One Piece Chapter 1021: "Demonio" (Official Release)

[RoyGundam]

Hence why she said "we are both women, so I don't need to hold back"

Actually, in the official translation, she says: "I'm a fighter, you know. And I show no mercy to anyone ... even women"

Which is quite different

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Actually, in the official translation, she says: "I'm a fighter, you know. And I show no mercy to anyone ... even women"

Which is quite different

But is the translation correct? The official version has been known to make mistakes.

 

[RoyGundam]

But is the translation correct? The official version has been known to make mistakes.

I think it's better to go by the official translation unless mistakes are explicitly pointed out by Japanese fans

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Actually, in the official translation, she says: "I'm a fighter, you know. And I show no mercy to anyone ... even women"

Which is quite different

But in context it doesn't make remotely sense to say "I'm a fighter so no holding back", especially the fact we know full well about Maria's personality. Her saying "she doesn't hold back against women" doesn't contradict with her sadistic and assuring demeanor towards men.

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

I think it's better to go by the official translation unless mistakes are explicitly pointed out by Japanese fans

Fair enough

 

[RoyGundam]

But in context it doesn't make remotely sense to say "I'm a fighter so no holding back", especially the fact we know full well about Maria's personality. Her saying "she doesn't hold back against women" doesn't contradict with her sadistic and assuring demeanor towards men.

Whatever. That's what she said according to the official translators. I also have not seen any indication of Black Maria being specifically a misandrist

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Whatever. That's what she said according to the official translators. I also have not seen any indication of Black Maria being specifically a misandrist

Whatever isn't an argument though? Maria has been always portrayed as flirtatious, sadistic and violent. Also her fruit is based on Jorogumo - Yokai from Japanese folklore. It's said it can shapeshift into a beautiful woman aka woman-spider (they possess a cunning intelligence and sees humans as nothing more than insects, Jorogumo's favorite prey is young, handsome men who are looking for Love cough cough a certain Simpsmoke).

Why would Oda choose such a fruit for her and make her follow the stereotype of Jorogumo? The answer is simple, she was designed for it. It's in her nature to view "cute, handsome men" as her favorite prey. Her saying "we are both warriors so I ain't holding back" doesn't make any sense, because she would imply she had any intention to hold back against Robin in the first place. "We are both women so I won't hold back" is in-character for her, especially the fact she is an accurate presentation of a Jorogumo.

 

[RoyGundam]

Whatever isn't an argument though? Maria has been always portrayed as flirtatious, sadistic and violent. Also her fruit is based on Jorogumo - Yokai from Japanese folklore. It's said it can shapeshift into a beautiful woman aka woman-spider (they possess a cunning intelligence and sees humans as nothing more than insects, Jorogumo's favorite prey is young, handsome men who are looking for Love cough cough a certain Simpsmoke).

That's fan theory. Black Maria has not shown specific hatred or dismissal of men so far

 

[RoyGundam]

Her saying "we are both warriors so I ain't holding back" doesn't make any sense

Because she doesn't say that in the official translation. What she says is just that she doesn't hold back on anyone. Even women. Which makes perfect sense considering her general sadistic tendencies

 

[RazumaHiroki]

That's fan theory. Black Maria has not shown specific hatred or dismissal of men so far

I never said hatred. Did you even read what I said? I emphasized that she prefers men over women, by sadistic it can also refer to her toying with young men. So idk what part of it is fan theory?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Because she doesn't say that in the official translation. What she says is just that she doesn't hold back on anyone. Even women. Which makes perfect sense considering her general sadistic tendencies

The Official translation aren't always 100% accurate you know, also just because it's "official" doesn't make the other translations any less accurate. There are also different translations that makes more sense in the context, which generate different interpretations. Her saying "warriors", when she doesn't consider herself as one comes out of nowhere, she's more or the less the playful and sadistic person than anything.

