Arale upgrade mini symposium

[Fireld]

We already spoke about that... she didn't tank a starry sky in this case. This pocket dimension was extremely small in comparison.

We talked about the dimension not being universe size.

So you're saying you can't destroy a pocket dimension without space-time hax?

Also what about the other point about dimensional travel hax?

 

[Confluctor]

So you're saying you can't destroy a pocket dimension without space-time hax?

you can destroy it with AP, which will also give you space-time hax, but tanking it is often space-time hax.

universe

ofc, but I watched the episode, and can't see a starry sky. Also can we leave statistics for another time pls?

Also what about the other point about dimensional travel hax?

sure, I have no problem with dimensional travel. tho as I said, extra scans are always welcomed.

 

[Fireld]

you can destroy it with AP, which will also give you space-time hax, but tanking it is often space-time hax.

Could you maybe show examples from another verse or sth? Like Bobobo destroyed a pocket reality while in it & didn't get that resistance

ofc, but I watched the episode, and can't see a starry sky. Also can we leave statistics for another time pls?

I vaugely said celestial bodies not stars cause everything i black n white so it is hard to distnguish what is what exactly. Then again in the dbz anime you see moons & planets in Kaishoin Realm sky.
Since you want to leave the statistics for later OK i'll drop it for now even tho he durabilty section is pretty bad

sure, I have no problem with dimensional travel. tho as I said, extra scans are always welcomed.

Wait but what about the contradictions with the manga+old anime version where she did need help from Chivil to pull that off? Or the fact that we don't see how she did it the new anime version & before she did it she was playing with Chivil?

 

[Confluctor]

Could you maybe show examples from another verse or sth? Like Bobobo destroyed a pocket reality while in it & didn't get that resistance

How did he tank it?

Wait but what about the contradictions with the manga+old anime version where she did need help from Chivil to pull that off? Or the fact that we don't see how she did it the new anime version & before she did it she was playing with Chivil?

In that case, we need to apply canon rules to anime and manga. Manga comes first and foremost, then its anime - if there are certain contradictions, it will become secondary canon. So, manga will take precedence

 

[ArmBill]

Ah yes, but of course, except that's not what's happening with the Dragon Quest, now is it?

Through immersion, when you enter the said story, you are not part of it at all. Literally. You can't be part of it. It's like a bug in the system, it shouldn't belong. The bug doesn't operate under the established rules of the system due to it being from outside aka shouldn't be there in the first place. Another example; a virus enters a human body, it doesn't operate under the established rules of this place - now manipulating those rules, if you could, won't grant you law manipulation either because at most it would be biology manipulation - so it causes mayhem. That's what's happening here. Arale shouldn't belong in the game, so when she entered it, the game became her playground, simply because the code is already written there and she is just manipulating the data to suit her needs. In the previous thread, we agreed that the reason that is happening is because of her data manipulation - which comes via toon force. Inside a digital space, there is only data - millions upon millions of lines of code. All she is doing is manipulating the data in ways to suit her. That's not resistance to law manipulation, because everything inside the game is data, pre-developed codes and she is manipulating that through toon force. Looking at it now, it should theoretically upgrade her data hax when immersing, but nothing law hax.

Now that I look at it, even resistance to data manipulation seems sus. The game is already created and shipped, and it doesn't come with a self-reassembling mechanism, no game does. If it did, it came with something as advanced as that, then data manip resistance can work, but it doesn't, so even data manip resistance - I think one came from here - should be removed.

In addition, when a higher infinity being comes down to lower infinity, they are often unaffected by the laws of physics, simply because they transcend that system of causality. That's exactly what is happening here. She is from a higher infinity, and the game is a lower infinity - we will use infinity for the lack of a better term - and of course, the lower infinity doesn't follow the same rules as the above, so that's why they are unaffected by these rules set in place. You could argue that they should get law manipulation resistance... but why would they? They are just simply operating in a different causality system. They would, however, get law manip resistance if some character tried to use their hax and it didn't work at all, sure. But simply because they transcend that system of laws doesn't grant law manip resistance at all.


Now, back to Arale. In the chapter, we see her enter the game and she takes more people than is allowed by the rules of the game. But she continues through that just fine. Now, why would this be law manipulation resistance when it is one of the clearest forms of data manipulation? She is manipulating data, codes to suit her need. And rules, in this game, are also data. Everything is data.


