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Nah beerus > toppo but toppo scales to half 2-C regardless beerus should be 2-C also
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2-C Dragon Ball Super upgrade
- Thread starter FluffyCreatureZ
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- Thread starter
- #722
What is your point, I don't get how that is relevant.
If Toppo becomes At least 2-C then Supressed Jiren will be 2-C.This still going? You guys has nothing else to do?
You can go back and forth for a year and it still would mean nothing without staff here. Not to mention there is some absurd claims such as Suppressed Jiren being stronger than GoDs Oof.
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That claim by orange was misunderstanding & we solved it read later what happenedThis still going? You guys has nothing else to do?
You can go back and forth for a year and it still would mean nothing without staff here. Not to mention there is some absurd claims such as Suppressed Jiren being stronger than GoDs Oof.
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oh, so I think we should make a differ between 2 things
one can be in the level of GoDs can mean 2 things imo, he can be in the level of the 12 GoDs, or he can be a GoD but still not very strong, for example Merus is an angel but he is not on the level of the 12 angels
I think Toppo should be handled in the same way, even in the manga a GoD said that Toppo and SSG Goku are already on their level, but later we are shown that they are still fodders in comparison to the 12 GoDs. Any statement about GoD level should be handled in this way unless there is a supportive evidence or a more explanation, like Jiren for example, there are statements that he is on the level of GoD from Toei animation iirc, they said that his full power is said to be at the level of GoD, I can bring the scan if u are curious enough. He has another supportive evidence like the Whis statement which was confirmed by Belmod himself.
one can be in the level of GoDs can mean 2 things imo, he can be in the level of the 12 GoDs, or he can be a GoD but still not very strong, for example Merus is an angel but he is not on the level of the 12 angels
I think Toppo should be handled in the same way, even in the manga a GoD said that Toppo and SSG Goku are already on their level, but later we are shown that they are still fodders in comparison to the 12 GoDs. Any statement about GoD level should be handled in this way unless there is a supportive evidence or a more explanation, like Jiren for example, there are statements that he is on the level of GoD from Toei animation iirc, they said that his full power is said to be at the level of GoD, I can bring the scan if u are curious enough. He has another supportive evidence like the Whis statement which was confirmed by Belmod himself.
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Because you're saying since it takes 2 gods to be 2-C then half of two which is one is low 2-C. That argument makes 0 sense powerscaling wise.
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- Thread starter
- #726
Good point, but that would be the case for not just toppo but all the other GoDs as well, pretty much all the GoDs except champa beerus and belmod have no feats and yet they are still scaled to at least low 2-C via vados' statement, so this means either down grade the GoDs below at least low 2-C which is extremely unlikely and pretty stupid or scale toppo to the GoDs since there is no reason why he shouldn't scale, he becomes a GoD therefore like all other GoDs he would get the rating and scale to vados' feat and there are no contradictions in this scaling if toppo scales to the other GoDs I checked in case and even shared it at the top.
If 2 gods are 2-C then one GoD is not low 2-C they would be half 2-C or also called unquantifiably above low 2-C, which means only people who scale to the GoDs get the tier.
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Oh so, do we accept information from the manga for scaling the 12 GoDs? like X is > Y and so.
Vietthai96
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Toppp become GoD doesn't mean he on the same level as other GoDs, where the hell do you guys got such idea, just because he is called GoD Toppo??
Hasty12345
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how has this not been closed yet....
Vietthai96
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Because peole here really love scaling and to be honest, i think they already scale the like of UI Goku and Jiren to above even the angel already, possibly even stronger than Zen'o by how much they scaling
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Lmao
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Well according to our tiering system, half of baseline 2-C no longer classifies them as 2-C.
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- Thread starter
- #733
No anime and manga scaling are independent. The statement we are using is in the anime.
Yes all GoDs scale to vados' statement about 2 GoDs being enough to destroy 2 universes, even featless GoDs scale to this statement.
We discussed this already, we know that 2x Beerus is 2-C so this means and back scaling from 2-C must give us low 2-C so half 2-C is also unquantifiably above low 2-C.
Vietthai96
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Haha lol, Association fallacy, Toppo become GoD doesn't mean he automatically = 12 official GoDs, h3 have no feat to back this up, Beerus and Champa have their own feat, 3 GoDs who fight to test ToP stage also have their feat of being equal to each othet, so they can scale to each others. Toppo have no feat of contented with GoD to scale him, he only have feat of fighting SSBE which roundly equal to SSBKK x20 which no way near GoDs level he both of SSBE and SSBKK x2p got manhandled by Jiren who not rven at full power
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- #735
Sure association fallacy whatever, what about the other GoDs who have no feats? Or how it's literally stated that a GoD fighting another GoD will cause the destruction of 2 universes? This statement would apply to all GoDs and the wiki scales the featless GoDs to this statement as well, so tell me, why is toppo an exception to this rule? And what does Jiren have to do with this? This doesn't contradict the scaling, it just means Jiren is far superior to the GoDs while suppressed.
ProudLearner
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This CRT will not go anywhere and should be close.
This has been discussed last year (or 2019, I don't remember) and was decided to downgrade SSB Gogeta from At Least Low 2-C, Possibly 2-C to Low-2C because users were opening multiple CRT's trying to upgrade MUI Goku, UBW Jiren, and FPSSJ Broly to that tier. Using a statement from Goku (from the end of the Broly movie) knowing how inconsistent is the power Beerus is in the series; therefore, should not be used to scale. Only the Angels should scale to the half 2-C feat.
