Deku’s Lifting Strength Downgrade

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Hey so I’ve been gone for a little while and I gotta say;

Why are there 5 MHA CRT’s going on right now with more on the way?

In regards to this lifting strength stuff, if it’s more consistent that he does class 50 stuff than the steel beam thing, then use the class 50 stuff. If not, he goes to class 25. It’s not that hard from my perspective.

Lmao. Hope you enjoyed your time off man. We’re deep in this fire.

 

[Therefir]

Being at the center doesn’t translate to popping veins, screaming and sweating in exertion. He’d have more than likely shown some issue with balance instead of exertion.

Balance is vitally important when it comes to lifting, let's say you can lift a 100 kilogram dumbbell, but if you were to try to lift it sideways, it would be completely impossible because of the imbalance.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Balance is vitally important when it comes to lifting, let's say you can lift a 100 kilogram dumbbell, but if you were to try to lift it sideways, it would be completely impossible because of the imbalance.

Yeah and I’d struggle with balance most likely not pop a vein and go super saiyan. Also there’s still the fact that the beam is less than three times what a weaker Deku can apparently put out with less effort.

Your analogy would make more sense as I can lift 100kg without much exertion and then turn around and struggle to lift 25kg cause I’m not lifting at the center.

 

[Therefir]

Well, the Class 50 feat is still anime only, Deku can jump between buildings and it's consistent, but we don't know how fast.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Why don’t we just put the kid at Class 25 since that’s a calculated feat from the manga then?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Alright, let’s not beat around the bush here:

Deku absolutely struggled to lift that beam, not because of balance, but strength. Immediately after catching it, he tries to LIFT the beam, and visually struggles to do so before performing it with one hand.

However, this is, quite frankly, the only direct Lifting Feat for any percentage of Full Cowl to my knowledge. So the possibility of it being the outlier is there, if we accept that other feats of his are valid for LS, despite not being as direct.

If we do not accept them as valid, I agree to downgrading him to class 25. If there are any other feats for his LS, those would be appreciated.

 

[Earthyboy]

I am not saying anything like that, you are using different circumstances to justify it, while I am using a single scene which you are calculating. It would be the same case of a character at Mach 100 hitting a wall and not breaking it, and yet you use KE, and to justify you would use that same argument.

They are different circumstances and scenes. I'm referring to the exact one you calculate

What is your point here? That Deku didn't generate 25 tons worth of force in his jump simply because the ground didn't break? You do realize that 90% of fictional fights fall under this category right? Using destructive capacity as an excuse does not mean the feat can't be counted.

If you could lift over three times the weight of that chair without notable signs of stress I wouldn’t expect you to struggle as much as he did to the point he was screaming and popping veins on his head.

Deku isn't lifting "three times" the weight of that I-beam. Subtract 15 from 25. The difference is not 3x. In fact, it's only a 60% difference. And combined with the acceleration here, and the fact that he's at the center of the beam, along with that he had to catch it at the last second, AND the fact that there's a difference between generating force through acceleration and deadlifting, it would be significantly harder to lift it.

To set an example about what I'm talking about generating force through a deadlift compared to acceleration, if you factor in the acceleration of the I-beam that Deku is holding, which is 9.8 m/s^2, and multiply by the I-beams weight, Deku's arms would've had to support over 147 metric tons worth of weight. That goes to show you just how much of a difference acceleration matters when trying to catch/lift a falling object. And of course, this is ignoring the fact that at one point in the Two Heroes movie, Deku managed to break out of SOLID STEEL with his bare hands at 5%. The lifting strength required to do that is way over hundreds of tons.

Hell, you got Deku being able to crush solid concrete with his bare hands at 8%, which alone would require hundreds of tons of force. And that's just the grip strength of the muscles in his hands when enhanced by One for All.

Also, is anyone gonna talk about how logically speaking, Deku struggling to lift a 15 ton I-beam would be an outlier compared to the feat being challenged?

 

[Therefir]

I don't think Hori knows how much strength it would require to jump dozens of meters in an instant, or how much force a falling steel beam would generate.

