Jing ke tries assassinating another emperor

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

after failing to assassinate Qin Shi Huang. Jing ke decides to try her luck against Caligula can she succeed this time?

the assassin who failed to kill a king: 1 @DaReaperMan

insane roman emperor that was hated by his people: 1 @TypeOU

neither wins/incon: 1 @Expectro2000xxx

Rules:

Bloodlusted for both

Jing Ke has knowledge of Caligula

the battle takes place in a courtyard

Fight to the death

Note:

If the rules have any bias. feel free to point it out and i'll correct it to make things more fair. (Just in case) (i want to make sure the fight is fair and there isn't any bias to either side)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[DaReaperMan]

Pretty sure Jing Ke just NPs Caligula and probably outskills him severely, and Caligula's insanity doesn't incap either, but he can put the real hurt on Jing Ke if he manages to land a hit, so yeh.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Pretty sure Jing Ke just NPs Caligula and probably outskills him severely, and Caligula's insanity doesn't incap either, but he can put the real hurt on Jing Ke if he manages to land a hit, so yeh.

so a vote for jing ke?

 

[DaReaperMan]

so a vote for jing ke?

A vote for likely stomp/decisive

 

[TypeOU]

Jing ke should have a conceptual disadvantage against caligula due to her biggest legend being one where she fails to kill a king. It's not life-changing but deserves to be mentioned. Caligula has the ridiculously high stats of A+, B+ and B+, further enhanced by his A+ ranked mad enhancement (I'm just gonna assume his modifiers come from mad enhancement though, since it would be weirder if he just had them in every stat for no reason). His personal skills are imperial privilege, sadistic constitution and glory of the past days. The first two are either unusable or useless because of mad enhancement, leaving glory of the past days, a skill that can increase his damages but hurt him in return. At night, Caligula can also use his AOE NP to remove jing ke's sanity, neutralizing the skill advantage.

Jing ke stats are D, E and A, making her much weaker than Caligula, and even slower. Both of her personal skills help her with assassinations on top of her B ranked presence concealment.

Jing ke wins if she manages to use her np. If not, she instantly gets stomped by caligula overwhelming abilities. Assassins with A+ concealment can still be detected when they're about to attack, and Jing ke presence concealment is for everything but the attack, so the result would solely depend on Caligula ability to stop Jing ke attack.

With a higher agility and much higher strength, even if it's hard to evade, I feel like he should be able to do it just fine. Also, I'm assuming Jing ke starts the fight dissimulated, no way she is winning otherwise

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Jing ke should have a conceptual disadvantage against caligula due to her biggest legend being one where she fails to kill a king. It's not life-changing but deserves to be mentioned. Caligula has the ridiculously high stats of A+, B+ and B+, further enhanced by his A+ ranked mad enhancement (I'm just gonna assume his modifiers come from mad enhancement though, since it would be weirder if he just had them in every stat for no reason). His personal skills are imperial privilege, sadistic constitution and glory of the past days. The first two are either unusable or useless because of mad enhancement, leaving glory of the past days, a skill that can increase his damages but hurt him in return. At night, Caligula can also use his AOE NP to remove jing ke's sanity, neutralizing the skill advantage.

Jing ke stats are D, E and A, making her much weaker than Caligula, and even slower. Both of her personal skills help her with assassinations on top of her B ranked presence concealment.

Jing ke wins if she manages to use her np. If not, she instantly gets stomped by caligula overwhelming abilities. Assassins with A+ concealment can still be detected when they're about to attack, and Jing ke presence concealment is for everything but the attack, so the result would solely depend on Caligula ability to stop Jing ke attack.

With a higher agility and much higher strength, even if it's hard to evade, I feel like he should be able to do it just fine. Also, I'm assuming Jing ke starts the fight dissimulated, no way she is winning otherwise

map who are you voting?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Jing ke should have a conceptual disadvantage against caligula due to her biggest legend being one where she fails to kill a king. It's not life-changing but deserves to be mentioned. Caligula has the ridiculously high stats of A+, B+ and B+, further enhanced by his A+ ranked mad enhancement (I'm just gonna assume his modifiers come from mad enhancement though, since it would be weirder if he just had them in every stat for no reason). His personal skills are imperial privilege, sadistic constitution and glory of the past days. The first two are either unusable or useless because of mad enhancement, leaving glory of the past days, a skill that can increase his damages but hurt him in return. At night, Caligula can also use his AOE NP to remove jing ke's sanity, neutralizing the skill advantage.

Jing ke stats are D, E and A, making her much weaker than Caligula, and even slower. Both of her personal skills help her with assassinations on top of her B ranked presence concealment.

