Aizen Sousuke VS Kaguya Ootsutsuki

AppleLord · Nov 22, 2016

This should be interesting enough. EoS Aizen [1] meets with Kaguya [2] in her gravity dimension and decides to fight her on his own. Planet Busting is not allowed, otherwise this fight will lead to nowhere since both can BFR and come back.

Burning_Full_Fingers · Nov 22, 2016

Um, maybe you should equalize speed? Because Kaguya won't be able to touch Aizen at all.

This thread might generate a lot of controversy like the Sasuke vs Aizen thread.

AppleLord · Nov 22, 2016

If I equalize speed it will be a stomp on Kaguya's favor. Since she should be immune to illusions.

Burning_Full_Fingers · Nov 22, 2016

Yes, that should be the case but a lot of people are going to make arguments for Aizen centering around Kyōka Suigetsu regardless.

Also, IIRC speed was equalized in Madara vs Aizen and Madara's supposed to be immune to illusions too but Aizen somehow won the match. And the votes were 9-8 in favor of Madara. It might have been a mistake on the part of the admin except I'm missing something.

AppleLord · Nov 22, 2016

I don't know about that. We will see.

Amlad22 · Nov 23, 2016

Even with speed equalized this is a good fight. You have kaguya who in terms of raw power is small planet level and Aizen who is moon level but could potentially by small planet level since Yhwach has more scared of him rather than Ichigo. Ability wise Aizen's regen is enough to keep him alive against everything except maybe the ash bones and the etsb. However he has his own Arsenal of long range attacks with all the high level hado spells. Kaguya isn't very smart or good at fighting at all and Aizen will take advantage of this. if Kaguya can counter Kyoka that would be very helpful but what if Aizen traps zetsu in it? There goes Kaguya's combat partner. If Kyoka fails Aizen may even attempt to seal her by using the same seal Kisuke used on him. Honestly this match is so close for me. I'd say Aizen wins by sealing Kaguya, this is only if Kyoka doesn't work.

Burning_Full_Fingers · Nov 23, 2016

Those Kidō spells won't do anything to her at all. She's going to bitchslap it easier than Ichigo did.

Yeah Kaguya isn't good in combat at all but I guess that's what Black Zetsu is there for. Same for the intelligence issue. Kyōka Suigetsu isn't doing anything to Black Zetsu. He's not a normal person and Infinite Tsukuyomi didn't affect him either.

Isn't that Kidō spell created by Urahara? And doesn't it require prep? No way Aizen knows it. When it hit him, he was confused. Even if he knows it, I doubt he could seal Kaguya. Urahara had to wait until Aizen was weakened so the seal could work. Even then, it must have been temporary since Aizen was later sealed in that cool chair.

So I'm leaning to inconclusive because of their Regenerationn or Kaguya wins due to Infinite Tsukuyomi.

Amlad22 · Nov 23, 2016

Aizen is now in the same league as Kaguya. He was powerful enough to tank hits from Yhwach and had so much reiatsu he was considered a war potential because of it. Kyoka would work on Kaguya since it has been shown to work on the living and the dead. As long as you have reiatsu/chakra you'll get affected. Tsukuyomi on the other hand does not affect the dead. Aizen will remain ineffected. There are tons of seals that Aizen could try on Kaguya. He could do the one where he touches Kaguya's wrists and she explodes from the inside out

Damage3245 · Nov 23, 2016

Amlad22 said:
Aizen is now in the same league as Kaguya. He was powerful enough to tank hits from Yhwach and had so much reiatsu he was considered a war potential because of it. Kyoka would work on Kaguya since it has been shown to work on the living and the dead. As long as you have reiatsu/chakra you'll get affected. Tsukuyomi on the other hand does not affect the dead. Aizen will remain ineffected. There are tons of seals that Aizen could try on Kaguya. He could do the one where he touches Kaguya's wrists and she explodes from the inside out

1) Kaguya's attacks and Madara's attacks are not necessarily equal. Kaguya's All-Killing Ash Bones starts deconstructing the target after impact, which could potentially be a serious problem for Aizen.

2) If Reiatsu and Chakra are being treated as the same, then yes, Kyoka Suigetsu should affect Kaguya.

