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Princess Luna Stars level ?

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DodoNova2

DodoNova2

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Feat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=44&v=xDBExPJtlzc

At [0:40] & [1;40]

Nightmare Moon (while trapped within the moon itself) draws 4 stars at once towards the moon with telekinesis as we see at 0:39 then again at 1:40. Aside from the fact this gives high tiers ridiculous range for their magic as those stars are obviously much farther away than the moon is but what I'm asking is how much energy it would take to pull this off. Obviously star level at least but I just want to have a calc for the mlp high tiers since the original solar system one they had was deleted and this is the most impressive feat from one I've seen so far.

http://www.narutoforums.com/threads...re-sticky-part-1.956035/page-15#post-56571483
 
To be fair, the same could have been said about infinite dimensional DC Comics but now we have it.
 
I was going to make this revision thread. I feel it is nonsensical to say that something is an outlier when it is done casually by a character every day twice for 1,000 years. And it doesn't make sense to call Telekinesis "unquantifiable hax" when said Telekinesis is powered by the same magic that powers Celestia's energy beams.
 
Are we gonna start the revision here right now? In that case lemme get ready. I'll go gather all the feats.
 
I was also going to start a revision soon. Once I find the 4-B feat Celestia has in the comics that Matt mentioned earlier. But anyway, I guess I might as well put dow my points:

  • One of the biggest reasons they didn't get upgraded was some feat regarding a storm cloud not beig dispierced. This is a clear "Anti-Feat" that contradicts even lower tier feats displayed in the series. As early back as "Luna Eclipsed", Luna manipulates all the clouds in the entire sky just by talking, disperses them just by sighing and effortlessly moves them on multiple occasions. It's obviously a lowball feat/PIS.
  • Her Telekinesis power should logically scale to her standard magic power, which she used to battle Celestia in the past.
  • The argument that it's an outlier because the amount of environmental damage is just inane, I'm sorry. Not only do we separate AP and DC, it just wouldn't make sense from an animation and story telling point of view. Why would a battle between planet level characters end in the destruction of the planet? Unless it's a sci-fi setting or something, you'd have no stories to tell at that point.
 
@Pika.

I was referring to the one where Celestia turns someone into a constellation, which is 4-B on our scale, but the more the merrier.
 
I agree with Darkanine. Most of the reasonings against this do not seem very solid. Like using extreme low end outliers to try and argue things being high end outliers. Or the that the AoE of their fights isn't that high. Reasonings we adamantly dismiss for almost every other series.

Now perhaps these feats might not be legitamate because of something else. I wouldn't know. But the arguments I have heard have been really poor in my personal opinion.
 
"One of the biggest reasons they didn't get upgraded was some feat regarding a storm cloud not beig dispierced"

Wow, ******* really?

I can't believe people used this argument. I mean, it's not like one of the weakest, least magically powerful Unicorns in the whole series can do it:

https://youtu.be/OJM2g-3K2T0?t=83

Oh wait, she can.
 
Just going to point out that this particular feat is not Luna's doing. The stars are acting really weird, but Twilight specifically says they will "aid in her escape", not that NM will use the stars to escape. This is like when Aku was aided in his escape by a solar eclipse, or something of similar ilk. Yeah it's weird, but we aren't told the character did it.
 
@Ever

I don't have a problem with using the 5-A feats (I think I said this before?), but I don't really agree with 4-C for moving the sun on its preset path since it's specified that a small group of unicorns can do this, albeit using all their magic. Though if Tia has a 4-B feat, I'd be interested in that.
 
@Azzy

The thing is, we know absoutely nothing about these unicorns, just that they're there.
 
The Everlasting said:
@Azzy
The thing is, we know absoutely nothing about these unicorns, just that they're there.
Click to expand...
Yes, and that there were enough of them to do this literally every day until the sisters came along. They weren't ultra powerful or anything.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
@Ever
I don't have a problem with using the 5-A feats (I think I said this before?), but I don't really agree with 4-C for moving the sun on its preset path since it's specified that a small group of unicorns can do this, albeit using all their magic. Though if Tia has a 4-B feat, I'd be interested in that.
Click to expand...
First: As Ever pointed out, we know nothing about these unicorns.

