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Little Mac vs Ippo Manokunouchi

Kyle Ramos said:
Not to mention, if Ippo insists on doing the dempsey roll again and again, he will just get demolished even more by Mac.

For someone who relies on readinng like Mac, Ippo trying to do the same move over and over would pretty much give him an easy victory.
Click to expand...
Again, relying on one mistake Ippo has made. His recent loss is the ONLY time where he has constantly tried to do the same attack over and over. Most of his victories have come from surprises. Ippo is a very unpredictable fighter. Sometimes he listens to his coach, sometimes he doesn't. Neither decisions sets in stone whether he'll win or lose. It's all based on his own techniques, experiences, and skills which have surpassed Mac's.

You keep saying "Ippo will do this over and over" or "Ippo is easy to read" without any proof. You keep relying on one mistake and basing his entire style around that when Ippo has never made the same mistake twice in combat.

Also please think of a full argument instead of posting several comments. It's tiring to have to keep refreshing the page because you post more while I'm trying to respond.
 
Thats even worse.

That is his latest fight, which means that Ippo is the most recent incarnation out there.

And sinnce he hasnt made a comeback or died since that fight, its a Ippo that still hasnt corrected such error.

Hell, if he relied on that against an opponent who surpassed him in strenght and height, imagine how he would react to Mac.


Not to menntion that if we made the dempsey roll into a punch out move, it would just be a quick dodge right dodge left dodge right attack.


Mac wins this if Ippo goes Oxygen and yamato damashii.

The only way to beat mac in a fair match (Aka mano a mano in a boxing ring) is to be UNPREDICTABLE, which Ippo clearly is not.
 
Kyle Ramos said:
Thats even worse.

That is his latest fight, which means that Ippo is the most recent incarnation out there.

And sinnce he hasnt made a comeback or died since that fight, its a Ippo that still hasnt corrected such error.

Hell, if he relied on that against an opponent who surpassed him in strenght and height, imagine how he would react to Mac.


Not to menntion that if we made the dempsey roll into a punch out move, it would just be a quick dodge right dodge left dodge right attack.


Mac wins this if Ippo goes Oxygen and yamato damashii.

The only way to beat mac in a fair match (Aka mano a mano in a boxing ring) is to be UNPREDICTABLE, which Ippo clearly is not.
Click to expand...
You are not listening...

  • 1. Yes Ippo lost his latest fight, but guess what. So did Mac. So by your logic, it'd be safe to assume that whatever mistake Mac made to lose to who could've possibly been Glass Joe, he'd make that same mistake in every fight, even against Ippo.
  • 2. I've already told you how Ippo isn't predictable. Why do you ignore it? Here I go again, forced to repeat it another time. Ippo has won most of his fights with surprises. New techniques, feints, bursts of stamina, being able to fight unconscious, yadda yadda yadda.
How many times are you going to make me say it before bringing up something new?
 
1.-Yeah, because that is his latest incarnation. For example, it was fair to say Goku would drop his guard when he was in the Ressurection F saga, but now, he has fixed that mistake with training and Ultra Instinct.

If Ippo doesnt die and makes a comeback without trying to yamato damashii dempsey roll every 5 seconds, then there is a difference in his plan.

2.-Ippo literally goes head on opponents and repeats dempsey roll every 5 seconds.

That would be his downfall against someone who relies on stuff like that like Mac.


Seriously dude, have you been reading what i write-? All of what you say has already been debunked in the previous walls of text.


Yamato...


DAMASHIIIIII
 
Kyle Ramos said:
1.-Yeah, because that is his latest incarnation. For example, it was fair to say Goku would drop his guard when he was in the Ressurection F saga, but now, he has fixed that mistake with training and Ultra Instinct.

If Ippo doesnt die and makes a comeback without trying to yamato damashii dempsey roll every 5 seconds, then there is a difference in his plan.


2.-Ippo literally goes head on opponents and repeats dempsey roll every 5 seconds.

That would be his downfall against someone who relies on stuff like that like Mac.


