Yu-gi-oh! Anime Upgrades

[SomebodyData]

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a plot hole- just that not all cards were created with a respective monster spirit in mind.

If I remember correctly, it wasn't Stardust that destroyed the monster that created a black hole. Actually, what card created the black hole again?

 

[Zencha9]

fair but i think most of them are
it was T.G. Halberd Cannon iirc

 

[Overlord775]

...That's the point. Cards can be created, showing not everything was originally a monster spirit- therefore means Pegasus made-up monsters and by extension their effects.

Said cards are created by fusing/modifing spirits togheter, so nothing new is actually created

All monsters are still beings that come from the spirit world, so you litterally can't just make them unless you like reality warp them into existance

In Tart's case it's to show it's not hyperbolic / she has precedence, given tier 2 > tier 3.

That's just hax, just range even at worse

and if we wanna go that route, everybody that can do shadow duels has tier 2 BFR since they can send people to the shadow realm

If you can scale ATK to their AP, you're inevitably getting ATK scaling.

Not how it work, ATK scaling would be scaling Crystal Wing to Blue Eyes because they are both 3000 atk, this is very much different

Just because you arbitrarily limit it to Obelisk means nothing.

It's not the same, it's not attack point scaling, it's litterall just him being stated have infinite force

The point was that Ra and Slifer can both vary (using the very card effects you believe in) to the point of being weaker than most monsters, hence why its suspect to use ATK and their card effects. Even without LP or cards in your hand- Slifer and Ra have shown actual powers outside a duel, showing they are >>>>>> 99.9999999999% of cards when outside of game mechanics.

considering how the god cards are based around tribute, it's more likelyy they are restricted by their summon, otherwise you know they would just go Exodia Obliterate on the opponent

also, take in consideration the fact that god cards can't be destroyed by non-god monsters

How would they scale to Infinite Obelisk? I must have missed that.

Because it would make litterally no sense for them not to when Slifer is considered his equal and Ra his superior

also, Ra has a similar thing with it's Pheonix form which allows him to destroy any monster

Hold on, we're scaling Stardust Dragon to the Crimson Dragon?

yep

like, the Signer Dragons fought alongside him in the war way back when, so they must be comparable

Also, how is calling the og cards legendary mean that they're High 4-C, as if reputation scales AP?

Yuma wouldn't just lose his shit at the Blue Eyes attacking him if they were millions of times weaker than his ace

also, a Number User, who litterally ranted for a good minute about how only power through sheer might matters, wanted the lengendary cards of the dojo

 

[SomebodyData]

In PoL the Sphinx archetype and Blue-Eyes Shining Dragon were explicitly made by Pegasus. In "Yu-Gi-Oh! R", the Wicked God archetype was explicitly made by Pegasus. Even in the og anime, there was an antagonist who used counterfeit cards. Fusions like Thousand-Year Dragon isn't a merger like that tho. The mere fact that it exists alongside Baby Dragon as cards despite being the same spirit shows the cards aren't exact copies of the spirits, same for fusions and their fusion materials.

The Shadow Realm is 4Kids only, at least read the manga / watch the sub before you make a thread regarding them. Also when was the Shadow Realm a 2-A space or something that Obelisk has? The general points were that the infinity statements weren't hyperbole (or game mechanics in this case).

You misunderstand, if ATK scales to AP in this case, there is no reason for it not to scale in every other case.

They're describing his ATK points when that happens.

Cough, cough, maybe it's because Infinite ATK is game mechanics? I don't know if you've realized this, but the cards' effects are different from their actual hierarchy. Anyone who's played the card game can tell you this:

• Cards: Obelisk > Slifer > Ra
• Non-Card: Ra > Obelisk > Slifer

Can you link that? Cause canonically throughout the series the Crimson Dragon is far above any individual signer or signer dragon, and the source of some of their power-ups.

...Let me guess, this was in the middle of a duel right?

