Syn Shenron Downgrade

AKM sama · Mar 16, 2020

This was brought up somewhere before but got lost in time. Syn Shenron is rated as universal because of scaling down from Omega Shenron who was going to destroy the universe by his Minus Energy Power Ball.

Although, a problem I have with this is that the universe was not going to be destroyed by an omnidirectional blast. The energy concentrated in the Minus Energy Power Ball was going to gradually spread throughout the universe decaying it over a long period of time so the inverse square law is applicable here. The Minus Energy Power Ball only had enough energy as the universe itself, making it baseline in terms of a DB universe (which is around 8 times bigger than normal + kaioshin realm).

Meaning, Syn Shenron who is 10x (or more) weaker than Omega would be multi-galaxy level, along with the rest who scale. That would be the safer end instead of assuming his minus energy was gonna destroy something in a 40x bigger volume mainly composed of nothing.

DarkDragonMedeus · Mar 16, 2020

Omega Shenron is clearly 3-A FRA, however, I'm fine with his base Syn Shenron form getting downgraded to 3-B same with various others who were scaled if any.

Adem_Warlock69 · Mar 16, 2020

I agree with the Syn Downgrade

Super_Saiyan_God_Julian · Mar 16, 2020

Maybe we could utilize "At least Multi-Galaxy level" for Syn Shenro, due to the fact that he wasn't that far off from Universal Omega Shenron?

This would scale to Limits Surpassed SSJ4 Goku as well.

Omegas03 · Mar 16, 2020

DB universe is 3x IRL one?

Omega would be 3x Baseline, Syn would be 3/10 Universe lvl.

Wouldn't Surpassed Limits SSJ4 Goku be possibly Multi Galaxy+ as IIRC he stomped Syn? Anyways I agree

XSOULOFCINDERX · Mar 16, 2020

Seems Legit. Alright, agreed FRA.

AKM sama · Mar 17, 2020

Bump.

DarkDragonMedeus · Mar 17, 2020

Actually, Kaizenshuu says it's infinite in size, so he should be High 3-A

Super_Saiyan_God_Julian · Mar 17, 2020

Maybe both of them (Syn and SSJ4 Goku) could be either "At least Multi-Galaxy level" or simply "Multi-Galaxy level+" for being dangerously close to Omega Shenron's Universe level.

This also takes into consideration that DB's Universe is above baseline Universal, as stated above by Omegas03

Omegas03 · Mar 17, 2020

Wouldn't Chou 3-B+ get downgraded to simply 3-B as well?

Zamasu_Chan · Mar 17, 2020

Omegas03 said:
DB universe is 3x IRL one?
Omega would be 3x Baseline, Syn would be 3/10 Universe lvl.

Wouldn't Surpassed Limits SSJ4 Goku be possibly Multi Galaxy+ as IIRC he stomped Syn? Anyways I agree

4.4 actually. The living realm has the universe and the demon realm parallel to it and the afterlife is at least the size of the living realm and the realm of the Kai is 1/10 the entire globe.

AKM sama · Mar 17, 2020

Doesn't the calc put it at more than that, like 8x?

DarkDragonMedeus · Mar 18, 2020

Yeah, there's been a calc that gets good results above baseline.

AKM sama · Mar 18, 2020

Super Saiyan God Julian said:
Maybe both of them (Syn and SSJ4 Goku) could be either "At least Multi-Galaxy level" or simply "Multi-Galaxy level+" for being dangerously close to Omega Shenron's Universe level.

I'd prefer the latter.

Omegas03 · Mar 18, 2020

Omegas03 said:
Wouldn't Chou 3-B+ get downgraded to simply 3-B as well?

.

AKM sama · Mar 18, 2020

Omegas03 · Mar 18, 2020

I thought they were 3-B+ only because the Universe size was 110x Baseline which is no longer the case? Characters such as Jiren and Beerus are Baseline by scaling to their verse universe size which they can bust so idk if Vegeta can be in 3-B+ but I am not sure.

AKM sama · Mar 18, 2020

The 110x was only for the anime where Beerus was going to destroy the universe from Earth, which is somewhere along the edge. It doesn't apply to the manga. However, it is still much bigger in comparison so I think the rating should stay.

Super_Saiyan_God_Julian · Mar 18, 2020

So what you are saying is that Syn Shenron should remain 3-A then?

AKM sama · Mar 18, 2020

No I was talking about Chou's 3-B+ rating. Syn Shenron and the likes should still be downgraded to 3-B+.

