Question about aleph numbers and 1-A.

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Let us assume realm A is infinite dimensional, (Aleph null) AKA high 1-B
Then another realm B is uncountably infinite dimensional, (Aleph 1) AKA Low 1-A
And another realm C is aleph 2 dimensional, AKA 1-A
And then, a realm D is aleph 3 dimensional, Aka a higher level of 1-A.
Finally, a realm E is aleph omega, which is infinite levels above baseline 1-A, AKA 1-A+.
Agreed?
However, we treat a realm that transcend a 1-A realm and sees it as fiction as a higher layer of 1-A, or aleph 3 and infinite such transcedent layers with r/f difference would give you 1-A+.
However, here i am getting confused.
By definition, adding just 1 to aleph 2 is not giving you aleph 3. Similarly, what i am trying to say is, why would adding 1 layer that transcend 1-A realm and sees it as fiction would be an aleph 3 cosmology? It would be just (Aeph 2 + 1) layers. It should not be an aleph 3 cosmology right? And by that logic, adding an infinite layers on 1-A or aleph 2 should not give you 1-A+, heck it is not even enough for aleph 3.
My head is losing braincells guys. help.

 

[Hasty12345]

this sounds like an Ultima question

 

[Ovy7]

We treat each higher layer in 1A (or High 1A) as a higher cardinal. Don't ask me why tho.

 

[Darksmash]

Yea it's all just based on equalisations

 

[Metalballrun]

You can choose the SCP redditor route and assume that aleph null is above Tier 0 because SCP is the stronkkkest. Return to monke.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Yea it's all just based on equalisations

equalizations of what?

We treat each higher layer in 1A (or High 1A) as a higher cardinal. Don't ask me why tho.

that is very strange. if a single layer transcends 1-A, then that would not be aleph 3, it would be just aleph 2+1. Putting infinite layers on 1-A will not even reach aleph 3, since aleph 2+infinity is nowhere near aleph 3.
Heck, i believe aleph 3 is high 1-A, and aleph 4 is tier 0

 

[Darksmash]

equalizations of what?

Layers of 1-B are equalised to dimensions that are all still aleph 1. But from 1-A onwards each transcendence is automatically equalised to higher alephs by default

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

I don't really understand the question but lemme get this clear, aleph-1 is Low 1-A and aleph-n (or aleph-infinite/aleph-omega, preferably) is 1-A+. If I'm not mistaken with your question, you're saying that aleph-1 is Low 1-A and aleph-2 is 1-A+, so on.

But that's not how it works, I'll explain this in layman's terms, that higher aleph numbers would transcended the lower numbers on the entirety like higher and lower dimensional difference or say, all levels transcendence, at least that's how higher infinities works in this site (this site seems used continuum hypothesis as true, it is the hypothesis which asserted that aleph-1 = 1 dimension).

Aleph-0 is the smallest infinity aka 0D, aleph-1 is 1D, aleph-2 is 2D, and so on until aleph-n which is infinite D.

So by using the topology of dimensions as the elements it would be:

Aleph-0 is High 1-B or infinite dimensions, aleph-1 is Low 1-A, and so on until aleph-n which is 1-A+.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I don't really understand the question but lemme get this clear, aleph-1 is Low 1-A and aleph-n (or aleph-infinite/aleph-omega, preferably) is 1-A+. If I'm not mistaken with your question, you're saying that aleph-1 is Low 1-A and aleph-2 is 1-A+, so on.

But that's not how it works, I'll explain this in layman's terms, that higher aleph numbers would transcended the lower numbers on the entirety like higher and lower dimensional difference or say, all levels transcendence, at least that's how higher infinities works in this site (this site seems used continuum hypothesis as true, it is the hypothesis which asserted that aleph-1 = 1 dimension).

Aleph-0 is the smallest infinity aka 0D, aleph-1 is 1D, aleph-2 is 2D, and so on until aleph-n which is infinite D.