Jing ke wins if she manages to use her np. If not, she instantly gets stomped by caligula overwhelming abilities. Assassins with A+ concealment can still be detected when they're about to attack, and Jing ke presence concealment is for everything but the attack, so the result would solely depend on Caligula ability to stop Jing ke attack.

With a higher agility and much higher strength, even if it's hard to evade, I feel like he should be able to do it just fine. Also, I'm assuming Jing ke starts the fight dissimulated, no way she is winning otherwise

Issue is Jing Ke can just poof and NP Caligula since she's bloodlusted, so that'd be her first move, and since Caligula is literally insane in a massively debilitating way he wouldn't really respond until he's already hit or Jing Ke speaks her NP near him, which she probably wouldn't and as such, well, ya know.

Agility doesn't necessarily equal speed in Nasuverse, it's why the C-Rank Gilgamesh can handle Enkidu and such, and the stat advantage is mitigated further by the fact Jing Ke fought This guy.

Agility doesn't necessarily equal speed and strength is a given, the issue is the fight won't last long enough for Caligula to get anything real off.

 

[TypeOU]

Issue is Jing Ke can just poof and NP Caligula since she's bloodlusted, so that'd be her first move, and since Caligula is literally insane in a massively debilitating way he wouldn't really respond until he's already hit or Jing Ke speaks her NP near him, which she probably wouldn't and as such, well, ya know.

Jing Ke NP can only be used at close range. Dagger range specifically. And looking at other servants with mad enhancement, they definitively still know that dodging=good.

Agility doesn't necessarily equal speed in Nasuverse, it's why the C-Rank Gilgamesh can handle Enkidu and such, and the stat advantage is mitigated further by the fact Jing Ke fought This guy.

Who has the same agility rank as her, and overwhelmed her anyway. Just because a faster servant doesn't automatically blitz slower servants doesn't mean there's no difference. And agility definitively equals speed. (Agility (敏捷, Binshō?): Quickness and speed of reaction. source: fate/complete material III). Even if we assume not all servants are equal even with the same stats, there's no way Jing ke, a relatively low tier assassin, would be in a situation like that against Caligula, a famous and overwhelming berserker who could hold his own against multiple high tier servants.

Agility doesn't necessarily equal speed and strength is a given, the issue is the fight won't last long enough for Caligula to get anything real off.

Strength can also be used to stop an attack by grabbing the foe. Again, Jing Ke attack is a stab, and considering the difference in agility, Caligula would be able to catch her hand or punch her away more often than not.

edit: voting for caligula btw

 

[DaReaperMan]

Jing Ke NP can only be used at close range. Dagger range specifically. And looking at other servants with mad enhancement, they definitively still know that dodging=good.

Who has the same agility rank as her, and overwhelmed her anyway. Just because a faster servant doesn't automatically blitz slower servants doesn't mean there's no difference. And agility definitively equals speed. (Agility (敏捷, Binshō?): Quickness and speed of reaction. source: fate/complete material III). Even if we assume not all servants are equal even with the same stats, there's no way Jing ke, a relatively low tier assassin, would be in a situation like that against Caligula, a famous and overwhelming berserker who could hold his own against multiple high tier servants.

Strength can also be used to stop an attack by grabbing the foe. Again, Jing Ke attack is a stab, and considering the difference in agility, Caligula would be able to catch her hand or punch her away more often than not.

edit: voting for caligula btw

When it's coming from behind and he didn't hear her activate it? I don't think so.

All right let me gather my like two dozen feats of lower agility servants keeping up with faster ones... no seriously, there are way too many inconsistencies to take that statement seriously, such as Blackbeard keeping up with Francis Drake, a lot of the servant battles in FGO that involve Mash, Mordred keeping up with Enkidu very effectively, the list goes on. Your statement doesn't apply.

Early Mash? High tier? You uh, you may want to rethink that statement.

Considering Caligula's feat of speed is basically "can keep up with Nero and Mash" while we have Jing Ke at least being comparable to Edison who can keep up with Nightingale who has the exact same agility stat as Caligula... And this is assuming Caligula responds in such a way Jing Ke's blade never touches him.

Also, just remembered, Jing Ke actually gets a boost when trying to assassinate Emperors and the like, she did against Qin Shi huang in LB3.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

When it's coming from behind and he didn't hear her activate it? I don't think so.

All right let me gather my like two dozen feats of lower agility servants keeping up with faster ones... no seriously, there are way too many inconsistencies to take that statement seriously, such as Blackbeard keeping up with Francis Drake, a lot of the servant battles in FGO that involve Mash, Mordred keeping up with Enkidu very effectively, the list goes on. Your statement doesn't apply.

Early Mash? High tier? You uh, you may want to rethink that statement.

