My Hero Academia - Scaling Revisions [Top Tier Edition]

[Kingofwolves999]

Endeavor and Mirko were only majorly injured from stab wounds or spatial manipulation and once again all blunt hits were>AM so that isn't an anti feat for them equalling AM by your Nomu scaling.

She could literally just dodge or cancel it out like AM did or take the hit since Air Cannon doesn't even fully scale to AM.

Yeah but AM is fighting someone weaker than Hood and has to go all Plus Ultra so these aren't comparable. AFO might be weaker than AM and Shiggy since he only clashed with suppressed AM. Even then Endeavor could just have lower piercing durability.

So exactly what I’m saying, which is they have less durability than All Might. All Might doesn’t have some special ability that makes him immune to stabbing, he’s literally just that durable. So if he can shrug off impalement, why can’t they? How much stronger are you supposing High Ends even are than AFO?

All Might has to go Plus Ultra because he is legit at his limit already with no time while fighting a being that directly counters his main method of attack. Is that supposed to be an anti-feat for him that, when he’s already past the limit and dying while fighting something that counters, he doesn’t do as well?

Also, are you forgetting that Endeavor ALSO had to go plus ultra? That he couldn’t even move halfway through the fight due to pain and injuries? That he was worse off from All Might after a max of 3 hits, one of which All Might suffers through daily and had hit by Nomu? Remember when Nomu gripped All Might’s weak spot and started stabbing into it, but he just kept fighting afterwards and immediately took an attack to save Bakugo?

You're going for trivial wording now?. He survived, he took it whatever. He still got hit by someone greater than AM and kept fighting.

Because you argued Nomu is weaker than AM and that's objective proof he isn't.

You literally tried to say my argument was based solely on AP when I never even said it was. Grabbed? When did Woman close her hand around her face? She smacked her into the wall.


Who knows?

Trivial? There’s a big difference between taking attacks and surviving them. Taking attacks implies that you can withstand many of them, surviving implies that you can’t. Endeavor gets hit by Hood seriously only 5 times the whole fight. Two times for his eye and stomach, once when he got tossed into buildings (after which he was in so much pain he could only move by propelling himself) and again when Hood stabs him arm then bites him. Compare that to All Might directly tanking a punch from Nomu twice, doing a punch clash with Nomu, having his weak spot stabbed by Nomu, and doing all of this whole heavily weakened by his time limit being already done. All Might was operating under difficult conditions from the beginning, while Hood just beat Endeavor to that point.

Nomu being comparable to an All Might already past his limit while having help from Kurogiri to hit his weak spot? Sure. If All Might had his full time and Nomu wasn’t aided to strike his weak spot though he would’ve beaten him far more easily.

Your argument is based on incredulity. You cannot possibly fathom that All Might, at his weakest, can be surpassed or rivaled by the other top heroes. And while that is clearly Woman grabbing Mirko then throwing her, as you can see via her hand motion, let’s say it is a smack. That is not comparable to a punch to the face. If she was that damaged by a smack, than a punch would harm her significantly worse. Bottom line, she would not just get bruised from a punch like All Might does from Nomu.

I mean, if your entire argument is stopped by me saying “yes he can beat AFO,” then that shuts down everything you’re claiming doesn’t it? You must have some kind of argument against that claim.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

So exactly what I’m saying, which is they have less durability than All Might. All Might doesn’t have some special ability that makes him immune to stabbing, he’s literally just that durable. So if he can shrug off impalement, why can’t they? How much stronger are you supposing High Ends even are than AFO?

All Might has to go Plus Ultra because he is legit at his limit already with no time while fighting a being that directly counters his main method of attack. Is that supposed to be an anti-feat for him that, when he’s already past the limit and dying while fighting something that counters, he doesn’t do as well?

Also, are you forgetting that Endeavor ALSO had to go plus ultra? That he couldn’t even move halfway through the fight due to pain and injuries? That he was worse off from All Might after a max of 3 hits, one of which All Might suffers through daily and had hit by Nomu? Remember when Nomu gripped All Might’s weak spot and started stabbing into it, but he just kept fighting afterwards and immediately took an attack to save Bakugo?


Trivial? There’s a big difference between taking attacks and surviving them. Taking attacks implies that you can withstand many of them, surviving implies that you can’t. Endeavor gets hit by Hood seriously only 5 times the whole fight. Two times for his eye and stomach, once when he got tossed into buildings (after which he was in so much pain he could only move by propelling himself) and again when Hood stabs him arm then bites him. Compare that to All Might directly tanking a punch from Nomu twice, doing a punch clash with Nomu, having his weak spot stabbed by Nomu, and doing all of this whole heavily weakened by his time limit being already done. All Might was operating under difficult conditions from the beginning, while Hood just beat Endeavor to that point.

