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Little Mac vs Ippo Manokunouchi

I am unsure about both, since they are similar weight classes. Ippo has more experience while mac probably has more power. I will stay inconclusive for now until more people vote since it can go either way.
 
https://youtu.be/EZfyU9zP2gw


This is a thing.

A thing I agree with.

To sum it up, Ippo would be naturally effective against Mac, since he's a swarmer and Mac's an outboxer. And on top of that, Ippo being shorter would also play into his favor, since the Dempsy Roll works best on Taller opponents. Lastly, Ippo has some good hax, being his Heart stopping punch.
 
If little mac is low end sub sonic he gets blitzes, if he is high end he doesn't, but Ippo still will hold a significant speed advantage. Also how much of a higher end of wall level is little Mac?
 
I've researched this fight like crazy, but ye these are basically my full opinions. Ippo wins via superior speed, greater arsenal, MUCH greater stamina and some unique attributes like being able to paralyze foes or stun them by stopping their heart. Since Giga Mac sacrifices speed and skill for more power, it'd be more a disadvantage than an advantage for Mac considering Ippo already had the lead in the areas Giga Mac weakens when compared to Base Mac. Ippo would have a harder time knocking out Giga Mac due to his greater strength and durability, but with his better speed, techniques, experience, and intelligence, he'd still win if Giga Mac was included.

Mac is literally everything Ippo has seen and faced before. He's nothing new. Especially when looking at Little Mac's stance. Mac is VERY clearly a right-handed outboxer using the Orthodox stance. He is NOT a swarmer like Death Battle labeled him in TJ VS Balrog. Maybe in Smash he uses a Swarmer stance, but Mac is most definitely a canonical outboxer. Right-handed outboxers are some of the easiest opponents Ippo faces since he can rush in and won't get thrown off rhythm like he would if Mac were left-handed. Meanwhile Ippo has lots of stuff Mac has NEVER seen before.

I'll elaborate a bit more on the stance. The Orthodox stance is very commonly used by out-boxers. Basically, you stand with your weaker side tilted towards your opponent so that way your dominant side has more space and room to build power when swinging. Mac uses this stance with his left side in front, meaning he is right handed. Mac's style of fighting revolves around waiting for his enemy to make the first move and mess up so he can punish. He is a textbook outboxer and would be a piece of cake for Ippo to beat.

UniVS Mini - Why Makunouchi Ippo beats Little Mac
UniVS Mini - Why Makunouchi Ippo beats Little Mac
 
Greater arsenal? I think you mean better techniques last I checked neither of them got no items on them. Also as I said above is Ippo high end wall level or low end same question goes for Little mac too
 
They should both be high end.

  • Mac has faced foes who punch through brick walls and can knock bulls into the sky.
  • Ippo has tanked punches like this, and can trade blows with people who have withstood punches fast enough to break the sound barrier.
2 ton punch 1
2 ton punch 2
 
Ippo´s techniques have been read before by many opponents, and his coach literally tells him to YAMATO DAMASHII and take punches head on.


Little Mac will win by simple reading, Ippo is literally unprepared for this.
 
Kyle Ramos said:
Ippo´s techniques have been read before by many opponents, and his coach literally tells him to YAMATO DAMASHII and take punches head on.

Little Mac will win by simple reading, Ippo is literally unprepared for this.
Click to expand...


true, little mac dont even need a coach when fighting mike tyson, a champion, so, depending on the coach, little mac really should win this
 
Indeed.

Ippo's couch literally doesnt care about Ippo. Its pretty much his fault Ippo has brain damage now and is probably punch drunk.

Not enough Oxygeeeen.
 
Kyle Ramos said:
Ippo´s techniques have been read before by many opponents, and his coach literally tells him to YAMATO DAMASHII and take punches head on.


Little Mac will win by simple reading, Ippo is literally unprepared for this.
Click to expand...
Ippo's techniques are unlike anything Mac has faced before, and Mac doesn't have any tricks to dish out in return. The only thing Mac would maybe be able to read are Ippo's feints due to his experience with Great Tiger. But those were whole body illusions, not afterimage punches or anything like Ippo's feints.

Ippo can take LOTS of punishment and fight even when he's unconscious. He can go for 6 rounds and wear down the stamina of Date-san who can go for 10. Mac at most can only go for 3 rounds and has a low stamina that runs out when taking to0 many hits and having too many punches blocked. Mac couldn't harm King Hippo through his sewer lid or damage Glass Joe through his headgear while Ippo can bruise and break bones through protective gear without knocking it up first.

Ippo has the advantages of...

