Prime Moro vs Jiren (CONCLUDED)

[sanicspood]

Moro

Moro is a powerful wizard who threatened Universe 7 about ten million years ago. His power proved to be so great that the Grand Supreme Kai needed to sacrifice his own godly power in order to seal him away. Now that his power has been returned after millions of years of imprisonment, Moro once...

vsbattles.fandom.com

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Jiren_(Chou)

"original power" is used

moro: 7

jiren: 0

incon: 0

 

[Kin201]

IIRC it was implied by Goku that Moro is stronger than Jiren. I'm not sure if he referred to Moro as having higher AP or stronger due to having magic. But assuming he actually referred to Moro as having higher AP than Jiren, then, of course, Moro will likely take this. Him having higher AP along with his magic will wreck Jiren. Jiren can maybe seal him though.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

IIRC it was implied by Goku that Moro is stronger than Jiren. I'm not sure if he referred to Moro as having higher AP or stronger due to having magic. But assuming he actually referred to Moro as having higher AP than Jiren, then, of course, Moro will likely take this. Him having higher AP along with his magic will wreck Jiren. Jiren can maybe seal him though.

He only said it about Angelic Moro though. This is Youth Restored Moro he's talking about. It was even before he absorbed 7-3 yet

 

[Kin201]

I'm pretty sure the gap between 7-3 Moro and Original Full Power Moro isn't that huge. So if it was 7-3 Moro that Goku deemed as being stronger than Jiren, this Moro still likely takes this.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm pretty sure the gap between 7-3 Moro and Original Full Power Moro isn't that huge. So if it was 7-3 Moro that Goku deemed as being stronger than Jiren, this Moro still likely takes this.

Except this isn't even Base Moro 7-3. Goku said it about Moro after he absorbed Merus' power and matched UI Goku

Jiren literally stomps every Moro that isn't Angelic Moro

 

[sanicspood]

Except this isn't even Base Moro 7-3. Goku said it about Moro after he absorbed Merus' power and matched UI Goku

Jiren literally stomps every Moro that isn't Angelic Moro

ig ill count that as a vote

 

[Kin201]

Except this isn't even Base Moro 7-3. Goku said it about Moro after he absorbed Merus' power and matched UI Goku

Jiren literally stomps every Moro that isn't Angelic Moro

Goku referred to 7-3 Moro as being stronger than Jiren. Not the one that matched UI Goku.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Moro sucks Jiren. This dude being a 4-B old man was able to take on SSG Vegeta (3-B), by absorbing his Life force and manipulating the Planet's energy.

Now imagine what he could in this key with his full Magic restored.

In the manga chapter 50, Moro was able to degrade Goku and Vegeta from SSB to SSG, SS3,SS2 , SS, and then base form within seconds.


Moro uses his Magic and annihilates Jiren.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Moro with magic is really OP. Kinda hard for Jiren to fight at full power when he's: 1) Completely drained of his energy, and 2) Moro uses Jiren's own power against him

 

[Zencha9]

yeah moro for god's reasons
magic too OP

 

[sanicspood]

so yall vote moro or?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'll vote Moro too. Jiren definitely have the AP to one shot Moro, but Moro is much smarter, can drain Jiren and use various magic tricks to protect himself from him.
And if the statement of Full Power Moro < SSB Goku physically is true (I heard it in another thread, but I'm not sure about it), then Moro can easily handle and even overpower beings that are far above his leagues

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I'll vote Moro too. Jiren definitely have the AP to one shot Moro, but Moro is much smarter, can drain Jiren and use various magic tricks to protect himself from him.
And if the statement of Full Power Moro < SSB Goku physically is true (I heard it in another thread, but I'm not sure about it), then Moro can easily handle and even overpower beings that are far above his leagues

He did it against Vegeta in Namek.
And the Moro that defeated a 3-B (SSG Vegeta) was 4-B Moro (Old version)
In the manga chapter 45.

The gap between 4-B and 3-B is astronomical, you can't deny that.

Moro's Magic is always a step forward than his strenght.

 

[Arcker123]

Moro hax stomps.

 

[SamanPatou]

Just a note that Moro's original power key is for him after he ate countless planets and stalemated UI Sign Goku, or was even a bit stronger since he held back during their fight and released an burst of aura at the end.
This doesn't put him on Jiren's level, but not even that much far behind.

Blue Goku and Vegeta are stronger than a version of Moro who hadn't totally recovered his youth yet and still had to go through his planet binge-eating tour.