Two: The unicorns did this as a collective. The ponies did harvest, the pegasi controlled the weather and the unicorns moved the sun and moon. It took an unicorn nation to do it. Celestia does it by herself. She scales.

Three: The Hearth's Warming Eve is the MLP equivalent of an easter sunday school play. You shouldn't consider it to be accurate in the slightest
 
@Matt

One: That doesn't matter if we know there are enough of them to do this almost indefinitely.

Two and Three: What are you talking about? This is about the stuff talked about in The Journal of the Two Sisters, which is from Celestia and Luna's perspective.

Also moving the sun is small potatoes if Tia actually has a straight up 4-B feat, which is why I want to see that. Because if that exists, I have zero qualms with that rating.
 
I presumed you were talking about how the ponies in Hearth's Warming Eve did it.

Regardless, you can't use a group of people to say that you can't scale to a single person who does it casually. Celestia does it by herself. Not with help from a large group.

Also, looking at The Journal of the Two Sisters, it seems to consider some of the Hearth's Warming Eve as canon, considering that the two stories have the same Founders of Equestria in it. So the unicorns who moved the sun and moon in it are no doubt all the unicorns as a collective, as implied.

And even if it was a group of 100 unicorn wizards, why would this matter? Fiction typically portrays combined power efforts as being much greater than individual.
 
Whether At least 5-A or 4-C/4-B is accepted, I'm fine.

On a side note, something I've wanted to bring up for awhile. Theirs a story arc i the comics where the Ponies (Twilight, Rainbow, Pinkie and Rarity) enter the "Story World" and gain the ability to make entire worlds and manipulate the "stories" within them. Said worlds are complete with space and the moon and even stars, and they can warp them at whim.

Scans #1, #2, #3, #4, #5.

Any idea on how to handle that?
 
@Matt

The journal states, if I remember correctly, that the unicorns who did this did so by using all their magic. Meaning they were left drained. Presumably, this would not be all unicorns, since they they would not have any magic left.

If the journal mentions the founders, that part of HWE is presumably correct, since the journal is written by Tia and Luna, who (obviously) lived through the events.

It matters because it throws that specific feat into question of being as impressive as it potentially could be, but as I said, if Tia just has straight up 4-B feats, it doesn't matter in the slightest.

@Dark

I mean, if the powers only function in that world/room, and work with anyone's imagination, presumably it wouldn't be a feat for the cast themselves.
 
@Matt

It definitely does. As an example, a host of no-name daemons in 40k can warp an entire solar system's general area, causing all kinds of reality warping havoc. However, this is never shown to be focused into their direct combat power, and normal weapons work fine against them. This means that while the feat definitely happened, it is probably not a good way to judge their tiering. Thus another character replicating this feat would also have to be questioned about scaling to it.

However, as I said, if Celestia has something that is a straight up 4-B combat feat (turning someone into a constellation) and it is all her, that is perfectly valid. I don't know what issue this is in though, so I don't know where to look.
 
I remember there was that huge thread in which we talked about MLP high tiers and ended up with a Large Planet Level feat for the Mane Six, and Discord had a FTL feat and a feat that could possibly be Universe Level, but none of them were added because this wiki apparently doesn't see the IDW comics as canon, so, the high tiers just became Large Mountain Level.
 
The Mane Six are definitely not Large Planet level. Well, except Twilight. She very, very easily scales to stuff like that.
 
IDW comics are canon actually, it's been confirmed recently.

Anyways, unicorns can train themselves to be as powerful as Alicorns, as seen with Starlight Glimmer, so what's stopping the group of unicorns from studying and training to do it as a group? ll we know is that there are unicorns, we have no idea how powerful they are so a group of them moving the Sun is not a sufficient reasoning to deny the 4-C feats. That's my opinion on the matter, anyways.
 