Seriously dude, have you been reading what i write-? All of what you say has already been debunked in the previous walls of text.


Yamato...


DAMASHIIIIII
Click to expand...
  • 1. Ippo doesn't have just one plan. He adapts to whatever foe he is facing. And Mac's set of techniques are all ones Ippo has already been trained to deal with. Why would he go head on and... "Yamato Damashi" as you spam- I mean say... when he already knows how to fight someone like Mac. In fact Little Mac is the one who only has one style and plan.
To quote Doc Louis: "Dodge, dodge, dodge and counter, you got that?"

Ippo knows how to handle counters and Mac will not be able to dodge everything with Ippo's superior stamina, experience, and techniques.

"Letting his guard down" is a mistake Goku had consistently made up to that point and was part of his character. Ippo only made his mistake because he wanted to show-off a new version of the Dempsey Roll. He wouldn't have anything new specifically for his fight with Mac to try out in a match against Mac so there'd be no reason for him to make that mistake.

  • 2. What the heck...? He absolutely does not go head on all the time and repeat Dempsey Roll every 5 seconds. Have you even read/seen Hajime no Ippo? Or did you just skim through his most recent loss for all of your... "arguments." Your statement here is entirely false.
 
Its an example.

And calling the oposition´s arguments "spam" is a very good sign you are running out of Oxygen.


Really, i dont know what to say, everything you just said was already adressed on previous walls of text, but i would love to punch you drunk some more.


It was literally stated that technique and the terrible couching from Genji is what is getting Ippo Brain Damage, which would easly make him punch drunk, so his precision is not the same as before.


And, like i said, if Ippo goes aggresive and puts his face when getting punnched to death, he will super lose.

Mac is a counter based fighter that relies on aggresive opponents, and i would love to see you try to say Ippo is not aggresive
 
Kyle Ramos said:
Its an example.

And calling the oposition´s arguments "spam" is a very good sign you are running out of Oxygen.


Really, i dont know what to say, everything you just said was already adressed on previous walls of text, but i would love to punch you drunk some more.


It was literally stated that technique and the terrible couching from Genji is what is getting Ippo Brain Damage, which would easly make him punch drunk, so his precision is not the same as before.


And, like i said, if Ippo goes aggresive and puts his face when getting punnched to death, he will super lose.

Mac is a counter based fighter that relies on aggresive opponents, and i would love to see you try to say Ippo is not aggresive
Click to expand...
When you put "Yamato DAMASHIIIIIII" in every other comment surrounded by walls of blank text, it IS spamming whether I point it out during the argument or not.

Ippo's current state is not his maximum potential. Since you brought up DBZ before, you know what Cell's current state is? Dead... guess Mac can beat him too by your logic. You don't see me saying Mac losing his last 3 fights is a reason he'd lose against Ippo. Mac loses against Ippo because Ippo has a much superior stamina, a wider range of techniques, and a lot more skill and experience.

I am not denying that Ippo is aggressive. But aggressive does not equal predictable. And here I go repeating myself AGAIN because you can't listen. Here it's in bold text this time. Please read it.

Ippo knows how to counter counters. He had training specifically for countering counter attacks. Mac has never countered a counter or faced anyone who could. Ippo could easily counter Mac's counters. The move Mac relies on the most is something Ippo learned how to easily avoid early on in his career.
 
Ugh, see? You just repeat the same as above when i already adressed it on the first wall of text.


Ippo´s current state represents a state in his life where he still commits that mistake, if he later fixed that up then you´d have an argument, but you just cant take away someone´s weakness because "Ippo´s current state is not his maxinum potential".


Seriously, this is pretty much wanking.

Anyways, please do read the response above about countering Ippo, who has shown a very aggresive attitude on his fights and taking punches with his face and reply again.


If you just post the same comment over, then lets just agree to disagree.

aka. "Mac fra".
 
Kyle Ramos said:
Ugh, see? You just repeat the same as above when i already adressed it on the first wall of text.


Ippo´s current state represents a state in his life where he still commits that mistake, if he later fixed that up then you´d have an argument, but you just cant take away someone´s weakness because "Ippo´s current state is not his maxinum potential".