So let's just go with the weight of the beam. All Might's Class T feat is also exaggerated to me.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The possibility of the steel beam feat being the outlier is there, but it would need to be accepted that the other feats being presented are viable.

I know quite a few people on this site that see a feat use the anime scene and instantly believe it is incorrect and can never be used.

So that’s going to take discussion.

And of course, this is ignoring the fact that at one point in the Two Heroes movie, Deku managed to break out of SOLID STEEL with his bare hands at 5%. The lifting strength required to do that is way over hundreds of tons.

Hell, you got Deku being able to crush solid concrete with his bare hands at 8%, which alone would require hundreds of tons of force. And that's just the grip strength of the muscles in his hands when enhanced by One for All.

Are you able to actually calc these feats? Because the movies are absolutely, unequivocally canon to the Manga, so feats from them are viable. And they would make the Steel Beam feat an outlier

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

What is your point here? That Deku didn't generate 25 tons worth of force in his jump simply because the ground didn't break? You do realize that 90% of fictional fights fall under this category right? Using destructive capacity as an excuse does not mean the feat can't be counted.


Deku isn't lifting "three times" the weight of that I-beam. Subtract 15 from 25. The difference is not 3x. In fact, it's only a 60% difference. And combined with the acceleration here, and the fact that he's at the center of the beam, along with that he had to catch it at the last second, AND the fact that there's a difference between generating force through acceleration and deadlifting, it would be significantly harder to lift it.

To set an example about what I'm talking about generating force through a deadlift compared to acceleration, if you factor in the acceleration of the I-beam that Deku is holding, which is 9.8 m/s^2, and multiply by the I-beams weight, Deku's arms would've had to support over 147 metric tons worth of weight. That goes to show you just how much of a difference acceleration matters when trying to catch/lift a falling object. And of course, this is ignoring the fact that at one point in the Two Heroes movie, Deku managed to break out of SOLID STEEL with his bare hands at 5%. The lifting strength required to do that is way over hundreds of tons.

Hell, you got Deku being able to crush solid concrete with his bare hands at 8%, which alone would require hundreds of tons of force. And that's just the grip strength of the muscles in his hands when enhanced by One for All.

Also, is anyone gonna talk about how logically speaking, Deku struggling to lift a 15 ton I-beam would be an outlier compared to the feat being challenged?

The beam is 7.5 tons not 15 tons. Deku never crushed solid concrete with his bare hands at 8% that was 20. Deku broke out of steel while wearing the Full Gautlet and previously being pinned by it which would infer he used a higher percentage.

 

[Therefir]

If I remember correctly, 5% Deku was able to hold back a giant steel pillar from Wolfram in the movie.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The beam is 7.5 tons not 15 tons. Deku never crushed solid concrete with his bare hands at 8% that was 20. Deku broke out of steel while wearing the Full Gautlet.

The Full Gauntlet doesn’t increase his actual percentage unless he states so, and only in that arm. So he would be 5% when he broke out of that steel, unless something indicates otherwise.

Also we should really be saying that for the steel bar kick he did, which could actually have been 30% but no one talks about

 

[Earthyboy]

The possibility of the steel beam feat being the outlier is there, but it would need to be accepted that the other feats being presented are viable.

I know quite a few people on this site that see a feat use the anime scene and instantly believe it is incorrect and can never be used.

So that’s going to take discussion.



Are you able to actually calc these feats? Because the movies are absolutely, unequivocally canon to the Manga, so feats from them are viable. And they would make the Steel Beam feat an outlier

Actually, yeah. I've been working on calculating a few of these. I'm about to post one.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

The Full Gauntlet doesn’t increase his actual percentage unless he states so, and only in that arm. So he would be 5% when he broke out of that steel, unless something indicates otherwise.

Also we should really be saying that for the steel bar kick he did, which could actually have been 30% but no one talks about

We can’t hear Deku talk while buried in steel plus it makes zero sense to get overwhelmed by something and pinned for like a minute then suddenly shatter it.

Is Full Gauntlet full body reinforcement?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

We can’t hear Deku talk while buried in steel plus it makes zero sense to get overwhelmed by something and pinned for like a minute then suddenly shatter it.

