Alive Minato vs EMS Sasuke

[MinatoSparkle]

High 7-A keys. Minato starts in Base but can enter SM. This is Early Juubito fight Sasuke. AKA the one who fought alongside MKCM Naruto. Neither has any knowledge on each other, except Minato knows Sasuke has EMS and Sasuke knows Minato has SM.

The Wholesome Hokage: 7

The Emo Uchiha: 5

Naruto's MC power reigns supreme: 4

 

[TauanVictor]

So what would be stopping you from being the same thing with Taka Sasuke VS Minato?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I feel like Minato’s positional advantage from teleportation can be negged by Sasuke covering the field in Amaterasu. Then “allegedly” Minato takes a while to enter SM while Sasuke can just shit out Susano’o whenever. And Sasuke how’s Genjutsu. I feel like Sasuke just has the better arsenal.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So what would be stopping you from being the same thing with Taka Sasuke VS Minato?

EMS Sasuke is way stronger and more versatile.

I feel like Minato’s positional advantage from teleportation can be negged by Sasuke covering the field in Amaterasu. Then “allegedly” Minato takes a while to enter SM while Sasuke can just shit out Susano’o whenever. And Sasuke how’s Genjutsu. I feel like Sasuke just has the better arsenal.

Minato can teleport Ama, and he can actually teleport it directly onto Sasuke if he gets a mark onto him, which is very likely when Sasuke has no knowledge on FTG at the start.

He can blink and turn it on in reality though.

Minato has knowledge on him having the EMS so he'd be wary of that. Plus his chakra control is excellent so he'd likely be able to break free of it. And if he's in SM nature energy going into him could passively disrupt genjutsu.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Sasuke's EMS can shape and control the amaterasu flames no? I don't believe any of Minato's trickery is going to get around the fact that Sasuke can shape the amaterasu. To my knowledge Minato has no feats for breaking out of Mangyeko level Genjutsu that should be on the tier of Itachi's prowess. Minato gets severely outhaxed.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sasuke's EMS can shape and control the amaterasu flames no? I don't believe any of Minato's trickery is going to get around the fact that Sasuke can shape the amaterasu. To my knowledge Minato has no feats for breaking out of Mangyeko level Genjutsu that should be on the tier of Itachi's prowess. Minato gets severely outhaxed.

None of Sasuke's trickery with the Amaterasu will stop Minato from teleporting the flames onto Sasuke.

Genjutsu isn't a common move for EMS Sasuke anyways. Pretty sure he only ever attempted it on White Zetsu to get information and on Itachi to break him free. He's never used genjutsu in this form to defeat an enemy. And Sasuke has no feats for reacting to a surprise FTG slash from behind, so they both have pretty instant wincons possibly.

And if we're talking about hax, what's stopping Minato from sealing Sasuke away with the eight signed seal that could even seal away half of the nine tails?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

If we are gonna argue Sasuke won't open with Genjutsu, then Minato certainly isn't opening with sealing. And Minato still has to use the seals and whatnot and set up the teleportation, Sasuke's EMS grants him pretty much precog, so he should be able to react before Minato teleports (aimdodging the tp if you will). Sasuke's arsenal is just better, between the two power ups (Susanoo and SM) Sasuke can enter his far quicker, between the hax Sasuke's is far better, and in raw stats Minato is only a possibly High 7-A but Sasuke is concretely High 7-A. Not to mention, Minato has no resistances to Sasuke's EMS hax listed on his profile, meaning there's nothing to say Minato can defend against Sasuke's EMS.

EMS Sasuke takes this with his near precog to counter the teleportation via predicting where Minato will go, plus hax that Minato doesn't resist.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If we are gonna argue Sasuke won't open with Genjutsu, then Minato certainly isn't opening with sealing. And Minato still has to use the seals and whatnot and set up the teleportation, Sasuke's EMS grants him pretty much precog, so he should be able to react before Minato teleports (aimdodging the tp if you will). Sasuke's arsenal is just better, between the two power ups (Susanoo and SM) Sasuke can enter his far quicker, between the hax Sasuke's is far better, and in raw stats Minato is only a possibly High 7-A but Sasuke is concretely High 7-A. Not to mention, Minato has no resistances to Sasuke's EMS hax listed on his profile, meaning there's nothing to say Minato can defend against Sasuke's EMS.

EMS Sasuke takes this with his near precog to counter the teleportation via predicting where Minato will go, plus hax that Minato doesn't resist.

My point is that if you're gonna assume Sasuke will instantly use something out of character, Minato can too. So it's a stalemate on that point.

Setting up teleportation takes no time at all.

