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A Demon Warlord vs A Demon Slayer

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KarmodF

KarmodF

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The Doomslayer vs Gargos

Speed Equalized.

Both in character.

Takes place in Hell.

Doomslayer doesnt have any powerups (Quad Damage, Berserker, etc...)

Gargos: 0

The Doomslayer: 7 (MrKingOfNegativity, Hizack123, Intruvious, EliminatorVenom, TheNeoLancer, Badlander4 & DarkDragonMedeus.)

Inconclusive:
 
What Town level feat do the KI characters scale from again? I haven't managed to find it on my own.
 
Hold on, I found it.

The KI Verse scales around a 10.26 kiloton feat. The Doom Slayer one-shots beings who can withstand direct hits from a 28.75 kiloton weapon, and also carries that same weapon around like it's his baby. He's stronger than Gargos in the lifting department too (Class 1 VS 'Far higher' than Class K), so if the two of them end up in a grappling match, that there demon is getting flung around like a dodgeball.

This match is looking like it'll take a lot of analysis, so I'll come back later. I'm fully aware of Gargos's own advantages here, but for now it should probably be assumed that Doom outclasses him in strength and durability.
 
Going to have to give this to Gargos; Doomslayer may be much stronger, but Gargos has far superior hax in multiple varieties. Not only can he fly, he could also BFR Doomslayer via portal manipulation; his Spacial manipulation and Reality Warping are also quite OP here.
 
Hang on. This fight takes place specifically within Gargos's dimension? Or is the battlefield just some neutral version of Hell?

If it's the former, then yes, Gargos wins the fight. But if not, the outcome is far more debatable.
 
Is a neutral version of Hell, no advantage to any characters.

This is pretty much Haxx vs Stats, so be really analitic with the Conclusions.
 
Hmm this is a damn good one. On one hand Doomguy is clearer physically superior with far greater AP, on the other Gargos is smarter and posseses better Hax. I'd honestly give it to Gargos high-diff though due to his hax (BFR, Summoning, Mind Manipulation and Control, Illusions) And there's the fact he has fought absolutely physically imposing juggernauts (Eyedol) before using his smarts and Hax so i'd barely give it to Gargos. Though i could be persuaded to give it to Doomslayer.
 
Alright.

For starters, I'm going to assume Gargos's reality-warping is restricted to his dimension, since A) that's what it says on his profile and B) I haven't been shown any real evidence that contradicts that.

Anywho, Gargos's minions? They'll make great distractions, but they're going to die the moment they step to Doom. Like I said, he one-shots monsters who take hits from a gun that's almost three times more powerful than the feat the KI cast scale to, and I'm pretty sure Gargos's minions are weaker than the cast of KI. I'd need some info on Gargos's juggernauts, but it's also already been proven in-game that being bigger than Doom doesn't stop him from ripping you apart. Doom also has plenty of experience fighting enemies who summon minions (in the form of both the Arch-Vile and the Summoner), so he'll know enough to attack the source as well.

I won't ignore Gargos's advantages, though. That bastard can fly, and he's bringing good regen into the fight. Portal attacks put his ranged game well above Doom's, and he has more ways of actually harming Doom than vice-versa. (Doom only has melee attacks, the BFG and maybe the Gauss Cannon) I also don't know about an answer to the illusions.

I would actually argue that mind manipulation isn't that big of a factor. Despite Doom not having 'resistance to Mind Manipulation' on his profile, he completely (and regularly) ignores the negative side-effects of Hell's powerups, which include driving the user out of their mind. I feel like that should give him some sort of mental resistance that would help him deal with whatever Gargos's mind manip is.

Portal attacks would most likely be rendered useless if Doom managed to get in close, and it's completely within the latter's character to do that.

They've both got countless years of combat experience, so I won't argue about tactics here. Both of them also have experience fighting opponents similar to each other; Gargos has fought gun/energy weapon users in the form of Fulgore, and Doom (in addition to the thing about minion-summoning foes I mentioned) has fought beings that can fly in the form of the Lost Soul, the Revenant, the Summoner and the Cacodemon.

Super modes? Gargos's Instinct Mode is actually a bad thing. Heavy attacks from guys far weaker than Doom have punched through that armor, and Gargos reducing his mobility is basically him begging to take a BFG blast to the face. Meanwhile, if he's allowed to have it, the Berserker would give Doom an immense advantage in this, since it puts his physicals even further above Gargos's to a ridiculous degree. If Doom gets Quad Damage, then that's another really huge swing in his favor, since a data log in DOOM 2016's campaign actually describes the powerup as being a literal 4x boost to any weapon. (A guy who used it managed to decapitate three people with just a pocket knife.)

