JHSK Revison

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

This thread is being made as I have noticed the "lack of feats" statement on the wiki page for JHSK/TBHK and shall provide the feats for they physicals, i'll be leaving hax out of the equation for now. (i'LL only be using MANGA content, no anime)

Starting with speed, since this is 100% easier than AP to explain on, characters scale to Massively Hypersonic+, maybe sub-relatvistic with wank also. I argue this point as low tiers in the verse should be relative to the speed of lightning or faster than it. A character Kou scales to relative to lightning or faster, if you say Kou should be able to move faster than and perceive his own attacks. It hasn’t been proven that Kou isn’t faster than his own attacks, so we can assume such. In addition, he was relative to a base Hanako, holding back, which has the impressive feat of fighting Yako within her own boundary, and holding his own, same feat with Kou as well to an extent. (In Boundaries, Wonders get Passive Amps to power, making them as Hanako describes as “unbeatable” which the only time this wasn’t true was when the strongest character in the verse; Tsukasa actually beat a wonder in their own boundary, via a one shot kill.) In addition, in chapter ten of the manga, Teru (Kou’s older brother) can be seen blitzing a Hanako who was trying to transform. (His perception speed should still the same before and after transformation. As we know it amps his physicals but reaction speed isn’t confirmed.) Which we can heavily assume Hanako was going to go all out, as Teru actually has potential to actually exorcise him.

So blitzing this Hanako, and stomping him should easily put him above Hanako. In the Fake World Arc these lightning speed feat are still consistent, as we see Hanako stand in the lightning bolt, and move out of it as it is still striking. However this can be interpreted as anything, but this fight doesn’t have an anime adaption so we anything can be assumed. He then goes on to gloat about how spirit lightning can’t hurt him while transformed, and this has potential to be used against my argument. However in other cases when he is transformed, he absorbs the lightning, not out right resist it. This is not to say he can’t resist it transformed, but to say that the likeliness of him absorbing the lightning is low as it’s shown he didn’t.

speed scans:

Onto AP; they have star-galaxy level AP, and with Tsukasa being a different case, at possibly multi galaxy (if you use the feat of him one shotting a wonder in their boundary, which in a boundary would amp a wonder to 3-C regardless of prior strength outside of boundary.) We see this, as also in the Fake World Arc, Shijima (who is in top 4 wonders. My placement being Shinigami-Sama, Shijima, Clockkeepers and then Hanako San) created what we can assume is the Milky Way Galaxy, seeing as she created stars which exist outside of our normal solar system. Which it’s stated which exact star was made. In addition, a moon is created (Don’t use that one scan of the characters falling on the moon and it being small that was a clear gag scan as every other shot the moon is completely massive.), the sun, clouds, etc. The reason why I say this is a creation feat is that is fulfills the criteria to be one. Especially this from the creation feat page; “For example, it can be reasoned that a mage which expends mana from its energy pool to make a city and then channels a similar or greater amount of mana into another attack can scale to its creation feat.”

It’s stated in the series that more spirit energy an individual has to exert, the more powerful they are. This is stated by Teru in one of the mangas. In addition, the author also stated that Hanako can destroy the world if unsealed with his mere presence, or bring about chaos to it. It has many translations, some being mistranslations and such, but the feats and other statements shown does point to it being “destruction of the world.”

AP Scans:

This is all I have for today, see ya

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

3-C Hanako-kun? Seriously? The verse is out of date, but come on

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

3-C Hanako-kun? Seriously? The verse is out of date, but come on

Yes, seriously. The feats are there

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Starting with speed, since this is 100% easier than AP to explain on, characters scale to Massively Hypersonic+, maybe sub-relatvistic with wank also. I argue this point as low tiers in the verse should be relative to the speed of lightning or faster than it. A character Kou scales to relative to lightning or faster, if you say Kou should be able to move faster than and perceive his own attacks. It hasn’t been proven that Kou isn’t faster than his own attacks, so we can assume such.

Lightning is made of supernatural energy and does not cause electricity, but affects spirits. They have never been referred to as a real lightning, and have never been shown to affect humans.

It’s stated in the series that more spirit energy an individual has to exert, the more powerful they are.