He can literally spred dozens of kunai with a single flick of his wrist.

The point of FTG was literally to counter the Sharingan. The Sharingan precognition works by reading the opponents' movements, which you can't do when you disappear completely then reappear at another random location. Just look at Izuna's attempt at "aim dodging."

This is how long it takes Minato to enter SM.

His SM activation is literally faster than Kamui (because he threw a kunai prior to entering SM, and you can't move while gathering nature energy, meaning he only started the process after), and Kamui can blitz Obito.

So SM is nigh instant for Minato.

And if we're talking about speed, in SM Minato has a solid speed advantage, and in Base his reaction scales to a higher relativistic character (Juubidara and 8th Gate Guy) than Sasuke (Unstable Juubito).

Ok I changed the OP to say they're High 7-A. Don't want people claiming Sasuke will just stand there and tank a Sage Rasengan with no damage.

Minato doesn't need to resist the genjutsu to break it afterwards.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Minato doesn't need to resist the genjutsu to break it afterwards.

Yes, he does. You can't break Mangekyō genjutsu on your own.

Remember the "Rules for facing the Sharingan"?

Also, when has Minato ever teleported something without touching it? There's the Space-Time Barrier, but that's only good for incoming projectiles, not something like Amaterasu.
If Minato touches Amaterasu, he's screwed.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Precog shouldn't be that much of an issue for minato since he beat obito. If minato were to place a tag on sasuke it would also be dangerous due to minato then being able to warp a amateratsu on him entering sussano may also give minato a bigger target to be able to place a tag on

Genjutsu especially from a EMS probably ends this fight at most we can say minato knows not to look at his eyes

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Guys, Minato will never beat Sasuke with Amaterasu because he can literally just turn it off and/or control it with Kagetsuchi.

And that's assuming he can somehow teleport it without touching it.

 

[Kidkinsey]

I was under the impression that he could teleport things to his seals like he did with the 10 tails BB

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I was under the impression that he could teleport things to his seals like he did with the 10 tails BB

Only if he or his chakra are in contact with said thing.
Alternatively he can place seal formulas on objects or people, and teleport them/to them that way, but he'd still need to touch the thing first, which is very unwise with Amaterasu for obvious reasons.

 

[Kidkinsey]

what about the space time barrier he used vs kurama

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

what about the space time barrier he used vs kurama

It's only really useful against incoming projectiles. And he needs to weave the proper signs and hold out his arm to use it, he can't just spawn it freely wherever he wants.

 

[Purgy]

Minato won't use SM in character so that's a bit moot

Sasuke has pretty much every advantage here, Minato can't really teleport to Sasuke while he has his Susanoo up unless he's tagged him directly, and even if Minato does teleport to him, Sasuke can just surround himself in Amaterasu and end it, Minato can't do anything about Amaterasu.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yes, he does. You can't break Mangekyō genjutsu on your own.

Remember the "Rules for facing the Sharingan"?

Also, when has Minato ever teleported something without touching it? There's the Space-Time Barrier, but that's only good for incoming projectiles, not something like Amaterasu.
If Minato touches Amaterasu, he's screwed.

Remember Ay resisting Sasuke's genjutsu?

I'm saying the moment Ama spawns on him he'll teleport it away cause it's not like the burning is instant. Karin was burned for like half a minute and was relatively ok.

Guys, Minato will never beat Sasuke with Amaterasu because he can literally just turn it off and/or control it with Kagetsuchi.

And that's assuming he can somehow teleport it without touching it.

All I'm saying is that FTG will make Ama not beat Minato.

Only if he or his chakra are in contact with said thing.
Alternatively he can place seal formulas on objects or people, and teleport them/to them that way, but he'd still need to touch the thing first, which is very unwise with Amaterasu for obvious reasons.

He can also connect his chakra to it and warp it.

Minato won't use SM in character so that's a bit moot

Sasuke has pretty much every advantage here, Minato can't really teleport to Sasuke while he has his Susanoo up unless he's tagged him directly, and even if Minato does teleport to him, Sasuke can just surround himself in Amaterasu and end it, Minato can't do anything about Amaterasu.

It he's losing badly enough he will.

He can mark the Susanoo then teleport inside of it.

Minato will teleport the Amaterasu when it touches him.

 

[Purgy]

It he's losing badly enough he will.

He can mark the Susanoo then teleport inside of it.

Minato will teleport the Amaterasu when it touches him.

Based on what exactly? Alive Minato never used SM, even when Konoha was in danger of being destroyed by Obito and 9 Tails he didn't use it

If he marks the outside then he teleports to the outside

Proof Minato can do this?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Based on what exactly? Alive Minato never used SM, even when Konoha was in danger of being destroyed by Obito and 9 Tails he didn't use it

If he marks the outside then he teleports to the outside

Proof Minato can do this?

