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Logia Regen Downgrade
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
- 21,124
- 30,076
- Thread starter
- #82
Alright.
This thread can be closed.
This thread can be closed.
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Okay. Will do.
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I thought marco didn’t get an upgrade because we don’t know if he is fully made of fire or just surrounded by it. But we know for sure that logias are entirely made by their elements.
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I think the problem relies on elemental intangibility itself, as it's pretty common to have its users lose parts of their element and spontaneously reform it.
Even going outside of One Piece, some characters who can reform their element don't have regen (Juvia (water) or Mora (glue)), while others have it like Sandman. (these are the first examples that came into my mind). I think we should revise the idea of elemental intangibility itself, maybe rewording the page or something to mention the possible levels of natural regeneration.
Also, another concern I have with haki is that it targets the real body of logia users, but what about characters that are naturally made of their element, and thus don't have any real body to hit? Do we treat haki as able to hit even them?
About Marco, I'm believe he can reform his body by generating "healing flames", and I'm iffy on him being totally made of fire, as he would be totally intangible as a logia (I know there are shenanigans like Smoker's arms being able to grab others). This may also be true, but we still not know enough about his physiology.
I'm also skeptical on regen neg just because the only evidence isn't that strong, even though it technically makes sense.
Even going outside of One Piece, some characters who can reform their element don't have regen (Juvia (water) or Mora (glue)), while others have it like Sandman. (these are the first examples that came into my mind). I think we should revise the idea of elemental intangibility itself, maybe rewording the page or something to mention the possible levels of natural regeneration.
Also, another concern I have with haki is that it targets the real body of logia users, but what about characters that are naturally made of their element, and thus don't have any real body to hit? Do we treat haki as able to hit even them?
About Marco, I'm believe he can reform his body by generating "healing flames", and I'm iffy on him being totally made of fire, as he would be totally intangible as a logia (I know there are shenanigans like Smoker's arms being able to grab others). This may also be true, but we still not know enough about his physiology.
I'm also skeptical on regen neg just because the only evidence isn't that strong, even though it technically makes sense.
- 29,757
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We have an example of that in the verse.
Prometheus is living fire with no solid body, and Haki can't hit him / damage him.
Haki doesn't negate elemental intangibility, it just allows the user to bypass it. So if you bypass it and there's nothing to hit, then no damage is done.
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Right, I even remember the scene but I still forgot about it.
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Makes sense.
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@SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Andytrenom @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura
I would still appreciate your help with evaluating how we should properly rate the regeneration levels for the One Piece logia characters with eleental intangibility.
I would still appreciate your help with evaluating how we should properly rate the regeneration levels for the One Piece logia characters with eleental intangibility.
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@Antvasima; part of me thinks that we may need to revise how we treat elemental intangibility and whether reforming yourself through it counts as "regeneration" for our standards.
If we look at our definition strictly:
Damage done to elemental intangibility shouldn't be treated as "wounds". They're not healing themselves, they're just reforming themselves.
If we look at our definition strictly:
Damage done to elemental intangibility shouldn't be treated as "wounds". They're not healing themselves, they're just reforming themselves.
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We either reword Elemental Intangibility to include reforming or we give everyone regen in their transformed state.
- 21,124
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- Thread starter
- #94
Are there instances of characters with elemental intangibility who aren't able to reform their elements?
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The word “regeneration” is used in the description of Elemental intangibility.
- 29,757
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Well, that's not quite what I'm saying.
I'm saying if users of elemental intangibility are shown transforming into their element to actually regenerate themselves (say if Sandman had a cut on his cheek, then he turned into sand and the cut faded away back to normal) then that would count as regeneration.
But just being shattered into ice cubes like Aokiji and reforming does not count as regeneration.
And since Logia users can sustain permanent injuries and can't regenerate them, then they shouldn't have regeneration. Same with any similar users of elemental intangibility from other verses.
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- Thread starter
- #98
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Just a heads-up, reforming is not the epitome of what a logia can do. Just like how they are able to rearrange their elements, they are able to generate their elements again to replace the parts that may have been destroyed when they are in logia form as well.
their regeneration are so high in their profiles because they are homogenous when transformed, without any part of their form being more important than the other. There is no such a thing as organs or blood, they are 100% natural light, fire, or ice.
their regeneration are so high in their profiles because they are homogenous when transformed, without any part of their form being more important than the other. There is no such a thing as organs or blood, they are 100% natural light, fire, or ice.
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This also means that losing a toe is not more or less threatening than losing 99% of their body.