Seriously, this is pretty much wanking.

Anyways, please do read the response above about countering Ippo, who has shown a very aggresive attitude on his fights and taking punches with his face and reply again.


If you just post the same comment over, then lets just agree to disagree.

aka. "Mac fra".
Click to expand...
What do you mean where he "still commits the mistake" he only did it once because he wanted to show off a new version of the Dempsey Roll. In a fight against Mac, he'd have all the moves he currently has. We can't just make up a new move for him and force him into making that mistake again.

I'm only repeating the same thing because that's exactly what you're doing. You ignore all the points I have and repeat that "Ippo loses because he lost his last fight" while falsely claiming Ippo rushes in with no strategy. You're blatantly giving out false information.

Ippo would not purposefully let Mac hit him so he could muscle through it, Ippo would not fall for Mac's counters as Ippo has known how to handle those for a loooong time.

Literally your only argument is Ippo loses because he is aggressive, completely disregarding all the above points and examples I've given you. Mac is forced to be aggressive against Don Flamenco as he just taunts until Mac punches. Does Mac now lose a fight because he was aggressive?
 
I just read all this thread...

Leo's points seem more reasonable so voting Ippo. My opinion could change tho.
 
So the score is now at.

  • Mac: 4
  • Ippo: 5
  • Inconclusive: 2
I'm keeping track since the OP forgot to add my vote for Ippo last time he updated the score.
 
I think I have my vote ready now.

I'll start off by saying the whole point about Ippo always taking blows with his head is only half-right. Yes, Kamogawa is a mediocre trainer, and one who stresses that "strength is above techniques" or some other dumb shit like that. But Ippo isn't exactly a fool in the ring. He's done his fair share of blocking and dodging, and part of why he learned the Dempsey Roll to begin with was so that he could dodge and attack at the same time. (Reminder that he kept hitting his head on a park structure while practicing it the first time, effectively doing so over and over until he was able to perform it in a manner that allowed him to slip through those metal bars without getting hurt)

The bit about Mac dealing with actual illusions not being enough to counter Ippo's feints is fairly wrong too, though. For one, trickery with actual illusions is >>>> trickery with physical mind games, 9 times out of 10. For two, I've personally seen both, and the two are functionally similar enough that Mac should be capable of dealing with Ippo's variant to a fairly solid extent. Not hard to decide that one at all.

However, at the end of the day, the key factor is experience and abilities, and Ippo has both of those in his corner. "Yamato Damashii" or not, the Heartbreak Shot and paralysis are major factors which Mac has never been exposed to before, and Ippo has indeed shown to beat plenty of outboxers in-canon. His record against them is really solid.

Gotta go with Ippo. It'd be a damn spectacular match, though.
 
Read the whole thing. I have a question before I vote.

How did Ippo lose his recent fight? Was he exhausted, or was he in peak condition?
 
Ippo lost his most recent fight because he was too focused on getting to show off a new variation of the Dempsey Roll. He was exhausted when he lost though as he kept letting himself take hits as he tried to wait for the right time to use it. This is a mistake he has never made before. Even when he had a new technique to show off in previous matches he didn't make the same mistakes. He was just way too focused on being a crowd pleaser in that one fight and it cost him the match.
 
Thanks. That sounds a lot to me like a one-time thing rather than a weakness. He wanted to show off a move.

In that case, voting Ippo for reasons above.
 
Yeah, I can confirm that such a thing isn't what he does normally. Even back when he was less experienced and had only just learned the Dempsey Roll, he made sure to save it until there was an opening when he used it in the ring for the first time.
 
Yup so

  • Mac: 4
  • Ippo: 7
  • Inconclusive: 1
Oof, all these late night voters. Glad Ippo is getting more votes though! Just want to make sure I don't miss a vote.

Everyone has that one fight they've researched waaaaaay more than any other fight. One fight that they just get hyped and overly passionate about. That's what Mac VS Ippo is for me.