Nomu being comparable to an All Might already past his limit while having help from Kurogiri to hit his weak spot? Sure. If All Might had his full time and Nomu wasn’t aided to strike his weak spot though he would’ve beaten him far more easily.

Your argument is based on incredulity. You cannot possibly fathom that All Might, at his weakest, can be surpassed or rivaled by the other top heroes. And while that is clearly Woman grabbing Mirko then throwing her, as you can see via her hand motion, let’s say it is a smack. That is not comparable to a punch to the face. If she was that damaged by a smack, than a punch would harm her significantly worse. Bottom line, she would not just get bruised from a punch like All Might does from Nomu.

I mean, if your entire argument is stopped by me saying “yes he can beat AFO,” then that shuts down everything you’re claiming doesn’t it? You must have some kind of argument against that claim.

Endeavor doesn't have a quirk that buffs his durability. AM does. This is like Kirishima vs Deku. One can take cutting and piercing hits while the other can't.

Endeavor was weakened by his flashfire moves. Remember what I said about reading my posts? This is it. It has been brought up by Shouto and Endeavor that extreme heat weakens physical functions.

Taking hits doesn't mean tanking. That wasn't what I said. Taking a hit to me just means you got hit but kept going. If you wanna pull out a dictionary on me and prove me wrong sure I'll alter my wording I guess.

Nomu is stated as AM's equal by several people. One of whom is the entire crux of the Nomu scaling.

Yeah and if AM lost part of his face from a whiffed hit, a full punch should hurt more. Kindly stop putting words in my mouth and assuming my thoughts. My argument is based on the story implications. Endeavor shouldn't be rivalling AM and taking on people stronger than him when he gets smacked aside by AFO and needs a whole team to take on quirkless Shigaraki. The HE Nomu never have a statement from Endeavor that they're equal to AM yet here you are taking a quote that HE are above black Nomu to mean they're superior in all stats. If they well and truly are then parts of the story make no sense as Endeavor should've been able to beat AFO and Shigaraki 1v1.

If you concede Endeavor beats AFO then you're just showing yourself to be ridiculous. The story still exists and Endeavor got smacked aside by AFO and couldn't jump in again until the battle was over. The scale you're proposing puts Endeavor in the same level as AM.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Endeavor doesn't have a quirk that buffs his durability. AM does. This is like Kirishima vs Deku. One can take cutting and piercing hits while the other can't.

Endeavor was weakened by his flashfire moves. Remember what I said about reading my posts? This is it. It has been brought up by Shouto and Endeavor that extreme heat weakens physical functions.

Taking hits doesn't mean tanking. That wasn't what I said. Taking a hit to me just means you got hit but kept going. If you wanna pull out a dictionary on me and prove me wrong sure I'll alter my wording I guess.

Nomu is stated as AM's equal by several people. One of whom is the entire crux of the Nomu scaling.

Yeah and if AM lost part of his face from a whiffed hit, a full punch should hurt more. Kindly stop putting words in my mouth and assuming my thoughts. My argument is based on the story implications. Endeavor shouldn't be rivalling AM and taking on people stronger than him when he gets smacked aside by AFO and needs a whole team to take on quirkless Shigaraki. The HE Nomu never have a statement from Endeavor that they're equal to AM yet here you are taking a quote that HE are above black Nomu to mean they're superior in all stats. If they well and truly are then parts of the story make no sense as Endeavor should've been able to beat AFO and Shigaraki 1v1.

If you concede Endeavor beats AFO then you're just showing yourself to be ridiculous. The story still exists and Endeavor got smacked aside by AFO and couldn't jump in again until the battle was over. The scale you're proposing puts Endeavor in the same level as AM.

Except Deku actually does blatantly punch through Rivet Stab and isn’t stabbed so he can block piercing attacks.

Flashfire moves have no bearing on his durability though? And even then, now we’re just arguing stamina not durability.

That is my own fault, I misread taking for tanking.

Except Nomu’s best showings are against past his time limit All Might while also getting a super hard assist from Kurogiri to hit his weak spot.

Except a full punch didn’t do more, it just bruised him. Getting grazed by a hit makes you bleed, that’s a thing that occurs in real life, so there is no contradiction here. Mirko would not have withstood a direct punch like AM did.