So by using the topology of dimensions as the elements it would be:

Aleph-0 is High 1-B or infinite dimensions, aleph-1 is Low 1-A, and so on until aleph-n which is 1-A+.

no no...that is not what i meant.
A higher dimension sees lower dimension as fiction, yes? An infinite dimensional structure is high 1-B or aleph null, uncountable infinite is low 1-A or aleph 1, and aleph 2 is 1-A according to our tiering system, and aleph omega is 1-A+.
However, the fact that a higher dimension sees a lower dimension as fiction still holds true, so a realm would not have to be aleph 1 dimensional to see an aleph null dimemsional realm as fiction, heck a realm (aleph null +1 ) dimensional realm would see an aleph null realm as fiction.
What i am saying is, we consider a realm that transcend a 1-A realm or aleph 2 dimensional realm and sees it as fiction as aleph 3, while a simple (aleph 2+1) dimensional realm alone would see an aleph 2 realm as fiction. Heck, aleph 1 is infinitly bigger then infinite times aleph null.

 

[Rikimarox2]

You can choose the SCP redditor route and assume that aleph null is above Tier 0 because SCP is the stronkkkest. Return to monke.

I'm genuinely wondering what's the story for this.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I'm genuinely wondering what's the story for this.

scp is like...uh, a degraded version of suggsverse.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

no no...that is not what i meant.
A higher dimension sees lower dimension as fiction, yes? An infinite dimensional structure is high 1-B or aleph null, uncountable infinite is low 1-A or aleph 1, and aleph 2 is 1-A according to our tiering system, and aleph omega is 1-A+.
However, the fact that a higher dimension sees a lower dimension as fiction still holds true, so a realm would not have to be aleph 1 dimensional to see an aleph null dimemsional realm as fiction, heck a realm (aleph null +1 ) dimensional realm would see an aleph null realm as fiction.
What i am saying is, we consider a realm that transcend a 1-A realm or aleph 2 dimensional realm and sees it as fiction as aleph 3, while a simple (aleph 2+1) dimensional realm alone would see an aleph 2 realm as fiction. Heck, aleph 1 is infinitly bigger then infinite times aleph null.

So the argument of yours is saying that reality-fiction difference is superior to higher and lower dimensional difference, yes? Because aleph numbers (assuming continuum hypothesis is correct) is transdimensional thingy. We have no reason to treat reality-fiction as such unless there are strong evidences or whatsoever, although functionally it wouldn't work like aleph numbers, it is still equivalent to them in term of size.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Also actually, us 3D beings would see 2D planes as an infinitesimally thin flat fabric, if you don't know.

That quiet much is a reality-fiction difference in analogy.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

So the argument of yours is saying that reality-fiction difference is superior to higher and lower dimensional difference, yes? Because aleph numbers (assuming continuum hypothesis is correct) is transdimensional thingy. We have no reason to treat reality-fiction as such unless there are strong evidences or whatsoever, although functionally it wouldn't work like aleph numbers, it is still equivalent to them in term of size.

no, no, it is not that. it is a fact that dimensional difference is reality fiction difference. what i am saying is, 1-A+ cannot be aleph omega, it cannot be even aleph 3, while high 1-A is aleph 3 and tier 0 is aleph 4.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

no, no, it is not that. it is a fact that dimensional difference is reality fiction difference. what i am saying is, 1-A+ cannot be aleph omega, it cannot be even aleph 3, while high 1-A is aleph 3 and tier 0 is aleph 4.

Why would you say 1-A+ is aleph-2 on the first place, though? Can you elaborate the reason?

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Why would you say 1-A+ is aleph-2 on the first place, though? Can you elaborate the reason?

You cannot make aleph 2 into aleph 3 by just adding one. Aleph 3 is a number that is infinitely bigger then infinite times aleph 2. Adding one to aleph 2 is still aleph 2, and adding infinity to aleph 2 is still aleph 2 as well. Therefore a realm that transcend aleph 2 is just aleph 2+1, and infinite such realms with reality fiction difference is also just aleph 2 only as aleph 2 +infinity=aleph 2, it does not reach aleph 3.
A 5 dimensional realm will see a 4D realm as fiction. Similarly, a realm with aleph2+1 dimensions will see a realm with aleph 2 dimensions as fiction only, it need not be aleph 3.