 

[SomebodyData]

@Zencha9 correct me if I'm wrong, but that monster was one of the few monsters Yusei couldn't beat- he had to defeat his opponent through other means.

 

[Zencha9]

@SomebodyData just checked yes he defated T.G. Halberd Cannon by other means by using shooting star but in the attack animation he tanked shooting star tanked his attack then he got buffed by a card and destroyed T.G. Halberd
either way stardust should scale above them in later seasons

 

[SomebodyData]

Mind linking it? T.G. has 4000 ATK whereas Shooting Star has 3300 so it seems farfetched unless TG was weakened- though if he got buffed regardless that causes issues.

Why does Stardust scale to his superior form?

 

[Zencha9]

@SomebodyData saw it in this video
due to scaling to higher threats than bruno ?

 

[Overlord775]

In PoL the Sphinx archetype and Blue-Eyes Shining Dragon were explicitly made by Pegasus. In "Yu-Gi-Oh! R", the Wicked God archetype was explicitly made by Pegasus.

Both those movies are non-canon, so they don't matter

also, there's the fact that they would be just summoning other spirits

Even in the og anime, there was an antagonist who used counterfeit cards

Counterfeit cards would be summoning spirits just the same, as seen by the fact that the counterfeit Ra summoned the actual Ra

Fusions like Thousand-Year Dragon isn't a merger like that tho. The mere fact that it exists alongside Baby Dragon as cards despite being the same spirit shows the cards aren't exact copies of the spirits, same for fusions and their fusion materials.

I already explained that one, Thousand-Yeat dragon is just an older version of Baby Dragon brough by Time Wizard sheninigans, also in the anime it's not even a fusion monster

also, you do realize that there can just be multiple version of the same monster, right ? stuff like Baby Dragon is a specie
87

Ngl, you lost all your credibility there. The Shadow Realm is 4Kids only, at least read the manga / watch the sub before you make a thread regarding them. Also when was the Shadow Realm a 2-A space or something that Obelisk has?

tbf, the shadow realm isn't even remotly part of the CTR so i didn't go double check on it

also again, sending people to a 2-A space is range

You misunderstand, if ATK scales to AP in this case, there is no reason for it not to scale in every other case.

Escept that there's no need to, as in these exemples here they correlate atk with power directly

They're describing his ATK points when that happens.

No, they are addresing the power of the monster

Cough, cough, maybe it's because Infinite ATK is game mechanics?

you are trying to force game mechanic on serie where stuff like that isn't a thing at all

Like, i get that attack points are inconsistent, but Jesus you don't have to throw everything out of the window because of it

I don't know if you've realized this, but the cards' effects are different from their actual hierarchy. Anyone who's played the card game can tell you this:

• Cards: Obelisk > Slifer > Ra
• Non-Card: Ra > Obelisk > Slifer

IRL cards are very much not canon, like anime Ra has like 20 effects FFS

Can you link that? Cause canonically throughout the series the Crimson Dragon is far above any individual signer or signer dragon, and the source of some of their power-ups.

https://media.**********.net/attachments/553055160528666635/781609628822667314/unknown.png

[btw, by comparable i ment roughtly comparable, not equal]

...Let me guess, this was in the middle of a duel right?

define which of the two thing you are referring about

 

[SomebodyData]

I had to put it in 0.25 speed to read everything but:

1. Shooting Star Dragon only survived because a card effect from another card made it invulnerable.
2. Everyone there would have been killed by the black hole including Bruno and T.G., showing T.G. only scales to his own AP.
3. AP doesn't scale just because one's a bigger threat than the other, even in Dragon Ball where AP is practically god we still don't take it that way, why would YuGiOh?

 

[NostalgiaTrip]

To quote Kaiba... 'Screw the rules, I have money!'

I haven't taken Yugioh strength seriously ever since I saw the whole higher than infinity BS. I mean the fact that Dartz monster had infinite attack means that there shouldn't have been anything that could have beat it.

