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Zeno EE resistance

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ZillertheBucko

ZillertheBucko

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I'm making this crt to clean up the aftermath of a certain other thread that got completely derailed and then closed early
let me make this clear, the point of the thread is EXCLUSIVELY EE reistance and nothing else
now, let me explain the justifications this
and for reference

don't forget to READ EVERY ARGUMENT BELOW BEFORE REPLYING
if you can't debunk them all then you haven't disproved me, so don't even think about it
1. Starting with the most obvious argument, Zeno claims that the world must disappear, and unless you're gonna downplay and be like planetary zeno, it's clear that zeno, as a part of the universe, would be getting hit by the erasing attack as well.
also during that scene we see that he is most certainly completely covered in the erasing attack
we know it erases on contact because of the time machine just barely escaping, likely the authors indiciating that if they touched it before getting out in time they would have been erased
2. we know for a fact that the white balls on his hand are the exact same energy that erases on contact, because in dragon ball the energy of the attacks charging still have the properties of those attacks, such as when Goku literally slides on kefla's kamehameha. In addition to that, the white balls directly expand from zeno's hands during the zamasu erasure
and also uhhh
common sense probabbly kicks in at some point maybe not here sometimes though
as for some counterarguments that may be relevant


Argument: "the energy doesn't come from the white balls because it actually shows the light appearing going from the edge of the screen to the inside of it, so it didn't expand from zeno's hands and therfore is different"
Rebuttal: he's just erasing multiple places simultaneously, we already know he can do that because he literally erases multiple tournament of power fighters as well as their universes selectively, but we know for a fact that in the zamasu scene, at least at the beginning, it was expanding from his hand and when it initially reaches zamasu he reacts, indicating that the erasure light had started to affect him when it was expanding

Argument: he can selectively erase things, so he chose not to erase himself during the zamasu scene
rebuttal: ok and? we know for a fact that he wasn't being selective in that scene because he was erasing the ENTIRE WORLD (universe)
it is illogical to say that just because he can he did, when it's already PROVEN that he didn't. The fact is, Zeno should count as part of the universe, and it is supported by the fact that he visibly is "erasing" himself

Argument: Sidra gave a dog hakai energy or something and he didn't die on contact so it's not erasing on contact!
rebuttal: dog has EE res don't care, also he didn't actually touch the hakai energy anyways since we see that the 2 times that he makes it appear from his hand they're both fakes

Argument: well other dragon ball characters charging their attacks should hurt themselves, but it doesn't so zeno hbas no ee resistance because he's not touching it!!
Rebuttal: first of all whoever has this argument probably didn't read any of the above points but whatever
again, goku grinding on kefla's beam with a kamehameha proves that he was touching his own kamehameha and not being hurt by it
EE and kamehameha are different since one kills on contact while the other requires you to actually release it to do damage with it, so just touching a kamehameha is not goku taking most of the energy of it head on unlike the person he shoots it with

I really hope that by the time I come back I don't see a senseless baseless argument in the replies that I've already debunked
and I'm gonna be pissed if this thread gets derailed into "saitama self sustenance" or some shit and then gets closed for being too long

Agree: 5
Disagree: 11
Neutral: 2
 
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Zeno's attack doesn't erase on contact though, that energy only expanded a little, then without expanding any further zamasu just started screaming and poofed out. it didn't expand and kill him gradually. So that goes back to the point that zeno can selectively erase his targets and has no reason to hit himself.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Zeno's attack doesn't erase on contact though, that energy only expanded a little, then without expanding any further zamasu just started screaming and poofed out. it didn't expand and kill him gradually. So that goes back to the point that zeno can selectively erase his targets and has no reason to hit himself.
Click to expand...
actually there is a very brief moment a 2:33-2:35 of the zamasu video in which it is visibly expanding and when it seems to reach zamasu it reacts
also I doubt that was him just scared and realizing what was gonna happen, since he didn't seem to give a **** about the fact that it was the omni king, and for all he knew it could have just been a big white kamehameha or something
but no, he reacted to it touching him and it erases on contact as well
also I already addressed the selective erasure argument in the post
he has no reason to hit himself, but we know that he DID and therfore we know that he's immune to being erased
also again, the time machine escaping right before the light touches it is a clear indication from the animators that had it touched them, they would have been erased
do you still wish to be added to the disagrees?
 