I'm a MASSIVE Punch-Out fan and hadn't even heard of Hajime no Ippo for the longest time. I was absolutely sure Mac stomped because of the over the top boxers he fought. I assumed Ippo was only as strong as IRL boxers. But after that AMAZING full version of their One Minute Melee, I checked out Hajime no Ippo, fell in love with it and started to take notes and do super heavy research. The best kinds of VS Debates are ones where you adore both fighters to no end because then you really understand who they are, what they're capable of, and who you think is more likely to come out on top. And for me, My choice was Ippo.
 
Dunno about everyone else, but I formed my opinion on my own after reading both sides of the debate. Even made sure to point out a few bits I felt you had both incorrectly assessed.

No matter, though.
 
His last incarnation made that mistake, since that is the latest Ippo to date, its wank to remove that determination to show up that new technique. That is a weakness his opponent took advantage of, nothinng more, nothing less.

"Ippo loses because he lost his last fight" You are dismissing my arguments and puttinng words in my mouth. I said that would be a major factor in the outcome of the fight, BUT, i also mentioned how his combat strategy would give Mac an advantage, such as taking the opponent head on and refusing to dodge and the use of the same techniques over and over, but you conveniently ignored this fact.

Mac would lose if he was aggresive and his opponent´s technique is based on taking advantage of such aggresiveness, oh, just like this one as explained above.

Not to mention, Mac having to provoke Don Flamenco for the fight to continue is literally meaningless against Ippo, who would not just wait for Mac to attack like the Don would.


Removing weaknesses and pointing out aspects that do not apply against fighting Ippo.


And there you have it.
 
Sorry, but I'm not swayed.

It's been shown quite a few times that Ippo doesn't always take Kamogawa's oftentimes brainless advice. He's shown how to dodge effectively before and only "takes blows to the face" a handful of times when he needs to get in on someone who has him outplayed, and as far as that goes, he's defeated people like Ichiro Miyata far too many times to fall victim to Mac's pace.

Consistency is effectively the name of the game. One instance of na├»veté VS multiple instances of proper technique-management. Can't remove a history of one behavior due to a single example of another.

And if Mac gets hit with the Heartbreak Shot, he has nothing to save him. This is concrete.
 
"Mac´s pace"? His pace literally depends on the pace of the opponents. Mac never goes in unless the opponent waits for him, which is something Ippo has never done.

Now, with that out of the way.

Heartbreak working on Mac is the exact same as saying the KO/Star Punch taking down Ippo in one hit, this match should be determined by both fighter´s skills and plot, and, unlike Ippo, Mac is not getting Punch Drunk by blows to the head.


I still think that the fact that Ippo wont wait for Mac to attack first and is more times than not, shown to be aggresive in his aproach and against, most times than not, not willing to dodge, would give the win to Mac.
 
Not sure, tbh. I dunno if we have calcs for any of his feats at the moment.

He's supposedly capable of withstanding a two-ton punch, judging from a pair of scans I see above.
 
Ippo and Mac are around the same in wall level.

Mac can take on foes who can knock bulls into the air and punch through brick walls. Those have both been calced on another thread to be wall level. No upgrades. this one.

Ippo has withstood the two tons punch, not only surviving, but without even falling down as well. Plus he scales to Miyata who can throw sound-barrier breaking punches which would also result in some crazy force.

And since speed is equalized, it came down to their stamina, skills, and techniques which I believe Ippo has way more handfuls of compared to Mac.

Ignore that comment Ryan made about Democracy siding with whoever had the last word though. Kinda random. I saw his profile and he seems to get into a bit of trouble sometimes according to the message page for his profile. Granted, they were last year, but still. Dunno if he'll cause more if Ippo gets declared the official winner here, but let's keep an eye out.
 
There is no calc...? But do you really need it?

While yes! He destroyed an small building but he does it overtime, so that is clearly not a small building level maybe Room level but still no calc on it so Wall level make more sense.
 
Yes I need a calc (and nothing actually stated it was overtime, he didn't even move from that spot ), if little mac is stronger than this is pointless, I'd like to be certain,
 
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