 

[DragonLord]

My understanding always was that the Gap between Aleph Numbers is always higher then infinity no?. Being infinitely stronger then Aleph 1 doesn’t make Aleph 2 (in fact without giving fiction the Benefit of the doubt on this stuff it really isn’t anything different then Aleph 1)

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

no no...that is not what i meant.
A higher dimension sees lower dimension as fiction, yes? An infinite dimensional structure is high 1-B or aleph null, uncountable infinite is low 1-A or aleph 1, and aleph 2 is 1-A according to our tiering system, and aleph omega is 1-A+.
However, the fact that a higher dimension sees a lower dimension as fiction still holds true, so a realm would not have to be aleph 1 dimensional to see an aleph null dimemsional realm as fiction, heck a realm (aleph null +1 ) dimensional realm would see an aleph null realm as fiction.
What i am saying is, we consider a realm that transcend a 1-A realm or aleph 2 dimensional realm and sees it as fiction as aleph 3, while a simple (aleph 2+1) dimensional realm alone would see an aleph 2 realm as fiction. Heck, aleph 1 is infinitly bigger then infinite times aleph null.

Big Brain

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

You cannot make aleph 2 into aleph 3 by just adding one. Aleph 3 is a number that is infinitely bigger then infinite times aleph 2. Adding one to aleph 2 is still aleph 2, and adding infinity to aleph 2 is still aleph 2 as well. Therefore a realm that transcend aleph 2 is just aleph 2+1, and infinite such realms with reality fiction difference is also just aleph 2 only as aleph 2 +infinity=aleph 2, it does not reach aleph 3.
A 5 dimensional realm will see a 4D realm as fiction. Similarly, a realm with aleph2+1 dimensions will see a realm with aleph 2 dimensions as fiction only, it need not be aleph 3.

First of all, this is the very first time that I heard "aleph 2+1", I believe such thing doesn't exist or either way you're literally refering to aleph 3 just like how the dimensions of 3+1 (like 3 dimensions of space being intertwined with 1 dimension of time) is 4D.
And... that's not how it works, because said logic can also be applied to dimensional space that you can't reach higher dimension just by stacking infinities, since higher dimensional space (in comparison to lower dimensional space) isn't just infinitely larger, it is uncountably infinitely larger because the set of real numbers (with the notation of R) which presented as the line of 1 dimension (1 dimension is a length, 2 dimensions are length and width) is uncountable, and aleph-1 is the first uncountably infinite.

Aleph-1 = 1 dimension (assuming that the continuum hypothesis is true), so saying that aleph-2 is 1-A+ is just like saying that the next level of reality transcendence of 1-A or say, 2x 1-A is equal to 1-A+. It doesn't make any sense, as there is no story that aleph-2 > 3 dimensions mathematically-wise, 1 dimension can only be larger or equal to aleph-1.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

My understanding always was that the Gap between Aleph Numbers is always higher then infinity no?. Being infinitely stronger then Aleph 1 doesn’t make Aleph 2 (in fact without giving fiction the Benefit of the doubt on this stuff it really isn’t anything different then Aleph 1)

yeah, but we arn't just talking about numbers, we are talking about dimensions here, and higher dimensions themselves are higher infinities. in other words, aleph 2 dimensional being is beyond an infinite of infinities above aleph 1

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

yeah, but we arn't just talking about numbers, we are talking about dimensions here, and higher dimensions themselves are higher infinities. in other words, aleph 2 dimensional being is beyond an infinite of infinities above aleph 1

That's a huge misconception of aleph numbers, aleph-2 would constitutes all the set of uncountably infinities from aleph-1, making it uncountably infinitely larger than aleph-1 rather than being "beyond an infinite of infinities above aleph 1", and the difference between them in cardinality is like higher and lower dimensions, that's it.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

First of all, this is the very first time that I heard "aleph 2+1", I believe such thing doesn't exist or either way you're literally refering to aleph 3 just like how the dimensions of 3+1 (like 3 dimensions of space being intertwined with 1 dimension of time) is 4D.
And... that's not how it works, because said logic can also be applied to dimensional space that you can't reach higher dimension just by stacking infinities, since higher dimensional space (in comparison to lower dimensional space) isn't just infinitely larger, it is uncountably infinitely larger because the set of real numbers (with the notation of R) which presented as the line of 1 dimension (1 dimension is a length, 2 dimensions are length and width) is uncountable, and aleph-1 is the first uncountably infinite.

