Question about dragon ball universe size

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Not interested in content revision, but why we don't consider the dragon ball universe as infinite in size? There are multiple statements saying so.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fc01fee8-f42c-4b8f-a292-8b71a3e3bf65/scale-to-width/755

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/feb24aba-19c2-4c35-b056-3a7b3bc2dee3/scale-to-width/755

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/d5142286-5a30-4ffb-986d-9fd9a358c7d2/scale-to-width/755

https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/669891148143394826/720185966123286538/universe.PNG

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/liberproeliis/images/5/5c/Daiz4-pag20.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/264?cb=20190713022613&path-prefix=pt-br

Translations:

"The Darkness that stretches out into infinity and illuminates galaxies"

The Universe: "An infinite space filled with light and darkness"

https://www.*********.co.in/videos/dragon-ball-gt-episode-2

"boundless galaxies"

 

[Vietthai96]

Idk, but i think it is because in DBS Bulma said the universe have center and an edge

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Reason 1 is because a lot of people tend to be cherry picky with the definition of endless and claim it just means seemingly no end as opposed to outright having no end. But the dictionary says it could mean one or the other and even multiple American English speakers agree endless should qualify for possibly infinite.

The other is that "Infinitely expansive" implies that it's not quite infinite but grows and approaches infinite as opposed to being literally infinite. But there also wouldn't even be an edge in the first place if it was truly infinite on a 3-D scale.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Reason 1 is because a lot of people tend to be cherry picky with the definition of endless and claim it just means seemingly no end as opposed to outright having no end. But the dictionary says it could mean one or the other and even multiple American English speakers agree endless should qualify for possibly infinite.

The other is that "Infinitely expansive" implies that it's not quite infinite but grows and approaches infinite as opposed to being literally infinite. But there also wouldn't even be an edge in the first place if it was truly infinite on a 3-D scale.

So if it has an edge, no matter how many times it is said that the universe is infinite/endless/boundless in size, the universe cannot qualify for infinite size?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Never quite said that, but there will be a lot of skepticism and some people might consider other feats rather outlierish, such as Whis having Infinite speed and what not.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Never quite said that, but there will be a lot of skepticism and some people might consider other feats rather outlierish, such as Whis having Infinite speed and what not.

Hmm, i see. But why would Whis have infinite speed? I personally don't remember beerus planet being infinitely far from earth.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

By the way, the observable universe stated to have an edge does not contradict the universe having infinite size. The living world itself is stated infinite in size, but the universe is stated infinitely expanding and galaxies streching into infinity and such. This is consistent because the farthest reaches of the universe have no light reaching them example yakons planet, and the rest of the living world or outer space is actually infinite. So I believe that the living world being infinite is totally plausible.

 

[Vietthai96]

Hmm, i see. But why would Whis have infinite speed? I personally don't remember beerus planet being infinitely far from earth.

Whis and to an extend Vados literally fly to other universe, they also can fly to Zeno palace with obviously outside of 12 universes

 

[Quantu]

In relation to Whis, Infinite speed Whis is a big no-no considering he actually has to spend TIME travelling to places multiple times in the series
and the fact he's slower than IT and Kai Kai

 

[Vietthai96]

In relation to Whis, Infinite speed Whis is a big no-no considering he actually has to spend TIME travelling to places multiple times in the series
and the fact he's slower than IT and Kai Kai

Another God Tier level of argument, sure, using daily life activities to debunk speed. Goku should be supersonic considering he is FTL but still take time to eat one bowl of food

 

[Quantu]

That's not the same and you know it

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

In relation to Whis, Infinite speed Whis is a big no-no considering he actually has to spend TIME travelling to places multiple times in the series
and the fact he's slower than IT and Kai Kai

That's not a contradiction. You can take time to travel an infinite distance, it's still considered infinite speed. And that's not true lmao, granolah and gas have multiple feats of outpacing instant transmission. If anything, infinite speed is terrifyingly consistent.

 

[Quantu]

Can't wait for the infinite speed upgrade thread then

 

[Antvasima]

Taking considerable time travelling from Beerus' planet to Earth, for example, does seem to contradict that Whis has infinite speed though.

Also, as Medeus said, infinitely expanding/expanding towards infinity is not the same as saying that the material universe is already infinite to start with.