3) Saying Aizen is dead is getting into technicalities a bit. If he was born in Soul Society then it's a bit difficult to say he is truly dead. He is immortal which implies he is living in some sense. Since the fight is being treated - I assume - with Kaguya being able to see and interact with Aizen, then it makes sense to say he is alive.

4) That seal was developed and used by Urahara, not Aizen, and is effective only against Shinigam since it targets the Reiatsu vents in a Shinigami's wrists.

Amlad22 · Nov 23, 2016

Kaguya and madara are in the same league. Aizen can hurt both of them. And assuming chakra and reiatsu are the same Aizen should be considered the same as an edo. Kaguya won't be able to cast illusions on him. The seal wasn't developed by Urahara. Only the final spell that sealed him was because he actually stated it. Aizen should be able to perform everything else

Amlad22 · Nov 23, 2016

Kaguya and madara are in the same league. Aizen can hurt both of them. And assuming chakra and reiatsu are the same Aizen should be considered the same as an edo. Kaguya won't be able to cast illusions on him. The seal wasn't developed by Urahara. Only the final spell that sealed him was because he actually stated it. Aizen should be able to perform everything else

Damage3245 · Nov 23, 2016

Amlad22 said:
Kaguya and madara are in the same league. Aizen can hurt both of them. And assuming chakra and reiatsu are the same Aizen should be considered the same as an edo. Kaguya won't be able to cast illusions on him. The seal wasn't developed by Urahara. Only the final spell that sealed him was because he actually stated it. Aizen should be able to perform everything else

1) But Aizen isn't an Edo Reanimation. He shouldn't be immune to Kaguya's genjutsu.

2) You're right that Urahara didn't develop that seal, but he was the only one to use it. Even if Aizen could use it though, it would only be effective against Shinigami.

Amlad22 · Nov 23, 2016

We have to assume reiatsu and chakra are the same in these battles. And if we do that then the soul reapers won't be affected by the tsukiyomi since they are dead by bleach standards. Quincy and fullbring could be affected but not soul reapers and hollows

Also if we keep the fact that reiatsu is equal to chakra, the sealing spell that is effective on soul reapers would also be effective against Kaguya and her massively large pool of chakra

Burning_Full_Fingers · Nov 23, 2016

Aizen isn't as strong as Madara and Kaguya. At least in terms of AP. He's rated at 'At least Moon Level ' and they're both 'At least Small Planet'. It might be a conservative rating but that's what we have to use here.

His Kidō won't be affecting her since she can absorb them and considering that Ichigo easily destroyed his full incantation Hado #90 when they're both Country level, I don't see why Kaguya who's above Aizen's AP would be troubled by it.

Why won't it work on him? His illusions have worked on Shinigami and it's inferior to Infinite Tsukuyomi so why wouldn't it work? Kotoamatsukami also worked on Itachi and he's an Edo Tensei too.

Aizen's durability is at least 5-C while Kaguya's AP is at least Low 5-B. She can easily knock him out.

Sorry but I'll need proof that Aizen knows that Kidō that was used to seal him. Urahara mentioned that he was the one that created that Kidō specifically for Aizen. Even then, he had to wait until Aizen was sufficiently weakened for the spell to take effect. Considering that Aizen was later sealed in a chair, it just means that the spell is temporary.

Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness · Nov 23, 2016

When Aizen has a massive speed advantage over someone he does not seem to lose.

Aizen's immortality does mean something against most of Kaguya's attacks but not all of them considering Kaguya has techniques that can destory a person on a molecular level. For instance kaguya's All-killing Ash Bones.

Ks and speed is the only thing for Aizen.

Shadowbokunohero · Nov 23, 2016

im leaning towards kaguya . for reasons above ^

Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness · Nov 23, 2016

According to Kaguya's profile she has the same Regenerationn level as Aizen so debating immortality for each of them is a little bit pointless.

It took more than Naruto and Sasuke to take down Kaguya. It took a bit of Sakura, Kakashi and a bit of Obito to do it.

Damage3245 · Nov 23, 2016

Amlad22 said:
We have to assume reiatsu and chakra are the same in these battles. And if we do that then the soul reapers won't be affected by the tsukiyomi since they are dead by bleach standards. Quincy and fullbring could be affected but not soul reapers and hollows
Also if we keep the fact that reiatsu is equal to chakra, the sealing spell that is effective on soul reapers would also be effective against Kaguya and her massively large pool of chakra

If Reiatsu and Chakra are the same that doesn't change the fact that Aizen is not an Edo Reanimation. There is no proof he would have the same properties as them.