All in all, my only real concern here is whether or not an IC Gargos will just BFR Doom during the fight, since I don't think Doom has anything that'll bring him back into the battlefield if he gets flung out of it. If that's in Gargos's character, then my vote goes to him. If not though, then I think Doom takes it after a long and brutal fight. It's a battle of versatility VS sheer might, but in this particular case, Doom's power and experience would be enough to run through most of Gargos's options. Doom also loves aiming for the head when he kills things, so that would be enough to get past Gargos's Low-Mid regen.

(P.S.: I would pay good money to see this fight happen. The matchup is really good.)
 
Yeah, admittedly this is a very good match; and I'd say surviving in Hell for many years would grant him great resistance to soul manipulation and possibly slight resistance to mind manipulation; but yeah, BFR is pretty much Gargos's greatest weapon here. It's a really tough call, but I'm just barely leaning towards Gargos here.
 
I feel like BFR is more or less the only reliable thing Gargos has, tbh. If Gargos BFRs people while in-character, then basically:

  • The fight starts.
  • Gargos goes for melee attacks. (He's a fighting game character, so this should be his bread & butter)
  • Doom proceeds to beat the shit out of him.
  • Gargos BFRs, then goes off to heal his injuries.
Even if the two of them don't start with melee, the above is what the fight eventually boils down to. IF an IC Gargos BFRs his opponents, that is.
 
On second thought, that BFG could wear out Gargos before he decides to BFR; and yeah, I agree that his minions are just punching bags for Doomslayer. But his spacial manipulation is universal in range; although Doomslayer might be able to tank anything Gargos throughs at him. Additionally, if he had Berserker, he would pretty much one shot Gargos and it's debatable whether or not the BFG one shots; it would take at most 2 hits for BFG to finish him. Too bad Doomslayer doesn't have the unmaker, because that would have made things interesting. And yeah, Doomslayer does wreck him in CQC.

Gargos probably could use his spacial manipulation to at the very least stall Doomslayer; though, Doomslayer has nigh-infinite stamina so that might not help much. However, I suppose I should switch my vote to inconclusive.
 
Not really, he is a zoning fighter, he always goes for Portals even in CQC, even against characters like Jago he decided to bring him to an Unknown battleground and beat him to death only to humiliate him while he was at a deplorable state.
 
Even if a baseline BFG doesn't one-shot, a Quad Damage BFG most certainly will. A 4x amp for that thing means it's slinging 115 kilotons of power every time Doom pulls the trigger. And a Berserker-amped Doom is even stronger/more durable than that.

And yeah, that's another thing I forgot to add. Doom's stamina is insane compared to his opponent, and when you add that to his durability, it's safe to say that Gargos isn't putting him down easy. Even with spatial punches hitting him from everywhere, baseline Doom Slayer alone could power his way through the damage. And if he activates the Berserker, then Gargos might as well be hitting him with shoes.

I'm gonna go ahead and cast my vote for the Doom Slayer. If Gargos doesn't go for BFR soon enough, Doom's going to straight-up brutalize him.
 
I think I should restrict Berserker and Quad, the only thing I restrict was the Unmaker but since he already has the AP and Dura. it just seems unfair.
 
Forgot about It, but since Quad and Berserker are still present I should ban It for the best of the Match Up?
 
Yeah, I'd say go ahead. Doom's amps would put him way out of Gargos's league if he were allowed to have them.
 
Also, put my vote down for Doom Slayer for the reasons I gave. I'm still feeling like he has the edge here, even without his amps.
 
Well I seriously thinking about It because:

-Gargos defeated the entire cast.

-Nedded the Forces of at least 3 Super Spiritual Warriors + The rest of the cast that were Amped to oblivion thanks to Kan-Ra and still just merely win.

-He was able to vaporize every single human of a city and create a Portal the size of 2 Countries.

Thats why he is Ta least 7-C, likely higher, no to mention that at his peak is capable of facing Eyedol, previously he nedded to tired him Up by fighting the Chimeras and making him run trought the entire Astral Palne.
 
>'defeated the entire cast'

>'His defeat required the power of 3 Super Spiritual Warriors + the rest of the cast amped to oblivion'

>'vaporized every human in a city and created a portal the size of 2 countries'

I'd counter those with the fact that Doom Slayer is above every demon in his verse, and the fact that he managed to defeat The Titan, who was implied to be stronger than every other demon in the DOOMverse combined and whose head alone was this size. It isn't explained how he defeated The Titan, but considering the stats on Doom's arsenal, he most definitely didn't do it with a gun.
 