  • Speed
  • Skill
  • Experience
  • Stamina
  • Techniques that can stun and paralyze
Mac is a blank slate and is nothing new for Ippo.

And as mentioned before, Mac is a textbook out-boxer who uses his right hand. These are the easiest foes for Ippo to beat, and if it were actual realistic boxing, he'd have this match in the bag considering their fighting styles alone.
 
Actually, after lookong into it more, I switch. All Ippo has is hyperbole with no actual indication that it's correct aside from other boxers. (but for the sake of the argument, let's give him the two ton punch, so wall level vs wall level)

First, speed is equalized, so no FTE Ippo to worry about, and afterimages shouldn't be a problem given that Mac is basically buffed here.

Argument that Mac has never seen anything like Ippo is irrelevant. Ippo was aware of most of his big opponents signature moves and still struggled, while Mac went in blind. If anything, Ippo has never seen anyone with the adaptability of Mac.

In short, speed equalization severly hurts Ippo here, to the point that it might change the outcome if he had it. So Mac takes it.
 
Well, guess I'll vote. Mac has higher AP and durability, and has more stamina. He's also smarter and more skilled. I think Ippo is taller, so the Dempsy Roll won't be as effective. Speed is not a factor, as it's equalized. Little Mac has dealt with opponents with "hax" before, such as Great Tiger. Little Mac's KO Punch is a game changer, considering it can one shot opponents much stronger than himself. Ippo has fought some strong opponents, but he has never fought someone with such willpower, or someone able to demolish a whole building and able to casually knock a bull hundreds of meters into the air. Never has he fought someone able to tank blows from a boxing glove mace. Meanwhile, Mac has dealt with people who try to confuse and rush him, and has beat someone who could create illusions of himself. If you've played the game, you'd know that Mac can go for more than 3 rounds. It's just that the match is over at that point. Finally, Mac being unable to harm King Hippo and Glass Joe is nothing more than game mechanics.
 
Noahkaismith said:
Well, guess I'll vote. Mac has higher AP and durability, and has more stamina. He's also smarter and more skilled. I think Ippo is taller, so the Dempsy Roll won't be as effective. Speed is not a factor, as it's equalized. Little Mac has dealt with opponents with "hax" before, such as Great Tiger. Little Mac's KO Punch is a game changer, considering it can one shot opponents much stronger than himself. Ippo has fought some strong opponents, but he has never fought someone with such willpower, or someone able to demolish a whole building and able to casually knock a bull hundreds of meters into the air. Never has he fought someone able to tank blows from a boxing glove mace. Meanwhile, Mac has dealt with people who try to confuse and rush him, and has beat someone who could create illusions of himself. If you've played the game, you'd know that Mac can go for more than 3 rounds. It's just that the match is over at that point. Finally, Mac being unable to harm King Hippo and Glass Joe is nothing more than game mechanics.
Click to expand...
The stats don't lie. Ippo is on Mac's level, likely above it. Just because Mac fights cartoony characters doesn't make a difference. Flashiness does not equal power. Don punching a bull, Mr. Sandman punching through a brick wall, It has all been calculated before here and didn't result in any upgrades.

The KO punch can NOT one-shot anyone. Even a 3-Star Punch doesn't one-shot Glass Joe. The only time it instantly knocks down enemies is while they taunt or at a specific moment. A.K.A. Game mechanics which you shunned when I brought up Hippo's sewer lid or Glass Joe's headgear. Mac always cannot continue after being knocked down 3 times even if they're in different rounds. Ippo can get back up after way more falls and again, can fight unconscious. So Ippo absolutely dominates in stamina. You can't assume Mac can go for much longer if we've never seen it.

Mac has never dealt with anyone who has hax. Great Tiger teleports and makes illusions, that's the full extent of it. It's just hitting. It may be hitting in a weird way, but it's still hitting. No special properties like the stunning or paralyzing Ippo can do.

Also Ippo is 5 feet 5 inches, Mac is 5 feet 7 inches, so there wouldn't be any problem with the Dempsey Roll

And to Pineappleguy, there's no reason to assume it's just hyperbole when we've had characters Ippo is equal to legitimately breaking the sound barrier with their punches.

Bringing up Mac beating Mike Tyson is also kind of a useless argument. What would he be on here? Tier 10-A? Maybe 9-C? Weaker than both AND with only Athletic or Peak Human speeds. Not much of an accomplishment.

Nevertheless, I guess the score now is...

  • Mac: 4
  • Ippo: 3
 
Ippo is not as skilled as most of you claim.