The Mane Six only scales with the Elements of Harmony ( sans Twilight for ...uhmm...obnvious reasons. ) or any power up comparable to that . Unless i am unaware of one of the Mane Six doing Large Planet Level things in the comics without power-ups... (Like mentioned, story world feats do not count unless showed they can use it outside of that world, which to my knowledge has not happened. ) . Anyways, Large Planet Level MLP seems fine to me, as well as 4-C and likely 4-B MLP. Everything said so far by Matt, Dark, and Pikachu seem legitimate to me. I knew they were being downgraded significantly. Just as usual not confident enough to mention anything about it.
 
Just want to point for non-Alicorn level characters, there is a decent amount of Tier 6 feats that could scale that we neglected merely due to percieved inconsistency.
 
@Pika

Do you mean the Island/Country feats or?

Regardless, virtually everyone's very lowest of low ends is well above Spike. For extremely obvious reasons.
 
Well yeah, there are some Island level feats in the show for higher-ends of the lower tier characters.
 
Well, having watched the entire MLPFIM series, I do not think that the ponies ever displayed raw destructive power feats beyond 8-C at best. The battle against Tirek cones to mind for example.

Then again, I suppose that the same can be said for plenty of feats in other fictions that we rate without any distinction between hax and regular combat, so if the rest of you agree that we should rate the alicorns as 4-C (or 4-A, if Luna moved 4 stars at once), and Discord and Tirek as 4-A, I suppose that I am outvoted.

That said, virtually any watcher of the show will likely think that we are insane for rating them so high, when they have never demonstrated anywhere near that kind of power for practical combat.
 
@Ant

Moving 4 stars at once would be 4-B, methinks.

And I don't think people disagreeing would particularly matter. Celestia and Luna moving the sun and moon, which are confirmed to be the size of real celestial objects both in the IDW Comic and by Word of God, is an established aspect of the lore and anyone can realize why the ponies are rated at Tier 4 once they see the ratings.

I am myself developing revisions for Castlevania, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people will find Low 2-C Belmonts insane when they first see it, but it is the accurate rating.
 
No, moving several stars at once, across their interstellar distances between each other, qualifies as 4-A according to our standards:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Celestial_Body_Feats

Anyway, I suppose that we will have to upgrade the MLP characters for consistency's sake then. However, it still feels extremely strange considering all of the low-tier problems that they constantly have troubles dealing with.
 
The ponies also have fairly casual 5-A feats in the comics to back this rating up as well. I thank you for at least bringing in that others think differently than you, Ant, and I still respect your opinion on the matter. Also Low 2-C Belmonts sounds awesome I love Castlevania.

Anyways, the stats I believe that would be changed for this:

4-B: The Alicorns (Celestia, Luna, Cadance, Twilight, Flurry Heart), Starlight Glimmer (Post-Season 5 Finale), Alicorn Amulet, Queen Chrysalis (with Love absorbed), Power of Love attack (used by Shining Armor & Princess Cadance) & Lord Tirek (Post-Shining Armor Absorbption).

At least 4-B: King Somba (effortlessly defeated Celestia & Luna at once in a similar manner to Discord, but without sufficient 4-A feats or scaling to higher-ups we can't give him any higher).

4-A: Discord, Demon Sunset, Midnight Sparkle, Daydream Shimmer, Elements of Harmony, Nightmare Rarity, Crystal Heart, Flurry Heart (when power fluctuates) & Lord Tirek (Post-Mane 6 Absorption)

At Least 4-A: Lord Tirek (Post-Discord Absorption, Full Power), Twilight Sparkle (All Alicorn Magic absorbed), The Dazzlings, Rainbow Power & Tantabus.

And some other misc. changes due to this:

Just about every character worth a damn would obtain 6-C durability (not AP) for the tanking of the explosion in the Season 6 Finale, which Dark did a calc on. This is further supported by Twilight, Applejack & Rainbow Dash tanking a Sonic Rainboom that was also calc'd at 6-C. Notably, this would give Twilight Sparle, when powered by the Secretariet Comet, a 6-C rating for easily defeating Queen Chrysalis in her base, which tanked the explosion.

From my knowledge, no other changes would be made.
 
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