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Kenshiro vs Road Kamelot

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Hmmm kinda hard to said here, but I am leaning to Road due to her regen and insanity induce which not all characters of her tier has. Not to mention the haxs she has in possession too.
 
Ok, Star. If I were to vote - though by being the Op, mine wouldn't count - I'd go with Road as well.

When serious - meaning: Not messing around or giving chances to the opponent for sh*ts and giggles - her intangibility is pretty much passive/selective and works in a way that anything aimed at her is not actually being aimed at her (her profile pic illustrates that where she is pierced by the Innocence sword which should exorcize her "Dream" and reduce her to a normal human being with no powers... Only to pass right trough her because she "Is" herself but "Is not" herself). Somewhat similar to the Musou Tensei, but I'd say even more haxxed, defense wise, because it's like she's not where she actually is.

Say you see Road and use an attack against her. Unless it's the "actual" Road - that is, her Dream - or Road ALLOWS you to hit her, the attack will pass right through her and the effects/hax will not connect because you are aiming at the wrong Road. All the same, that wrong Road can attack you anyways.

Couple her regen with the fact that most of her hax are activated via thought and you take my meaning. Her skillset is full of deadly hax. Even her Soul Removal works with a thought and she doesn't need to make contact (the space around her changes color and engulfs everything, as she creates the pocket dimension removing the opponent's soul in the process). However, Kenshiro is very haxxed as well. Let's see what others have to say.
 
Kenshiro is very hax but road is also hax, she has low gody regen and with that i don't see how kenshiro is gonna put her down unless his void manipulation can overcome it, from what i understand void manipulation can allow you to erase things from existence and even timelines if you are strong enough, so with that you could kill someone with low godly regen if you erased them multiple timelines but i don't think kenshiro is that hax so i don't think he can put road down, unless he can somehow do such a thing and i don't know?

Road can just bfr or seal kenshiro to another dimension or break his mind in a dream world but seeing as how kenshiro has pocket dimension creation not sure if bfr would work on him or if she could break his mind seeing as kenshiro also as memory manipulation along with the pocket dimension creation, either road wins this or i can see this match being inconclusive.
 
@Celestial Remember though it saids "likely" on Kenshiro's profile meaning in character, he probably will not use the Void manipulation or even the pocket dimension creation from one of his techniques unless he could do a attempt to do it.
 
@Celestial If it erases things from existence, it would be his best bet. He would still have the problem of actually having to know where/who to hit to finish her of, lest he would erase a false Road out of existence while her Dream (basically, the concept/real form of Road) survives and just trolls him trough her manifestation.

He would actually have to hit the Road (pun not intended) in front of him and make the damage get trough to her "Dream" self, as she doesn't need to be expecting the attack for it to just phase trough her (was taken by surprise by the Sword of Exorcism and still didn't work despite hitting her). In fact, if he erases the Road in front of him out of existence, her Dream self will just manifestate again from her own Dream world.

Anyways, should I count your vote for "Inconclusive, leaning on Road" (meaning that, if a tie break happens, your vote will count for Road) or just go with Road as well?
 
@Star I don't know much on Kenshiro's Void Manipulation, however if he does have it he would most likely use it in this match if he has the chance, as both characters are bloodlusted - works both ways, as that reduces the chances of either side messing around. Road's activation of hax via thought, however, will be problematic.
 
Leaning towards road, but if someone with knowledge on kenshiro can explain exactly how his pocket dimension creation and void manipulation works i could be persuaded to go for inconclusive as i seriously doubt kenshiro has the capacity to erase people's consciousness or erase them from other realms and as you said road's dream self would still exist even if he erased the road in front of him anyway so i doubt he could put her down.
 
@Fate Yeah as more info is needed on Kenshiro regarding his Pocket Dimension Creation and Void Maniplaution. Better yet I gonna do some research involving this one.
 