It would make sense her to say that in front of Sanji or another young man precisely because of her sadistic tendencies and Jorogumo nature, emphasizing she doesn't care to break her toy/prey. However! she said that to Robin, a woman, why would she feel the need to say that in the first place when she's already fighting against someone she doesn't view as prey or important/worthy?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

You still haven't explained to me how exactly that's a fan theory? you are telling me that Oda wasn't intending her to behave like a Jorogumo, despite making her extremely flirtatious and sadistic?

 

[Eminiteable]

Spoilers for 1022 are out: https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-chapter-1022-spoilers-out.122334/

 

[RoyGundam]

The Official translation aren't always 100% accurate you know, also just because it's "official" doesn't make the other translations any less accurate. There are also different translations that makes more sense in the context, which generate different interpretations. Her saying "warriors", when she doesn't consider herself as one comes out of nowhere, she's more or the less the playful and sadistic person than anything.

It would make sense her to say that in front of Sanji or another young man precisely because of her sadistic tendencies and Jorogumo nature, emphasizing she doesn't care to break her toy/prey. However! she said that to Robin, a woman, why would she feel the need to say that in the first place when she's already fighting against someone she doesn't view as prey or important/worthy?

... Look, all I am saying is that you shouldn't extrapolate that she was holding back against Sanji based on one line from the fan translation that is directly contradicted by the official translation. If you want to continue to do that, I reserve the right to call that fan-theory

 

[RazumaHiroki]

The "toying with young men" part is fan theory, unless you can show me an instance of her saying she does that

She doesn't need to say it outright because you could already guess based on her personality and her actions that she really is a Jorogumo what more proof do you need? a Character doesn't always need to say everything for the audience to get where she/he is coming from.

When Doffy first appeared in the story, everyone could guess "he's behind some events". His fruit the Ito Ito no mi perfectly represents his personality as he is the one pulling the strings.

Moria was once known for rivaling Kaido in the past, because of his past and accomplishments. So subsequently people feared him and he was hired as one of the Shichibukai. However, his current self is a giant lazy onion, so basically "The shadow of himself" which was also Oda's intentions.

It is far-fetched to call it a "fan-theory", considering that's Oda intentions with Black Maria in the first place.

https://media.**********.net/attachments/802998108355166248/874935084157915166/TQsIge2qHZVREPgNF9nw1611723056.jpg https://media.**********.net/attachments/802998108355166248/874935084447318026/sZTjTLcJRuwNJLwLmavp1611723168.jpg

 

[RoyGundam]

She doesn't need to say it outright because you could already guess based on her personality and her actions that she really is a Jorogumo what more proof do you need? a Character doesn't always need to say everything for the audience to get where she/he is coming from.

When Doffy first appeared in the story, everyone could guess "he's behind some events". His fruit the Ito Ito no mi perfectly represents his personality as he is the one pulling the strings.

Moria was once known for rivaling Kaido in the past, because of his past and accomplishments. So subsequently people feared him and he was hired as one of the Shichibukai. However, his current self is a giant lazy onion, so basically "The shadow of himself" which was also Oda's intentions.

It is far-fetched to call it a "fan-theory", considering that's Oda intentions with Black Maria in the first place.

https://media.**********.net/attachments/802998108355166248/874935084157915166/TQsIge2qHZVREPgNF9nw1611723056.jpg https://media.**********.net/attachments/802998108355166248/874935084447318026/sZTjTLcJRuwNJLwLmavp1611723168.jpg

None of the above is an indication of Black Maria holding back against Sanji

 

[RazumaHiroki]

None of the above is an indication of Black Maria holding back against Sanji

I see, that's your point now. She was holding back for another reason, because she wanted Sanji to call Robin, in an attempt to bait her into a trap.

Also, there's no indication of her being serious. She punched Sanji with unnamed attacks, calls him a pet affectionately, and on top of that mocks Robin in front of him. Think of it that way, She viewed Sanji as both a punching bag and pet.

 

[Antvasima]

Spoilers for 1022 are out: https://vsbattles.com/threads/one-piece-chapter-1022-spoilers-out.122334/

Thank you. I will close this thread then.