Aleph-1 = 1 dimension (assuming that the continuum hypothesis is true), so saying that aleph-2 is 1-A+ is just like saying that the next level of reality transcendence of 1-A or say, 2x 1-A is equal to 1-A+. It doesn't make any sense, as there is no story that aleph-2 > 3 dimensions mathematically-wise, 1 dimension can only be larger or equal to aleph-1.

Aleph 2 +1 is just literally adding 1 to aleph 2. Obviously, adding 1 to aleph 2 barely makes a difference, like adding a drop of water in an infinite ocean, but we are talking about dimensions here. If higher dimensions see a lower dimension as fiction, then aleph 2+1 dimensional realm will clearly see an aleph 2 realm as fiction.
also, as far as i know, you cannot reach a higher aleph by adding as many numbers as possible. You can add infinity to aleph 1, multiply aleph 1 as many times as you like, but aleph 2 will be bigger
Aleph 2>>>>>>>>>aleph 1*anything

That's a huge misconception of aleph numbers, aleph-2 would constitutes all the set of uncountably infinities from aleph-1, making it uncountably infinitely larger than aleph-1 rather than being "beyond an infinite of infinities above aleph 1", and the difference between them in cardinality is like higher and lower dimensions, that's it.

That is not the point. This is dimensional tiering, every number between aleph 1 and aleph 2 itself is a dimension that sees the previous dimension as fiction.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

i will try to explain it diagramatically, since it seems i am not explaining well.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Aleph 2 +1 is just literally adding 1 to aleph 2. Obviously, adding 1 to aleph 2 barely makes a difference, like adding a drop of water in an infinite ocean, but we are talking about dimensions here. If higher dimensions see a lower dimension as fiction, then aleph 2+1 dimensional realm will clearly see an aleph 2 realm as fiction.
also, as far as i know, you cannot reach a higher aleph by adding as many numbers as possible. You can add infinity to aleph 1, multiply aleph 1 as many times as you like, but aleph 2 will be bigger
Aleph 2>>>>>>>>>aleph 1*anything

Where the hell did you learnt all of these? If you know how countably infinite works then you're aware that adding 1 to infinity or infinite+1 would still results the same cardinality, infinite+1 is infinity, infinite+infinite is infinity, even infinite*infinite is still baseline infinity, because bijection (one to one correspondence) exist, that you can biject the set of naturals or N (infinite) to the set of integers or Z (infinite+infinite), like:

N = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... infinity

Z = 0, -1, 1, -2, 2, -3, 3, -4, 4, -5, 5.... infinity

Thus, they have the same size. You can even biject infinite to infinite*infinite, or N to Q (the set of rationals) with Cantor's diagonal argument, because you need exponentiation and power set in order to reach higher infinity. So there's no such thing as aleph x+1 via your definition, at least. In order to see aleph-2 as nothing but fiction, you need aleph-3, which will correspond to 2D and 3D.

That is not the point. This is dimensional tiering, every number between aleph 1 and aleph 2 itself is a dimension that sees the previous dimension as fiction.

In Outerversal hierarchy topology-wise with the usage of aleph numbers, we can equalize the first layer as the first the dimension in analogy, and so on, that in order to reach the higher level of layer we need uncountable infinity of superiority over the previous layers. And so, if aleph-1 is the very first layer of 1-A then aleph-2 would be the second layer of 1-A, because the gap between them is uncountable.

Edit: typos

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

There is no such thing as aleph-x+1 or aleph-x+2 via your definition mathematically-wise and moreover, in order to get the next layer you need uncountably infinite difference which invalidates your example.

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

woah woah what's going on here,does someone really said that aleph 2 is outerversal+.