The sealing spell would not be effective since it only affects Soul Reapers. Kaguya is not a Soul Reaper.

Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness · Nov 23, 2016

Granted they were not all at 100 percent. Aizen is powerful but is it really safe to assume that it would take five people to take him out. Maybe, due to speed but that is it.

Basically both Aizen and Kaguya will attack each other until one character has the move that will finish the other one off. Aizen may get more attacks in because of speed but however Kaguya can afford to take those blows considering their Regenerationn is equal.

For Kaguya's reactions it maybe hard for Aizen to keep on consecutively blitzing her because she has three Dojutsu eyes, one of which is the most powerful in the verse and she has a very good sensing ability. Most likely beyond Naruto's sensing. But then again Naruto did blitz her by cutting off her arm so Aizen probably could too.

Final consensus: Who's got a powerful enough technique to put the other one down and if they both have a powerful enough technique who will think of using the technique first.

I need thinking on that. I'll be back.

AppleLord · Nov 23, 2016

Just to clarify things Aizen is a soul, edo's are souls inside a body. Both are dead. Unless, Infinite Tsukuyumi is been shown to affect souls, Aizen will be treated as a soul in Naruto because of verse equalization.

Amlad22 · Nov 23, 2016

Thank you. Aizen is immune from tsukiyomi. However Kaguya can still be put under Kyoka.

AppleLord · Nov 23, 2016

Bakudo #26 is as useful as a Limbo clone, yet nobody remembers it.

Ragazz · Nov 23, 2016

if ash bones hit aizen directly, he will die. aizen might or might not fk up kaguya with KS, but once he goes transformations, he forgets that he even has that ability.

Just to clarify things Aizen is a soul, edo's are souls inside a body. Both are dead. Unless, Infinite Tsukuyumi is been shown to affect souls, Aizen will be treated as a soul in Naruto because of verse equalization. - u could use another equalisation. aizen is as alive as any character and can be hurt and killed in the same ways as any alive person. edo tensei however, cannot, and they dont have real bodies, they dont bleed etc...

ProfessorKukui4Life · Nov 23, 2016

Aizen isnt immune to IT just because he is a soul. Generally speaking Souls in bleach are portrayed as no different then living beings. They arent intangible or anything like ghosts. In addition, nothing on his profile lists he is immune to Mind Manipulation so there is no reason or proof he is immune to it at all so it should not used as a factor here.

Damage3245 · Nov 23, 2016

AppleLord said:
Just to clarify things Aizen is a soul, edo's are souls inside a body. Both are dead. Unless, Infinite Tsukuyumi is been shown to affect souls, Aizen will be treated as a soul in Naruto because of verse equalization.

Every living person is a soul inside a body... There is no evidence Infinite Tsukuyomi does not target the dead exclusively. It has only been shown to not affect Edo Reanimations.

It's making a massive assumption to treat Shinigami as Edo Reanimations.

Even Shinigami are technically mortal as they can age (slowly) and die. They are not truly undead in the same sense as Edo Reanimations.

Shadowbokunohero · Nov 23, 2016

Anime4Life2020 said:
Aizen isnt immune to IT just because he is a soul. Generally speaking Souls in bleach are portrayed as no different then living beings. They arent intangible or anything like ghosts. In addition, nothing on his profile lists he is immune to Mind Manipulation so there is no reason or proof he is immune to it at all so it should not used as a factor here.

yeah i agree. rukia was kicked by a human form Ichigo . wasnt this because he had high reiatsu or something.. and if Reiatsu= chakra .. Kaguya should be able to do the same

Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness · Nov 23, 2016

Aizen's a soul yet he can destroy things in the physical world such as mountains. So in theory he should be effected by attacks that would come from the physical world.

The soul reaper intangibility thing is unselective and very arbitrary.

ProfessorKukui4Life · Nov 23, 2016

Souls in Bleach arent even intangible. As mentioned above Rukia in her SR form was able to be kicked by Ichigo before he even became a SR himself and Chad was capable of harming a Hollow with a pole too.

The only thing that separates Souls from humans in bleach is their presence since humans cant see them due to having shit levels of SP unless the Souls lower them down enough to be seeable. Other than that, both are really the exact same thing. They eat, they age, they grow, they tire, etc. which a real spirit shouldnt be limited to at all since a real spirit would be dead.