If Yugi had somehow sealed the monster away or used a trap to get rid of it, that I would have believed... but beating it by sheer strength is just so PIS that I don't even like mentioning it.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yu-Gi-Oh R was a manga sequel, but it'd be non-canon to the anime, you're right.

That reminds me that Exodia has one spirit, but in card form represents 5. Regardless the point is that the cards aren't absolute- if they can be faked then their abilities by extension can too.

The point is that the cards aren't 1 to 1, hence why different versions of the same spirit exist.

They are remarking on the ATK though, not Obelisk's AP. Not a single one of those characters legitimately thought Obelisk was High 3-A or could destroy the universe in those sequences.

The power of Obelisk as a card due to his ATK points.

"you are trying to force game mechanic on serie where stuff like that isn't a thing at all"

1. Pegasus literally made this originally to be a children's card game. He didn't realize the dark magic til later.
2. In the verse, it is a card game that only a few people actually know entails dark magic.
3. The majority of duels literally involve the mechanics of the game.

I said non-card not IRL FFS, as even in the verse it is seen that by card effects Obelisk > Ra > Slifer as GX showed.

EDIT: It works, but I don't see where the Signer Dragons scale equal to the CD

Shooting Star vs T.G.

 

[Zencha9]

i'll consede to SD's points regarding 5d's since i don't know much about 5d's

if they can be faked then their abilities by extension can too.

mind elaborating on how can they be faked

1. Pegasus literally made this originally to be a children's card game. He didn't realize the dark magic til later.

so again how did pegasus know about the Divine Hierarchy and diabound's power to copy stuff ? like i said it's just a massive plothole

Obelisk > Ra > Slifer as GX showed

mind elaborating because the ra in gx is a fake one iirc

 

[Overlord775]

That reminds me that Exodia has one spirit, but in card form represents 5.

wasn't Exodia's spirit split in 5 tho ?

Regardless the point is that the cards aren't absolute- if they can be faked then their abilities by extension can too.

Has it ever happened that a card had a fake effect ? because otherwise what you are saying is headcanon

The point is that the cards aren't 1 to 1, hence why different versions of the same spirit exist.

How the hell did you even extract that from what i said ? like, there being multiple spirits for the same card doesn't change anything, as they would all have the same powers

They are remarking on the ATK though, not Obelisk's AP. Not a single one of those characters legitimately thought Obelisk was High 3-A or could destroy the universe in those sequences.

considering Kaiba straight up said "Obelisk's force becomes infinite" i am very much sure it's AP related

The power of Obelisk as a card due to his ATK points.

there's litterally, like absolutelly none whatsoever that the actual Obelisk wouldn't also have the ability

"you are trying to force game mechanic on serie where stuff like that isn't a thing at all"

1. Pegasus literally made this originally to be a children's card game. He didn't realize the dark magic til later.
2. In the verse, it is a card game that only a few people actually know entails dark magic.
3. The majority of duels literally involve the mechanics of the game.

1. Monsters are still spirits even if Pegasus didn't realize
2. Doesn't matter
3. Not only the mechanics of the game, but mostly the abilities of the monsters and the spell/trap cards

I said non-card not IRL FFS, even in the verse it is seen that by card effects Obelisk > Ra > Slifer as GX showed.

i thought you ment irl when you said Card

though, the god cards appearing in gx is rather fishy, as they were ealed away with Athem, so i'll need you to prove this point

Broken link

https://media.**********.net/attachments/553055160528666635/781609628822667314/unknown.png

[also by comparable i ment roughtly comparable, not equals]

@NostalgiaTrip

That's not a Plot Induced Stupidity

"PIS, short for "Plot-Induced Stupidity" is a term used to refer to events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot. For example, if a generally competent, intelligent villain does something stupid like not killing the hero immediately when he has the chance, and that allows the hero to win, that would be an example of PIS (If the villain was just incompetent in general, it would be CIS, or short for "Character-Induced Stupidity" instead). "

Yugi creating a monster stronger than infinity is just bad writing, something Season 4 didn't have a lack of

 

[SomebodyData]

@Zencha

Well when you make fake cards, you can make fake abilities. We already know it's possible via the Seeker creating fake Exodia cards for example.