 

[Romeu08]

That's not a contradiction. You can take time to travel an infinite distance, it's still considered infinite speed. And that's not true lmao, granolah and gas have multiple feats of outpacing instant transmission. If anything, infinite speed is terrifyingly consistent.

Make a crt on this

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Taking considerable time travelling from Beerus' planet to Earth, for example, does seem to contradict that Whis has infinite speed though.

Also, as Medeus said, infinitely expanding/expanding towards infinity is not the same as saying that the material universe is already infinite to start with.

Not really. I heard that taking time to travel an infinite distance still qualifies for infinite speed.
The statements infinitely expanding apply to the observable universe and the infinitely expansive statements apply to outer space or the entire living world. This also expains how the universe has an edge and a center.

 

[Antvasima]

Not really. I heard that taking time to travel an infinite distance still qualifies for infinite speed.

As far as I recall, Earth and Beerus' planet are not infinitely far apart though.

The statements infinitely expanding apply to the observable universe and the infinitely expansive statements apply to outer space or the entire living world. This also expains how the universe has an edge and a center.

Do you have proof for this, or is it speculation?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

As far as I recall, Earth and Beerus' planet are not infinitely far apart though.

Do you have proof for this, or is it speculation?

They probably are since beerus' planet is implied to be in a different dimension. Or you know, whis is holding back.
Yeah the proof is the numerous statements of it being infinite. It would look much more better in a CRT format but I'm too lazy to start one.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Yeah the proof is the numerous statements of it being infinite. It would look much more better in a CRT format but I'm too lazy to start one.

Same.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. It seems best if you start a content revision thread with proper good justifications if you want infinite speed for Whis and the other angels.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Hmm. It seems best if you start a content revision thread with proper good justifications if you want infinite speed for Whis and the other angels.

That wouldn't just upgrade the angels to infinite speed. That would upgrade all DBS characters (that scale above base Goku) to high 3-A and infinite speed.
However I'm too lazy and busy right now.

 

[Orange]

Reason 1 is because a lot of people tend to be cherry picky with the definition of endless and claim it just means seemingly no end as opposed to outright having no end. But the dictionary says it could mean one or the other and even multiple American English speakers agree endless should qualify for possibly infinite.

The other is that "Infinitely expansive" implies that it's not quite infinite but grows and approaches infinite as opposed to being literally infinite. But there also wouldn't even be an edge in the first place if it was truly infinite on a 3-D scale.

1- Endless is a synonymous for infinite yes, but but depends on the woridmg, contact etc....plus the other statements saying the words infinite or infinite, means that endless is used as a synonyms. Plus the quote says "Galaxies that exists infinitely in all of the universe". Which could either mean that they exist for infinite time, or there are infinite numbers of characters that exists in the universe.
2- How so? Your argument would only make sense if the the quote says "infinitely expanding". The quote says "infinitely expansive", which would mean that the space [of whatever that is called expansive in the context] covers and infinite area, or its infinitely large.
3- The only true debunk, is maybe bulma saying that the universe has an edge. But it's one statement against many so it falls short.
4- weither the feats are legit or outlier shouldn't dismiss the universe being infinite. [It isn't since it's not accepted for now.]

 

[Antvasima]

So what, if anything, is currently left to do here?

 

[StekFence]

Or you know, whis is holding back.

Didn’t whis say it’s the fastest he’s ever gone?

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Hmm. It seems best if you start a content revision thread with proper good justifications if you want infinite speed for Whis and the other angels.

That would be hard. We are probably removing infinite speed/immeasurable speed from sailor moon cause she lacks the consistency of infinite speed feats. Same with Db, since none of them have shown infinite speed feats directly so far. Best we can do is infinite range or infinite attack speed IF and only IF db universe is accepted as infinite.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Idk about whis being infinite speed. He took a finite amount of time to travel from point A to point B in the universe. You would have to prove the spaces between these two points are infinite, not just that the world itself is infinite.

Also, aren't all the universes in Dragonball Super connected spatially as one can physically fly from one universe to another? You'd have to prove that is it, each universe that's infinite in size, or is it the fabric that the universes are in that is infinite in size.

 

[Orange]

DBS universe are spatially and temporarily disconnected from each other. They are accepted as seperate space times.

 

[KLOL506]

I'm guessing there was never a proper blog made about Dragon Ball cosmology. I also remember one of the guidebooks with Final Form Frieza on it as a picture where it says that beyond the light of the observable universe exists a darkness that spans to infinity with countless unspeakable horrors or some shit (EDIT- NVM it's the last scan).