Okay I find it: The ultimate secret technique of Hokuto Shin Ken, said to be the "Fist of the Blue Sky". From the Nyoninzo aura's palm comes an all-enveloping tōki that allows the two combatants to fight in a void of total nothingness. Until Liu Zongwu, none who witnessed Sōryü Tenra had lived to tell the tale.

Here it is the Void Manipulation that @Celestial mentioned though it seems it is not meant for combat purposes.
 
Actually, Soryu Tenra is on Kenshiro's profile.

  • Sōryü Tenra (ÞÆ╝Ú¥ìÕñ®þ¥à, Blue Dragon Heaven Silk): The ultimate secret technique of Hokuto Shin Ken, said to be the "Fist of the Blue Sky". From the Nyoninzo aura's palm comes an all-enveloping tōki that allows the two combatants to fight in a void of total nothingness. While in the Sonryu Tenra, the user cannot die until he has crossed the barrier of death, where one of them will be erased into nothingness if killed. It also nullifies all forms of aura fighting and protection, rendering the two fighters to fight on pure hand to hand skill alone. Until Liu Zongwu, none who witnessed Sōryü Tenra had lived to tell the tale. As the sole successor of Hokuto Shinken, it is implied he may know or learned this technique either from the previous successor Ryuken or when he learned the history of Hokuto Shinken and its successors in taiseiden, just like how Kasumi (his uncle) learned its history as well.
If he managed to trap Road on that and kill her inside it, it could probably finish her off... But again, only if he traps the real thing somehow before Road either haxxes or traps him herself. But I'd say it's a solid mean to win, though the chances of him pulling it off seem very small when I look at Road's own hax overall. Also the attack seems to require some time or movement, while those of Road are literally "think and it happens".
 
I dunno. It's on his profile and it's an implied skill (like Yhwach having the Sternritter abilities).

Anyways, while this gives Kenshiro a way of winning if he pulls it off (which is actually good as otherwise he would have literally no means of beating Road as far as I can see) it doesn't say anything about nullifying hax similar to those of Road.

Kenshiro could probably win if he killed the real Road while inside the Soryu Tenra, but that's not happening as I see it.

What I mean is, not only will it be hard to even catch Road with it (she has dimensional travel via thought, aside from the other aforementioned hax), I don't see her hax just being nullified even if she gets caught, otherwise it would be kinda NLF saying that Soryu Tenra will nullify every sort of hax there is out there. Also, they're both Bloodlusted, so, if Soryu Tenra takes more than a thought to activate, it would be way more likely that Kenshiro gets haxxed first.
 
Alright so I wanted to wait what others had to say about this debate, since I have very little knowledge on the verse. But see the obvious problem right now is roads regen and dimension.

I'm going to break down right now what each fighter has and what the outcome would most likely be, however my opinion will be at the end.

Alright in terms of strength we can right off the bat see Ken Dominates road by not a lot, but enough to know if he lands a good hit its not gunna be good, not much to argue their alongside durability, which will be useful given how road might not even be able to kill kenshiro(I will explain the later).

The biggest problem right now we are fax be is in terms of hax, immediately I can already see that kenshiros MT will not be able to affect road given her regen, now des that mean it's useless now, hardly it still has intangiblity, and unless she can affect it, I don't see her killing Ken from that.

Not to mention I'm not sure she will be able to tag Ken, as his godly skill and good precog will dodge Most of her attacks, now if some manage to land, again I don't se a problem given his durability and her AP. And from the scenes of her fighting Allen and from what I remember from the manga, her fighting style is very ranged and could be very predictable.

Now you could argue that she could fool Ken with her illusions. However Ken isn't new to illusions before, in fact he has been able to counter many of the ones that has faced him, her trapping him in the dimension will not surprise him and his keen senses and combat skill, not to mention precog will see where most of her attacks are coming and when to dodge, so her killing Ken in the long run is something I don't see.