The divine hierarchy doesn't exist in the anime as far as I'm aware, at least not in the same way as the manga. Funnily enough, the anime version of the card does not have the ability to copy other monsters, which I realize I should have brought up first and foremost since it completely debunks card effect = actual monster's abilities.

I meant that by the time GX takes place, everyone thinks Obelisk > Ra > Slifer because of their card effects. Those who faced the cards in the og series know their magical powers is actually ranked Ra > Obelisk > Slifer.

@Overlord

No, his spirit remained intact, it just needed someone's lifeforce to fight.

Well, it's kinda obvious here- I'm not even sure how you're defending it. If you can make fake cards, you can clearly make fake abilities. Give me a printer and even I can do that.

You mean multiple cards for the same spirit? It debunks your notion given how that would entail, for example, that Thousand Year Dragon and Baby Dragon is simultaneously the same spirit, simultaneously a thousand years old and a baby. Hell, just look at the Cyber Dragon line. Ignoring the fact that the technology didn't exist, Cyber End Dragon is the result of 3 cards of the same spirit, something physically impossible- I'd be like having Gogeta, Goku, and Vegeta in the same room.

Clearly talking about ATK points, he literally says it as Obelisk's ATK becomes infinite. It is ridiculous to assume he's actually punching an infinite sized hole into someone or something in a duel.

The actual Obelisk... doesn't have that ability. Have you even seen Season 5? None of them have their card effects.

Bruh they literally have their academies named after the God cards, Yugi's duels with them are legendary in GX.

And did the Signer Dragons defeat Red Nova? Or was he sealed away by another person (not even the signer dragons) who possessed a blazing soul? At least check what actually happened before you use it as evidence.

 

[Zencha9]

Well when you make fake cards, you can make fake abilities. We already know it's possible via the Seeker creating fake Exodia cards for example.

but it still did not happen no one modified card effects in the show all they did is make a copy of said cards if people can just modfiy the cards then almost everyone would have an "i win by doing x"type of card

The divine hierarchy doesn't exist in the anime as far as I'm aware, at least not in the same way as the manga. Funnily enough, the anime version of the card does not have the ability to copy other monsters, which I realize I should have brought up first and foremost since it completely debunks card effect = actual monster's abilities.

im talking about the invulnerability to each other the gods still have it
doesn't matter because it did copy blue-eyes's effect during the duel and king bakura used blue-eyes's attack

 

[SomebodyData]

...So you're arguing that just because cards can be faked, card effects can't? How does that even work? No one does that because it would be immediately obvious they used fake cards- ignoring the fact that counterfeit is already rare.

They're not invulnerable to each other's effects, where did you get that?

...Blue-Eyes isn't an effect monster.

 

[SomebodyData]

Also thanks to that video, you accidentally downgraded Yusei to only High 4-C with Crimson Dragon 's AP and removed all the other stats, even FTL as he couldn't escape the black hole.

 

[Overlord775]

No, his spirit remained intact, it just needed someone's lifeforce to fight.

IDK, i remembered that was the reason he's split in 5 card

Well, it's kinda obvious here- I'm not even sure how you're defending it. If you can make fake cards, you can clearly make fake abilities. Give me a printer and even I can do that.

It's not obvious, fake copies of a card are still essentially the same card and draw the same spirit, litterally having unleggitimate effects is a complete other thing, as they wouldn't have an spirits do draw from and the duelling disk would probably give error or something

unless you have actual PROOF that is a possibility, all that amounts to is headcanon speculation.

You mean multiple cards for the same spirit? It debunks your notion given how that would entail, for example, that Thousand Year Dragon and Baby Dragon is simultaneously the same spirit, simultaneously a thousand years old and a baby. Hell, just look at the Cyber Dragon line. Ignoring the fact that the technology didn't exist, Cyber End Dragon is the result of 3 cards of the same spirit, something physically impossible- I'd be like having Gogeta, Goku, and Vegeta in the same room.

