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Disney Hercules Revisions

Matthew_Schroeder

Matthew_Schroeder

VS Battles
Retired
32,327
20,219
So... Disney's Hercules. Popular movie, has some pages here:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hercules_(Disney)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hades_(Disney)

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Zeus_(Disney)

... But they are a total mess. First of, they complete ignore all higher feats from the characters, and some of them are outright wrong. Hades is superior to mortal Hercules, and he survived a punch from God Hercules who is >>>>>> Mortal Herc.

But aside from that, let's talk feats.

So Zeus' profile claims that he grew weak and was stomped by the Titans. Well, that's completely wrong. That scene is complete PIS. It's so much PIS, that Zeus literally stomps the Titans less than 1 minute after he gets defeated by them.

Hercules vs Hades in the Olympus HD
Hercules vs Hades in the Olympus HD

Zeus gets trapped at 0:16. Is fred and then zaps the Titans at 0:55.

Moving on, we have Zeus' infamous feat of forming the Constellations at the end of the film.

HD A Star is Born (Full) - Hercules
HD A Star is Born (Full) - Hercules

At 1:05.

"Oh, Matthew, but we can't use that feat because the movie takes place in a mythological unrealistic world, with a flat earth and stars hanging out in a firmament."

Does it really? Because there's literally only one evidence for that in the film. A brief, 5 seconds scene of Morpheus blanketing the night over the sky:

Baby Hercules is turned mortal
Baby Hercules is turned mortal

At 0:21.

Meanwhile, the film's main plot revolves around a prophecy that will concretize when the planets align in their orbits. Yeeeah... Can't have that with a flat Earth:

Hercules - Hades in the Underworld HD
Hercules - Hades in the Underworld HD

At 2:25.

And near the end of the film, we get a better shot of the planets and they are indeed round, realistic planets:

Hercules - Rise Of The Titans HD
Hercules - Rise Of The Titans HD

So yeah, it makes no sense to ignore Zeus' feat. So at least he should be 4-B.

Oh, and there's more! That is something that any God of Olympus can do. How do I know? Because Phil said so.

Hercules meets Phil HD
Hercules meets Phil HD

At 2:40.

Phil: "Yeah, I had a dream once. I dreamed I was gonna train the greatest hero there ever was. So great, the gods would hang a picture of him in the stars... All across the sky."

And besides, it wouldn't make sense for Zeus to be 4-B and all the other gods and the Titans (Who are a threat to the gods) to be trillions of times weaker.

So in conclusion:

Zeus should be 4-B. He can casually stomp all of the Titans and create constellations.

Gods (including) Hades should be Possibly 4-B. They can apparently also create constellations, and shouldn't be much weaker than the gods. Titans would also scale since they can defeat the gods.

Prolly should also scale to Hercules since he defeated the Titans by sucking them into a tornado and hurling it to the far side of the Solar System. At least God Hercules should scale since he can stomp Hades easily, and is apparently the strongest god sans Zeus.

Oh, but I disagree Matthew. This seems far too higher than anything Hercules or the gods sans Zeus ever did.

Well, okay you sir. Then we can use another feat for Hercules, from episode 10 of the Cartoon, Hercules and the Prince of Thrace:

AtlasHercules
Look at that, Atlas lifting up the skies just like in Greek Mythology

DisneycanLift
And Herc can lift the sky too, just like in myth.

... So that would mean that anyone of importance would be High 6-A at least, scaling from Hercules.

Then again, the cartoon is completely contradictory when compared to the movie. Hades knows Hercules is alive as a teenager, Herc meets up all the Greek Heroes at one point or another, when the movie makes it clear they all died, and the cartoon has a flat Earth with Apollo pulling the sun, and the Earth legit being depicted as a flat square from space.

So I dunno, you guys be the judge.
 
hmm so would it be at least high 6-A possibly 4-B for hercules with everyone else being 4-B.

Anyway i agree with this
 
Maybe you should create a tabber for the cartoon version.

I also agree with the revision.
 
I agree with God-King. May be separate keys for movie and TV series versions. I'm on board with this.
 
I agree with all of the above. It's more than a little strange how this stuff wasn't accepted.
 
I'm against the upgrade to 4-A. The way the "constellation" was created makes the feat itself very ambigous, they look more like comets than anything else and they seem to be actually smaller than other stars, and again Zeus never stomped all the titans like you claim, he blew off Typhoon's head using his lightning bolts but that's really about it. Your statement talking about All the Gods replicating Zeus' feat is taken out of context, it simply says a picture will be made in the sky by the deities nothing about "Constellations" or Stars or anything like that, Hades and co. Have again no showings on this level in the totality of the movie, again so it would be considered an outlier.

Moving on: why is lifting the sky suddenly High 6-A?
 
@ItalianGuy

By definition, constellations are made of stars, nothing else. Calling them comets its flagrant downplaying and outright ridiculous. Zeus moved and/or created stars to form constellations. Literally every god and their mother can do that in Greek Mythology, and given Hades' threat to Olympus, he should be no different, and Hercules should also be the same given that he manhandled all of the Titans and Hades before chucking the former into another Solar System.

Zeus stomped them since he had them fleeing with a few lightning bolts and took them down with just a handful in the ancient past prior to the start of the movie.
 
From what I heard in an old Hercules revision, the cartoon series portrayed the Sun as a small, truck sized object. Make of that what you will.

As for lifting the Sky, the mass of the atmosphere is 5.1480 × 10^18 kg, so lifting that 1.9 Meters (assuming Herc's height) would only be in the Gigaton range (22 GT). If I'm missing anything, please let me know.