ZillerBucko said:
actually there is a very brief moment a 2:33-2:35 of the zamasu video in which it is visibly expanding and when it seems to reach zamasu it reacts
also I doubt that was him just scared and realizing what was gonna happen, since he didn't seem to give a **** about the fact that it was the omni king, and for all he knew it could have just been a big white kamehameha or something
but no, he reacted to it touching him and it erases on contact as well
also I already addressed the selective erasure argument in the post
he has no reason to hit himself, but we know that he DID and therfore we know that he's immune to being erased
also again, the time machine escaping right before the light touches it is a clear indication from the animators that had it touched them, they would have been erased
do you still wish to be added to the disagrees?
Click to expand...
That expanding light only expanded so far, it was only light. When it zoomed out, you can see everything just go white not a big expanding ball of ki, which is consistent with how his erase works in the TOP.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
That expanding light only expanded so far, it was only light. When it zoomed out, you can see everything just go white not a big expanding ball of ki, which is consistent with how his erase works in the TOP.
Click to expand...
I addressed the entirety of that specific argument in the original post
not to sound rude but, did you read the whole thing?
 
ZillerBucko said:
Argument: "the energy doesn't come from the white balls because it actually shows the light appearing going from the edge of the screen to the inside of it, so it didn't expand from zeno's hands and therfore is different"
Click to expand...
You talking about this right?
ZillerBucko said:
he's just erasing multiple places simultaneously, we already know he can do that because he literally erases multiple tournament of power fighters as well as their universes selectively, but we know for a fact that in the zamasu scene, at least at the beginning, it was expanding from his hand and when it initially reaches zamasu he reacts, indicating that the erasure light had started to affect him when it was expanding
Click to expand...
this is wrong, every time zeno erases a universe, the entire thing and all it's fighters and all things that originate from it poof out of existence, nothing expands and erases it gradually, that light that was coming out of zeno didn't erase anything, you just said it did, we see that the entire universe just goes white and gets erased.
oh and funny you say that zeno can erase multiple places simultaneously and that he can erase selectively but at the same time say he erased the entire universe but at the same time targeted himself, which makes no sense and is a contradiction.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
You talking about this right?

this is wrong, every time zeno erases a universe, the entire thing and all it's fighters and all things that originate from it poof out of existence, nothing expands and erases it gradually, that light that was coming out of zeno didn't erase anything, you just said it did, we see that the entire universe just goes white and gets erased.
oh and funny you say that zeno can erase multiple places simultaneously and that he can erase selectively but at the same time say he erased the entire universe but at the same time targeted himself, which makes no sense and is a contradiction.
Click to expand...
the problem is that none of this matters because it still expanded in the zamasu scene, and it's visibly shown, it's literally a fact that can't be argued with to any extent
and also it's not actually a contradiction because that's what is literally shown happening. Just because it doesn't make that much sense to you doesn't mean it didn't happen, and the fact that is happened is all that matters here
the light erases on contact
zeno touched it and didn't get erased
that's the very definition of EE resistance
we still know for a fact that when it WAS expanding, whatever touched it would get erased
and we still know that zeno was still completely inside the expanding ball
if you're gonna say that the big energy light of existence erasure was just for show and wouldn't have erased them, the burden of proof is on you for making that claim since I've already shown that it most likely erases on contact
and as long as you can't prove that (you can't), then the crt must be accepted
also narrative arguments they exist blah blah blah there's no reason frieza should have it but not zeno
also you still didn't confirm if you were adding to disagrees or not
 
