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Chaos Force Low 1-C Upgrade?

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How exactly is what I asked vague? Im asking if these higher dimensions you claim to be are infinitely superior to each other. As in 5-D being infinitely > 4-D and so on.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
How exactly is what I asked vague? Im asking if these higher dimensions you claim to be are infinitely superior to each other. As in 5-D being infinitely > 4-D and so on.
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So, are you looking for wording like “this dimension is infinitely superior to this other dimension“?

Are you looking for that exact wording?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Im not specifically asking for wording, im asking for evidence that proves they're infinitely superior. Whether its wording, context, whatever proves it.
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And that’s what I’m confused about. What does it take for it to be proven to you, if you’re not looking for that exact wording? I’ve already brought up a bunch of stuff on my own that indicate the Chaos Force being superior in existence to the infinite multiverse.
 
Alphaapexnep00 said:
You legit don't need emphasis on infinitely superior.
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Well, you still do for dimensional hierarchies and differences but in the case of a higher plane or seeing a lower being as fiction, you just need to prove the qualitative superiority is as implied.
 
Planck69 said:
Pretty sure a higher plane and being beyond one's comprehension qualifies enough. The emphasis on being infinitely superior is more for dimensional differences, which isn't the case here.
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From what I recall on our standards, it does, since being 5-D wouldn’t mean anything without being proven to be infinitely beyond 4-D.

But I’ll let Ultima clear that up when he comes to this.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
From what I recall on our standards, it does, since being 5-D wouldn’t mean anything without being proven to be infinitely beyond 4-D.

But I’ll let Ultima clear that up when he comes to this.
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Well yeah, you are right about that. Being 5-dimensional without context would need proof that the dimensions are large and non-trivial. On that we agree.

That said, this isn't really dimensions coming into play more so levels of existence. In which case enough confirmation of qualitative superiority, such as being beyond a layer's comprehension and being able to do to a lower realm as you please, would be enough to point to transcendence.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
The word "transcendence" is not enough. Even having words like "layers" indicating some form of hierarchy in dimensions is not enough. It has to infinitely transcend a 4-D Space time in order to qualify. Based on my understanding a space could transcend a 4-D space by "millions of times" and still not qualify. 4.5 D is still not 5-D, etc, etc. From my understanding, if you have 4-D on a number line then the distance to 5-D would be located infinitely farther down the line. Which is why the feat must be described or shown to be on such a level (the most common form being outright statements of the spaces dimensionality or the Reality-Fiction dynamic).
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This... has been debunked over and over that you don't need a verse to be described on such level in order to bypass Tier 2 when it comes with "transcending time and space" as in the context. I can name a lot of verses which don't have said reality-fiction difference or being described as infinitely transcendence but they do in fact rated as Tier 1, our standards are not that strict. Is this seriously the only argument left to oppose the upgrade? Please read the Tiering System FAQ.

Q: What tier is transcending space and time?​

A: As said above, "transcending space and time" is a very vague statement by itself and can mean multiple things depending on the context in which it is made, as well as how this characteristic is portrayed in the first place. It is perfectly possible for such a statement to mean that a character is simply "untied" from the universe's spacetime, and is thus unaffected by alterations in the timeline and similar meddlings. Likewise, it's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space."

However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions. The answer may vary depending on this factor.

It should also be noted that simply existing in some alternate state of existence that lacks time and/or space is not really grounds for any tier in particular, as lacking such things does not translate to being superior to them, and would most often overlap with abilities like Acausality or Nonexistent Physiology. A good example of a case like this is Dormammu (Marvel Cinematic Universe), who is stated to exist in a realm "far beyond time," yet never actually displays any superiority over it, and is in fact vulnerable to time-based abilities due to his timeless nature.
 
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Hey buds, sorry I couldn't respond earlier. Was busy with school, getting work done, etc. I just, hope this all goes well. Anyways, currently neutral.
 
Ned_the_outer_god said:
Sonic solos l0l1s now C:<
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OnsokunoSonic said:
He solos the verse now
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NOOOOOOOOO.jpg

Neutral
 
Beast_Zero_Gudako said:
Why didn't Sonic get solid Low 1-C?
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Cause it would seem weird since Sonic consistent feats is mostly Multiversal+ and the Low Complex rating is because he fought Mammoth Mougal who killed the Ancient Walkers tho I don't think he actually fought Mammoth Mogal when he became one with the Chaos Force (The one that Titan Tails fought) lmao Mogal killing the Ancient Walker is possibly a case of PIS or Outliner and his rewriting should only be via hax, personally think Low Complex Multiversal in range seems fitting imo and that is not from the fact that Archie Super Forms struggled against Master Emerald Mogul who at best can destroy an Infinite Multiverse.