Considering Caligula's feat of speed is basically "can keep up with Nero and Mash" while we have Jing Ke at least being comparable to Edison who can keep up with Nightingale who has the exact same agility stat as Caligula... And this is assuming Caligula responds in such a way Jing Ke's blade never touches him.

Also, just remembered, Jing Ke actually gets a boost when trying to assassinate Emperors and the like, she did against Qin Shi huang in LB3.

your voting for Jing ke

so it’s a decisive victory but Caligula still has a chance

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

When it's coming from behind and he didn't hear her activate it? I don't think so.

All right let me gather my like two dozen feats of lower agility servants keeping up with faster ones... no seriously, there are way too many inconsistencies to take that statement seriously, such as Blackbeard keeping up with Francis Drake, a lot of the servant battles in FGO that involve Mash, Mordred keeping up with Enkidu very effectively, the list goes on. Your statement doesn't apply.

Early Mash? High tier? You uh, you may want to rethink that statement.

Considering Caligula's feat of speed is basically "can keep up with Nero and Mash" while we have Jing Ke at least being comparable to Edison who can keep up with Nightingale who has the exact same agility stat as Caligula... And this is assuming Caligula responds in such a way Jing Ke's blade never touches him.

Also, just remembered, Jing Ke actually gets a boost when trying to assassinate Emperors and the like, she did against Qin Shi huang in LB3.

Btw it’s not just Jing ke being bloodlusted but Caligula is also bloodlusted too.

what’s the SBA of the tiMe of day again?

do we generally assume it takes place during the day SBA?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Btw it’s not just Jing ke being bloodlusted but Caligula is also bloodlusted too.

what’s the SBA of the tiMe of day again?

do we generally assume it takes place during the day SBA?

It's day by SBA

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

It's day by SBA

So vote for Jing ke from you right?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yes

 

[TypeOU]

When it's coming from behind and he didn't hear her activate it? I don't think so.

why would he not hear her? And even if he didn't, he would feel her bloodlust like with every other assassin. And again, that's assuming she starts hidden

Early Mash? High tier? You uh, you may want to rethink that statement.

Early mash can take hits from saber alter and block her np. It might not be high tier by your standard since fate almost never shows low tier servants, but managing to overpower her AND Nero and only losing thanks to his personal weakness is absolutely a good feat.

All right let me gather my like two dozen feats of lower agility servants keeping up with faster ones... no seriously, there are way too many inconsistencies to take that statement seriously, such as Blackbeard keeping up with Francis Drake, a lot of the servant battles in FGO that involve Mash, Mordred keeping up with Enkidu very effectively, the list goes on. Your statement doesn't apply.

Considering Caligula's feat of speed is basically "can keep up with Nero and Mash" while we have Jing Ke at least being comparable to Edison who can keep up with Nightingale who has the exact same agility stat as Caligula... And this is assuming Caligula responds in such a way Jing Ke's blade never touches him.

Again, not being blitzed doesn't mean being just as fast. You can keep up with someone even while being 2 times slower. It's a very weak argument and only really used to give an approximation of their speeds for fights between different verses. Hell, Archer, the one most servants scale to speed-wise, is specifically mentionned to be slower than artoria/cu in his profile. And caligula doesn't have to dodge every attack, just the true name releases. Jing ke has a low mana stat and her np is B ranked, she can't exactly spam it.

Also, just remembered, Jing Ke actually gets a boost when trying to assassinate Emperors and the like, she did against Qin Shi huang in LB3.

How would you know that from the lb where, you know, she doesn't try to assassinate her target with her knife but with a virus? Maybe she talks about it but I'm gonna have to ask for a source.

 

[DaReaperMan]

why would he not hear her? And even if he didn't, he would feel her bloodlust like with every other assassin. And again, that's assuming she starts hidden

Early mash can take hits from saber alter and block her np. It might not be high tier by your standard since fate almost never shows low tier servants, but managing to overpower her AND Nero and only losing thanks to his personal weakness is absolutely a good feat.



Again, not being blitzed doesn't mean being just as fast. You can keep up with someone even while being 2 times slower. It's a very weak argument and only really used to give an approximation of their speeds for fights between different verses. Hell, Archer, the one most servants scale to speed-wise, is specifically mentionned to be slower than artoria/cu in his profile. And caligula doesn't have to dodge every attack, just the true name releases. Jing ke has a low mana stat and her np is B ranked, she can't exactly spam it.

How would you know that from the lb where, you know, she doesn't try to assassinate her target with her knife but with a virus? Maybe she talks about it but I'm gonna have to ask for a source.

Because she can activate her NP at practically any time out of his sight lines and such, and even if Caligula did see her/sense her, rushing headlong to her is only gonna get him killed immediately.