@ItalianGuy

Making a picture of someone in the sky defiantly seems to imply constellation movement. Only other thing I can think it could imply is cloud moving, but other feats and statements makes the former seem far more likely.
 
Did it mention if the constelations were made one star at a time or all at once? If it was 1 star at a time that just seems like a High 4-C to 4-B feat, though I could be wrong.
 
The clip Reppuzan linked just Zeus making it by moving several stars at MFTL+ speeds at once. Dunno if it would qualify as High 4-C or 4-B though. Dunno if it's high enough to be 4-A, but somewhere in the Tier 4 spectrum is at least confirmed.
 
@Dark

Zeus also created at least five additional stars and moved them into the constellation.
 
@Reppuzan "By definition, constellations are made of stars, nothing else" I already knew that, but you're applying real life logic in this verse and you assumed it works. "Calling them comets is flagrant downplay and ridiculous" Using big words isn't a way if refuting what I said, I'm merely pointing out that they do not appear like real life stars and the whole contestallion things comes from a misunderstanding of authorial intent. "Zeus moved and/or created stars to form constellations" It's clear you aren't sure about how the whole instance took place by looking at how you made your sentence, prove those are actually stars and not some random dots in the sky. Greek Mythology is a completely different fictional verse, just because Disney Hercules is based off Greek Mythology it doesn't mean they're as powerful as their original counterpart. Since we're at it why don't we upgrade Kratos to 4-A as well? Or any verse with Olympian deities in it? Except the gods in the movie are literally featless and all you have is a statement taken out of context, it's straight up wank.

Great, which means Zeus himself is fodder and needs his lightning bolts to pull off his feats, it doesn't even scale to anyone else then.
 
@ItalianGuy

Authorial Intent only goes so far on this wiki. Authors don't think of how much energy it takes to create a black hole, but we've given numerous characters high-ratings for such feats (i.e. Mega Ma). Similarly, creating and moving stars takes colossal amounts of energy.

We go by feats, not by what the author thinks, since more often than not they have no idea what sort of power level the feats entail.

As Matt explained at the beginning of the post, Zeus's defeat was basically a plot device for Herc to come up to Olympus, as it contradicts his previous and quickly followed defeat of the Titans in the movie.
 
I woke up now.

And yes, Italian, the constellation is made of stars, the movie has realistic planets and a realistic outer space, there's no other way around it. Zeus is moving stars.

Also, the Olympians in Greek Mythology are Universal Abstracts going by the high-end interpretations, so I'm not wanking.
 
@Reppuzan How does that refute said? Actually did you even read my comment? The whole constellation argument comes from a statement made by a dude talking about pictures in the sky, the word "constellation" was never brought up in the whole instance.

Except, Zeus could only defeat Typhoons only after receiving his lightning bolts back. Doesn't scale to his standard AP in any way shape or form. Actually, it should be noted that the sky itself does completely defy logic in the movie -> https://youtu.be/DFUlDCwUIU4 O.20 and that the stars only light up after a few seconds. It seems like they're rather big lamps in the sky than a celestial objects.
 
It just means that Zeus with lightning >>>>>> Casual Zeus making Hercules' constelation.

It doesn't mean Zeus is weak, just that he is far stronger.

Also, are you really going to use a symbolical 5 second clip?

Get real! The plot of the movie revolves around the PLANETS ALIGNING IN THEIR ORBITS, and those are real sphereical planets.

The Hercules movie takes place in a spherical Earth with a realistic space.
 
@Italian

You mean, aside from the fact that the show has an accurate cosmology with round planets, a sun, and a proper day-night cycle, those still aren't stars? That's really hard to believe.
 
You mean in the cartoon? Because that cartoon contradicts everything with the film's plot, as the OP states.
 
Which proves what? That the movie takes place in a fantasy world? There's also only 6 planets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV0nZZeTN04

They are spherical and floating in realistic space. They are not dots in the sky. Also the idea that stars are tiny dots in the sky is disingenous and false even going back to Ancient Greece.

https://todaslascosasdeanthony.com/2012/07/03/eratosthenes-earth-circumference/

Erastothenes measured the circumference of the Earth at 40,074 kilometers. That's literally only 66 kilometers away from the real size.

Around the same time, Aristachus did his own calculation on the size of the sun and moon and their distance to the Earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Sizes_and_Distances_(Aristarchus)

Though he was greatly wrong, he did reach the conclusion that the sun was 6.7 times larger than the Earth. And the greeks viewed the sun as a large star compared to the other stars (Which they believed were the celestial bodies furthest away from Earth, after Saturn).

So to suggest that creating constellations, even in a mythological sense, is putting dots in a sky blanket is asinine
 
In Kingdom Hearts, the Zeus constelation feat was calced at 4.22 Foe, which is Large Star level+. The characters are now rated at 4-B through the Celestial Body Feats standards, which is currently discussed.
 
The Hercules Constellation is very different in the movie than in Kingdom Hearts. Someone should count the number of stars in the movie too.

Nevermind, that's kind of impossible.
 
The cartoon would most likely count as secondary canon to the movie, and since the movie portrays the sun and planets in a realistic manner, it overrides the cartoon portrayal.

So, I guess 4-B or 4-A is the best course of action, but dunno which of the two would be accepted.
 
@Cano

It be really, really annoying to count differentiate the stars he created vs the stars that were already there. So It think Matt's suggestion of a basic 4-B is good enough.
 
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