In fact, spiritual energy does not define strength. Spiritual energy has more to do with you interacting with spirits than anything to do with strength. Nene can be considered a character with more spiritual energy than average humans but she is actually quite weak, for example

seeing as she created stars which exist outside of our normal solar system.

Self-explanatory
The moon is not real either

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

Lightning is made of supernatural energy and does not cause electricity, but affects spirits. They have never been referred to as a real lightning, and have never been shown to affect humans.

In fact, spiritual energy does not define strength. Spiritual energy has more to do with you interacting with spirits than anything to do with strength. Nene can be considered a character with more spiritual energy than average humans but she is actually quite weak, for example

Self-explanatory
The moon is not real either

Like I already stated, that moon scan is a gag scan, as the author use this type of chibi art syles to portray gags and funny moments, not serious scenes to this is redundant. Also even if you said that, it'd contradict all the statements and feats the author stated. So, no. This can, and would irrelevant in your argument. Also the whole lightning statement of it being spiritual lightning is not a reliable source to go off of. This is the one time i'll mention anime showings. It's clear the lightning has been shown to move fast and ofc, produce similar effects to actual lightning, as shown the electrcity it can cause burning to a person. In this sense, it beibng to referred to as spiritual lightning doesn't inheritenly disprove that it doesn't travel the same spped. + also your claim is false, as it shows the lightning itself burns Kou as he can't use it and he's human. This automatically disproves your claim.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Like I already stated, that moon scan is a gag scan, as the author use this type of chibi art syles to portray gags and funny moments, not serious scenes to this is redundant. Also even if you said that, it'd contradict all the statements and feats the author stated.

They also ride their bicycles to the moon and there are clouds behind and above it. Isnt a real moon

t's clear the lightning has been shown to move fast and ofc, produce similar effects to actual lightning

This is not proof enough, nor is it made of electricity

also your claim is false, as it shows the lightning itself burns Kou

He was injured by spiritual energy, not electricity

Also even if you said that, it'd contradict all the statements and feats the author stated.

The characters want to see that world as real and trick Nene into making it the new reality. Them saying "Wow, beautiful stars" doesn't prove that they are real

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

They also ride their bicycles to the moon and there are clouds behind and above it. Isnt a real moon

This is not proof enough, nor is it made of electricity

He was injured by spiritual energy, not electricity

The characters want to see that world as real and trick Nene into making it the new reality. Them saying "Wow, beautiful stars" doesn't prove that they are real

First claim about them riding the bicycles to the moon doesn't dispove that claim. Also it was stated that it got CLOSER to the earth. And your statement of: "The characters want to see that world as real and trick Nene into making it the new reality. Them saying "Wow, beautiful stars" doesn't prove that they are real" doesn't disprove the world is physical and also Hanako stating exactly what stars were created. Again, to say these aren't, contradicts the author's statements.

The fact that is moves fast, burns like electricity does. (Also Hanako stating verbatim: ""You zapped yourself every time you shot lightning from it." stating that the lightning hurt him. NOT spirit energy. And producing similar effects to real lightning and moving as fast IS indeed proof enough. Just because something is spiritual doesn't mean it's not real.

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

Lightning is made of supernatural energy and does not cause electricity, but affects spirits. They have never been referred to as a real lightning, and have never been shown to affect humans.

In fact, spiritual energy does not define strength. Spiritual energy has more to do with you interacting with spirits than anything to do with strength. Nene can be considered a character with more spiritual energy than average humans but she is actually quite weak, for example

Self-explanatory
The moon is not real either

Also something abt this I forgot to say. Nene isn't strong because she is amere human with ZERO feats as shes not meant to fight others, shes more of a spectator. Only combat applicable humans in the verse are supernatrual-human hybrids (Akane) and Exorcists (Minamoto Clan)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

First claim about them riding the bicycles to the moon doesn't dispove that claim.

They didn't even get to space until they went to the moon. You would also need to consider that Nene's feet were at relativistic speed and have a lifting strenght above Class Z for her to pedal that fast

Also it was stated that it got CLOSER to the earth

This proves that it is not a larger moon than 3800000 meters and that it does not have as much influence as our moon, so much so that if this happened all the seas and structures on the planet would be destroyed. And I don't remember this being said either

doesn't disprove the world is physical

I never said it was not physical

Hanako stating exactly what stars were created. Again, to say these aren't, contradicts the author's statements.