Story implications are that Endeavor absolutely could have killed AFO at Kamino since he wasn’t going all out in the slightest and can kill other opponents with Super Regeneration. Story says HE’s are superior to all Upper Tier Nomu, with USJ Nomu as the representation, and Endeavor can kill them. Story says Shigaraki is a perfect version of USJ Nomu and is as close to as strong as All Might as can be. Story says Endeavor can kill Shigaraki with any direct Prominence Burn or Flashfire. Story says Endeavor cannot resist being stabbed by Shigaraki while Deku, who is stronger, can. Where does the story ever imply that Endeavor can’t stand among weakened AM? When he was blown away by AFO blasting the ground with an Air Cannon? Is that supposed to be an anti feat when he wasn’t even using Flashfire the entire encounter with AFO? Or hadn’t even shown he could pseudo-fly?

You are confusing what Endeavor is claiming about not surpassing All Might as Number One, as the symbol of Peace, with where they stand in power currently. Prime All Might stomps everyone. Weakened AM does not, but still carries the mantle and prestige of Prime All Might. Endeavor being able to surpass him is not out of the question nor implied to be impossible for where AM was at the time. Instead, the story keeps setting up threats on All Might’s level to be defeated by the heroes. AM’s level, vs USJ Nomu, was set up to be surpassed or met by the heroes when Garaki states the High Ends are literally better versions of Upper Tiers, which is what the USJ Nomu is, and is the direct example to show what they are above.

Story does not claim what you’re saying. Endeavor needed a team to beat Shigaraki who was a perfected USJ Nomu, who he then proceeded to take hits from and harm. So the story has just set up that he is comparable to whatever level of All Might that Shigaraki is at, if not somewhat inferior durability wise considering he gets beat up. That is consistent with his showings vs Hood, who is above USJ Nomu, where he gets beat up even easier with a couple hits while overheating even faster. Where is there a contradiction? He gets beat up whether they’re stronger than USJ Nomu or not, where is the issue? Is something gatekeeping him from weakened All Might’s level?

 

[AtomicSekiro]

No one has stated that anyone is Prime All Might tier.

However, the series makes it clear that All Might on the absolute last dregs of his power is still >>>>>>>> literally any other being in the verse besides All For One and MAYBE Gigantomachia.

And since USJ Nomu, an upper tier, is apparently lower than a High End in stats, means Mirko, who killed several High Ends, is above USJ All Might who is >>>> Kamino All Might who is >>>>>>>>>> literally everyone else, even Endeavour.

If you disagree, provide an explanation for why Endeavour did not just fight in All Might’s place after he weakened All For One a little bit. This part of this site is wonky. You allow one-time outlier movie feats as 100% perfect scaling but do not do the same for anime feats when the movie feats are WAY more outlier than the anime ever is. What gives?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

No one has stated that anyone is Prime All Might tier.

However, the series makes it clear that All Might on the absolute last dregs of his power is still >>>>>>>> literally any other being in the verse besides All For One and MAYBE Gigantomachia.

And since USJ Nomu, an upper tier, is apparently lower than a High End in stats, means Mirko, who killed several High Ends, is above USJ All Might who is >>>> Kamino All Might who is >>>>>>>>>> literally everyone else, even Endeavour.

If you disagree, provide an explanation for why Endeavour did not just fight in All Might’s place after he weakened All For One a little bit. This part of this site is wonky. You allow one-time outlier movie feats as 100% perfect scaling but do not do the same for anime feats when the movie feats are WAY more outlier than the anime ever is. What gives?

When had the series ever established THAT? USJ All Might above everyone else? When was that stated or shown? Everytime anyone refers to All Might, they refer to his Prime, not his weakened state that showed up vs AFO. Can I get a statement or showing of what you’re claiming?

You’re severely over exaggerating the strength drop All Might is having. Just from what we see we know he isn’t having strength drops as vast as he did when he first gave One For All away. He lowers from 3 hours to only 1 hour, then stays using his power for an extended period of time to keep up appearances before the raid even happens at Kamino. You’re imagining a scaling chain that never existed or a far more drastic drop off in strength.

Because he did try to fight in his place? He didn’t use his flashfire or flight, but he did fight AFO, and was blown away when he shot an air cannon at the ground that blew away the terrain. Endeavor came in at the last moment before All Might and AFO clashed, and he was suffering from the realization that All Might, the person he could never beat, was in such a state. They all wanted ALL MIGHT to win, not him. Even he wanted All Might to finish the fight. You’re ignoring the context of that scene to say that Endeavor should’ve done it all as if he wasn’t going through a mental crisis at the time and wasn’t also rooting for All Might to win and not be as weak as he seemed.

The issue isn’t that we accept Movie feats, it’s that there are people that misconstrue what is happening in the manga to disavow everything else that’s happening because they are creating barriers and scaling chains that don’t exist or are directly disproved. USJ Nomu is supposed to be the pinnacle of strength enhancement and the only true All Might tier Nomu, yet the doctor only cares to retrieve it and isn’t shocked at all that it lost? Instead just whining that he went to the effort for it? When he’s been working on Hood for possibly way longer?