Burning_Full_Fingers · Nov 23, 2016

Though how exactly would Bakudo #26 be useful here? It's even less useful and efficient than Limbo which can't bother Kaguya in the first place.

AppleLord · Nov 23, 2016

Except for the fact that both Hollows and Shinigamis have been shown to phase through walls, with concentration, and Chad harming the hollow with the telephone pole was explain in the Fullbring Arc.

Second we already equalize that Kaguya can see him, and harm him without Reiatsu, now we had that he is alive so IT can work on him. That's three advantages of equalization in favor of Kaguya.

Third Soul Society is Heaven where the dead go after death, i pressume everyone forgot that important detail. Ichigo wasn't a normal human, he was half quincy. A race of spiritual beings, and he also explains before he meets Rukia that is been a while since he can interact with the dead, when he previously couldn't.

Now that the questions have been answered go on.

AppleLord · Nov 23, 2016

Uchihazinon said:
Aizen's a soul yet he can destroy things in the physical world such as mountains. So in theory he should be effected by attacks that would come from the physical world.

The soul reaper intangibility thing is unselective and very arbitrary.

Bruh, no one has die of old age in SS. The oldest person Yamamoto was 2,200 years old.

AppleLord · Nov 23, 2016

Ragazz said:
if ash bones hit aizen directly, he will die. aizen might or might not fk up kaguya with KS, but once he goes transformations, he forgets that he even has that ability.

Just to clarify things Aizen is a soul, edo's are souls inside a body. Both are dead. Unless, Infinite Tsukuyumi is been shown to affect souls, Aizen will be treated as a soul in Naruto because of verse equalization. - u could use another equalisation. aizen is as alive as any character and can be hurt and killed in the same ways as any alive person. edo tensei however, cannot, and they dont have real bodies, they dont bleed etc...

That's interesting. Why isn't that use on Limbo "clones".

Burning_Full_Fingers · Nov 23, 2016

Maybe they just have really long life spans. Else Shinigami would be immortal if they couldn't die.

Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness · Nov 23, 2016

What does not dying of old age have to do with Aizen being able to destroy things in the physical world even though he is a spirit.

Amlad22 · Nov 23, 2016

They defiantly aren't immortal since they have been shown to age. However they are souls. Dead humans. Whatever you want to call them. A soul reaper is the same thing as an edo.

Lord_Hades_Prince_Of_Darkness · Nov 23, 2016

That's interesting. Why isn't that use on Limbo "clones".

Because Aizen does not share the six paths power.

ProfessorKukui4Life · Nov 23, 2016

Soul Reapers are not immortal they just have lonegetivity like someone mentioned above. Otherwise Yammamoto would not be an old man and the SR's in the SS wouldnt look older at the end of the series, like Rukia when she became a captain.

AppleLord · Nov 23, 2016

That's interesting. Why isn't that use on Limbo "clones".

Because Aizen does not share the six paths power.

Exactly, it would be unfair if no one could harm them or seen them, when verses are equalize.

You already have three equalize things in Bleach so Kaguya can fight Aizen.

AppleLord · Nov 23, 2016

Anime4Life2020 said:
Soul Reapers are not immortal they just have lonegetivity like someone mentioned above. Otherwise Yammamoto would not be an old man and the SR's in the SS wouldnt look older at the end of the series, like Rukia when she became a captain.

No one is saying that they don't grow older. There has not been mention of someone dying of old age that's all. Bleach afterlife is base on Reincarnation. Is different from Naruto and "souls" that would be normal to you.

Damage3245 · Nov 23, 2016

Shinigami definitely aren't immortal since Aizen was specifically highlighted for being immortal as a result of fusing with the Hogyoku.

Equalizations aren't strict advantages; if you're going to make Reiatsu = Chakra which is just one equalization then is naturally follows that Kaguya can already see and interact with Aizen since she possesses Reiatsu.

That's not from 3 equalizations; that's from 1 equalization.

Shinigami also aren't undead; since they can bleed, have internal organs, can be victim to poison, etc. They're essentially living but on a different plane of existence. It just happens their plane of existence if the Bleach version of the afterlife.

Aizen Sousuke VS Kaguya Ootsutsuki

Similar threads