You have actually read the arc, right? He wanted to make Nene accept that reality to save her, and with the intention of influencing that Hanako pretended to be alive in the new reality to help. Hanako knew that Nene had met him from the past and knew that he liked space, so to convince her he took part in it himself, to make her feel better

Again, to say these aren't, contradicts the author's statements.

Author influences that there is an end to the world, and as proof No.3 keeps preventing Nene from progressing all the time

stating that the lightning hurt him. NOT spirit energy

The lightning is pure spiritual energy, not electricity. This is the point. Minamoto uses his lightning and does not conduct electricity in the water, which shows that it is not a real lightning

Only combat applicable humans in the verse are supernatrual-human hybrids (Akane) and Exorcists (Minamoto Clan)

And yet she possesses more spiritual energy than an ordinary human. Aoi wearing glasses has no spiritual energy, and yet is stronger than Nene

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

They didn't even get to space until they went to the moon. You would also need to consider that Nene's feet were at relativistic speed and have a lifting strenght above Class Z for her to pedal that fast

This proves that it is not a larger moon than 3800000 meters and that it does not have as much influence as our moon, so much so that if this happened all the seas and structures on the planet would be destroyed. And I don't remember this being said either

I never said it was not physical

You have actually read the arc, right? He wanted to make Nene accept that reality to save her, and with the intention of influencing that Hanako pretended to be alive in the new reality to help. Hanako knew that Nene had met hiYs, the past and knew that he liked space, so to convince her he took part in it himself, to make her feel better

Author influences that there is an end to the world, and as proof No.3 keeps preventing Nene from progressing all the time

The lightning is pure spiritual energy, not electricity. This is the point. Minamoto uses his lightning and does not conduct electricity in the water, which shows that it is not a real lightning

And yet she possesses more spiritual energy than an ordinary human. Aoi wearing glasses has no spiritual energy, and yet is stronger than Nene

Well thaat's not inherintely true, it can be intepreted as it moving itself. But if you say that's true, that proves the travel speed of characters fall within that rangve, which says something about the lightning speed feats I provided.

That, is not true. As we know, Shijima controls ALL physical forces within the fake world and more, because she can manipulate reality within her world. If this is a possibility.. why would she let the world fall into an apocalypse? Plus it's HER moving it closer, so to say that she also probably didn't prevent that other events from happening is false.

Yes, i've read the arc. And if you paid attention, the end of this world isn't actualy at an end of the physical world, it's within the moon itself. That's how they escape, THAT was the exit.

And your point about Teru not conduncting electrcity on the water? That's because Aoi, Akane and him were on it. Considering his strength, he would've killed the two. And it's made evident he can manipulate his lightning in ways, although normally he shouldn't which means he has a higher skill with it than other Minamoto Clan Members which means is likely he kept it from conducting in the water.

That's because Akane is a WONDER and Yashiro doesn't have feats becasue she is not a comabt applicable character. Also Akane can exert his spirit energy unlike her. He has more combat prowess and experience even with glasses.

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

They didn't even get to space until they went to the moon. You would also need to consider that Nene's feet were at relativistic speed and have a lifting strenght above Class Z for her to pedal that fast

This proves that it is not a larger moon than 3800000 meters and that it does not have as much influence as our moon, so much so that if this happened all the seas and structures on the planet would be destroyed. And I don't remember this being said either

I never said it was not physical

You have actually read the arc, right? He wanted to make Nene accept that reality to save her, and with the intention of influencing that Hanako pretended to be alive in the new reality to help. Hanako knew that Nene had met him from the past and knew that he liked space, so to convince her he took part in it himself, to make her feel better

Author influences that there is an end to the world, and as proof No.3 keeps preventing Nene from progressing all the time

The lightning is pure spiritual energy, not electricity. This is the point. Minamoto uses his lightning and does not conduct electricity in the water, which shows that it is not a real lightning

And yet she possesses more spiritual energy than an ordinary human. Aoi wearing glasses has no spiritual energy, and yet is stronger than Nene

on anothyer note; your last claim isnt true. its merely a surpresser which isnt alwaysworking, as he was able to punch Yashiro hard enough to knock Hanako out of her body while he was possessing her

 

[Urshani]

3-C toliets?