We should add a Note for Jiren, Gogeta, Goku, and Broly pages to explain why we don't scale to "possibly stronger than Beerus" statement from Goku at the end of the Broly Movie.
This has been discussed last year (or 2019, I don't remember) and was decided to downgrade SSB Gogeta from At Least Low 2-C, Possibly 2-C to Low-2C because users were opening multiple CRT's trying to upgrade MUI Goku, UBW Jiren, and FPSSJ Broly to that tier. Using a statement from Goku (from the end of the Broly movie) knowing how inconsistent is the power Beerus is in the series; therefore, should not be used to scale. Only the Angels should scale to the half 2-C feat.
We should add a Note for Jiren, Gogeta, Goku, and Broly pages to explain why we don't scale to "possibly stronger than Beerus" statement from Goku at the end of the Broly Movie.
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- #737
No. Goku's statement is reliable we already agree on that, and jiren and goku don't scale to broly they scale to the GoDs and higher, we are currently discussing whether Toppo should scale to the GoDs as well.
Vietthai96
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Goku and Jiren atr unquantifiable above GoDs, and don't use Dragon Ball wiki and Magazine logic here
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- #739
Why not? I've literally given you evidence from the daizenshuu which is approved by toriyama, I've given you evidence from dragon ball wiki which is a wiki so the information is reliable and I've literally given evidence for the statement from the show to prove it's consistency. It's facts, I don't care if you disagree with it.
Vietthai96
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We don't use wiki as they are fan edit, daizenshuu is not aproved by toriyama, nothing stated that, we use our own standard
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I already made this argument using Zamasu. The position you're in doesn't correlate with the power you have, necessarily. Toppo by feats is stronger than Sidra and he's only an apprentice. Zamasu's natural fighting abilities made him the strongest supreme kai we've seen, yet he's only an apprentice.
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- #742
The wiki literally has the daizenshuu referenced for that statement, and the daizenshuu is in fact approved by toriyama. He himself said that he wished he could've had it's information when he was still making the show, quote is here. And stuff in the daizenshuu is used here as well.
Vietthai96
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What feat of Toppo > Sidra, don't bring the argument that this GoD > that GoD
This wiki use it own standard, not using Dragon Ball wiki, Toriyama or not his word are not taken as fact here, unless there are other extreme evidence to back up his word
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He is talking about how toppo destroyed Frieza with a hakai, the same Frieza who stopped Sidra’s destruction attack.
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The feat in question doesn't matter. The point I made does.
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- #746
So according to you, all the evidence from guides, wikis, toriyama and the show itself plus these are all sources that VS wiki uses are all not good enough evidence, at this point you're not arguing anymore you're just saying I don't like it so no. Yeah mate, stop your bullshit and go sleep or something.
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You know that he is a god, he scales to the statement.
Nothing else, nothing more.
Exactly why wouldn't he when he is a literal God of destruction.
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Ih so not using the curator of the manga, the book that which the curator approves is prohibited? Are you listening to yourself? The literal curator approves of it, nothing more nothing less. We will use it unless it contradicts something in the show
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Wow people having a gala time here, should I bring up some tea ,biscuits and cake too now??
Jeez just slap likely/possibly 2C on SSB Gogeta, and MUI Goku or whatever that is obvious and doesn't need a debate and call some mods and end this already.
Jeez just slap likely/possibly 2C on SSB Gogeta, and MUI Goku or whatever that is obvious and doesn't need a debate and call some mods and end this already.
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- #751
But there's proof that Toppo scales to the GoDs so if that's accepted then it will change the scaling.
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Well personally, warping up a dimension that's above 12/18 universes in size, giving trouble to ssbe vegeta and blue goku.
Actually toppo for blw showed the highest feats in ap in all of the God's baring champa and beerus.
And even if he was the weakest god of destruction, the statement scales nonetheless sooo
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He would only scale to half the feat yes
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- Thread starter
- #755
she just said 2 GoDs can destroy 2 universes and it didn't appear that they were serious or going all out, so I doon't see a problem with toppo scaling.
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New scaling
Half 2-C : God of destruction toppo "he was stated to be a god of destruction, has the mindset, abilities of one, threw away his morals to become one and he is ghe candidate for being the GoD of U11." Ssbe vegeta "since he defeated toppo duh" ssbkk20 goku since his performance against jiren was relatively the same as ssbe vegeta, indicating that they are at the same level of strength. UI sign 2&3, possibly base gogeta.
2-C : "UI sign 3 possibly?" suppressed jiren. Full power jiren, and MUI goku. "Possibly base gogeta, ssj broly, ssj gogeta, lssj broly, ssb gogeta.
Half 2-C : God of destruction toppo "he was stated to be a god of destruction, has the mindset, abilities of one, threw away his morals to become one and he is ghe candidate for being the GoD of U11." Ssbe vegeta "since he defeated toppo duh" ssbkk20 goku since his performance against jiren was relatively the same as ssbe vegeta, indicating that they are at the same level of strength. UI sign 2&3, possibly base gogeta.
2-C : "UI sign 3 possibly?" suppressed jiren. Full power jiren, and MUI goku. "Possibly base gogeta, ssj broly, ssj gogeta, lssj broly, ssb gogeta.
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UI Sign 2 unless you believe SSBE Vegeta > Kefla.
Also please get rid of "half 2-C"
Also please get rid of "half 2-C"
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Okay I will edit the scaling.
And why should I get rid of "Half 2-C"
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Half 2-C just sounds weird. Just edit the justifications. 
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You dare call half 2-C weird? This is treason of the highest orderHalf 2-C just sounds weird. Just edit the justifications.
And I just did
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