Not only his coach is super dumb compared to what little Doc Louis has said and would put him in a lot of trouble against someone as experienced in reading like Mac.

punch harder oxygen muscles yamato damashii remember your training inherited samurai blood

Not to mention that, like said before, Little Mac could easly read Ippo just like his final fight went, he was too predictable for World Champion Tier boxers that actually dodged punches.


Little Mac would just punch him brain dead if he just goes on like this, its a main plot point in HnI.
 
Kyle Ramos said:
Ippo is not as skilled as most of you claim.

Not only his coach is super dumb compared to what little Doc Louis has said and would put him in a lot of trouble against someone as experienced in reading like Mac.

punch harder oxygen muscles yamato damashii remember your training inherited samurai blood

Not to mention that, like said before, Little Mac could easly read Ippo just like his final fight went, he was too predictable for World Champion Tier boxers that actually dodged punches.


Little Mac would just punch him brain dead if he just goes on like this, its a main plot point in HnI.
Click to expand...
You're underestimating Ippo too much. Out of all his fights, he has only lost 3. The EXACT same amount Mac has lost. Not only that, but Mac lost them to opponents he had already faced before. Mac said he'd retire after losing three matches which is exactly what happens in Mac's last stand.

"Mac wins because Ippo's trainer gave bad advice once" isn't really a good reason for why Ippo would just fall apart in a fight against Mac.

Yeah Mac has beaten a World Champion and Ippo loses to World Champions in his verse. But "World Champion" is nothing more than a title. It has no value in determining a characters power. Take Chaos from Sonic and Beerus from Dragon Ball. Both are "deities of destruction" but it's pretty clear their power isn't the same.
 
How do you know he didnt lose at least one to a very, very restrained DK?


Not to mention it was stated that those opponents he beat before were stronger than before, so it is not really fair to dismiss them like that.


And no, Genki rambles on about taking people head onn and YAMATO DAMASHII every fight he has.


Hell, it was stated that kind of attitute is what forced Genji to go on retirement, it literally is destroying Ippo in each fight, Mac could easly take advantage of a foe that goes head on with nothing but OXYGEN MUSCLES and is literally told to take punches with his head.

Little mac just needs a KO punch.

Ippo will not dodge it because of his samurai blood oxygen thingy and will bite the dust.
 
I think you're blowing Ippo's recent loss WAY out of proportion as if he'd make the same mistake there in every fight. In fact Ippo's recent loss was due to him NOT listening to his trainer because he wanted to try out a new Dempsey Roll. This doesn't make Ippo lose every fight because he made a mistake.

Also there's no cutscenes or slides to suggest Mac's opponents get stronger between Title Defense and Mac's Last Stand. Yeah one of the losses could be to a very very very restrained DK, but another loss could've easily been to a weak-as-always Glass Joe.

The only attacks Mac has are jabs, hooks, and counters. Ippo has seen and developed techniques and skills specifically designed around avoiding those moves. All Mac could rely on is the Star Punch which again at 3-stars still isn't enough to instantly knock down Glass Joe the first time you meet him. There's no reason assume Ippo would go down even if he took it head on due to his superiority to Glass Joe and his incredibly larger stamina when compared to Mac himself.

You rely on 1 mistake for Ippo's loss, and 1 move for Mac's victory. Not a good combination if you ask me.

The score is also now...

  • Mac: 4
  • Ippo: 4
 
All of em became stronger in title defense, even Glass Joe. So, in the Last Stand, it is still lore wise that they became stronger.


Mac has experience in many opponents with very, very different movesets, i dont really see the importance of the number of moves in each fighter´s "arsenal" If Mac´s "plan" is dependant on counters.


And no, most of his losses are because of him taking punches head on and just going for the kill, which would make him a VERY easy fighter to exploit for Mac.


Seriously. even the dempsey roll would be a simple left right left right combination gameplay wise and very, very similar to Super Macho Man´s or the Indian guy´s signature moves.
 
Kyle Ramos said:
All of em became stronger in title defense, even Glass Joe. So, in the Last Stand, it is still lore wise that they became stronger.


Mac has experience in many opponents with very, very different movesets, i dont really see the importance of the number of moves in each fighter´s "arsenal" If Mac´s "plan" is dependant on counters.


And no, most of his losses are because of him taking punches head on and just going for the kill, which would make him a VERY easy fighter to exploit for Mac.


Seriously. even the dempsey roll would be a simple left right left right combination gameplay wise and very, very similar to Super Macho Man´s or the Indian guy´s signature moves.
Click to expand...

"Most of his losses" See what I mean? Blowing one mistake out of proportion. He has only lost 3 times and NONE of them had to do with just muscling through punches.