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Heck, All Might could only function for three hours a day 10 MONTHS AGO, THEN gave One For All away, THEN lost power from fighting Nomu, and then had an hour left. Where is this massive strength drop from USJ to Kamino coming from?

 

[AtomicSekiro]

All Might being above Endeavour and having such a blistering large gap is the entire point of Endeavour’s arc. It’s the reason for Todoroki. It’s the reason for half the series. You’d think if, even if they suddenly caught up to him at his weakest, like this site is claiming with its broken scaling logic, they’d say SOMETHING about it in the series.

Endeavour is a stone, All Might at his weakest is a building.

USJ Nomu is still the strongest one, Aizawa even calls it “a perfected Nomu” when he flashes back to it. High Ends are more valuable since they are better; as in, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE INTELLIGENCE, every other nomu is literally a walking corpse capable of handling simple commands.

And the way this site treats High Ends, Mirko = Endeavour > a High End as she killed multiple > All Might and AFO > USJ Nomu = or > Upper Tier Nomus.

 

[Earthyboy]

Does Mirko even scale to the High-Ends? After looking at the fight, she always targets their brains, normally killing a Nomu. Everyone knows that targeting a Nomu's brain is like a one-way ticket to one-shotting them. Someone explain this to me.

 

[Damage3245]

Does Mirko even scale to the High-Ends? After looking at the fight, she always targets their brains, normally killing a Nomu. Everyone knows that targeting a Nomu's brain is like a one-way ticket to one-shotting them. Someone explain this to me.

She ripped one of their heads off with her thighs.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Mirko was able to completly tear one’s head off with her legs, did not get blitzed and could take a hit. So she does scale. She also kicked Woman’s fingers off in the same kick that took off one’s head (Edit: well, not one’s head, on further inspection she kicked through Woman’s fingers and then obliterated one’s hand which happens to have a mouth instead of a normal hand, with fingers attached)

Destroying the brain makes them easier to kill as they can’t use their quirks, since they are emitter based quirks, which aren’t passive.

 

[Earthyboy]

That's fair.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

All Might being above Endeavour and having such a blistering large gap is the entire point of Endeavour’s arc. It’s the reason for Todoroki. It’s the reason for half the series. You’d think if, even if they suddenly caught up to him at his weakest, like this site is claiming with its broken scaling logic, they’d say SOMETHING about it in the series.

Endeavour is a stone, All Might at his weakest is a building.

USJ Nomu is still the strongest one, Aizawa even calls it “a perfected Nomu” when he flashes back to it. High Ends are more valuable since they are better; as in, THEY ACTUALLY HAVE INTELLIGENCE, every other nomu is literally a walking corpse capable of handling simple commands.

And the way this site treats High Ends, Mirko = Endeavour > a High End as she killed multiple > All Might and AFO > USJ Nomu = or > Upper Tier Nomus.

Except that gap has been PRIME All Might, NOT weakened post losing One For All. And no one has claimed anything about weakened AM’s strength at all in the series other than just being way weaker, why would we need such a specific statement to note that Endeavir can reach weakened AM’s strength? That’s not a break in logic or changes anything in the series. He did the decisions he did because he could never surpass All Might in his prime.

No, he calls Shigaraki a perfected Nomu. He compares him to USJ Nomu to directly call him better, at the least in function. How did you take away USJ Nomu being perfected when he was talking about Shigaraki in that scene? And even if USJ Nomu was perfect for an upper tier, that doesn’t change the doctors statement that High Ends are better. USJ Nomu is not the strongest one by the doctors statement which is above your personal beliefs of it being an outlier. It is not intelligence or quirks, but directly stats. Even on the panel, it says the Nomu are differed by number of quirks and physical prowess. High Ends are stronger.

I’m still failing to see an actual argument against why Mirko and Endeavor can be comparable if not stronger than Kamino AFO and AM. You’re just arguing that they can’t be that strong because no one could reach Prime AM’s power, as if being severely weakened has put him at their level and not the other way around.

 

[Earthyboy]

I’m still failing to see an actual argument against why Mirko and Endeavor can be comparable if not stronger than Kamino AFO and AM. You’re just arguing that they can’t be that strong because no one could reach Prime AM’s power, as if being severely weakened has put him at their level and not the other way around.

In a technical sense, Mirko wouldn't even last that long against All Might. She wouldn't be much of a challenge most likely. She'd get a few good licks in, but that probably wouldn't be enough to faze All Might. Endeavor, for the most part, can deal significant damage to All Might, but only if he somehow catches him off-guard or uses some of his strongest moves, as All Might's reaction time would technically be a few leagues above Endeavour's.