But I vote Moro because of energy suck + magic and not being too much behind Jiren in raw power, Jiren isn't someone who goes all out immediatedly and Moro uses to conceal his abilities.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Then yeah. Moro definitely wins here

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

energy suck + magic

His energy suck is also part of his Magic.

 

[SamanPatou]

I know, I just wanted to say magic to refer to all the other stuff he has, 'cause I'm lazy.

 

[sanicspood]

Moro hax stomps.

is that a vote or?

 

[Arcker123]

Yes

 

[sanicspood]

bump

 

[VinnyXD]

Moro fra

 

[sanicspood]

Moro fra

counted

 

[SirAlex09]

What is going to stop Moro from absorbing Jiren's power and then kill him? Old Moro was weaker than both Goku and vegeta and still came up on top

Imo the only reason why Moro lost was due to PIS. MUI is a very draining form so it was actually a counter match up in favour of Moro. Without PIS Moro should stomp Jiren aswell as Mui Goku due to Hax

 

[Kin201]

That's not PIS. 7-3 Moro being stomped because MUI Goku is massively stronger and faster than him, plus Ultra Instinct counters pretty much everything Moro can do. It automatically reacts to Moro's doings and beats him.

 

[The_Eldritch_Snowcone]

Moro FRA

 

[sanicspood]

and das grace

 

[SirAlex09]

That's not PIS. 7-3 Moro being stomped because MUI Goku is massively stronger and faster than him, plus Ultra Instinct counters pretty much everything Moro can do. It automatically reacts to Moro's doings and beats him.

Sorry but imagine Doctor Strange starts using hand to hand combat to fight Black panther and lose . It's kinda PIS and that was the equivalent. How is Goku supposed to dodge Energy absorption that has planetary possibly Star level range?

Goku UI Sign attempted to dodge it only for Moro to mock him for thinking that and that he doesn't need it to beat Goku ( and proceeds to never use it again Lol PIS)

Also Vegeta( 3B) was massively above old Moro ( 4 B !!!) as well. Power gap doesn't mean anything if he can just drain him.

 

[Kin201]

Okay. How does that null my point that Goku being massively stronger and faster than him and having Ultra Instinct to automatically react to any threats is how he beats the hell out of Moro? Moro could not absorb his energy while he was moving at high-speed. He didn't need it to beat Goku doesn't mean he could use it on him if he wanted. Your point is headcanon and is contradicted by the story. And now we have MUI Goku who is massively faster than Moro, so countering his Energy Absorption is literally a piece of cake.

His Energy Absorption is utterly useless if his opponents blitz the hell out of him. Period.

 

[sanicspood]

but the speed gap between jiren and moro isn't even that high

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Okay. How does that null my point that Goku being massively stronger and faster than him and having Ultra Instinct to automatically react to any threats is how he beats the hell out of Moro? Moro could not absorb his energy while he was moving at high-speed. He didn't need it to beat Goku doesn't mean he could use it on him if he wanted. Your point is headcanon and is contradicted by the story. And now we have MUI Goku who is massively faster than Moro, so countering his Energy Absorption is literally a piece of cake.

His Energy Absorption is utterly useless if his opponents blitz the hell out of him. Period.

That was becouse Goku's speed was faster than Moro trying to activate his Energy drain.

 

[SirAlex09]

Okay. How does that null my point that Goku being massively stronger and faster than him and having Ultra Instinct to automatically react to any threats is how he beats the hell out of Moro? Moro could not absorb his energy while he was moving at high-speed. He didn't need it to beat Goku doesn't mean he could use it on him if he wanted. Your point is headcanon and is contradicted by the story. And now we have MUI Goku who is massively faster than Moro, so countering his Energy Absorption is literally a piece of cake.

His Energy Absorption is utterly useless if his opponents blitz the hell out of him. Period.

https://dragonballread.com/manga/dragon-ball-super-chapter-59-online-read/

Moro " As I thought" after seeing Goku rush on beating him

Moro " Whats wrong ? " " You are so eager to be done with this"

Moro " You believe you have found a way around my energy absorption but you made a grave error"

That's what Moro said. That's not head canon but facts. If Goku had actually dodged it, he would have said
"You found a way around my energy absorption but I can beat you without it " But he didn't.

He wanted to drag out the battle and beat the shit out of Goku thus mocking him.

Prove:
Moro : " As such I will happily devour your energy after I have defeated you "

Then he uses his full power and blitzes UI Sign Goku. He could have absorbed his energy at that point easily. The speed gap was non existant since they were equal but he didn't do that.


