestly completely ignores multiple feats and statements that shows there's a physical distance.

Duedate8898 said:
One, none of the visual depictions of the manga and no statements support the quakes originating from the Soul King Palace itself
Click to expand...
This isn't a counter argument against Arc's points either and actually isn't even true.

Even if i steelman this argument about there being no statements nor visual depictions, this doesn't actually invalidate the calc inherently, you have to actually argue against the assumption that Arc is making with a equal/higher likelihood assumption or concrete statements/feats that prove him wrong.

You haven't done that.

Duedate8898 said:
due to these places being in two separate dimensions, I don't think we should assume that the energy that shakes the Soul Society and the Soul King Palace come from the same place. Especially since, there's no shared physical medium that would let the energy propagate from one place to the other.
Click to expand...
Already disproved that.

Why shouldn't we even though that's the most logically consistent assumption and one that's supported in the manga and light novels?

The physical medium is the physical distance between the Soul King Palace and The Soul Society, like we deadass have a physical medium for Soul King's Reiryoku to travel.

Everything else i can't really comment on since i don't agree with the theoretical realm destruction calc (the earthquake one makes the most sense narratively and logically) and i haven't watched MoN in years so i definitely can't comment on that.
 
Duedate8898 said:
In regards to Senna calcs, my problems are more simple.

For the first one, and since I haven't seen the movie, all I'm going to ask for is a scan that points towards the blanks having created the Valley of Screams since the scans present within the calc as support don't mention the blanks in the creation of the Valley of Screams.

And for the second one, I think my issue is just the same as the previous one that and I'm unsure why we wouldn't just use the full yield from creating the Valley of Screams since all that energy is being released in such a short time span that I feel it would be fair to just give that entire value instead of breaking it up by seconds.
Click to expand...
Not sure if these are the official translations given the vid I got them from was posted 12 years ago but here it says Blanks make the Valley of Screams. Arc can confirm later since it’s the same scene as where he got his 3 days evidence.
 
Deceived said:
How exactly is this such an outrageous assumption? it's quite literally stated within the manga that the cause of the earthquakes was the death of the Soul King, so of course the most logical assumption is that the epicenter of the earthquakes would be the Soul King.

If you can find counter evidence that Soul King isn't the epicenter than please show, but as of right now assuming that the quakes place of origin is the Soul King is the most logical assumption.

The fact we literally see Soul Society shaking gives a pretty good indicator that the energy from Soul King crossed the distance between the Soul King Palace to the Soul Society.
Click to expand...
It's an outrageous assumption because the only way for that energy to get from the Soul King Palace to the Soul Society would be through the air. And if the energy of an earthquake that reaches to the power of a large planet were to propagate through the air, it wouldn't just shake and knock down buildings, things would flatten and be destroyed not from the earth shaking below, but from the power coming from above. And that is not communicated in any form or shape. Unless we're assuming the energy transmits harmless through the air and then goes into the ground before finally doing damage.

That makes absolutely no sense.
Deceived said:
You aren't really contextualizing the "separate dimension" part, the Soul King Palace still exists within the Soul Society but it requires something like the Oken to enter it since there's some-sort of "wall" that surrounds the Soul King Palace which normally disallows entry to others without something like the Oken, one can travel to it through a physical distance as shown with Ichigo, Yhwach's Finger Beam, Aizen's Reiatsu and hell even Kukaku's firework cannon.

So this isn't an actual defeater to the calc either and honestly completely ignores multiple feats and statements that shows there's a physical distance.
Click to expand...
This actually brings up a big logically era in all of this then, because the calculated distance for the Soul King Palace away from Soul Society doesn't make sense if it isn't in a separate dimension with its own separate space. This is because the calculated distance currently used would put the Soul King Palace past the moon, which it clearly isn't. That or massively inflate the size of the Soul Society and the Earth, and we'd need a lot more evidence in the series for either of those things to be properly accepted.
Deceived said:
This isn't a counter argument against Arc's points either and actually isn't even true.

Even if i steelman this argument about there being no statements nor visual depictions, this doesn't actually invalidate the calc inherently, you have to actually argue against the assumption that Arc is making with a equal/higher likelihood assumption or concrete statements/feats that prove him wrong.

You haven't done that.
Click to expand...
Looking at the calc itself, the evidence given doesn't do anything to support the earthquake waves traveling over such an immense distance. All it does is support a powerful earthquake occurring within the Soul Society. None of it directly points towards
Deceived said:
Already disproved that.

Why shouldn't we even though that's the most logically consistent assumption and one that's supported in the manga and light novels?

The physical medium is the physical distance between the Soul King Palace and The Soul Society, like we deadass have a physical medium for Soul King's Reiryoku to travel.