There can be multiple of the same spirit, see Black Magician and his Red counterpart or the Three Blue Eyes White Dragons

Also, was Baby Dragon ever out at the same time as Thousand Dragon ? cuz Joey only runs one copy, so that seems VERY unlikely to me

Cyber Dragon being a machine doesn't matter, as beings in the spirit world can just make machines [cue Lightsworns for exemple]

also, why do you bring up DBZ mechanics ? Fusion works completly differently in Yu-gi-oh and saying that a three way fusion is impossible based on the mechanics of a completly unrelated serie is nonsense

Clearly talking about ATK points, he literally says it as Obelisk's ATK becomes infinite. It is ridiculous to assume he's actually punching an infinite sized hole into someone or something in a duel.

actually, that would be what would happen, but Kaiba's system protects the duelists

this is seen by the fact that when the safety mechanisms were off he was in danger of being extremelly hurt/killed if he was to be attack by Ultimate Blue Eyes

The actual Obelisk... doesn't have that ability. Have you even seen Season 5? None of them have their card effects.

the god cards can have abiltiies not mentioned in their text as established in season 2 when Kaiba was studing Ra

Bruh they literally have their academies named after the God cards, Yugi's duels with them are legendary in GX.

YEEEEEAAH and that has nothing to do with the power of the cards themselves, it's mostly simbolic (Jayden is Slifer because that was Yugi's god card and Chazz is Obelisk because that was Kaiba's god card)

like, if they actually cared about that they wouldn't have put Obelisk as two tiers above Slifer when they mutually killed each other in the semi-final of Battle City

And did the Signer Dragons defeat Red Nova? Or was he sealed away by another person (not even the signer dragons) who possessed a blazing soul? At least check what actually happened before you use it as evidence.

I already knew about that, but they still put a fight against it without being completly splatted before that happened, which means they would scale to an extent to Nova

 

[SomebodyData]

Really? I know in season 5 at least it's shown not to be true, but maybe you got something I don't.

I'm pretty sure that's not true, I think Ra actually got pissed when Marik made counterfeits so Ra killed the users- but let me double-check.

Lightsworns aren't canon to og YuGiOh, so your point is mute there. Also in season 4 we see the spirit world, there are no machines so the Cyber Dragon point is furthered against you. I don't get your response about DB's fusion being different- it was just an analogy about general fusion- how the fusions can't exist alongside the fusees, that's absurd.

When his safety was off the feat was tier 8 / 9, that's nothing compared to high 3-A which would have instantly killed him.

Yeah but no. They eventually covered all the abilities Ra had, and this was only for Ra. Also, that's for their cards. The actual monsters didn't exist as cards in season 5.

In GX the regular populace didn't know the monsters were real still, which decimates the entire point you were trying to make. Also, if it did have to do with the powers of the monsters, then they wouldn't have been scaled that way.

I linked you the page to at least get a summary, the Crimson Devil fought the Crimson Dragon but the Blazing Soul signer was the one who succeeded the dragon. The signer dragons didn't get the chance to fight.

 

[Zencha9]

...So you're arguing that just because cards can be faked, card effects can't? How does that even work? No one does that because it would be immediately obvious they used fake cards- ignoring the fact that counterfeit is already rare.

you can say the same thing with the obelisk there's no monster that can increases it's attack to infinity in DM it would be obvious that it's fake and there's only one of him in the entire world. also all of this is speculation no one in DM did that so why should we assume that they can

They're not invulnerable to each other's effects, where did you get that?

umm when obelisk used his effect to increase his attack to infinity and attack RA it didn't work when slifer used his effct on ra it didn't work

Blue-Eyes isn't an effect monster

still copied his attack not his effect he doesn't have one

Also thanks to that video, you accidentally downgraded Yusei to only High 4-C with Crimson Dragon 's AP and removed all the other stats, even FTL as he couldn't escape the black hole.

his profiles states that yusei is High 4-C with the Crimson Dragon ? also what ? they were still out running the black hole up until yusei attacked and bruno got damaged
also i don't really care if he gets downgraded as along as it's accurate

 

[SomebodyData]

@Zencha9

I admit I might be stupid cause I just remembered an example. Odion's fake copy of Ra has the ability to take the ATK points of those tributed to summon it, the real copy Marik had takes your LP instead.