The biggest problem right now is how WILL Ken kill her. eventually he will run out of tricks and not even MT will put her down. So in my opinion i do see him pulling out Soryu Tenra. Now as the successor to Hokuto Shinken, I know he most likely he could use this love for two reasons. 1.kasumi states [here] you will see that Ken can access the move on short notice. However given its nature, it's not a move he bust out normally. Within it like fate has published, they are in a GIANT aura dome made of pure Nothingness, within it Ken cannot die by normal means, kinda like road except the reason he can't is because within it their is a very small space in the center, called the barrier of death, once the two combatants enter this, only one can leave and whoever does first has their existence erased. Due to the fact that the Soryu Tenra exist in a place where I quote["Heaven and Earth don't exist"] ["we are all there is."]

This is where I argue it breaks the tie, within the dome both fighters are rendered to only H2H combat, because as he says "a fight should take place with no barriers or aura" so whoever is the truly most skilled combatant wins. And we can agree at least who is the better fighter, so this ONE possiblity Ken could use to end road forever. She can't avoid as it isn't a move that you can escape it's a giant upward explosion which actually does A LOT of damage when summoned(doesn't matter though lol). The radius of this done is as wide as a mountain if one needs pics I will show.

However there is still the option that it might not work, I don't know how low godly regen works, but if there is he off chance she can regen from that, then this is inconclusive fight, as neither can truly kill the each other, own with his speed,AP,dura,kill,and precog and intangiblity will save him from her grasp, but her regen is just too OP even for Ken.

So yah that's my opinion on this fight you may decide whether or not this is inconclusive or if ken can pull this off with Soryu Tenra. I will answer any and all equations regarding the move and Ken.
 
Excellent reasoning, Grudge. We really needed someone knowledgeable about Kenshiro to show that this is actually a way more balanced match than it looks like.

Well, since you clarified a lot more on Kenshiro's attacks, I'll clarify a little bit more on Road's too. Road hardly "directly" attacks someone when she's serious. Attacking directly (that is, via Physical attacks) is what Road does when she's playing around a lot.

I don't know if you remember her fight with Lavi but even there, while still pretty casual about the whole thing, she outrighted started the match with the Soul Removal + Pocket Dimension creation + Dream World Warping + Memory Manipulation combo.

If her intention was to kill Lavi, the match would have ended as soon as it started, as his empty body was right in front of her after the soul removal and she could destroy him. She decided to casually mind hax him, however - later on, though, as soon as she gets bloodlusted because of Allen stabbing Tiky, Lavi doesn't last long in her hands.

During all this time, his body was defenseless and cathatonic in front of her due to being empty. Her Dimensional Sealing and Mind Hax are also via thought. Just to make sure, how is the execution of Soryu Tenra? Like, Kenshiro needs to do some sort of movement, strike or does he think and it happens as well?

Because Road's Soul Removal/Dimensional Sealing/Pocket Dimension and so on simply engulfs everything whe she thinks on it .

Landing actual hits on Road won't be a problem because aside from the Regenerationn she also has passive/selective intangibility where, unless you hit her Dream self or she gives you a chance to hit her (something she usually does in character), she'll just no sell the attack and the properties as well, as it happened with Allen's sword. She was taken by surprise but no selled it anyway - not because she "resists" it, but because unless it hits her Dream self, it's like you simply missed . Physical damage is usually not a problem for Road, but she usually takes it to the face anyways for giggles (when in character).
 
Also, speed is equalized (can be unequalized if by chance it makes the match more fair). But with that being said, I'll put your vote on inconclusive then. If we need a tie break later on, your vote will be placed on Kenshiro. Is that ok?

Road: 2 (Starkiller, Celestial Pegasus)

Kenshiro: 0

Inconclusive: (Grudgeman, leaning on Kenshiro.)

EDIT: Also now that I think about it, these two have a bunch of similar powers, despite being entirely different characters, haha.
 