Still, they should at least be within the range of Low 7-B, at least regarding their AP. I don't see the problem scaling them like that. Further denial of this would just be Ad Nauseum.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Oh, so Endeavour was stronger than All Might at the start of the series, even when he clearly never is even remotely close.

I never brought up Prime All Might. You did.

”Shigaraki is like a perfected Nomu” Aizawa thinks, flashing back to USJ Nomu, who is perfect in strength and speed as he’s literally the only All Might tier Nomu. High Ends are ONLY better in intelligence and other stats like number of quirks, not strength and speed. All High Ends are specced in different ways. They’re not all “All Might tier”, for instance, Elephant is specifically said to spec into pure strength/power. Likewise, USJ Nomu is the only one stated to be specced specifically to handle All Might, unlike any other Nomu, ever, in the series.

The characters themselves treat All Might as being on this absolutely upper tier of unreachable prowess even when he’s in his weakest state, yet you’re saying Mirko is stronger than him, faster than him, capable of one shotting him. Makes sense.

By the actual series‘ logic: Prime All Might >>>>> All Might at USJ > Kamino All Might >>>>>> the closest hero to his level > everyone else.

By your logic:

Prime All Migjt >>>> Current Shigaraki > Mirko > Endeavour > A High End >>> USJ Nomu = All Might = Current Shigaraki again because “he’s as strong and sturdy as All Might” and High Ends are stronger than All Might according to this site.

 

[Gitagon]

She scales considering her AP is > their durability unless they use quirks like the bone armor.

If it had been 1v1 and not 5v1, I don't see how any of the hospital High-ends would have stood a chance.

As for the cancelling out the force, it was actually kicking backwards so she still ate that hit to the face fully, she just didn't get tossed as far as she would have. If she didn't do that, she would have probably gone through the wall and maybe all the way to outside the hospital.

 

[Therefir]

In a technical sense, Mirko wouldn't even last that long against All Might. She wouldn't be much of a challenge most likely. She'd get a few good licks in, but that probably wouldn't be enough to faze All Might. Endeavor, for the most part, can deal significant damage to All Might, but only if he somehow catches him off-guard or uses some of his strongest moves, as All Might's reaction time would technically be a few leagues above Endeavour's.

Still, they should at least be within the range of Low 7-B, at least regarding their AP. I don't see the problem scaling them like that. Further denial of this would just be Ad Nauseum.

I agree with this, further discussion is just pointless as Hood has feats supporting his ratings (Able to injure Endeavor, who can take hits from All For One Shigaraki), with Mirko being confident in fighting Hood, and Endeavor failing to one-shot the Hospital High-Ends without outside help.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Yes. Mirko straight up face tanked a High End attack to the face and did not die. This puts her in USJ All Might tier if not above according to this site, if not able to one shot him.

But hang on, Shigaraki was stated to be “as strong and sturdy as All Might”, so clearly Mirko can one shot him too. Or maybe basing the strength of all High Ends above an outlier specifically made to counter the strongest hero is a bad idea. High Ends are only better due to intelligence and better quirks and being able to use their quirks better.

Right now, the logic of the scale makes no sense based off this.

Mirko > Shigaraki > High Ends > Endeavour > USJ Nomu = All Might = Shigaraki again?

 

[Therefir]

Yes. Mirko straight up face tanked a High End attack to the face and did not die. This puts her in USJ All Might tier if not above according to this site, if not able to one shot him.

No it doesn't, even in real life, you wouldn't be able to survive dozens, if not hundreds, of punches from someone comparable to you, but All Might did.

If Mirko were subjected to the same punishment, she would die, judging by how much damage she received from a single attack.

So stop trying to push this narrative of Mirko being superior to All Might, because she is not.

 

[Gitagon]

I'll say the issues I've noticed with Nomu scaling is:

1. Scaling any Nomu to or above USJ just because of that one picture. Personally I think USJ Nomu was used in that cause of his recognizability as a black Nomu.
There are already more than 2 statements thah show he is superior and an outlier.

• A. His comparison to All Might as the anti-All Might. At that point Ujiko and AFO weren't even sure All Might passed down OFA.
• B. Aizawa himself compares him to All Might at USJ. Even after being amidst High-ends in the Hospital raid, he still doesn't make any such observation about them.
• C. Again Aizawa flashes back to USJ Nomu when seeing perfected Nomu Shigaraki. He doesn't think about guys like Hood or the Hospital High-ends.
• D. Mirio compares the Near High-ends to Hood, arguably the strongest High-end. Even if Bakugo and Iida didn't win, they went toe to toe with N.H.Es. in fact Iida fought 2 at the same time. So you guys think current Bakugo and Iida can go toe to toe with USJ All Might? Since Bakugo is about 30 - 45% Deku and Iida might be even weaker, does this mean 30 - 45% Deku > USJ All Might. Then how come 100% Deku and All Might were relative in Two Heroes several months after USJ.