So, now to you... Can you explain to me why you think manipulating the data of a game is somehow resistance to law manipulation? And keep in mind, she is a bug in the system, and the system has no way to actually fight her or reinforce its laws on her because it's already pre-developed without that kind of problem in mind.

That's not exactly how that works though. All the Immersion Machines do is just send a person into a world and make akin so it to how they act in real life. We've seen regular people get sent into these worlds. Like for the Dragon quest example and Senbei, he had 0 advantages. The only thing he could do was play it normally. Arale is only different since she's a powerful gag character. Can you really say senbei was acting like character that was a higher infinity??


Senbei couldn't have more than 2 or 3 companies. He literally was bounded by the game. While Arale wasnt affected by this. It was notable enough for the chapter to point it out. Also you're able to have different affects from a form a manipulation, as well. You accepted EE resistance from plot.

Like I said, she ignored the effect of the rules the system has and as the definition of law manipulation on the wiki begets, they weren't applying to her, or in another similar world affecting. That would be resisting Law manipulation, just because the world is data is irrelevant. As fodders such as senbei can't do anything akin to Arale. Or in the other immersion machines episode, the other human characters can't do anything special ethier. The pre developed aspect, didn't have trouble with senbei, applying it's rules. Even though technically, he's a outsider too.

 

[Fireld]

How did he tank it?

He was in it while it was destroyed & just didn't take hurt

In that case, we need to apply canon rules to anime and manga. Manga comes first and foremost, then its anime - if there are certain contradictions, it will become secondary canon. So, manga will take precedence

Chivil could've helped her like in the 2 older version, it's just that this scene was off screen in the new version. So in conclusion this ability gets unaccepted.

 

[Confluctor]

Can you really say senbei was acting like character that was a higher infinity??

I don't think you understood my example of higher infinities fully. Does the doctor have data manipulation?

 

[Confluctor]

Chivil could've helped her like in the 2 older version, it's just that this scene was off screen in the new version. So in conclusion this ability gets unaccepted.

Hmmm i see, i see

 

[ArmBill]

He was in it while it was destroyed & just didn't take hurt

Chivil could've helped her like in the 2 older version, it's just that this scene was off screen in the new version. So in conclusion this ability gets unaccepted.

Well in the example used it due to her destroying it. here's the full video. There 2 parts though, so you'll need to click on the link.

I don't think you understood my example of higher infinities fully. Does the doctor have data manipulation?

No, because just because we see him being a outsider using the machine he isn't able to ignore the rules of system, like Arale. You're examples don't work exactly. Since we literally see laws/rule be implemented on people like senbei. It would apply a data and law effect on reality. Plus if Arale changed these effects and as I showed. The definition of law manipulation is what was stated "rules of the system", stuff which is impossible to do ingame. So it would be relating to law.

 

[Confluctor]

Can I see the Senbei scans? Preferably from manga


And as I said a few times before, none of that is actually law hax resistance. You might wanna ask some other staff to evaluate that shit, cause I don't see any law stuff here mate.

 

[Fireld]

Well in the example used it due to her destroying it. here's the full video. There 2 parts though, so you'll need to click on the link.

Hell wasn't destroyed as in "the realm was completly wiped out", it was more of the collateral damage thing. Enma cancelled their stay in Hell, after the explsion Chivil says Hell was closed & there was also an underconstruction sign(missing a few seconds eh). Others got hit by Arale's & Chivil's explosion & they're weren't brought back to Earth.

 

[ArmBill]

Can I see the Senbei scans? Preferably from manga

Actually he didn't actually use the machine. So nvm on that part, I misrememberered that. Although, he did act in a way that was interesting, such as having himself be in the game somehow. However, my point on the machines not actually giving you a advantage still applies. The only stated effect is it sends you into the world. We still see Arale get affected by certain things. Such as the people in the game interacting and touching her. Or the ice breath. It's not like she inaitaly trancended it.

https://********.org/chapter/c4411cd9-6091-4445-8958-37e6bd45496a/4

Edit : This filter thing is so vexing bruh

And as I said a few times before, none of that is actually law hax resistance. You might wanna ask some other staff to evaluate that shit, cause I don't see any law stuff here mate.

Rip, How does the definition not fit for law? The wiki definition applies to the effects the world has. Such as fundamental rules that govern it. If you straight up ignore a rule of reality being placed on to you then I would say it's a resistance. Resistance does mean to not be affected after all which Arake wasn't in that specific aspect.