That's because of Phoenix Ra's effect, not a hierarchy. Hence why Slifer and Obelisk still affect another and they can still affect regular Ra.

The anime card effect decreases the equipped monster's attack, not copies it.

Yeah, but exclusively the Crimson Dragon (assuming he can summon him, can't say I remember that), not scaling to anything else. The subtitles state it because the black hole is still in process of forming that Yusei can momentarily not get consumed. Also FTL is for outrunning, this would be an unknown speed at best.

 

[Overlord775]

@Zencha9

I admit I might be stupid cause I just remembered an example. Odion's fake copy of Ra has the ability to take the ATK points of those tributed to summon it, the real copy Marik had takes your LP instead.

no, non-fake Ra has that too, the recivin' the attack points of the monsters tributed it's one of the many extra abilities the anime version of the divine beast has

 

[SomebodyData]

No, that's fake Ra. If you're judging based on the wiki, they use the video games as canon proof (obv wouldn't fly here) to explain why there was a difference in abilities. They even have an extra page for Ra later within the anime, given Odion's Ra was different.

 

[Overlord775]

They state MULTIPLE times in the anime that Ra recives the powers of his tributes, HELL, he can even tribute more monsters after bein' summoned to increese his own power further

 

[Overlord775]

I'm pretty sure that's not true, I think Ra actually got pissed when Marik made counterfeits so Ra killed the users- but let me double-check.

Odion used a courtfeit and summoned the actual Ra, who the proceeded to smite the everloving shit out of him

Lightsworns aren't canon to og YuGiOh, so your point is mute there. Also in season 4 we see the spirit world, there are no machines so the Cyber Dragon point is furthered against you. I don't get your response about DB's fusion being different- it was just an analogy about general fusion- how the fusions can't exist alongside the fusees, that's absurd.

It just to show that stuff like that is possible

Also, we saw only a REAAAAAAlLLY small amount of that word, so unless you belive that oceans aren't a thing in the spirit world because we never seen one your point is moot

Then what's the problem that you have with Cyber End ? it's litterally just he three Cyberg Dragons merged togheter

When his safety was off the feat was tier 8 / 9, that's nothing compared to high 3-A which would have instantly killed him.

Ultimate BE is currently rated as 5-A, so it would have instantly killed too

In GX the regular populace didn't know the monsters were real still, which decimates the entire point you were trying to make. Also, if it did have to do with the powers of the monsters, then they wouldn't have been scaled that way.

by simbolic, i ment meta-wise, as in the reason is probably not for in-universe reasons, but because of outside universe reasons.

though, your theory falls apart to pieces by the simple fact that Kaiba made the school, so he would have been bias for his own god card and bias against Yugi's

I linked you the page to at least get a summary, the Crimson Devil fought the Crimson Dragon but the Blazing Soul signer was the one who succeeded the dragon. The signer dragons didn't get the chance to fight.

Episode 133 implies that it was a long fight, so they 100% had a chance to both hit and be hitten

 

[Imaginym]

actually, that would be what would happen, but Kaiba's system protects the duelists

this is seen by the fact that when the safety mechanisms were off he was in danger of being extremelly hurt/killed if he was to be attack by Ultimate Blue Eyes

When was this?
Also, regarding Kaiba vs Duel Computer, Kaiba referring to Obelisk having Infinite Force as referring to Infinite AP seems OoC. Kaiba is usually indifferent to disbelieving of magic & stuff, even Obelisk, & he was using it in that duel to test it out.
So it doesn't seem likely he would actually CARE if Obelisk had powers outside of the game, so why would he refer to non-game elements like it having infinite force? More likely he was referring to the infinite ATK.
Sure it overloaded the systems (My memory says it was from Obelisk hitting BEUD.), but Kaiba didn't expect that, & the damage from Obelisk's infinite power ATK was not infinite.