2. Completely ignoring quirks when it comes to Nomu and only considering physical stats.
Even if I have a gun to my head I will maintain forever that Hood >>>>>>>>>>>>Helmet same way Shigaraki >>>>>>>>Thirteen.
Now can 13 hurt Shiggy with Black Hole? Yes, it's sort of hax, however in terms of physicals no one would put them in the same tier yet this happens with the Nomus.
Hood has 3 or 4 physical enhancement quirks while Helmet has only long range quirks. Even if their base stats are the same, things should be way different after Hood activates his quirks.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

USJ Nomu equaled All Might in strength. USJ Nomu held him in place with such force he literally couldn’t move or break free and required HELP. All Might did not tank 300 punches; he was meeting USJ Nomu’s blows punch to punch, cancelling out the force and overwhelming him slightly each time until he hit his limit. The attacks that DID get through clesrly hurt; one /grazed/ his face and took a chip out of him.

And, as this site says, High Ends > USJ Nomu.

And Mirko can one shot High Ends if she lands a hit.

So Mirko > Shigaraki > High Ends > USJ Nomu = All Might = Shigaraki again.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Oh, so Endeavour was stronger than All Might at the start of the series, even when he clearly never is even remotely close.

I never brought up Prime All Might. You did.

”Shigaraki is like a perfected Nomu” Aizawa thinks, flashing back to USJ Nomu, who is perfect in strength and speed as he’s literally the only All Might tier Nomu. High Ends are ONLY better in intelligence and other stats like number of quirks, not strength and speed. All High Ends are specced in different ways. They’re not all “All Might tier”, for instance, Elephant is specifically said to spec into pure strength/power. Likewise, USJ Nomu is the only one stated to be speccues specifically to handle All Might, unlike any other Nomu, ever, in the series.

The characters themselves treat All Might as being on this absolutely upper tier of unreachable prowess even when he’s in his weakest state, yet you’re saying Mirko is stronger than him, faster than him, capable of one shotting him. Makes sense.

By the actual series‘ logic: Prime All Might >>>>> All Might at USJ > Kamino All Might >>>>>> the closest hero to his level > everyone else.

By your logic:

Prime All Migjt >>>> Shigaraki > Mirko > Endeavour > A High End >>> USJ Nomu = All Might.

USJ All Might is not Start of Series All Might. The entirety of this argument is USJ All Might/Kamino All Might, which is AFYER he gave One For All away and massively dipped in power. No one is as strong as him at start of series.

I bring up Prime All Might because that’s the All Might Endeavor compares himself to, not weakened or even wounded. So your argument that he can’t be as strong because of his actions is null because those actions weren’t caused by the All Might we’re talking about.

Aizawa flashed to USJ Nomu because he’s using it as reference for how an actual perfect Nomu is, which would be Shigaraki. Also, let’s not ignore the context of this scene. Aizawa is calling Shigaraki “like a perfected Nomu” because his strength didn’t go down when he hit him with Erasure. That means he is shocked that Shigaraki is as strong as he is without extra quirks, similar to USJ Nomu. That does nothing to discredit that the High Ends would be the exact same.

Oh, also, he flashbacks to a hospital High send grabbing his leg when he mentions perfected Nomu. So they’re perfect too.

That scale is wrong, because your logic of USJ/Kamino AM being stronger is flawed. You have given no legitimate reason he should be above anyone.

Mirko and Endeavor are stronger than High Ends in AP only, their durability is not higher. Other than that, yes, that is the scale, is there a problem?

Yes. Mirko straight up face tanked a High End attack to the face and did not die. This puts her in USJ All Might tier if not above according to this site, if not able to one shot him.

But hang on, Shigaraki was stated to be “as strong and sturdy as All Might”, so clearly Mirko can one shot him too. Or maybe basing the strength of all High Ends above an outlier specifically made to counter the strongest hero is a bad idea. High Ends are only better due to intelligence and better quirks and being able to use their quirks better.

Right now, the logic of the scale makes no sense based off this.

Mirko > Shigaraki > High Ends > Endeavour > USJ Nomu = All Might = Shigaraki again?

How are you getting Shigaraki back equal to USJ All Might? Because of the statement that he’s near All Might from the doctor? Do you even know which AM he’s even supposed to be approaching in terms of strength? Heck, at this point any claims of AM tier strength are suspect because we don’t even know what they’re talking about when it comes to AM strength. Are they referring to prime? Are they referring to Kamino? USJ? Start of Series? The statement of “as strong as All Might” in itself is becoming worthless because there is no concrete version of All Might anyone could be talking about. So getting hung up on Endeavor calling Shigaraki as strong as All Might is ridiculous because you don’t even know what All Might he’s comparing him to.