Because him having SM wasn't a thing until the WA. And he was perfectly capable of winning anyways.

Not how it works. You can teleport any angle from a mark.

He can teleport anything he or is his chakra is touching in his own words.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Remember Ay resisting Sasuke's genjutsu?

Yeah, I specifically remember it not being accepted.

I'm saying the moment Ama spawns on him he'll teleport it away cause it's not like the burning is instant. Karin was burned for like half a minute and was relatively ok.

And how will he do that? How will he teleport it away? Will he grab the flames and teleport them off of him? Cause that doesn't sound like a very good idea, since his arm will catch fire too.

All I'm saying is that FTG will make Ama not beat Minato.

Ehh, I haven't really seen very convincing arguments yet.

He can also connect his chakra to it and warp it.

Wot.......?

 

[Purgy]

Because him having SM wasn't a thing until the WA. And he was perfectly capable of winning anyways.

Not how it works. You can teleport any angle from a mark.

He can teleport anything he or is his chakra is touching in his own words.

Doesn't change the fact that Alive Minato never used SM, making it completely out of character

So if he marked one side of a wall he could teleport to the other side?

That isn't quite what he said though;

I can't teleport anything that I myself, or my chakra, isn't touching directly

He never said he could teleport anything

Has Minato ever teleported something non-physical such as fire?

 

[Duedate8898]

Has Minato ever teleported something non-physical such as fire?

Wouldn't the Bijudama count? It's just a ball of condensed chakra, not really something I think would classify as physical.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Wouldn't the Bijudama count? It's just a ball of condensed chakra, not really something I think would classify as physical.

Nah, the ball itself definitely has physical form. It's been used as a battering ram multiple times before. Many characters have physically interacted with the balls as well, prior to them exploding.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah, I specifically remember it not being accepted.

And how will he do that? How will he teleport it away? Will he grab the flames and teleport them off of him? Cause that doesn't sound like a very good idea, since his arm will catch fire too.

Ehh, I haven't really seen very convincing arguments yet.

Wot.......?

I remember several ppl including u accepting that.

No, why does he need to use his hand? He can just teleport the flames because they're connected to his body. He didn't need to use his hands here.

Besides I don't see why touching the flames with his hand would be such a bad idea. He'll teleport them the instant he makes contact, so it might hurt for a bit, but it's not gonna critically injure him.

Who do you think would win, Taka Sasuke or Minato speed equalized? Or Sick Itachi? If Amaterasu is really the be all end all it is then anyone with Amaterasu can beat him.

He can release chakra from his hand onto the Amaterasu without directly touching it

Doesn't change the fact that Alive Minato never used SM, making it completely out of character

So if he marked one side of a wall he could teleport to the other side?

That isn't quite what he said though;

He never said he could teleport anything

Has Minato ever teleported something non-physical such as fire?

Having never used an ability doesn't mean they can't use it in a vs battle where plot doesn't exist.

Yes, you know FTG ignores the concepts of time and space right? Why would a small physical barrier matter?

What Due said, and also chakra arms like I showed above.

Besides, fire is a thing that physically exists.

 

[Duedate8898]

Nah, the ball itself definitely has physical form. It's been used as a battering ram multiple times before. Many characters have physically interacted with the balls as well, prior to them exploding.

But its still chakra isn't it? Unlike the five basic releases in which its chakra is being transformed into another state wouldn't we still consider it energy like the Rasengan or chidori even though those two are used in similar ways?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

But its still chakra isn't it? Unlike the five basic releases in which its chakra is being transformed into another state wouldn't we still consider it energy like the Rasengan or chidori even though those two are used in similar ways?

I still don't understand why this discussion is relevant. It's in the description. FTG ignores the concepts of time and space. It shouldn't matter what the target is. FTG has never been shown not being able to teleport something based on the material's properties.

 

[Purgy]

But its still chakra isn't it? Unlike the five basic releases in which its chakra is being transformed into another state wouldn't we still consider it energy like the Rasengan or chidori even though those two are used in similar ways?

No because a Bijudama is a condensed mass of chakra, it very clearly has mass and is physically interactable, unlike Amaterasu which is fire.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No because a Bijudama is a condensed mass of chakra, it very clearly has mass and is physically interactable, unlike Amaterasu which is fire.

Fire is interactable. It's something that physically exists. If Minato can't teleport fire he can't teleport water either which makes no sense.