Either possibly or just Low 1-C in range seems better.
 
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Beast_Zero_Gudako said:
Why isn't Sonic getting a solid Low 1-C rating?
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There are 3 scaling to Low 1-C for the Super Forms.

* Master Mogul wounding the Ancient Walkers Post-Master Emerald formation with the last of his power after being released out of it. Pre-Harmony Super Sonic and comparable Super Forms scale below Master Emerald Mogul.

* Chaos Knuckles fighting Turbo Tails. Chaos Knuckles while he was "Alive" was stated to be as strong as the Ancient Walkers, the Turbo Tails that fought Chaos Knuckles was easily defeated by Chaos Knuckles. However, what makes the scaling "Likely" in this case was both Merlin and Athair were certain Turbo Tails could deal with Chaos Knuckles and were surprised when he was getting his ass handed to him. It was revealed after the fight the Turbo Tails that faced Chaos Knuckles was a fake. The real Turbo Tails was used as power source for Mogul to regain his form after losing it by being broken out of the Master Emerald and dealing a fatal blow to the Ancient Walkers. So "Likely" in this case.

* Post-Harmony Super Sonic erasing the Chaos Force. Not only is Ultra Sonic sandwiched between Super Sonic and the Chaos Force, the Chaos Force was the original source of Chaos Energy. It happened, thats unmistakable and unavoidable due to real world lawsuits, but if the story progressed normally, in my opinion, he shouldn't have been able to do that. But he did. Another reason for the "Likely" rating.

Sonic erasing his cosmology has more Low 1-C scaling, but it's from the same event as erasing the Chaos Force.
 
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MikeBro25 said:
Cause it would seem weird since Sonic consistent feats is mostly Multiversal+ and the Low Complex rating is because he fought Mammoth Mougal who killed the Ancient Walkers tho I don't think he actually fought Mammoth Mogal when he became one with the Chaos Force (The one that Titan Tails fought) lmao Mogal killing the Ancient Walker is possibly a case of PIS or Outliner and his rewriting should only be via hax, personally think Low Complex Multiversal in range seems fitting imo and that is not from the fact that Archie Super Forms struggled against Master Emerald Mogul who at best can destroy an Infinite Multiverse.

Either possibly or just Low 1-C in range seems better.
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Thoughts on this?
 
MikeBro25 said:
Cause it would seem weird since Sonic consistent feats is mostly Multiversal+ and the Low Complex rating is because he fought Mammoth Mougal who killed the Ancient Walkers tho I don't think he actually fought Mammoth Mogal when he became one with the Chaos Force (The one that Titan Tails fought) lmao Mogal killing the Ancient Walker is possibly a case of PIS or Outliner and his rewriting should only be via hax, personally think Low Complex Multiversal in range seems fitting imo and that is not from the fact that Archie Super Forms struggled against Master Emerald Mogul who at best can destroy an Infinite Multiverse.
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You are getting some facts wrong there, buddy, like Mogul being the one who dealt the killing blow to the Ancient Walkers, which is wrong.

Or forgetting the fact Master Mogul 1st tenure downscales from the Master Emerald, as Master Mogul is made up of 11 Emeralds, and the Master Emerald is made up of 13 Emeralds.

Sort of matters for Super Sonic. Sort of. The Super Sonic transformation at that time was using the Power Rings to absorb Master Mogul's Energy Blasts to transform.
 
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ElixirBlue said:
You are getting some facts wrong there, buddy, like Mogul being the one who dealt the killing blow to the Ancient Walkers, which is wrong.

Or forgetting the fact Master Mogul 1st tenure downscales from the Master Emerald, as Master Mogul is made up of 11 Emeralds, and the Master Emerald is made up of 13 Emeralds.

Sort of matters for Super Sonic. Sort of. The Super Sonic transformation at that time was using the Power Rings to absorb Master Mogul's Energy Blasts to transform.
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Was Master Mogul when he was wounding the Ancient Walkers was in his tenures or smth or was it just in base?
 
MikeBro25 said:
Was Master Mogul when he was wounding the Ancient Walkers was in his tenures or smth or was it just in base?
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He was not considered in a tenure but Merlin states once Mogul was freed from the Master Emerald, he used the last of his power to deal a fatal blow to the ancient walkers. When the Master Emerald was formed, Mogul's life force was fused with the power for 13 Emeralds to make the Master Emerald.

Mogul couldn't have done wounded the Ancient Walkers in Base, or else he wouldn't have waited his immortal life for the power of Enerjak's avatar. After being unfused with the Master Emerald, that statement of Mogul using the last of that power he holds to attack the Ancient Walkers appears correct, considering the context of what Mogul does later in the comic, such as using Turbo Tails as a power supply to recover his form. (Mogul is a very cool Sonic Villain)
 
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