 

[ArmBill]

Hell wasn't destroyed as in "the realm was completly wiped out", it was more of the collateral damage thing. Enma cancelled their stay in Hell, after the explsion Chivil says Hell was closed & there was also an underconstruction sign(missing a few seconds eh). Others got hit by Arale's & Chivil's explosion & they're weren't brought back to Earth.

In the 2nd clip Arale said something about being happy. Then enma said he's not you destroyed hell. So we know she was the cause, of the effect right after. They only got transported after she did that. The others not showing up on earth doesn't matter that much.

 

[ArmBill]

But since the law stuff is more contentious I suppose it can be saved for another time. Confluctor can you @ant so I can apply the other changes?

 

[Confluctor]

https://********.org/chapter/c4411cd9-6091-4445-8958-37e6bd45496a/4

link doesn't work ;/

give me chapter number, I can just read it on viz

 

[ArmBill]

link doesn't work ;/

give me chapter number, I can just read it on viz

It's ch 3 of the sequel manga. It's not on viz, sadly.

 

[Confluctor]

Rip. Lemme find it myself

 

[Confluctor]

Huh... Where did he enter the game himself? I am confused.

 

[ArmBill]

Huh... Where did he enter the game himself? I am confused.

No, he didn't technically I corrected myself. It's just that he's in the game as himself somehow.

 

[Confluctor]

That's just artistic rendention (hate the spelling of this word) of it. I have seen it in various other mangas and animes too.

 

[ArmBill]

That's just artistic rendention (hate the spelling of this word) of it. I have seen it in various other mangas and animes too.

I didn't say that it was something else. I just called it interesting. Although, he did say different lines that weren't in the original. Like talking about a handsome level or something and Arale did recognize him it seemed .

 

[Confluctor]

Would you mind quote tweeting the accepted stuff?

@Antvasima I think we are done here

 

[ArmBill]

Would you mind quote tweeting the accepted stuff?

@Antvasima I think we are done here

I think all of the accepted stuff was labeled in the op

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so what, if anything, has been accepted to be applied here, and do I need to help with anything?

 

[Antvasima]

I think all of the accepted stuff was labeled in the op

Never mind. I will unlock Arale's page then. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Fireld]

In the 2nd clip Arale said something about being happy. Then enma said he's not you destroyed hell.

She was happy cause Senbei & Midori made up. Also earlier in the episode he said they destroyed Hell when they were just blowing up/tearing apart stuff & causing havoc. The Chivil qoute about Hell being closed is in the 2nd clip you showed too in the end. Also the place Senbei was being tortured was still intact after the explosion. So it destroyed Hell not in the sense "nothing is left from the original thing" but destroyed as "breaking lots of things".

So we know she was the cause, of the effect right after. They only got transported after she did that. The others not showing up on earth doesn't matter that much.

It does matter. Others got caught up in the explosion & after it they're weren't transported so it can't be the catalyst that caused that effect.

 

[Confluctor]

Acausality type 1 needs changing. The later evidence is fine, but the first one, not so much. Just keep one and it should suffice

 

[Ss3micah]

Acausality type 1 needs changing. The later evidence is fine, but the first one, not so much. Just keep one and it should suffice

Ill adjust that then
Done

 

[Confluctor]

thanks

 

[ArmBill]

She was happy cause Senbei & Midori made up. Also earlier in the episode he said they destroyed Hell when they were just blowing up/tearing apart stuff & causing havoc. The Chivil qoute about Hell being closed is in the 2nd clip you showed too in the end. Also the place Senbei was being tortured was still intact after the explosion. So it destroyed Hell not in the sense "nothing is left from the original thing" but destroyed as "breaking lots of things".

It does matter. Others got caught up in the explosion & after it they're weren't transported so it can't be the catalyst that caused that effect.

Well enma was asking them to leave. If he could force it why didn't he do it earlier? Plus technically Arale wasn't dead so "canceling her" death wouldn't do anything. With senbei we kind of just him fade out of hell into existence, into the earth realm. It can just mean the explosion was taking effect there. We did see them in different locations technically, from hell. It just means they would've been transported else where.

 

[ArmBill]

Never mind. I will unlock Arale's page then. Tell me here when you are done.

I'm done. Anything else can be discussed in a new thread. So everything can be closed, I suppose.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.