He hasnt really responded the previous question, he probably forgot he voted, btw so you are on Doomslayer so I can change the Inconclusive?.
 
P.S.: You should probably edit the thread post to say 'Doom Slayer's powerups are restricted' or something, just so anyone else who replies can see that right off the bat.
 
Just a heads up, I don't think Hellbeast1 voted twice; I think he changed his vote to Doomslayer. I also changed my vote to inconclusive for reasons above.
 
Sorry but I cant count the 2 votes for Doomguy, MrKingOfNegativity trates Gargos like a tougher Demon and doesnt take his hax, neither I can count the BFG argument since its too simple, Hellbeast vote cant be counted either since he didnt answer my question about his change, neither he confirm he was changing vote, prety much this is 0-0-0 as of now so please redo your votes so It can be counted.
 
Well I mean, we already sort of agreed that Doom could potentially wither Gargos with a BFG shot before he goes for BFR, and that BFR in and of itself is his only real chance in the fight anyway. (Assuming Gargos even BFRs people in fights while IC)

Doom regularly utilizes a powerup that drives people into a state of 'perpetual delirium' with only one use and remains completely fine, so that kind of mental strength would neuter whatever Gargos's mind-hax are. His spatial punches can most likely be shrugged off by Doom's sheer durability and stamina, his minions and his stone armor would be nothing to Doom's strength and the BFG's AP, and his flight is more or less a non-factor since Doom has proven time and time again that he can dominate flying beings.

Also, I recently ran into evidence that Doom is resistant to possession and soul manipulation.
 
-The BFG's bullet travel makes it very useless, Gargos flight is almost perfect he could evade it or BFR the bullet, he tends to BFR enemies in battle I said so like five post before.

-Please do not use stats that havent been proved, his flight isnt something like Cacoa or Summoner, Monster who come to around CQC range to attack.
 
Speed equalization equalizes projectiles as well. And being able to dodge the BFG once doesn't guarantee that he'll dodge it every single time, especially when it has a blast radius of 15 meters. (read: 49.2 ft)

Every DOOM protagonist has fought at least one flying enemy who was comparable to them in speed. Summoners are actually capable of flying faster than Doom can run, and Lost Souls are also capable of accelerating beyond his movement speed. The Mother Demon of DOOM 64 moves at the exact same speed as the player (even going as far as to dodge rockets and plasma fire during the fight), and DOOM 3's protagonist fought and defeated the Maledict, who flies via wings just like Gargos does.

I don't see why my vote should be discounted when I've provided a fairly solid case for the character I'm voting for. Hellbeast as well said 'Doomslayer FRA' ('for reasons above'), which is what a people do here when they're changing their votes. And Medeus outright said that he was switching to Inconclusive, so you can't say he wasn't being clear enough.
 
I'm guessing there's like plenty of open space in the battle field? In that case, that is a good point that Gargos could easily dodge the BFG even with speed equalized. It may have a massive blast radius, but it's a linear shot; not a homing projectile. And oh yeah, Gargos is capable of true flight? I know the Cacoa's and summoners mostly just levitate or move side to side from times; they don't fly with great versatility like the likes of DBZ characters do.

Though, Doomslayer may be physically much stronger, and could easily tank anything Gargos could throw at him given his durability and stamina; BFR is really the only thing that's going to work on DS. The mind and soul hax wouldn't work on DS because as @MrKing mentioned being trapped in Hell for Eons and the whole Berserk items not causing trouble for him.

Anyway, DS is probably not going to be landing many hits on Gargos, but Gargos using spatial punches and summoning minions aren't going to do Jack Schitt to DS. But I'm pretty sure Gargos does at least have the self conscious that he will have to resort to using BFR eventually. Tough call, but I'm going back to putting my vote on Gargos. But this is still one Hell of a good match.
 
-Thats what I said, Gargos could BFR the shots too and use them to travel back to Doomguy, use his minons as a cover and others, the BFG is useless unless he gets closer but his fighting style actually counter the BFG's bullet travel.

-Summoner and other Demons dont compare to Gargos, he had weapons that could damage them, those weapons dont really would be able to damage Gargos, remember this is Doomslayer so no DOOM 3 stats.

-You even said that If this is in character you are going for Gargos, you used stats that arent present in the Doomguy's profile like resistance to Mind Manip., cant talk about Hellbeast1, he didint talk about changing his vote and Medeus actually didnt gave a reason for inconclusive.
 
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