Mash is a stone wall mate, she had a Low 6-B shield at that time, also she had help from Caster Cu for that battle, who has proven himself to be a capable fighter at the best of times. Also since we didn't see much of that fight the movie can be used since it replicates what we do know happened, so Mash didn't do much for the fight besides block. Also her track record isn't exactly the best in the world as she needed help for nearly every fight she had against a singular servant until Camelot came around and boosted her ass to where she could actually beat Saberlot head on

You make it sound like some big blitz-worthy advantage, and even then it wouldn't be a big enough advantage to matter even if you were correct. Your right, he doesn't have to dodge every attack, but him being a berserker, he's gonna rush in and get stabbed for it due to massive skill advantage.

Because I very distinctly remember Jing Ke stating it herself that she was boosted.

 

[TypeOU]

Because she can activate her NP at practically any time out of his sight lines and such, and even if Caligula did see her/sense her, rushing headlong to her is only gonna get him killed immediately.

No she can't. It's a close range NP.

Mash is a stone wall mate, she had a Low 6-B shield at that time, also she had help from Caster Cu for that battle, who has proven himself to be a capable fighter at the best of times. Also since we didn't see much of that fight the movie can be used since it replicates what we do know happened, so Mash didn't do much for the fight besides block.

I absolutely didn't say she defeated salter by herself, I said she could take hits and block an NP. But against salter, that's more than enough to show your power. Especially since it was also a 2v1 situation against caligula

You make it sound like some big blitz-worthy advantage, and even then it wouldn't be a big enough advantage to matter even if you were correct. Your right, he doesn't have to dodge every attack, but him being a berserker, he's gonna rush in and get stabbed for it due to massive skill advantage.

Being 2 times faster than an opponent is more than enough to help. The np is a single stab and need you to reveal your true name, the skill advantage really doesn't matter here.

Because I very distinctly remember Jing Ke stating it herself that she was boosted.

Source?

 

[DaReaperMan]

No she can't. It's a close range NP.

I absolutely didn't say she defeated salter by herself, I said she could take hits and block an NP. But against salter, that's more than enough to show your power. Especially since it was also a 2v1 situation against caligula

Being 2 times faster than an opponent is more than enough to help. The np is a single stab and need you to reveal your true name, the skill advantage really doesn't matter here.

Source?

Where is it stated that Jing Ke has to stab immediately after activating her NP? Where's it stated she needs to stab in the first place? Nowhere.

Again, Mash has a Low 6-B shield, that isn't power its just being a tanky *****.

Where's it stated it's a 2x speed advantage? At best it'd be unquantifiable otherwise.

One of the last times, if not the last time Jing Ke speaks with Fujimaru in SIN. I don't feel like spending the time to grab a time stamp and such for it.

 

[TypeOU]

Where is it stated that Jing Ke has to stab immediately after activating her NP? Where's it stated she needs to stab in the first place? Nowhere.

Her NP is litterally a stab? What do you even think she does? telepathically poison her opponent?

Again, Mash has a Low 6-B shield, that isn't power its just being a tanky *****.

and again, caligula was dealing damages through that.

Where's it stated it's a 2x speed advantage? At best it'd be unquantifiable otherwise.

You know we were using an example right? Well, B+ is still twice B, so it should come pretty close to twice A, but you're right that it's a bit less.

One of the last times, if not the last time Jing Ke speaks with Fujimaru in SIN. I don't feel like spending the time to grab a time stamp and such for it.

Wasn't that whole discussion a lie so that they would allow her to try to assassinate QSH? She failed to assassinate an emperor, no way that would give her an advantage. She was even detected the instant she penetrated QSH room.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Her NP is litterally a stab? What do you even think she does? telepathically poison her opponent?

and again, caligula was dealing damages through that.

You know we were using an example right? Well, B+ is still twice B, so it should come pretty close to twice A, but you're right that it's a bit less.

Wasn't that whole discussion a lie so that they would allow her to try to assassinate QSH? She failed to assassinate an emperor, no way that would give her an advantage. She was even detected the instant she penetrated QSH room.

It's a stab because it just so happens that's the easiest way to get the poison in, the animations we see aren't exactly the full use of the NP 9/10

So your arguing Caligula is Low 6-B now, is that it? Are you going to use blatant wank as an argument?

I for one don't exactly see the logic behind that, otherwise we'd have multipliers being used for whatever reason.

Uh, no? Wasn't stated anywhere off the top of my head. The very act that got Jing Ke memorialized in history in the first place is being the one closest to assassinating Qin Shi Huang, so yeah, it'd make sense if Jing was boosted.