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ZillerBucko said:
the problem is that none of this matters because it still expanded in the zamasu scene, and it's visibly shown, it's literally a fact that can't be argued with to any extent
and also it's not actually a contradiction because that's what is literally shown happening. Just because it doesn't make that much sense to you doesn't mean it didn't happen, and the fact that is happened is all that matters here
the light erases on contact
zeno touched it and didn't get erased
that's the very definition of EE resistance
we still know for a fact that when it WAS expanding, whatever touched it would get erased
and we still know that zeno was still completely outside the expanding ball
if you're gonna say that the big energy light of existence erasure was just for show and wouldn't have erased them, the burden of proof is on you for making that claim since I've already shown that it most likely erases on contact
and as long as you can't prove that (you can't), then the crt must be accepted
also narrative arguments they exist blah blah blah there's no reason frieza should have it but not zeno
also you still didn't confirm if you were adding to disagrees or not
Click to expand...
I have more counter arguments for this but I'll wait and stay neutral for now.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Zeno's attack doesn't erase on contact though, that energy only expanded a little, then without expanding any further zamasu just started screaming and poofed out. it didn't expand and kill him gradually. So that goes back to the point that zeno can selectively erase his targets and has no reason to hit himself.
Click to expand...
Thing is, the attack was near-instantaneous, so that argument doesn't exactly work.
 
Now, as for whether or not I disagree or agree, I'm a bit more neutral. I don't think that's enough to grant resistance to EE, seeng as this is his own energy. It's like giving UI Goku resistance to heat manipulation cause he's covered by a hot aura, it just doesn't work. But I can see where this comes from, so I'll stay neutral for now.
 
Tarang123 said:
Now, as for whether or not I disagree or agree, I'm a bit more neutral. I don't think that's enough to grant resistance to EE, seeng as this is his own energy. It's like giving UI Goku resistance to heat manipulation cause he's covered by a hot aura, it just doesn't work. But I can see where this comes from, so I'll stay neutral for now.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute
UI goku kinda should have resistance to heat manipulation now that you say that
maybe I should make another crt later…
 
Tarang123 said:
He honestly shouldn't, it's his own energy. Not sure why he'd resist that lol.
Click to expand...
well it being his doesn't mean he's unaffected by it anyways
think of it this way
if you're able to raise your body heat to the point where it burns everything you touch to a crisp, then even though it's your own body you should still be burning, but the fact that you don't means you must have a high heat resistance
anyways I'm not gonna derail the thread since that's usually what dooms these db crts
anyways adding to neutrals
 
ZillerBucko said:
well it being his doesn't mean he's unaffected by it anyways
Click to expand...
It should, if it didn't then it would be a weakness lol.

ZillerBucko said:
if you're able to raise your body heat to the point where it burns everything you touch to a crisp, then even though it's your own body you should still be burning, but the fact that you don't means you must have a high heat resistance
Click to expand...
Except for the fact that this isn't regular heat, but something quite like ki in general, so that still doesn't work.
 
Goku already resist heat to a massive degree, (can swim in lava, took a jet exhaust point blank, resisted heat of reentry unconscious and wounded) so adding that would be redundant.
 
true true
anyways as for EE
the main point of debate here seems to be that it erases on contact, so let me elaborate further with some more direct evidence to hopefully change some minds
ZillerBucko said:
and for reference
we know it erases on contact because of the time machine just barely escaping, likely the authors indiciating that if they touched it before getting out in time they would have been erased

Argument: "the energy doesn't come from the white balls because it actually shows the light appearing going from the edge of the screen to the inside of it, so it didn't expand from zeno's hands and therfore is different"
Rebuttal: he's just erasing multiple places simultaneously, we already know he can do that because he literally erases multiple tournament of power fighters as well as their universes selectively, but we know for a fact that in the zamasu scene, at least at the beginning, it was expanding from his hand and when it initially reaches zamasu he reacts, indicating that the erasure light had started to affect him when it was expanding