 

[Overlord775]

@Imaginym
during the Kaiba vs Duel Computer match

Also, Kaiba says the infinite force thing during Yugi's match vs Eviler Marik, not vs the Duel Computer

We don't even know if Kaiba used the infinite force ability vs the Duel Computed, Obelisk has multiple abilities that require 2 tributes to use after all

BTW, Kaiba completly refusing that magic is real is a 4kids only thing iirc, in the Japanese version he aknologes it as existing, but simply doesn't care about it

 

[Imaginym]

@Imaginym
during the Kaiba vs Duel Computer match

Also, Kaiba says the infinite force thing during Yugi's match vs Eviler Marik, not vs the Duel Computer

We don't even know if Kaiba used the infinite force ability vs the Duel Computed, Obelisk has multiple abilities that require 2 tributes to use after all

BTW, Kaiba completly refusing that magic is real is a 4kids only thing iirc, in the Japanese version he aknologes it as existing, but simply doesn't care about it

& I accounted for that dub discrepancy; As I argued, why would someone indifferent to magic/the supernatural refer to outside-the-game-elements (Like having infinite power.) when commenting on the events of the game?
If Kaiba's dueling or watching the duel, & given how much he cares about his rivalry against Yugi (& by extension, whether or not Marik beats Yugi.) he probably doesn't care about the outside-the-duel power of the monsters, Obelisk included.
So if Kaiba comments on infinite power, he's probably not referring to how powerful it is outside the duel, because he doesn't care about that at best, & doesn't believe it at worst.
Ergo, Kaiba is calling infinite ATK infinite ATK, & not infinite strength/AP/force.

 

[Overlord775]

ehhh, let's drop the Obelisk thing, though tbh the serpent geh/Dragon knights infinite power multiplication argument was ment to be the main factor, with Obelisk being just support evidence

 

[SomebodyData]

Yeah, because Ra refused to be summoned by counterfeit.

So my examples of Yugioh R and PoL do the same? A world with machines within it would look very different than the kingdom we saw, especially any urban place.

Ultimate BE is for season 5, so no.

Symbolism/author intent really is not a good argument- we look for the in-universe reasoning. Kaiba owns the school, don't think he made it though- not that it matters, housing is a chancellor decision not Kaiba's. Also wouldn't make sense with Ra being in the middle- when Kaiba already knows it's the strongest.

With the Crimson Devil or with the Earthbound Immortals? Note that the Crimson Devil was avoided even by the other Immortals.

Edit: Saw that Obelisk was dropped.

What's there to say about the Divine Serpent?

 

[Overlord775]

So, for anyone who hasn't seen the Finale of Season 4 of the anime, at the climax point of Athem's Dartz, the latter summoned his strongest monster, the Divine Serpent.
https://media.**********.net/attachments/506161097397633038/780548997189992488/unknown.png?width=627&height=425

This bad boy had infinite attack points, with Athem referring to it as having "Infinite Strenght" thrice

How did our favorite Pharaoh beat this beast ? simple, he activated the special ability of his knights, which allowed him to redirect Crisius' attack into Heremos, who then activate his ability to redirect back the attack at his fellow knight. This created an endless loop, multipling the strenght of the attack to infinity, as he then merged the three knights ito the Knight of Destiny.

The Knight of Destiny is and i quote "Your serpent's strenght may be infinity, but now there's a force beyond infinity."

So yeah, both of them are clearly High 3-A, but what has this to do with the god card ? getting to it.