This is the same Qin Shi Huang who saw Koyanskaya's spirit origin and heavily implied he could see every other servant's spirit origin, I don't think Presence concealment B was gonna cut it considering its one of the reasons he has enhanced senses and Extrasensory Perception.

 

[TypeOU]

It's a stab because it just so happens that's the easiest way to get the poison in, the animations we see aren't exactly the full use of the NP 9/10

The np is litterally stabbing your opponent with the dsgger to poison them. Seriously, stop trying to ignore the very principle of the move

So your arguing Caligula is Low 6-B now, is that it? Are you going to use blatant wank as an argument?

Did I say anything like that?

I for one don't exactly see the logic behind that, otherwise we'd have multipliers being used for whatever reason.

We don't use them because it's a pain. Attacks from artoria bounces off heracles skin, and he can one shot her back, you really think he wouldn't get to the next tier with that? Of course he would, it's just impossible to differentiate those that are from those that aren't so they're kept in the same tier.

Uh, no? Wasn't stated anywhere off the top of my head. The very act that got Jing Ke memorialized in history in the first place is being the one closest to assassinating Qin Shi Huang, so yeah, it'd make sense if Jing was boosted.

It's failing. Not being the one closest to doing it, but out of all her assassination attempts, the one against an emperor being the one that failed. Every single mention of her failure paints it as a bad thing, not ",she was close!", but at most, "if only things had gone differently".

This is the same Qin Shi Huang who saw Koyanskaya's spirit origin and heavily implied he could see every other servant's spirit origin, I don't think Presence concealment B was gonna cut it considering its one of the reasons he has enhanced senses and Extrasensory Perception

Which doesn't change the fact that she was detected, and knew she would be detected. Not one instant did she believe kn her own words, whether it was the possibility of assassinating him or the conceptual advantage.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The np is litterally stabbing your opponent with the dsgger to poison them. Seriously, stop trying to ignore the very principle of the move

Did I say anything like that?

We don't use them because it's a pain. Attacks from artoria bounces off heracles skin, and he can one shot her back, you really think he wouldn't get to the next tier with that? Of course he would, it's just impossible to differentiate those that are from those that aren't so they're kept in the same tier.

It's failing. Not being the one closest to doing it, but out of all her assassination attempts, the one against an emperor being the one that failed. Every single mention of her failure paints it as a bad thing, not ",she was close!", but at most, "if only things had gone differently".

Which doesn't change the fact that she was detected, and knew she would be detected. Not one instant did she believe kn her own words, whether it was the possibility of assassinating him or the conceptual advantage.

You realize that NPs like Bedivere's shit all over this right? I for one didn't at all see the big ass flash of light that comes from activating his arm and attacking with it every single time in the Camelot movie for instance. I don't see Leonidas summoning 300 Spartans in his NP animation for another example.

"and again, caligula was dealing damages through that."
Yes. Yes you did.

Herc has both inconsistent defenses and an NP that literally gives him Invulnerability to attacks under A-Rank, and was it stated Herc was gonna one-shot Saber?

I'm wondering what your reading because the reason the attempt failed the first time in Fate canon was because Jing Ke hesitated.

Not only was being detected a part of her plan so she could sick a virus on Qin Shi Huang, but the second part of your argument was never stated nor implied, like, seriously, where are you getting that from?

 

[TypeOU]

You realize that NPs like Bedivere's shit all over this right? I for one didn't at all see the big ass flash of light that comes from activating his arm and attacking with it every single time in the Camelot movie for instance.

Yeah? That's why it's called true name release? Because it's more than just a normal attack?

I don't see Leonidas summoning 300 Spartans in his NP animation for another example.

it's a day 1 animation, not exactly expected to be accurate, check out the arcade version

"and again, caligula was dealing damages through that."
Yes. Yes you did.

I was obviously talking about Mash without releasing her noble phantasm.

Herc has both inconsistent defenses and an NP that literally gives him Invulnerability to attacks under A-Rank, and was it stated Herc was gonna one-shot Saber?

Which doesn't matter because saber has a A++ ranked weapon. And yes, it was. Multiple times at that. giving an example.

"Saber doesn’t have the time to dodge it and blocks it with her sword.
It does not matter if Saber’s sword is invisible or not.
Each of Berserker’s attacks is a fatal one that must be blocked with all her might."

His speed was also called overwhelming despite the difference being slightly lower than caligula/Jing Ke.

I'm wondering what your reading because the reason the attempt failed the first time in Fate canon was because Jing Ke hesitated.

Do you think the world cares about that? It's called a conceptual disadvantage for a reason. She failed, so that makes her an assassin who failed to kill an emperor.