 

[Therefir]

USJ Nomu equaled All Might in strength. USJ Nomu held him in place with such force he literally couldn’t move or break free and required HELP. All Might did not tank 300 punches; he was meeting USJ Nomu’s blows punch to punch, cancelling out the force and overwhelming him slightly each time until he hit his limit. The attacks that DID get through clesrly hurt; one /grazed/ his face and took a chip out of him.

No, that isn't how physics work, you can't "cancel" the force of a punch like that, if your punch meets another one with the same strength, you would probably break your fingers.

So this is actually a feat supporting All Might.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Considering USJ Nomu would be absorbing most of the force? Not really.

Regardless. Mirko > one shots High Ends > USJ Nomu who can hold All Might in place, making him his equal = All Might who is = to Kamino All For One who’s clearly above every other hero unless you want to say Endeavour could easily handle him, or Mirko.

Again, it makes no sense, because it’s all based on this “High Ends are at base stronger than USJ Nomu” broken logic.

 

[Mageman460]

Ah yes, the USJ Nomu that could hold All Might in place by tightly gripping his weak point. And even still the plan wasn't to just let the Nomu deal with All Might, it was to have him hold him and place and then cut All Might in half with Kurogiri. Nomu is not All Might's equal. He is somewhat comparable, but not equal. It helps that the High Ends have more than just the USJ Nomu statement to scale to. Endeavor vs Shigaraki and Endeavor vs Hood. Hood damaged Endeavor, other High Ends should be comparable to Hood. Endeavor could take hits from Shigaraki. Shigaraki is stated to be somewhat comparable to All Might. That's what the scaling chain should focus on.

 

[Gitagon]

Here it happens again. Apparently Woman and Helmet should have comparable strength to Hood despite having zero strength enhancers while Hood is packed choke-full of them.

Please please separate the Nomus base stats which are uniform to their states with Quirks activated which vary widely based on the type and power of the quirks they posses.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Deku in the latest chapter had a pretty decent speed feat of intercepting and catching a close range bullet with the help of danger sense. The impact from the second bullet that strikes his midgauntlet after the first catch sent him flying a good 3 metres or so back.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

I also still think it’s a little wonky to assume all Nomu are the same strength when the series states multiple times that they are all spec’d into different roles, like skill trees. They are not all USJ Tier. Some are way weaker but maybe faster, maybe they can regen faster, maybe they’re better thinkers, maybe they have better slicing attacks or just martial arts, etc etc.

Like Woman. She is clearly more intelligent than the rest, making her stats better. She was still held in place by Ryuku and a few other heroes and then one punched by Endeavour but it’s silly to assume that makes Ryuku comparable in strength to USJ All Might due to that.

 

[Metalballrun]

I also still think it’s a little wonky to assume all Nomu are the same strength when the series states multiple times that they are all spec’d into different roles, like skill trees. They are not all USJ Tier. Some are way weaker but maybe faster, maybe they can regen faster, maybe they’re better thinkers, maybe they have better slicing attacks or just martial arts, etc etc.

Citation?

Also, IIRC it's not that they all literally have the same stat. But they have the same or similar base stats. What differentiates the High-Ends are their quirks and personalities. Big Chungus Nomu was obviously tougher and more durable than the rest, but that was because of his quirk.
Their regen is probably the same if it's just the same copied mass-produced quirks.

 

[Gitagon]

Yep, they each have their own specializations. And also considering how widely quirks vary, the Nomus stats past quirk activation would be way too different. Just considering the quirks we have seen in the series, if one Nomu has Black Hole and the other has Muscle Augmentation or Vibrate, they could be considered just as strong as each other as all these 3 are powerful quirks.

However no one would argue Shindo has Muscular level of stats especially in speed and defence even though Shindo can damage Muscular and is the main reason the latter lost to Deku in one punch.

Even in UA alone, if a Nomu has Kirishima's quirk or Jurota Shishido's quirk and another has Iida's, they might be considered comparable but obviously the stats being boosted are different: defence vs strength vs speed.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Except the quirks added on to them don’t matter for the argument, because they, at a baseline, are the same strength. Which is higher than USJ Nomu.

 

[Gitagon]

God not this USJ Nomu stuff again

 

[Kingofwolves999]

God not this USJ Nomu stuff again

That’s literally the entire discussion right now, wdym again

 

[Gitagon]

That’s literally the entire discussion right now, wdym again

We were talking about the High-ends and how they are scaled to each other despite how varied their quirks are. I already made my peace with the USJ issue with my over 200 word post ages ago.