Argument: well other dragon ball characters charging their attacks should hurt themselves, but it doesn't so zeno hbas no ee resistance because he's not touching it!!
Rebuttal: first of all whoever has this argument probably didn't read any of the above points but whatever
again, goku grinding on kefla's beam with a kamehameha proves that he was touching his own kamehameha and not being hurt by it
EE and kamehameha are different since one kills on contact while the other requires you to actually release it to do damage with it, so just touching a kamehameha is not goku taking most of the energy of it head on unlike the person he shoots it with
Click to expand...

and
ZillerBucko said:
actually there is a very brief moment a 2:33-2:35 of the zamasu video in which it is visibly expanding and when it seems to reach zamasu it reacts
also I doubt that was him just scared and realizing what was gonna happen, since he didn't seem to give a **** about the fact that it was the omni king, and for all he knew it could have just been a big white kamehameha or something
but no, he reacted to it touching him and it erases on contact as well
Click to expand...
I've cut out some information so that all that's left is specifically the arguments relating to if it erases on contact or not, since I think we're mostly on the same page with him touching his own attack at this point
to add to the argument, we have also scene with similar abilities that there is both a completely selective version with no form and also an energy attack version that erases on contact
beerus using hakai on zamasu for example, it seems as though zamasu simply disappears without beerus shooting any kind of blast
however, there is also the physical form such as toppo's and sidra's hakai, which does indeed erase on contact
generally when things are being erased completely selectively like that, it's invisible and doesn't take a form, unlike zeno's big white ball which was clearly expanding and visible
also we know for a fact it wasn't selective since he was going to erase goku and the time machine as well (had they not escaped)
and also I believe it's just the general wiki assumption that if it looks like a physical energy attack then it's probably gonna affect things that touch it (unless shown otherwise but there are no anti feats for zeno obviously so)

anyways I hope this helped convince a little bit more, hoping to maybe see a new agree?
 
Gonna disagree. Trying to take the "destroy the world" statements and interpreting it as Zeno actively trying to kill himself, since he is part of the world, but failing is just so stretching that to a nonsensical degree. Heck, would you seriously say the world wasn't deleted because Zeno remained?

And that's the only argument in the OP against Zeno just being able to control his ability so as to not hurt himself when attacking. So yeah, I'm going with Zeno's erasure just not being a suicide attack in nature.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Gonna disagree. Trying to take the "destroy the world" statements and interpreting it as Zeno actively trying to kill himself, since he is part of the world, but failing is just so stretching that to a nonsensical degree. Heck, would you seriously say the world wasn't deleted because Zeno remained?

And that's the only argument in the OP against Zeno just being able to control his ability so as to not hurt himself when attacking. So yeah, I'm going with Zeno's erasure just not being a suicide attack in nature.
Click to expand...
Yeah, seems to sum up the issue quite well. Then again, Zeno probably would have resistance just by scaling massively above GODs, but that has never actually been seen before.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Gonna disagree. Trying to take the "destroy the world" statements and interpreting it as Zeno actively trying to kill himself, since he is part of the world, but failing is just so stretching that to a nonsensical degree. Heck, would you seriously say the world wasn't deleted because Zeno remained?

And that's the only argument in the OP against Zeno just being able to control his ability so as to not hurt himself when attacking. So yeah, I'm going with Zeno's erasure just not being a suicide attack in nature.
Click to expand...
This makes sense. But his argument is also, that we see a light coming from zeno which engulfed him which he's claiming to be effecting himself too. (Plenty of things wrong with this but I don't fell like pointing it out.)
 
Bruh your counter arguments don’t make an ounce of sense

You’re using the ball of white light as supporting information for his erasure but said light/ki expanding over the entire space of a universe has never happened, it’s just for show before the universe gets wiped.