Not only was being detected a part of her plan so she could sick a virus on Qin Shi Huang, but the second part of your argument was never stated nor implied, like, seriously, where are you getting that from?

Think about what you just said. Where does her conceptual advantage in her plan to be found before she even got close to qin shi huang and hack him with something that isn't related to her legend? It's litterally revealed right after she talks to ritsuka that she lied so that he would let her do it. And burden of proof is still on you btw, you can't exactly ask me to give sources for my claim that your unsourced claim is wrong.

Do you really not have anything else to do? Because with no one else to participate, arguing the obvious with you is a waste of my time

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah? That's why it's called true name release? Because it's more than just a normal attack?

it's a day 1 animation, not exactly expected to be accurate, check out the arcade version



I was obviously talking about Mash without releasing her noble phantasm.

Which doesn't matter because saber has a A++ ranked weapon. And yes, it was. Multiple times at that. giving an example.

"Saber doesn’t have the time to dodge it and blocks it with her sword.
It does not matter if Saber’s sword is invisible or not.
Each of Berserker’s attacks is a fatal one that must be blocked with all her might."

His speed was also called overwhelming despite the difference being slightly lower than caligula/Jing Ke.

Do you think the world cares about that? It's called a conceptual disadvantage for a reason. She failed, so that makes her an assassin who failed to kill an emperor.

Think about what you just said. Where does her conceptual advantage in her plan to be found before she even got close to qin shi huang and hack him with something that isn't related to her legend? It's litterally revealed right after she talks to ritsuka that she lied so that he would let her do it. And burden of proof is still on you btw, you can't exactly ask me to give sources for my claim that your unsourced claim is wrong.

Do you really not have anything else to do? Because with no one else to participate, arguing the obvious with you is a waste of my time

Artlegram isn't a normal attack in the movies either.

Mash's shield is a Low 6-B defense, Lord Chaldeas essentially increases how big the range of protection is really.

Then I can just call it an inconsistency and be done with it due to Herc being inconsistent on defense.

Heracles wasn't "overwhelming" to someone with a lesser agility stat than Artoria in Gil, another inconsistency.

Where? I actually went to check and I don't see Jing lying to Ritsuka at all there.

Did you forget Jing Ke's second skill existed for a moment?

 

[TypeOU]

Artlegram isn't a normal attack in the movies either.

slashing something with a sword is. To begin with, the true name release is the beam of light, saying that he released it without the light makes absolutely no sense.

Mash's shield is a Low 6-B defense, Lord Chaldeas essentially increases how big the range of protection is really.

It's not. I don't know where you got that, but her profile doesn't mention her shield base durability in any way. Even mana defense, a skill used to enhance her shield, is only massively higher than her base durability rather than 6-B

Then I can just call it an inconsistency and be done with it due to Herc being inconsistent on defense.

what a funny game, "as long as it works against me, it's an inconsistency!"

Heracles wasn't "overwhelming" to someone with a lesser agility stat than Artoria in Gil, another inconsistency.

Or, and listen to me here, it's harder to overwhelm someone with hundred of weapons who doesn't need to move than someone with one that does?

Where? I actually went to check and I don't see Jing lying to Ritsuka at all there.

And I checked and she doesn't mention having a conceptual advantage even once. Only that she was chosen by the CF because she doesn't back down in front of death. You know you were trying to prove something right? Sure, I got my part wrong, but if both your affirmation and my answer are wrong, you're still the one at a loss.

Did you forget Jing Ke's second skill existed for a moment?

I don't see how that skill is relevant in any way besides the fact that it basically guarantees that any fight where she manage to kill caligula is a draw

 

[DaReaperMan]

slashing something with a sword is. To begin with, the true name release is the beam of light, saying that he released it without the light makes absolutely no sense.

It's not. I don't know where you got that, but her profile doesn't mention her shield base durability in any way. Even mana defense, a skill used to enhance her shield, is only massively higher than her base durability rather than 6-B

what a funny game, "as long as it works against me, it's an inconsistency!"

Or, and listen to me here, it's harder to overwhelm someone with hundred of weapons who doesn't need to move than someone with one that does?

And I checked and she doesn't mention having a conceptual advantage even once. Only that she was chosen by the CF because she doesn't back down in front of death. You know you were trying to prove something right? Sure, I got my part wrong, but if both your affirmation and my answer are wrong, you're still the one at a loss.

I don't see how that skill is relevant in any way besides the fact that it basically guarantees that any fight where she manage to kill caligula is a draw

Switch on is the activation, not the beam of light.

Yes, because her profile is frankly bad and needs an overhaul.

A++ weapon. Invulnerable to anything below an A-rank attack. Need I say more?