“Plus Ultra”

Also he says his percentages in his head all the time, not out loud. So we would have heard him.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Is Full Gauntlet full body reinforcement?

Interesting question

Initially I would say yes, but after learning that Deku’s mid gauntlets reinforce his whole body due to him having two on his arm AND legs, I’m thinking not.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

“Plus Ultra”

Also he says his percentages in his head all the time, not out loud. So we would have heard him.

So he can’t do that reliably?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Interesting question

Initially I would say yes, but after learning that Deku’s mid gauntlets reinforce his whole body due to him having two on his arm AND legs, I’m thinking not.

Huh so that’s why he could suddenly use 45% on his whole body constantly

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

That Deku didn't generate 25 tons worth of force in his jump simply because the ground didn't break?

Basically, yes. We cancel out kinetic energy when this happens, the same logic can be applied here

• There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.
  • For example, if a character launches a 200kg metal ball against a common wall at Mach 300, but the wall remains largely undamaged, the energy required to cause the minor damage on the wall would take priority over the kinetic energy derived from speed in this case.

Kinetic Energy Feats

In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy that it possesses due to its motion. It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Earthyboy]

Apparently, this is Class M Lifting Strength. And it's strangely consistent with this feat. (It's worthing noting how Deku actually manages to crater the walls just by jumping off of them. So, the amount of force in his leaps is definitely affecting walls in this scenario).

Basically, yes. We cancel out kinetic energy when this happens, the same logic can be applied here

Kinetic Energy Feats

In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy that it possesses due to its motion. It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless...

vsbattles.fandom.com

That rule is total bullshit because according to that logic, shouldn't we cancel out the kinetic energy of the cube feat? If that generated dozens of megatons worth of KE, the entire city would be destroyed.

You know, there's a thing called destructive capacity, just saying.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

So he can’t do that reliably?

I mean, it would scale to however much “I try really hard” amps a normal person.

It’s either that or we believe he amped to another percentage (likely 30%) but that takes more assumptions.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

That rule is total bullshit because according to that logic, shouldn't we cancel out the kinetic energy of the cube feat? If that generated dozens of megatons worth of KE, the entire city would be destroyed.

The cube didn't hit the ground though. There is no evidence that contradicts KE

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I mean, it would scale to however much “I try really hard” amps a normal person.

It’s either that or we believe he amped to another percentage (likely 30%) but that takes more assumptions.

Don’t certain characters have limit break or some stand in for it in their abilities section?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Don’t certain characters have limit break or some stand in for it in their abilities section?

If they do, that should be added to MHA profiles.

 

[Earthyboy]

The cube didn't hit the ground though. There is no evidence that contradicts KE

But it collided with Deku and All Might's fist, who were generating an equal amount of force. The shock wave and pressure generated from that collision would've been just as bad as the cube hitting the ground. Even discounting this, the amount generated when the cube starts to have kinetic energy worth that of several nuclear bombs would've leveled the entire area just off of the shock waves alone.

If All Might generated over a dozen megatons of TNT when changing the weather, the entire city would've been nothing but a "was." Everyone would've been vaporized. And yet, all of these feats are counted as legitimate for some reason, except Deku's Full Cowl Jumps, because it didn't "crack the walls" just off of the force generated.

Hell, just Bakugou detonating hundreds of kilos worth of TNT would've severely damaged the surroundings most of the time due to the sheer size and power of them, and yet the power of his explosions barely managed to crack a few layers of concrete.

Do you honestly understand how silly of a ******* rule that is? If you want to bring up my calculations legitimacy based on destructive capacity and the rules of the wiki, you'd be dealing with a double-edged sword.

 

[Chariot190]

Apparently, this is Class M Lifting Strength.

You should probably use cross sectional area of the bars instead, last I checked we don't use the outer surface for those types of feats, for example, when he snaps that one restraint, you'd use the cross sectional area (so if it's a tube/bar/whatever, you'd get the diameter or the radius of it, use that to get the area of a circle, and then multiply that cross sectional area by the the mpa, for example, if the steel had a tensile yield of say, 4 tons per cm2, and the cross section was 4cm2, you'd just do 4cm2 x 4 tons of force for 16 tons to snap it at a specific point).