Everything else i can't really comment on since i don't agree with the theoretical realm destruction calc (the earthquake one makes the most sense narratively and logically) and i haven't watched MoN in years so i definitely can't comment on that.
Click to expand...
I don't think you disproved my point.

And the assumption that's being asserted here is neither logical nor consistent nor supported by the manga or light novels. Only air would physically tie these places together, and I mentioned above the problem with assuming this force was transmitted through the air.

Edit: Correction to a statement
 
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Got to admit, the nature of those earthquake calcs utilizing the distance between the palace and the Soul Society don't make a lot of sense to me.

How exactly is this such an outrageous assumption? it's quite literally stated within the manga that the cause of the earthquakes was the death of the Soul King, so of course the most logical assumption is that the epicenter of the earthquakes would be the Soul King.
Click to expand...

I don't see why this would be the most logical assumption.
 
Duedate8898 said:
It's an outrageous assumption because the only way for that energy to get from the Soul King Palace to the Soul Society would be through the air. And if the energy of an earthquake that reaches to the power of a large planet were to propagate through the air, it wouldn't just shake and knock down buildings, things would flatten and be destroyed not from the earth shaking below, but from the power coming from above. And that is not communicated in any form or shape. Unless we're assuming the energy transmits harmless through the air and then goes into the ground before finally doing damage.

That makes absolutely no sense.
Click to expand...
Duedate this is quite literally an appeal to reality and again, an argument that doesn't actually attack the calc itself in a logical manner.

It's beyond common place within fiction where calculated feats grant insane values which would normally cause massive negative side effects to those around it but doesn't actually cause said side effects within Manga.

Because we're talking about fiction, created by authors who don't know physics and who don't understand the consequences of their statements from a physics standpoint.

This is tantamount to saying that no characters within fiction are at or above lightspeed since every time they go at lightspeed they don't destroy the planet through pure kinetic energy alone.

You aren't just attacking Arc's calc with this logic, you're attacking the inherent legitimacy of calcs all together.

Duedate8898 said:
This actually brings up a big logically era in all of this then, because the calculated distance for the Soul King Palace away from Soul Society doesn't make sense if it isn't in a separate dimension with its own separate space. This is because the calculated distance currently used would put the Soul King Palace past the moon, which it clearly isn't. That or massively inflate the size of the Soul Society and the Earth, and we'd need a lot more evidence in the series for either of those things to be properly accepted
Click to expand...
It's because Kubo doesn't really put a lot of thought into these statements and the ramifications behind said statements so he does shit like having the moon still behind the Soul King Palace despite the fact the consistent distance between the Soul King Palace and Soul Society is longer than the distance between the moon and the earth.

Honestly a completely valid argument could be made that the moon in the Soul Society is just farther away compared to the moon in the World of The Living.

There's really nothing that logically contradicts this in the context of a manga. (aka a fictional story)

Duedate8898 said:
Looking at the calc itself, the evidence given doesn't do anything to support the earthquake waves traveling over such an immense distance. All it does is support a powerful earthquake occurring within the Soul Society. None of it directly points towards
Click to expand...
It literally does? the epicenter of the earthquakes are clearly shown to be from the Soul King and is again shown after Yhwach became the Soul King the earthquakes stopped.

That's clear indication that the Soul King is the epicenter of the earthquakes and you haven't addressed this in a way that doesn't use logical fallacies like appeal to reality.

Duedate8898 said:
I don't think you disproved my point.

And the assumption that's being asserted here is neither logical nor consistent nor supported by the manga or light novels. Only air would physically tie these places together, and I mentioned above the problem with assuming this force was transmitted through the air.
Click to expand...
I've already addressed this point in this post above.
 
It literally does? the epicenter of the earthquakes are clearly shown to be from the Soul King and is again shown after Yhwach became the Soul King the earthquakes stopped.
That's clear indication that the Soul King is the epicenter of the earthquakes and you haven't addressed this in a way that doesn't use logical fallacies like appeal to reality.
Click to expand...

The death of the Soul King being the cause of the earthquakes is not the same thing as the epicenter of the energy of the quakes being the Soul King's corpse.
 
Damage3245 said:
The death of the Soul King being the cause of the earthquakes is not the same thing as the epicenter of the energy of the quakes being the Soul King's corpse.
Click to expand...
That’s not the claim. The claim is that it’s the most logical implication from that statement. No other explanation has been offered that has the same probability and intuitiveness as Deceived’s explanation.
 
Damage3245 said:
The death of the Soul King being the cause of the earthquakes is not the same thing as the epicenter of the energy of the quakes being the Soul King's corpse.
Click to expand...
You would have to prove he wasn't the epicenter of the earthquakes since the baseline assumption is that he was the epicenter since it was his Reiryoku keeping the planets in place.

You haven't provided an equal or even superior interpretation to this.
 
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