If someone is fast enough to overwhelm someone superior in speed, from your logic, then obviously someone slower should be extra overwhelmed GoB spam or not.

Nobody ever says anything about a conceptual advantage most of the time in Nasuverse, Jing Ke only says she's boosted... also Mordred doesn't really give a rats ass about dying either, if she needs to do it she'll do it.

It's relevant in our debate because it basically solves your issue with Jing Ke using a virus on someone who transmitted their consciousness to a computer. She was then caught off guard by Qin not only being able to get around that, but having a grand servant-level body just lying around

 

[TypeOU]

Switch on is the activation, not the beam of light.

No. Dead end is the activation/true name release, and it's a beam of light
"A constantly active-type of Noble Phantasm. By releasing the True Name with the words "Flash, Silver-Colored Arm (Dead End・Airgetlam)", a anti-army extermination attack is performed."

"
Dead End・Argetlam
Flash, Silver Arm

Rank: A+
Type: Anti-Unit・Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
Range: 1~40
Maximum target: 300 person


Dead End・Argetlam.
A slash special move utilizing the silver arm that concealed a colossal amount of magic energy.
Only possible to be activated during the time of Switch On・Argetlam's combat activation.
A flashing anti-unit, anti-army annihilation attack that blazes on the enemy line by means of "hand swing"."

Source: Bedivere profile + fgo material IV

Yes, because her profile is frankly bad and needs an overhaul.

It doesn't, you don't get to just decide on your own that her shield is island level without np release without showing proofs and despite obvious counter feats of not taking every attack thrown at us.

A++ weapon. Invulnerable to anything below an A-rank attack. Need I say more?

You're definitively not saying what you think you're saying. A++ is higher than A (well, equal since it works based on rank), so he tanked it on his durability

If someone is fast enough to overwhelm someone superior in speed, from your logic, then obviously someone slower should be extra overwhelmed GoB spam or not.

Aside from the wrong idea you seem to have that gilgamesh is slower than artoria even though he was winning the one time they fought with their weapons... GoB spam absolutely make someone go from "overwhelmed" to "overwhelming", and even trying to argue otherwise just show how low you've fallen.

Nobody ever says anything about a conceptual advantage most of the time in Nasuverse, Jing Ke only says she's boosted... also Mordred doesn't really give a rats ass about dying either, if she needs to do it she'll do it.

And she and Spartacus were summoned in the lostbelt. Not that it matters, because I was just disproving your lie.

It's relevant in our debate because it basically solves your issue with Jing Ke using a virus on someone who transmitted their consciousness to a computer. She was then caught off guard by Qin not only being able to get around that, but having a grand servant-level body just lying around

It's really not. No need for a skill to hack the sole electronic device of a world. The whole point was that because he is the only electronic device, there's no way he would use an anti-virus or anything like that. But again, that's beside the point anyways in the current predicament, except in making it so that caligula is guaranteed to not lose since Jing Ke HAS to trade her life for his if she wants to win, which is definitively not what you're trying to prove..

 

[DaReaperMan]

No. Dead end is the activation/true name release, and it's a beam of light
"A constantly active-type of Noble Phantasm. By releasing the True Name with the words "Flash, Silver-Colored Arm (Dead End・Airgetlam)", a anti-army extermination attack is performed."

"
Dead End・Argetlam
Flash, Silver Arm

Rank: A+
Type: Anti-Unit・Anti-Army Noble Phantasm
Range: 1~40
Maximum target: 300 person


Dead End・Argetlam.
A slash special move utilizing the silver arm that concealed a colossal amount of magic energy.
Only possible to be activated during the time of Switch On・Argetlam's combat activation.
A flashing anti-unit, anti-army annihilation attack that blazes on the enemy line by means of "hand swing"."

Source: Bedivere profile + fgo material IV

It doesn't, you don't get to just decide on your own that her shield is island level without np release without showing proofs and despite obvious counter feats of not taking every attack thrown at us.

You're definitively not saying what you think you're saying. A++ is higher than A (well, equal since it works based on rank), so he tanked it on his durability

Aside from the wrong idea you seem to have that gilgamesh is slower than artoria even though he was winning the one time they fought with their weapons... GoB spam absolutely make someone go from "overwhelmed" to "overwhelming", and even trying to argue otherwise just show how low you've fallen.

And she and Spartacus were summoned in the lostbelt. Not that it matters, because I was just disproving your lie.

It's really not. No need for a skill to hack the sole electronic device of a world. The whole point was that because he is the only electronic device, there's no way he would use an anti-virus or anything like that. But again, that's beside the point anyways in the current predicament, except in making it so that caligula is guaranteed to not lose since Jing Ke HAS to trade her life for his if she wants to win, which is definitively not what you're trying to prove..