@fate lol I forgot to talk about her soul manipuation, however I do have an argument for that. If you read his profile you would know Ken has a bit of soul manipulation himself. Kenshiro has in fact a very powerful spirit. In his fight with Kaioh he and shachi were about to be killed, however from his nearly dead coma induced body his spirt cam out and fought for him, with this spirit his mere presence alone nearly killed Kaioh, and was able to deflect any projectile thrown at him(if you need too I can show you the scans). Due to his bloodline and mastery over his body and spirit he can fight with his spirit if it calls for it which it could if kamelot decides to remove his soul, and the cool thing is he won't be alone in this fight. Thanks to Museo tensei he can commune and summon the souls of precious fallen rivals which includes 14 different fighters to help fight with him and protect him. So I. A soul battle this will be a 15 to one fight, and thrust me these fighters are just as strong as Ken.

Mind hax and illusions are weird thing to decide, I'm not sure what she can do to Ken that can affect him, he's become engulfed in the sadness and love of all his dead friends and loved ones, illusions and hypnotism don't work on him Really that well(one fat warlord who manipulated others win hypnotism to rise to power, tried to hypo teased Ken but he jsut sat their and yawned, it happens to him twice) however her illusions are probably far greater than anything he's dealt with but I just done see how useful it will be. If she has like crazy ***** down the mind hax then this could be a problem, Ken has lost all his memory(to the post he didn't remember a single thought,person or his own name) but he was still able to use hokuto Shinken due to how subconsciously trained he is.

Soryu Tenra was summoned by a giant goddess hand which then explained to an explosion. But that was how Kasumi did it, and while Ken could summon that way, I can only imagine him just creating the giant, upward explosions. It's like roads dimesions creation, he can do it whenever he likes
 
@Grudge So there is a requirement of summoning this technique, the Soryu Tenra? I think Road is not gonna let that happen as they are both bloodlusted here.
 
Starkiller215 said:
@Grudge So there is a requirement of summoning this technique, the Soryu Tenra? I think Road is not gonna let that happen as they are both bloodlusted here.
Click to expand...
Not really a requirement p, it's not like summoning a spell, or a ritual it's like any other attacks except On a much larger scale,and trust me Ken bloodlusted won't be holding back any trick and will fight or the absolute death to win, even in spirit. This isn't an attack that could be avoided really.
 
@Grudgemn How exactly is he gonna counter her dimensional travels as she could get out of there with a dimension travel? Also assuming that even if she is in there, we not automatically assume it will negate all her haxs she has in her possession.
 
Well, the thing is... Road on her dimension is a Reality Warper and extremely profficient at screwing memories as well (heck, now they look even more similar. While Kenshiro summons his friends in spirit, she makes Lavi FIGHT all of his comrades - quite literally the entire Black Order - inside her Dream world while mind/memory haxxing).

Now I kinda imagined Road making Kenshiro's friends to try and kill him only for Kenshiro to call his own friends... Epic stuff.

And Road can exist in both her Dream World and the actual world at the same time (meaning she would remove the soul and still be with Kenshiro's body in one place while fighting his spirit in the Dream World if she successfully used her thing). But maybe Kenshiro's spirit would still be fighting Dream Road even if his body perishes, so I think that counts.

Considering that Dream Road also has to be found in her dimension, can appear/disappear anywhere in it and retains her regen, all that I realize from this is that it would be one hell of a battle for both of them, indeed. But I think most of their powers are explained by now. They have good counters for various things the other has to use and deadly powers on their arsenal as well. Let's see what others have to say.
 
@starkiller she could very much escape, she jsut can't use any energy projectiles to attack while in his dome. However since this is a blood last fight, she will try to kill him most likely there not knowing the consequences, once she enters the barrier of death ken just needs to land one solid blow to end her keep in mind. And his body is still more durable than anything she can throw.
 
@Grudge I see. Also the User also could die if he also crossed the barrier of death as well and that is if she could land a hit on him which by the way speed is equalized as the OP mentioned.