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Aokiji can't just regrow his leg though. He still has a permanent inury from his battle with Akainu and has to generate an ice prosthesis to make up for it.
That might be an art inconsistency, like how bruises can vanish from one moment to the next in One Piece.
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When they are in logia form, meaning when their true bodies aren’t hit
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I know. I'm saying I don't think we should count that as regeneration.
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Their profiles says that only their logia form have regeneration, not their true self.
Let me give an example:
Aokiji has technically 2 bodies, one made of flesh like us (where he can’t regenerate), and one made of 100% of ice where he is basically a homogeneous creature. As long as there is ice he is there somewhere. He doesn’t have a brain, heart, or blood, he is just ice. Meaning that his entire torso or head is as important as his legs or any other part of his body.
- 21,124
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- Thread starter
- #105
This wasn't canon. When we saw him against Doffy it wasn't shown like this.
I agree, but this specific fight does show a lot of consistency with bruises. Please note, I'm not counting your point out, because that's much more likely than what I'm about to put.
Zoro cuts Monet, cut is on the next page, and it pops up on the next page.
Monet bites into Tashigi, cut is on the next page, and it pops up on the next page, still here. Next chapter too.
Tashigi gets hurt a bunch of times and the wounds are still on her face.
I'd take it into consideration that a wound that important (hurting her with Haki) wouldn't be forgotten since every other would was remembered.
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That’s why scaling a logia’s elemental regeneration to whatever they displayed to be able to regenerate makes no sense to me.
As an example:
“Okay Smoker’s highest feat is that he survived getting his head blown off, so he should have mid regeneration right?” WRONG! his head is just smoke, there is no brain there to justify him dying, that was as critical to his health as if he lost his pinky finger cause it’s all the same to him.
It’s much more realible and logical if we just scale their elemental regeneration to their elements, because when transformed they are 100% their elements after all.
The only difference between Smoker and Ace to Zeus and Prometheus is that smoker and ace have a true human body behind their logia powers meaning that their weakness is haki, while haki will do nothing to the a cloud or a fireball with no true biology behind it. That’s it.
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- Thread starter
- #108
She's weird.
Not gonna lie, I don't see any canonically permanent bruises on logias.
Rayleigh cut Kizaru on his cheek and we don't ever see the wound again.
Still advocating for regen for logias.
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Or maybe we should just differentiate biological regeneration and elemental regeneration.
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- Thread starter
- #111
I meant to add with Haki*
static.wikia.nocookie.net links don't work on the wiki, but I just checked the wiki directly, and I see what you mean.
Maybe it's different with counters of abilities than with Haki, cause Ace got burnt by Akainu and had wounds, but Kizaru and Monet get cut left and right and nothing happens.
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One Piece characters, aside from whatever abilities they have, do tend to be superhuman endurance and recovery. Luffy being the biggest and best example of that.
The cut on Kizaru looked so shallow that I could believe he simply he healed up naturally before the war.
The Monet one I'm more willing to put down to art inconsistency, since her last moments talking to Doflamingo she did seem to be a bit battered / bloody still.
The cut on Kizaru looked so shallow that I could believe he simply he healed up naturally before the war.
The Monet one I'm more willing to put down to art inconsistency, since her last moments talking to Doflamingo she did seem to be a bit battered / bloody still.
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- Thread starter
- #113
Zoro got chopped in his chest and went through half of pre timeskip with wounds. I understand endurance and recovery, but wounds don't go away (the X on his chest).
Agreed with the Kizaru one.
I partially disagree, in her last moments she was half dead. She definitely didn't have the stamina to do it, she was stated to not even be able to control her logia form.
But if others agree with art inconsistency, I'll lay it off
Agreed with the Kizaru one.
I partially disagree, in her last moments she was half dead. She definitely didn't have the stamina to do it, she was stated to not even be able to control her logia form.
But if others agree with art inconsistency, I'll lay it off
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Weren't we talking about regen null a moment ago? And now we have a logia who can regen from haki? It may be because i am a busy IRL, but i am the only one that isn't seeing any consistency here anymore?
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- Thread starter
- #115
My argument was a theory. With this, we can shut that theory down.
I never said it wasn't art inconsistency, just said it's possible because of that one instance.
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By the way, Marco should have a phoenix form tab added to his profile no?
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We don't have a key to Luffy's gears.
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- Thread starter
- #118
I'm almost a billion percent sure we do
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I think he meant a Phoenix image for Marco's profile.
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Anyway, I'm heading offline for now but to help get resolution on this I will make a CRT to discuss whether we should revise our pages for intangibility & regeneration.