  • He lost to Date because he was just outclassed there.
  • Gonzales beat him with a surprise attack. Ippo didn't intend to take the punch and muscle through it.
  • Antonio beat him because Ippo was trying too hard to use one move.
Ippo knows all of Mac's moves, he even has all of Mac's moves aside from the star punch. Ippo has broken through people's guards with the Dempsey Roll and there's no reason Mac would be any different. Plus again that's still not all Ippo has. There's the Heartbreak Shot, and grazing Mac's chin will paralyze him from the waist down. Neither of those moves are like anything Mac has seen. Ippo is a completely new monster to Mac while Mac is just another Friday fight for Ippo.
 
Every new fight is a "monster" to Mac, but that is just so everyday it doesnt really matters.


I still think Mac is just too experienced in reading his opponent for someone so predictable as Ippo to manage.
 
Kyle Ramos said:
Every new fight is a "monster" to Mac, but that is just so everyday it doesnt really matters.


I still think Mac is just too experienced in reading his opponent for someone so predictable as Ippo to manage.
Click to expand...
Tip: Don't use the "He does this every day" argument. Death Battle used it for Guts and now we have wankers who believe he can beat any monster in fiction because he fights monsters all the time.

Ippo is far from predictable. Most of his fights have been won with surprises. Feints, surprise Dempsey rolls, saving new techniques for the right moment, surprise bursts of stamina, managing to fight while unconscious. Ippo is never short on surprises. Of course some are going to be able to see things coming, but that doesn't make him a predictable character.
 
You are the one saying, and i quote "Ippo is a completely new monster to Mac while Mac is just another Friday fight for Ippo."


Literally a "he does it everyday" argument.
 
Dude, i already told you mac´s moves dont matter if he is based on counter attacks, All that matters on his "plan" is having fast reactions to dodge blows.


This is not Smash 4 Mac, remember Mac heavely relies on dodging and responding to attacks.


The thing is, if Ippo is head on and wishes to pummel mac on the first round, he will get destroyed.


Mac literally capitalizes on aggresive opponents.


YAMATO DAMASHIIIIIII
 
I dunno who's winning, tbh. Both sides are effectively countering each other with each post, and there are fair points on both sides. (I say this while knowing both characters to some degree myself)

I haven't formed an opinion yet, so I'll wait to vote until I see more. This is like watching a boxing match in and of itself.
 
Kyle Ramos said:
Dude, i already told you mac´s moves dont matter if he is based on counter attacks, All that matters on his "plan" is having fast reactions to dodge blows.


This is not Smash 4 Mac, remember Mac heavely relies on dodging and responding to attacks.


The thing is, if Ippo is head on and wishes to pummel mac on the first round, he will get destroyed.


Mac literally capitalizes on aggresive opponents.


YAMATO DAMASHIIIIIII
Click to expand...
Now you're just repeating yourself. I think this is literally the 4th time I've had to remind you that Ippo was specifically trained on how to defend against counters. If Mac counters Ippo, then Ippo will just counter his counter. I know that's not something that has ever happened in Punch Out, but this isn't Punch Out, it's a VS Debate. Ippo has done it before and he sure as heck would be able to pull it off against Mac. And again I must say, Mac is a textbook out-boxer who is right-handed. Boxers of this style have been the EASIEST for Ippo to defeat.

It's rock, paper, scissors. Out boxers (Mac) beat Sluggers. Sluggers beat Swarmers/a.k.a. In-boxers (Ippo) and Swarmers beat Out-Boxers.

This isn't 100% set in stone, but the advantages are very clear. Just by their styles alone, Mac is at a disadvantage. Death Battle placed Mac as a Swarmer because of his style in smash 4 which directly contrasts his stance and style in canon.
 
Not to mention, if Ippo insists on doing the dempsey roll again and again, he will just get demolished even more by Mac.

For someone who relies on readinng like Mac, Ippo trying to do the same move over and over would pretty much give him an easy victory.
 
And, come on dude. These are fictional characters, donnt you use real life dynamics like death battle did in Combo vs Barlog.

And i disagree.

Ippo being agressive and repetitive gives Mac a LOT of advantages over him.

Just imagine.

He keeps throwing punches to mac and tries to do a dempsey roll every 5 seconds.

Mac would look into that patern in literal seconds.


AND EVEN WORSE.

If Ippo goes Oxygen, he will just let himself get hit in the face like a fool instead of dodging.

that is one FATAL mistake againnst Mac´s KO/Star Punch, Which would hit Ippo head on without much effort.


If Ippo goes agressive, this will end in a TKO in the first round.
 
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