The great Leviathan, as Dartz's god and who the former spend over 10 thousand years to try revive, should very easilly be vastly above the Divine Serpent, a beast the atlantian menged to summon relativelly easilly [Remember that the Orichalcos has the power to make monsters actually appear in the world, as swell as the fact that in same season monsters were stated as real entities residing in a parralel world] and that he was only able to bring out thanks to the power of the Orichalcos [which was created by the great Leviathan], specifically with Orichalcos Kyutora and Orichalcos Shunoros. So the great Leviathan scales to the High 3-A.

Lastly, the god cards were the only thing that could stand against the Leviathan and defeat it, with every other monster not menaging to even scratch it and getting one-shotted, so much so that the serpent even initially tried to flee once they were ressurected. Furthermore, their power had been required to revive the great Leviathan. So High 3-A for the anime god cards, the Creator of Light and Zorc.

 

[Imaginym]

What's there to say about the Divine Serpent?

Divine Serpent Geh was summoned as a result of the destruction of Orichalcos Shunuros (Which itself was summoned as a result of Orichalcos Kyutora.) & had Infinite ATK. Geh was defeated by The Legendary Knights doing an infinite loop to bounce an ATK between two of them to multiply a finite value (Which doesn't actually work for math to make infinity.), THEN fused (Again, still not with a total ATK of Infinity unless Infinite Attack Speed, which necessitates Yugi performing Polymerization with Infinite Speed.) , which somehow gave their resulting Fusion more-than-Infinite ATK.

Also, if my memory serves, wasn't there a weakening of Leviathan when the people & Duel Monsters Spirits called on their positive emotions/the light in their hearts to weaken Leviathan, since it feeds on & was empowered by the darkness n Hearts? & wasn't this same light what recharged the Gods?

 

[SomebodyData]

Imaginym - I mean that just tells me Infinite ATK is transfinite, not that Yu-Gi-Oh is being bad with the math.

Overlord775 - I'm going to go ahead and give a guess that Yugi's referring to the ATK points of the Divine Beast, not that it literally has High 3-A AP. This would be a lot easier to take in if every statement didn't conveniently correlate with ATK being infinite.

Now if it was stated outside the duel, and assuming what Imaginym said was wrong about Leviathan was weakened while the Gods were empowered, then you might have an argument there.

 

[Overlord775]

@SomebodyData

Why would it being in a duel matter at all ? attack points or not, Athem still had to multiply his knight's attack to infinity and then go even beyond to kill the snake

 

[Imaginym]

I want to check the statements again, to verify how the Infinite ATK loop worked, as well as if Leviathan was weakened; It's been a bit. Does anyone know where to find The Knights vs Geh episode(s), & the monsters (The part before the Gods fight it.) vs Leviathan episodes?
Since we're usually concerned with original language, subbed is ideal.

 

[Overlord775]

also in this exemple it litterally can't be game mechanics, as the monsters are very much physical because of the power of the Orichalcos

 

[SomebodyData]

We go back to the issue that ATK =/= Attack Potency.

It doesn't help either that the multiplying means it's just transfinite, not High 3-A infinity.

The ATK is game mechanics, the monsters are real. It's not like a physical BEUD actually attacks with 5-A AP because of his 4500 ATK in a shadow duel for example

 

[Overlord775]

ATK = Attack Potency if the monsters are real

it's an infinite loop, so it's "Attack x 3 x Infinity", which is not Transfinite

It litterally can't be game mechanics, as even if we assume the knighs were 10-B, the infinitelly multiplied attack would still be High 3-A

 

[Imaginym]

That & the Knights showed capacity to appear & act outside of Duels, despite opposing the Orichalcos, IIRC. Heck, when Dragon Timeaus was under Yugi's control while he had The Seal of the Orichalcos, it DESTROYED itself.
So if it would destroy itself rather than be empowered by the Seal of the Orichalcos, it's questionable that they would need the seal's power to manifest themselves; It seems like they have their own way if they can reject a power source that makes other monsters real.