Later Angelic Moro was able to tag MUI Goku multiple times and was somewhat relative to him in power. But He still didnt absorb his powers. You could argue that he might have avoided it due to how taxing Meerus powers are but he didnt know that until much later in the fight.

If that isn't PIS , I dont know


Also " massively faster" isn't an argument. Solar system level Moro reacted to multi Galaxy level Vegeta and drained his energy. The difference in power is muich bigger than the difference between UI Goku whom Full power Moro is far superior to) and MUI Goku

 

[sanicspood]

what does PIS mean

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I agree with SirAlex.

 

[sanicspood]

oh i know what it means now

 

[SirAlex09]

what does PIS mean

PIS means plot induced stupidity. For example if someone is far more powerful but uses his powers in a dumb way or doesn't use them to begin with and end up losing because of it

Like Jiren not soloing everyone and win the ToP in 5 Sec , which he certainly can by feats.

 

[SamanPatou]

Moro actually can't absorb energy from Goku due to his speed, he probably needs to keep track of the target in some way (for how nonsensical it is as he sucks entire planets and life forms on them) but there are panels with Piccolo and Jaco talking about this specific thing.
Moro is confident because he was concealing his true strength, which allowed him to blitz Goku and suck his energy once he manages to hug him.
It's PIS the fact that he doesn't absorb energy when his speed is even to Goku's, but he definitely can't absorb someone who is faster and actively dodging it.

And the UI doesn't drain Goku's energy so much anymore, after he trained with Merus and unlocked (again) the white form at the end.

That said, I don't think this matters for the match, Jiren doesn't know of Moro's magic and tends to not go all out immediately, and Moro uses to not spoil his magic and strength.

 

[SirAlex09]

Moro actually can't absorb energy from Goku due to his speed, he probably needs to keep track of the target in some way (for how nonsensical it is as he sucks entire planets and life forms on them) but there are panels with Piccolo and Jaco talking about this specific thing.
Moro is confident because he was concealing his true strength, which allowed him to blitz Goku and suck his energy once he manages to hug him.
It's PIS the fact that he doesn't absorb energy when his speed is even to Goku's, but he definitely can't absorb someone who is faster and actively dodging it.

And the UI doesn't drain Goku's energy so much anymore, after he trained with Merus.

That said, I don't think this matters for the match, Jiren doesn't know of Moro's magic and tends to not go all out immediately, and Moro uses to not spoil his magic and strength.

Yah ok that makes sense. He probably has to concentrate on his targets but seems kinda weird since he was shown to absorb the energy from Namekians he didnt even see or register .
Maybe he locked onto them with Ki sense.

I agree with the last point. Jiren has very passive fighting style of letting the opponent come and then counterattack with a heavy blow .

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Moro actually can't absorb energy from Goku due to his speed, he probably needs to keep track of the target in some way (for how nonsensical it is as he sucks entire planets and life forms on them) but there are panels with Piccolo and Jaco talking about this specific thing.
Moro is confident because he was concealing his true strength, which allowed him to blitz Goku and suck his energy once he manages to hug him.
It's PIS the fact that he doesn't absorb energy when his speed is even to Goku's, but he definitely can't absorb someone who is faster and actively dodging it.

And the UI doesn't drain Goku's energy so much anymore, after he trained with Merus and unlocked (again) the white form at the end.

That said, I don't think this matters for the match, Jiren doesn't know of Moro's magic and tends to not go all out immediately, and Moro uses to not spoil his magic and strength.

That doesn't change the fact that Moro's Life force Absorption range is pretty vast, like, Planetary to large Planetary at most.
He is able to drain the energy of entire Planet's within seconds as shown in manga chapter 43.

 

[Kin201]

Also " massively faster" isn't an argument. Solar system level Moro reacted to multi Galaxy level Vegeta and drained his energy. The difference in power is muich bigger than the difference between UI Goku whom Full power Moro is far superior to) and MUI Goku

Yes, it is. Ultra Instinct is a counter for Moro's Energy Absorption. As I said, it automatically reacts to any threats and beats Moro before he can do his stuff. Moro raises a hand and it instantly reacts to it and catches him. Goku can also dodge Energy Absorption by moving at high-speeds.

Power is just minor, the problem is speed. Moro could keep up with Vegeta and Vegeta didn't have Ultra Instinct to counter Moro's Energy Absorption either, so he isn't massively faster Moro.

There's no way Moro can beat Whis with EA, who is massively faster and stronger than him, plus he has better UI than Goku. That is the equivalent. MUI Goku beating him is not PIS.