Then I was wrong there, neat.

I guess someone forgot what happened to Mash in Solomon... and what was left behind without even a scratch on it. Mash's shield durability scales to her Defensive NP. To say otherwise is to contradict the source. And the "counter feats" are kinda resolved when you realize Mash can't be everywhere at once and can't put her shield everywhere at once either.

This is the same guy who was unharmed by an indirect hit from an A-rank Anti-Army Noble Phantasm on drugs and then gets completely murdered by a direct hit from something which reasonably should be weaker. His durability is inconsistent, and that's just one of multiple occurrences.

Artoria has B-Rank agility, Gil has C-Rank agility, so you just contradicted yourself. Unfortunately, if Heracles had the speed advantage claimed, GoB wouldn't really save Gil unless he used a **** of a lot more weapons then he actually used, he never ramped up to hundreds in that fight.

When did I lie? Or do you really think that just because Jing Ke had her plan actually go mostly right and only lost due to things she couldn't have accounted for=she wasn't amped for it.

Yes, because it was the optimal choice, why the **** would she try to stab someone for who all she knows is a Machine

Caligula isn't one-shotting, end or discussion there.

 

[TypeOU]

I guess someone forgot what happened to Mash in Solomon... and what was left behind without even a scratch on it. Mash's shield durability scales to her Defensive NP. To say otherwise is to contradict the source. And the "counter feats" are kinda resolved when you realize Mash can't be everywhere at once and can't put her shield everywhere at once either.

She was using lord camelot true name release back then. Sure, she's not protected (as much as her allies) by her np, but the shield itself is a medium for the protection, so of course it wouldn't be damaged if it successfully blocked an attack.

And by counter feats, I mean there are moments where she is repelled even after blocking with her shield, not just being wounded in battle.

This is the same guy who was unharmed by an indirect hit from an A-rank Anti-Army Noble Phantasm on drugs and then gets completely murdered by a direct hit from something which reasonably should be weaker. His durability is inconsistent, and that's just one of multiple occurrences.

What A-rank noble phantasm? At least in stay night, I can't think of any big attack that didn't manage to kill him at least once. Cadaldbog killed him, caliburn killed him, excalibur could kill him 12 times, bellerophon could kill him...

Artoria has B-Rank agility, Gil has C-Rank agility, so you just contradicted yourself. Unfortunately, if Heracles had the speed advantage claimed, GoB wouldn't really save Gil unless he used a **** of a lot more weapons then he actually used, he never ramped up to hundreds in that fight.

Her agility is C-ranked under shirou.

and what fight did you even watch/reader? He released dozens of weapons with every attack, do you think overwhelming speed means 100 times faster?

When did I lie? Or do you really think that just because Jing Ke had her plan actually go mostly right and only lost due to things she couldn't have accounted for=she wasn't amped for it.

Dude, the line isn't in the lostbelt, I checked the specific scene you mentionned. So give a source or give up

Yes, because it was the optimal choice, why the **** would she try to stab someone for who all she knows is a Machine

That's still not relevant to the conversation at hand. It doesn't take a skill to know that a virus would be effective against the sole electronic device of a world... For the second time.

Caligula isn't one-shotting, end or discussion there.

sure he isn't with A+ strength+2 skills increasing his strength+Jing ke kit costing her her safety+against E-ranked endurance. Heracles with no mad enhancement (restrained except during the fight late in the fate route) or other skill to enhance his strength could one shot Artoria, who has C in endurance, and you're trying to tell me Caligula can't against a weaker foe?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Can we get more fgo supporters here?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Jing Ke "weakness" against emperors is a thing that only apply especifically to Qin Shi Huang since her legend is that she couldn't kill him? Also, even with said weakness she would have killed Qin in SIN if it wasn't do to unfortunate events like that Qin just finished to analyze Yu body and created his own zhenren (was called that?) vessel, which is something that in this case obviously isn't gonna happen.

That said though Caligula indeed would **** her a lot with every attack and Jing Ke isn't gonna do much damage, so she have two options: 1) Try to take distance and hide to use her assassin abilities to the most, thing that could be difficult considering how close they begin, but that at the same time could be possible by taking advantage of his maddness. 2) throw precaution out of the window and just go straight with her NP for the kill, this would result in she taking serious damage, damage possibly even fatal but would surely kill Caligula since his maddness probably isn't gonna make him dodge or actually care of the damage he take, she also have the weakness about not caring for her life if her objetive die so this realistically is probably the option she is more prone to take.

I vote inco since I think this quite probably end in doble KO, and even the options in which one of them survive have more or less equal chances so yeah, more reason to vote inco.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump


we need more supporters here

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

can we finish this


Bump