Edit: Also see her having dimensional seals as well.

Edit: Well both of them have MHS, but which one is faster exactly?
 
Starkiller215 said:
@Grudge I see. Also the User also could die if he also crossed the barrier of death as well and that is a big fat IF she could land a hit on him which by the way speed is equalized as the OP mentioned.
Click to expand...
Yah that's the downside of soryu Tenra, he could die, however within the ST it's truly a matter of combat skill and Durabilty. She has Nothing to physically de sorry him due to difference in AP and Durabilty, and Kens skill would be way to much for her. Plus like fate said, she tends to let people hit her sicne she knows she will regen, big mistake of course. So if they fight H2H in the center Ken will win for being the better fighter.
 
Starkiller215 said:
@Grudgemn How exactly is he gonna counter her dimensional travels as she could get out of there with a dimension travel? Also assuming that even if she is in there, we not automatically assume it will negate all her haxs she has in her possession.
Click to expand...
/\ Also this is true though, as Road can move trough dimensions with or without the ark. Meaning: She has her powers and she has the Ark for interdimensional travel. Even if we assume her hax get sealed (kinda NLF, really as we haven't seen it sealing things like that), she would still have the ark as well to get the hell out of there. Actually she was the one who downloaded the original ark (kinda lika an update). And cut the connections between dimensions leaving the ark to fade into nothingness. Yet, after that, she could STILL move trough dimensions to leave the place that was fading into non-existence.

EDIT: The whole Noah's ark arc in D.Gray-Man revolves around the exorcists using one of the keys infused with Road's power to get out of the Ark before it gets erased from existence so she actually has a feat of leaving a dimension which was already disconnected from the outside world and doomed to non existence.
 
Grudgeman1706 said:
Plus like fate said, she tends to let people hit her sicne she knows she will regen, big mistake of course. So if they fight H2H in the center Ken will win for being the better fighter.
Click to expand...
She only does that in character, though, not bloodlusted. And that's assuming both that real Road gets in the dome and that her hax will be sealed. But anyways, I'll just agree to disagree. Like I said, your reasoning was very good and much appreciated on the clarification for Kenshiro.
 
@fate oh no no, she still has her dimensional powers and what not, the ST isn't a total anti power place, that would be NLF. Truth be told I dont know how she will be affected by the ST in terms of her powers. When kasumi Kenshiro used it on liu they stop using aura attacks and went with pure H2H combat but I can still see her using long ranged attacks, doesn't Change the outcome, and if she tries to kill him without crossing the barrier she won't, he's deathless until he crosses the barrier.
 
The reason I think she could still get out of ST even if she is the one who actually gets caught first is that she doesn't need it to even have an exit. She can just create it quite literally out of nowhere. ...And taking the scans, yeah, she has the feat of escaping a place that faded into nothingness with her powers.Even I didn't remember that one.

The feat is: By making the download , Road has cut all the connections the old Ark had with dimensions. It will be swallowed between dimensions and cease to exist . The Ark isnot connected to dimensions anymore . There's no escape... Until Tyki appears with a key, infused with Road's power, which can actually create an exit and that's the last hope for the exorcists to escape the Ark.

Aside from that, the Ark actually vanishes into nothingness entirely later on and Road is shown to have left it trough her dimensional door right after .

Going from this, I'm pretty certain she could just dimensional warp away even if caught in Soryu Tenra, since she escaped something that literally faded into nothingness while having no connectios with dimensions at all.
 
Anyways,

Road: 2 (Starkiller, Celestial Pegasus)

Kenshiro: 0

Inconclusive: 2 (Grudgeman, leaning on Kenshiro. Huesito88)
 
I have to say, whatever the result, I doubt we'll ever see another tier 7 match with as many hax as this one on both sides. XD
 
Having seen the arguments grudge has presented and what fate said in reply i vote for this being inconclusive as neither can put the other down.

This is a very good match, props to fate for creating it.
 
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