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The Daizenshuu is so funny.

The Daizenshuu 4 alone describes the Living World as "endless, expansive" and "infinitely expansive" while only saying that it is the only part of the macrocosm that resembles our IRL universe.

 

[Orange]

So, there about like...5 statements of the universe being infinite [more if you count koyama] against like...what, 2 being non infinite?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

DBS universe are spatially and temporarily disconnected from each other. They are accepted as seperate space times.

I'm guessing there was never a proper blog made about Dragon Ball cosmology. I also remember one of the guidebooks with Final Form Frieza on it as a picture where it says that beyond the light of the observable universe exists a darkness that spans to infinity with countless unspeakable horrors or some shit (EDIT- NVM it's the last scan).

If these are both true, then I don't see why the universes aren't infinite. But you'd need evidence of characters reaching this darkness, physically or with their attacks.

 

[Orange]

If these are both true, then I don't see why the universes aren't infinite. But you'd need evidence of characters reaching this darkness, physically or with their attacks.

The only canon feats are : Beerus and goku's shockwaves and ki attacks reaching the entire macrocosm in under a minute, whis travelling into different universes and into Zeno's palace, hit travelling from U7 to U6 [i could be wrong.] Angles performing the same feat as whis, vados and champa instantly travalling from U6 to U7 [some say it's teleportation, but eh.]

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I'm guessing there was never a proper blog made about Dragon Ball cosmology. I also remember one of the guidebooks with Final Form Frieza on it as a picture where it says that beyond the light of the observable universe exists a darkness that spans to infinity with countless unspeakable horrors or some shit (EDIT- NVM it's the last scan).

i linked it, yes.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

So what, if anything, is currently left to do here?

The reason i opened this was because i wanted to know why exactly infinite universe of db is not accepted despite multiple statements of it being infinite. Pretty sure the discussion is still ongoing. If you count them, there are 6 statements, 7 including GT that states the universe is infinite , each backing each other up.

So, there about like...5 statements of the universe being infinite [more if you count koyama] against like...what, 2 being non infinite?

7 in total actually.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm guessing there was never a proper blog made about Dragon Ball cosmology.

There was one, Zamasu Chan's one. However you already know the result

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

The only canon feats are : Beerus and goku's shockwaves and ki attacks reaching the entire macrocosm in under a minute, whis travelling into different universes and into Zeno's palace, hit travelling from U7 to U6 [i could be wrong.] Angles performing the same feat as whis, vados and champa instantly travalling from U6 to U7 [some say it's teleportation, but eh.]

You'd have to prove the shockwaves reached those darkness, and that Whis traveled through the darkness to reach the other universe.

 

[Orange]

The reason i opened this was because i wanted to know why exactly infinite universe of db is not accepted despite multiple statements of it being infinite. Pretty sure the discussion is still ongoing. If you count them, there are 6 statements, 7 including GT that states the universe is infinite , each backing each other up.

7 in total actually.

I mean, the koyama ones [if they are even legit] would only apply to non canon DB, so canon DB is left with 3-5 statements against 1, so odds are quite good.

 

[Orange]

You'd have to prove the shockwaves reached those darkness, and that Whis traveled through the darkness to reach the other universe.

The shockwaves [or more spectacular , the ki explosion which beerus and goku scale from] is already accepted to have reached the entire Macrocosm. And for whis, unless there is a secret passage betwixt univeres, he would have to cross the entire universes size+ the distance between them + the distance between the universes and zeno's palace

 

[Nullflowerblush]

so are they spatially connected or not?

 

[Vietthai96]

You'd have to prove the shockwaves reached those darkness, and that Whis traveled through the darkness to reach the other universe.

The shockwave cover the entire living universe, reach way up to the Kaioshin Realm which beyond living universe, the macrocosm composed of multiple realm which living universe is a part of. There is even a visual of it travel across universe.
Whis physically travel to the neutral space outside of universe 7, same with Vados of universe 6. Super Dragon Ball spread across all 12 universes. Angel like Whis and Vados capable of physically traveling Zeno Palace which outside of 12 universes, Whis said it take dozen of days (i don't remember how many it take actually, however it is finite timeframe) to fly and he too lazy to do it. Whis capable of physically fly to Kaioshin Realm.

Well i'm here to provide you feat.