 

[Gitagon]

Deku in the latest chapter had a pretty decent speed feat of intercepting and catching a close range bullet with the help of danger sense. The impact from the second bullet that strikes his midgauntlet after the first catch sent him flying a good 3 metres or so back.

I think it's important to note that the gun isn't an ordinary existing gun and the bullets are her own hair. So it's possible it might even be faster. But yeah all in all, he did react to her bullets.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

Where is the proof that ANY High End is spec’d to be USJ Nomu level at baseline muscle strength instead of being USJ Nomu level through numerous whacky ass quirks like blackhole-telekinesis, piercing muscle tendrils, thighs that fire off high speed acid, laser beams from the eyes, etc etc?

We only see 1 High End ever throw a punch that generates air pressure and that was against Mirio who could phase through the attack. All the other Nomus were being stalemated or downright killed by lesser heroes who are nowhere close to people like Mirko or Endeavour.

I guess a team of Native, Snipe, X-Less, Mirio and Kamui Woods would be able to defeat USJ Nomu with the same if not less difficulty than All Might himself who is repeatedly treated as being so far above any and all other beings in the verse even when he’s not in his prime.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

I think it's important to note that the gun isn't an ordinary existing gun and the bullets are her own hair. So it's possible it might even be faster. But yeah all in all, he did react to her bullets.

True. Even if it’s just baseline “sniper rifle speed” that makes it the first true proper bullet timing feat after the bullet was fired that didn’t rely on aim dodging or prediction, to my knowledge.

Danger Sense warned Deku, he the bullet rounded the corner and Deku’s arm was outstretched to his left. Before the bullet hit him he managed to move his arm in the way and caught it, sending him flying through the air with the impact. Then the second shot broke his midgauntlet.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Where is the proof that ANY High End is spec’d to be USJ Nomu level at baseline muscle strength instead of being USJ Nomu level through numerous whacky ass quirks like blackhole-telekinesis, piercing muscle tendrils, thighs that fire off high speed acid, laser beams from the eyes, etc etc?

We only see 1 High End ever throw a punch that generates air pressure and that was against Mirio who could phase through the attack. All the other Nomus were being stalemated or downright killed by lesser heroes who are nowhere close to people like Mirko or Endeavour.

I guess a team of Native, Snipe, X-Less, Mirio and Kamui Woods would be able to defeat USJ Nomu with the same if not less difficulty than All Might himself who is repeatedly treated as being so far above any and all other beings in the verse even when he’s not in his prime.

Hundreds of heroes with tons of different quirks being able to take down brainless NHE’s while getting slaughtered in droves doing so does not give them the ability to scale. Also, neither of the 3 you just listed scale anyway, you’re conflating your point again.

Aizawa compares the USJ Nomu and the High Ends to Shigaraki, calling them perfected Nomu. The Doctor says High Ends are higher in stats, and that Nomu’s are separated into tiers based on Quirks and Stats. So yeah, there is proof that High Ends are as strong if not stronger than USJ Nomu at a base level, similar to how he is strong at a base level. What evidence do you have that suggests the opposite?

 

[Gitagon]

A lot of the scaling goes against Author intent.

This is All Might's casual Power



No Wind Manipulation bullshit like some people love to claim. Pure physical strength. This is how All Might tier is presented. Anyone else who's punching without even scratching this level is not All Might tier.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

A lot of the scaling goes against Author intent.

This is All Might's casual Power



No Wind Manipulation bullshit like some people love to claim. Pure physical strength. This is how All Might tier is presented. Anyone else who's punching without even scratching this level is not All Might tier.

AoE fallacy. You don’t have to replicate this feat to be able to harm or take hits from All Might. There’s a difference between destructive capability and Attack Potency for a reason.

 

[AtomicSekiro]

The fact that multiple heroes aren’t being speedblitzed and one shot by multiple High Ends proves the opposite. Burnin’, Native, Mirio, Bakugo. They’re all comparable to these High Ends. None of these characters are comparable to All Might at his weakest. The story makes this abundantly clear.

USJ Nomu was spec’d into being Anti-All Might with sheer strength, regen and shock absorption at the cost of having zero intelligence.

High Ends are spec’d into being intelligent Nomus with very good quirks and can act independently with zero orders.

There is only 1 High End, ever, showing a strength feat that’s even comparable to 45% Deku. You can say “AOE and AP fallacy” but the story itself makes it clear that One For All strength is in another tier as it’s the only thing that can make such massive wind pressure with brute force alone. You can’t just ignore the series‘ rules and logic. If you can make massive city wide air blasts, you’re All Might level. If you can’t, you’re not All Might level in strength or durability, but you may be able to do other weird things like acid or TK or metal manip.