Using this ki energy as the supporting argument fails when you realize he deleted other universes in the same way he killed Zamasu WITHOUT erasing the entire null realm and all its participants.

Disagree FRA
 
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DontTalkDT said:
Gonna disagree. Trying to take the "destroy the world" statements and interpreting it as Zeno actively trying to kill himself, since he is part of the world, but failing is just so stretching that to a nonsensical degree. Heck, would you seriously say the world wasn't deleted because Zeno remained?

And that's the only argument in the OP against Zeno just being able to control his ability so as to not hurt himself when attacking. So yeah, I'm going with Zeno's erasure just not being a suicide attack in nature.
Click to expand...
this still completely fails to acknowledge the vast majority of the arguments and is an oversimplification
the point is that because he knows he can't be erased "actively trying to kill himself" doesn't apply because it wasn't gonna kill him to begin with
and also you completely utterly ignored the fact that I already know that zeno is able to control what his ability touches, but the fact is that he simply did not do it in the zamasu scene because it VISIBLY TOUCHES HIM in the scene
and on top of all of that you're going to say that Zeno has no EE, it would be far more effective to debunk more than just the tiniest piece of my argument if you actually are gonna post this
but whatever, no matter how illogical the reply is I am obligated by the wiki to add the disagree
 
RisingIons said:
Bruh your counter arguments don’t make an ounce of sense

You’re using the ball of white light as supporting information for his erasure but said light/ki expanding over the entire space of a universe has never happened, it’s just for show before the universe gets wiped.

Using this ki energy as the supporting argument fails when you realize he deleted other universes in the same way he killed Zamasu WITHOUT erasing the entire null realm and all its participants.
Click to expand...
thank you so much, for completely ignoring the entire original post (despite my specific request to read it in its entirety) and continuing with poor logic that has already been addressed, but whatever I'm still gonna have to repeat myself to you specifically then
1. It does not matter if it expanded over the entire universe or not, and your arguments are trying to prove something that doesn't even help your case
you literally cannot deny that this expansion of the energy happened, and not once have I tried to say that it expanded across the entire universe
all that matters is the fact that the expansion still reached zamasu and caused him to react to it, only after the time machine left did the entire universe get erased instantaneously, but that part of it is irrelevant to what I'm proving
but you seem quite insistent on repeating false arguments so unfortunately I don't feel like even if it was explicitly stated and explicitly demonstrated in dbs would you ever even consider zeno having EE, but regardless I'm still gonna explain why you're wrong completely
2. if you are trying to say that he is able to selectively erase people, then yes that is true, but again, I must repeat myself
he is capable of doing it, but he still VISIBLY DID NOT DO IT
capability does not mean it happened, especially when it is quite literally in the most obvious way possible shown that he did not do it
he says the world must be destroyed, not just zamasu, he was literally not being discriminate with what he was erasing, he was just erasing absolutely all of the universe. there is absolutely no reason to think that zeno was discriminate in any way, and there is absolutely no reason to think that zeno didn't just resist his EE, it literally makes no sense
stop saying that because he can do things, that they happened despite the fact that we already know they didn't happen, please just stop doing that


when it was accepted before that destroying zamasu was done with a ki blast, everybody allowed the durability to scale to that despite it not even being a physical striking attack, it was literally accepted that he HIT HIMSELF WITH THE KI BLAST
but now suddenly, despite even more evidence that he hit himself being explained, people decide that zeno has no EE just for some kind of ridiculously pointless downplay? the hipocrisy is ******* astronomical here by the wiki, it's an absolute ******* enigma that this thread had to be made in the first place
 
and yet in spite of all that, logical arguments seem to not be acknowledged here since apparently anybody can just actively choose to be wrong and disagree with the crt, so it just gets gunned down
whatever, as long as mods introducing some "new EE resistance standard!!!!" doesn't happen then it should be fine
 
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