Maybe outer surface could work for complete bending of the whole thing, but eh, the actual act of breaking it is cross section at the points it broke.

 

[Earthyboy]

You should probably use cross sectional area of the bars instead, last I checked we don't use the outer surface for those types of feats, for example, when he snaps that one restraint, you'd use the cross sectional area (so if it's a tube/bar/whatever, you'd get the diameter or the radius of it, use that to get the area of a circle, and then multiply that cross sectional area by the the mpa).

Maybe outer surface could work for complete bending of the whole thing, but eh, the actual act of breaking it is cross section at the points it broke.

Good idea actually. I'll get to it eventually.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

If they do, that should be added to MHA profiles.

Maybe reactive power level? Closest thing I could find

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I swear that Deku bullet dodge gets faster every time someone touches it. Why’s the result different again?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I swear that Deku bullet dodge gets faster every time someone touches it. Why’s the result different again?

Idk bro I’ve given up on that feat. It’s either the best speed feat in the low tiers of the verse or support or wrong. Not my wheelhouse.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Anyway King would reactive power level work? It’s getting stronger as they fight which is kinda what happens when they go Plus Ultra

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Supernatural will power might also work but the page makes it sound like it’d need to be more impressive than what most of the cast have shown

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

But it collided with Deku and All Might's fist, who were generating an equal amount of force

The strength of the cube would be focused on Deku and All Might's arms. Equal forces cancel each other out in an impact

If All Might generated over a dozen megatons of TNT when changing the weather, the entire city would've been nothing but a "was." Everyone would've been vaporized. And yet, all of these feats are counted as legitimate for some reason, except Deku's Full Cowl Jumps, because it didn't "crack the walls" just off of the force generated.

But the punch literally created a tornado that pulled clouds at high speed. That's enough for KE without having to destroy anything. Like, it's not that All might's punch has KE, it's that he created a tornado that pulled up a storm. "Cause and reaction". Him not destroying anything in the city was simply a case where power does not mean destruction

Hell, just Bakugou detonating hundreds of kilos worth of TNT would've severely damaged the surroundings most of the time due to the sheer size and power of them, and yet the power of his explosions barely managed to crack a few layers of concrete.

I see no relevance here when the subject is KE

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Supernatural will power might also work but the page makes it sound like it’d need to be more impressive than what most of the cast have shown

Well, the feats aren't ever dramatically higher than their past capabilities. Plus Ultra is often just them breaking some kind of limit and going really hard at their peaks, if not past them.

So idk if that would be willpower or reactive power level.

 

[sanicspood]

is the leaping from building to building thing even in the manga?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

But the punch literally created a tornado that pulled clouds at high speed. That's enough for KE without having to destroy anything. Like, it's not that All might's punch has KE, it's that he created a tornado that pulled up a storm. "Cause and reaction". Him not destroying anything in the city was simply a case where power does not mean destruction

The punch was rejected to be through KE. Yes, it was a day of suffering.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

is the leaping from building to building thing even in the manga?

Yes but there's no timeframe cause it's a still image

 

[Theendzero13]

Yes but there's no timeframe cause it's a still image

Did It only took one manga panel? , if so the standard timeframe is 5 secs

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Ah, actually, the specific scene used is anime only. It's not in the manga.

And we all know how that's about to go

 

[Earthyboy]

But the punch literally created a tornado that pulled clouds at high speed. That's enough for KE without having to destroy anything. Like, it's not that All might's punch has KE, it's that he created a tornado that pulled up a storm. "Cause and reaction". Him not destroying anything in the city was simply a case where power does not mean destruction

All Might's punch would've obliterated anything in the surrounding area. Quite literally, city blocks would be destroyed, buildings leveled, etc. There are things contradicting the AP rating.

The strength of the cube would be focused on Deku and All Might's arms. Equal forces cancel each other out in an impact

But the collision generated would likely destroy the island thanks to pressure. Even the cube being launched at such speeds would generate a shit ton of pressure, to the point that the tower would've been destroyed.

Point is, there are multiple examples of how ridiculous this rule is when applied to most feats. It's just a matter of destructive capacity being different from attack potency.