 

[Purgy]

Fire is interactable. It's something that physically exists. If Minato can't teleport fire he can't teleport water either which makes no sense.

I never said it didn't physically exist, but it's not something you can just touch or grab, there's a reason why we give characters made of fire a form of intangibility and characters who can interact with them NPI.

 

[Duedate8898]

While I see the point about the Bijudama having mass, due to its nature as a form of ninjutsu I feel like it only makes sense to assume that it's teleportable. Like how its been shown that fire can be sealed away.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I remember several ppl including u accepting that.

I was in favor of Ay receiving a resistance based on his own feat, but I don't remember ever agreeing with scaling resistances to other characters. Regardless of whether I accepted it or not though, it's just not something this wiki accepts under any circumstances.
To illustrate to you how hopeless this proposition is, Jiren was denied Resistance to Existence Erasure countless times, despite literally everyone (including staff) agreeing that there is no way in hell Toppo can just Hakai Jiren and win.
Scaling resistances is just something never done on the site. You'll have to change the standards first before attempting that. (Of course this is only for scaling resistances via power and whatnot, I'm sure you understand what I mean)

No, why does he need to use his hand? He can just teleport the flames because they're connected to his body. He didn't need to use his hands here.

Here he's already surrounded by a cloak of his own chakra, which he can extend in the form of his chakra arms. In base that is not the case. He's not passively engulfed by his own chakra.

Besides I don't see why touching the flames with his hand would be such a bad idea. He'll teleport them the instant he makes contact, so it might hurt for a bit, but it's not gonna critically injure him.

Because the flames will spread to his arms.

Who do you think would win, Taka Sasuke or Minato speed equalized? Or Sick Itachi? If Amaterasu is really the be all end all it is then anyone with Amaterasu can beat him.

Not really sure what this has to do with anything....
If you're interested in seeing how those matchups would go, just make them lol.

He can release chakra from his hand onto the Amaterasu without directly touching it

Sure, but what stops Sasuke from just hitting him with it again? Eventually he'll succumb to the heat and burns, it's not like he's immune to them after all.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

While I see the point about the Bijudama having mass, due to its nature as a form of ninjutsu I feel like it only makes sense to assume that it's teleportable. Like how its been shown that fire can be sealed away.

Yes, but the Sealing Jutsu Jiraiya used on Amaterasu didn't require physical contact, while FTG does.

 

[Nierre]

Can someone give me a tl;dr...

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Can someone give me a tl;dr...

UchihaSlayer and Purgy: Amaterasu gg!!!
GokuSparkle: No, FTG gg!!!

 

[Nierre]

So is the question whether Minato can interact with Amaterasu via FTG or something?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Even if he could Sasuke’s control of Amaterasu is too much. It’s not like it’s a linear attack ball, it’s chaotic fire that Sasuke can shape how he pleases.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Even if he could Sasuke’s control of Amaterasu is too much. It’s not like it’s a linear attack ball, it’s chaotic fire that Sasuke can shape how he pleases.

And he can freely spawn it in his line of sight over and over, coupled with his precog and kinetic vision keeping track of both where his opponent is and where he will be.

 

[Duedate8898]

Hmm, due to the starting distance and location I feel like Ametarsu wouldn't be Sasuke's go to. He's more likely to go for a Susano arrow or something else that'll cover the range between him and Minato quickly. There isn't likely for their to be clear line of sight for Sasuke to use that attack.

After that fact, that gives Minato enough time to set up his FTG, though due to how his Sharigan works Sasuke would probably be able to track Minato teleporting even if he doesn't realize at first what exactly Minato can do.

While I feel like Sasuke is the most powerful here, I do think Minato is actually smarter and a better strategizer. I also don't think Minato will really position himself properly for Sasuke to use a flat Amaterasu to land directly on Minato. Instead, he'd probably rely on Blaze Release to try and crowd control.

I also feel like Sasuke has Minato beat in the stamina department, so for Minato to really win he needs to land a decisive hit before Sasuke hits him good or he runs out of steam.

With sage mode, I feel like Minato could potentially damage or breakthrough Sasuke's Susano, I think he's more likely to try and get a back Rasegan. That or do something to seal away his chakra or Sharingan.

On Sasukes's side, he really just needs to restrict Minato's mobility since without that Minato's a sitting duck.

Don't really know which way I'll vote yet but figured I'd say that now

 

[Duedate8898]

And he can freely spawn it in his line of sight over and over, coupled with his precog and kinetic vision keeping track of both where his opponent is and where he will be.

Precog is actually not too useful with Minato due to his fighting styles reliance on FTG.

 

[Nierre]

Voting Incon for now.