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

wha-

what is this.
this thread won't be this long if you remove your absurd logic about our tiering system for aleph in the first place ,there's no
"Aleph 2 +1 is just literally adding 1 to aleph 2. Obviously, adding 1 to aleph 2 barely makes a difference, like adding a drop of water in an infinite ocean, but we are talking about dimensions here. If higher dimensions see a lower dimension as fiction, then aleph 2+1 dimensional realm will clearly see an aleph 2 realm as fiction.
also, as far as i know, you cannot reach a higher aleph by adding as many numbers as possible. You can add infinity to aleph 1, multiply aleph 1 as many times as you like, but aleph 2 will be bigger
Aleph 2>>>>>>>>>aleph 1*anything"
We treat dimensional differences is equal to aleph differences ,such as "in order to reach an higher dimension you need to be uncountably infinitely bigger" whics is same to "See the lower dimensional realm as a fiction/Nothing" Because Uncountable infinite/Aleph 1 is equal to R (we usually Mention it as a D or Dimension) and this also applied to the outerversal structure.

Short Answer : The potency of dimension and Aleph-1 is literally equal
This is already explained in this site yet people still misunderstand it ,such a waste.

 

[Darksmash]

I think(from what I understood) what he is saying is that just like how we assume 1-B Layers are different arrangements of Aleph 1(R^2,R^3,R^4... Etc) why do we suddenly assume 1-A layers won't be similar for Aleph 2

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

I think(from what I understood) what he is saying is that just like how we assume 1-B Layers are different arrangements of Aleph 1(R^2,R^3,R^4... Etc) why do we suddenly assume 1-A layers won't be similar for Aleph 2

then explain this

 

[Darksmash]

then explain this

No clue honestly. lol

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

No clue honestly. lol

same lmao

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

I think(from what I understood) what he is saying is that just like how we assume 1-B Layers are different arrangements of Aleph 1(R^2,R^3,R^4... Etc) why do we suddenly assume 1-A layers won't be similar for Aleph 2

I don't seem to understand what is 1-B layers = aleph-1 you're talking about, aleph-1 dimensions can't be fall into High 1-B, let alone 1-B because High 1-B is aleph-0 (dimensions are the elements). It can only be Low 1-A since it is uncountable which is the actual very first layer of 1-A that aleph-infinite is 1-A+.

 

[Darksmash]

I don't seem to understand what is 1-B layers = aleph-1 you're talking about, aleph-1 dimensions can't be fall into High 1-B, let alone 1-B because High 1-B is aleph-0 (dimensions are the elements). It can only be Low 1-A since it is uncountable which is the actual very first layer of 1-A that aleph-infinite is 1-A+.

1-B Layers are equated to different powers of R(which all have the cardinality of aleph one, the elements being the number of points in space)

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

1-B Layers are equated to different powers of R(which all have the cardinality of aleph one, the elements being the number of points in space)

Then it wouldn't be aleph-1 since the only layer that is equated to it is the first layer, or 1 dimension.

 

[Darksmash]

Then it wouldn't be aleph-1 since the only layer that is equated to it is the first layer, or 1 dimension.

Not really. R, R^4, R^67 etc(layers of 1-B) all contain Aleph 1 amount of points(under continuum hypothesis ofc)

 

[Guardian_Doge]

we are talking about dimensions here, and higher dimensions themselves are higher infinities

They still represent the same cardinality of infinity though

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Not really. R, R^4, R^67 etc(layers of 1-B) all contain Aleph 1 amount of points(under continuum hypothesis ofc)

I don't think so, P(P(N) or R^2 is beth-2, which is equal to aleph-2 under continuum hypothesis, or did I misunderstood something?

 

[Darksmash]

I don't think so, P(P(N) or R^2 is beth-2, which is equal to aleph-2 under continuum hypothesis, or did I misunderstood something?

Power set of R would be 2^R, not R^2. Many people get confused between the two lol.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Power set of R would be 2^R, not R^2. Many people get confused between the two lol.

But beth-2 includes the power set of R, I don't really understand how beth-1/aleph-1 which is equal to R won't make beth-2/aleph-2 equal to R^2 or 2 dimensions. Can you cite me a source?