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

3-C toliets?

Y e s

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Well thaat's not inherintely true, it can be intepreted as it moving itself. But if you say that's true, that proves the travel speed of characters fall within that rangve, which says something about the lightning speed feats I provided.

Oh yeah. Class Z nene when Minamoto has difficulty lifting a body gg

. If this is a possibility.. why would she let the world fall into an apocalypse?

Because there is no chance of there being an apocalypse with a moon where there are clouds on top of it. The moon is simply an emergency exit. She did not want it to be a real moon, so much so that it is simply a door and there is nothing to indicate that it is a real moon being that there are more contradictions than legitmitimal things

• The moon appears small
  • It is not a comedy scene, it is literally a defining moment of the arc. That is just a scene to visualize the quote. And the author is unusual in shrinking things in comedy scenes. That's just an excuse to wank
• It is possible to measure the circumference with the size of the characters and there are clouds on top of the moon
• Nene, a character with human physical characteristics, is able to pedal to the moon without even showing the space
• Here again you can see that the clouds are comparable to the moon and are close to its circumference

Your only proof is that the characters call the moon the moon. Which is not real proof. Hell, this moon can't even be considered to have a different gravity since the clouds move normally around it; By the way, did you realize that if No.3 had the power to manipulate the moon so easily as to concert the seas and the logic of physics, she could have simply made the moon come closer to them?

the end of this world isn't actualy at an end of the physical world, it's within the moon itself

That is the only door, but it doesn't mean there is no end to it. No.3 continually stops Nene from walking through the city so as not to find the end of the world. There is no sense in her being prevented from walking a city if No.3 supposedly created a starry sky. Moreover, No.3 calls the sky "the curtain of night". This indicates that the sky is false and is only meant to deceive people about that reality.

And your point about Teru not conduncting electrcity on the water? That's because Aoi, Akane and him were on it

water is capable of conducting electricity due to the dissolved ions and impurities. When a battery with positive and negative poles is placed in water, the positive ions are attracted by the negative pole and the negative ions by the positive pole, creating a closed circuit

If you want the Minamoto to manipulate electricity within the water it would be like considering that he is able to manipulate ions, which there is no proof that he is able to. It is literally matter manipulation on a cellular level.

That's because Akane is a WONDER and Yashiro doesn't have feats becasue she is not a comabt applicable character.

Exactly, that is the point. She even with spiritual energy is not a character that can fight or is above average

Also, seriously, are you going to tell me that this bug is 3-C?

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

Oh yeah. Class Z nene when Minamoto has difficulty lifting a body gg

Because there is no chance of there being an apocalypse with a moon where there are clouds on top of it. The moon is simply an emergency exit. She did not want it to be a real moon, so much so that it is simply a door and there is nothing to indicate that it is a real moon being that there are more contradictions than legitmitimal things

• The moon appears small
  • It is not a comedy scene, it is literally a defining moment of the arc. That is just a scene to visualize the quote. And the author is unusual in shrinking things in comedy scenes. That's just an excuse to wank
• It is possible to measure the circumference with the size of the characters and there are clouds on top of the moon
• Nene, a character with human physical characteristics, is able to pedal to the moon without even showing the space
• Here again you can see that the clouds are comparable to the moon and are close to its circumference

Your only proof is that the characters call the moon the moon. Which is not real proof. Hell, this moon can't even be considered to have a different gravity since the clouds move normally around it; By the way, did you realize that if No.3 had the power to manipulate the moon so easily as to concert the seas and the logic of physics, she could have simply made the moon come closer to them?

That is the only door, but it doesn't mean there is no end to it. No.3 continually stops Nene from walking through the city so as not to find the end of the world. There is no sense in her being prevented from walking a city if No.3 supposedly created a starry sky. Moreover, No.3 calls the sky "the curtain of night". This indicates that the sky is false and is only meant to deceive people about that reality.


If you want the Minamoto to manipulate electricity within the water it would be like considering that he is able to manipulate ions, which there is no proof that he is able to. It is literally matter manipulation on a cellular level.

Exactly, that is the point. She even with spiritual energy is not a character that can fight or is above average

Also, seriously, are you going to tell me that this bug is 3-C?

I'm gonna section your argument off into pieces to disprove your points

My AP Argument: So, re-reading; actually about the bycicle Nene rode to the moon. An arguement can be made that this bycicle she "pedaled" is flying. It's questioned by Mitsuba and stated by Kou that the rear car is capable of flying alongside the bike. We know this as the weight of the rear car and bike would immediately plummet to the ground if it wasn't capable of doing such. And by extension, the bike should also be capable flying.

I'll give my reasoning on WHY it is a gag scan. Aidairo is notorious for switching to a chibi art style whenever portraying something comedic, as shown in the Red House Arc, this is used in a major point in the arc when they figure out another secret of the Red House (when they found out the boundaries other abilities. which isn't to say that it doesn't change the fact of what it can do). (And after re-reading once more; the statement of it being closer closer never was) As we see in this panel, the author makes it blatent to us where the clouds are, and where the moon is. (Also these two scans will be my next main focus.) To show that No. 3 Wonder; giving your argument the benefit of the doubt, DID move and manipulate the moon closer to them,. In one the moon is shown to be a distance away, then all of a sudden moves closer in. That is a a very direct showing, if you want to say she can resize, move, etc the moon and any other phsyical aspect. Also, the statement: "The curtain of the night" shows your taking that statement too literally. And also I can debunk that claim too. Hanako implies there is a meteor shower happening in this panel, and implies physical stars exist too. And clearly shows it in not only this scan, but multiple. It's likely this is also the sun, moon and stars exist too and is likely not a fake sky. And as I said about your end of the world claim, there isn't any physical end to the world, an assumption is that merely a portal of some sorts exist to the real world. And each exit is akin to a person's desires and emotions. And the moon is just one of the few examples.

Speed Arguement: That wasn't what I meant. I mean, he didn't eve let his lightning make contact with water in any way shape or form. Merely manipulated it ito make contact with them instead, also even if you did say that. He is merely manipulating the electricity conducting through the water.

scans:

 

[hiro_is_a_superior_being]

Oh yeah. Class Z nene when Minamoto has difficulty lifting a body gg

Because there is no chance of there being an apocalypse with a moon where there are clouds on top of it. The moon is simply an emergency exit. She did not want it to be a real moon, so much so that it is simply a door and there is nothing to indicate that it is a real moon being that there are more contradictions than legitmitimal things

• The moon appears small
  • It is not a comedy scene, it is literally a defining moment of the arc. That is just a scene to visualize the quote. And the author is unusual in shrinking things in comedy scenes. That's just an excuse to wank
• It is possible to measure the circumference with the size of the characters and there are clouds on top of the moon
• Nene, a character with human physical characteristics, is able to pedal to the moon without even showing the space
• Here again you can see that the clouds are comparable to the moon and are close to its circumference

Your only proof is that the characters call the moon the moon. Which is not real proof. Hell, this moon can't even be considered to have a different gravity since the clouds move normally around it; By the way, did you realize that if No.3 had the power to manipulate the moon so easily as to concert the seas and the logic of physics, she could have simply made the moon come closer to them?

That is the only door, but it doesn't mean there is no end to it. No.3 continually stops Nene from walking through the city so as not to find the end of the world. There is no sense in her being prevented from walking a city if No.3 supposedly created a starry sky. Moreover, No.3 calls the sky "the curtain of night". This indicates that the sky is false and is only meant to deceive people about that reality.


If you want the Minamoto to manipulate electricity within the water it would be like considering that he is able to manipulate ions, which there is no proof that he is able to. It is literally matter manipulation on a cellular level.

Exactly, that is the point. She even with spiritual energy is not a character that can fight or is above average

Also, seriously, are you going to tell me that this bug is 3-C?

Two things I left out

In the moon scans, they were bigger than the smaller moon, and then it resizes to fit them.

And yes, I do. You have a clear misunderstanding of the fact that they were INSIDE of a boundary, where Wonders, anything directly linked (like Aoi being a desendant of Sumire, the Yorishiro of Shinigami and having similar abilities.) to them and by extension, their Yorishiro (at least should if it has a spiritual form) get amped to the upmost maximum.