DarkDragonMedeus · Mar 18, 2020

Yeah, this is about Syn Shenron from GT, no one from Chou

Firestorm808 · Mar 18, 2020

I wouldn't consider destroying the universe within an hour or so a long time.

I'll rewatch the subbed scene again to clarify the context.

DarkDragonMedeus · Mar 18, 2020

It is a 3-A feat regardless of timeframe as it's a single attack with enough compressed energy to oneshot the universe.

Firestorm808 · Mar 18, 2020

True.

Firestorm808 · Mar 18, 2020

Just to be clear, we agree that destroying a universe that is about 40x larger in volume than a baseline universe takes way more than 40x baseline universal energy.

Doorinmyhouse · Mar 19, 2020

@DarkDragonMedeus, so if a single attack is capable of destroying a universe sized 3-D area in say 2 months, would it still be 3-A? And also, if a single attack is capable of destroying thousands of universes, each with seperated space-times, in a single attack, but in a very long timeframe like say 2 months again, would it still be 2-B?

DarkDragonMedeus · Mar 19, 2020

If it's just one omnidirectional explosion that's literally wiping out every planet and star in the universe, it would still be 3-A. However, I doubt it would take that long considering how energy on that level typically works.

Ionliosite · Mar 19, 2020

Yeah, I agree with 3-B+ One-Star Dragon.

CaptainSparkz · Mar 19, 2020

Syn Shenron: 4.3 to 11x baseline Universe Level

Omega Shenron: 43 to 110x baseline Universe Level

AKM sama · Mar 19, 2020

Again, that value is only for the anime where the destruction was going to happen from the edge with an omnidirectional blast.

I guess, I could start making the changes now.

DarkDragonMedeus · Mar 19, 2020

Well, Toeiverse still has Earth and Milky Way located in the North quadrant of the Universe, just that it's not assumed Omega shenron's also covers the afterlife. Unlike in Dragon Ball Super where the Afterlife is in turn far bigger than the mortal universe.

ByAsura · Mar 19, 2020

AKM sama said:
The 110x was only for the anime where Beerus was going to destroy the universe from Earth, which is somewhere along the edge. It doesn't apply to the manga. However, it is still much bigger in comparison so I think the rating should stay.

Actually, it does. Frieza's empire is also implied to be much further into the cosmos than Earth.

This profile honestly needs a few revisions, but I'll get into that later and in a different thread.

AKM sama · Mar 19, 2020

I meant the 110x baseline rating doesn't apply to the manga because of difference in how the feats are performed. I know the universe size still applies.

ByAsura · Mar 19, 2020

Firestorm808 · Mar 19, 2020

I rewatched the GT episodes and categorized the statements and the subjects.

DBGT - Episode 60
- Omega Shenron's Minus Energy Ball
  - Omega: Evil Dragons, give me your power! This Power Ball is made up of the heavily condensed minus energy of the Dragon Balls, as well as the hatred of the Evil Dragons!
  - Uub: It's no use. No matter where we run, once an energy ball with as much incredibly condensed power as that hits something, the Earth... will be destroyed!
  - Gogeta: At the moment I kicked it, I used the energy within my body to convert the minus energy of the Power Ball to plus."
DBGT - Episode 62
- Omega Shenron's Ambient Overflowing Minus Energy
  - Omega: I will lay waste to the whole universe with my minus power!
  - Old Kai: If he [Omega Shenron] is not defeated, and the Dragon Balls are not decontaminated, then the minus energy overflowing from them will envelop the whole Earth, and then, at the end, the Earth itself will become decayed. No, it's worse than just that... Before long, the minus energy inundating the Earth will erode nearby worlds, one after another, and soon the entire galaxy will spoil and be gone.
  - Kai: T-then, this Kaioshin Realm as well...?
  - Old Kai: Mm-hmmm, we will not be spared either.
DBGT - Episode 63
- Omega Shenron's weaker Minus Energy Balls
  - Omega: I'm going to blow the whole Earth away at once!
  - Omega: Even at this size, there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to blow up the Earth!
  - Omega: Goku! Begone, together with the rest of the Earth!
  - Uub: You say you're going to bust up the Earth?!
- Omega Shenron's Ambient Overflowing Minus Energy
  - But now, my minus energy is going to envelop the whole Earth, and it will disintegrate!"

To Summarize:

Omega Shenron will destroy the universe some time after "soon" just by existing.
A full-power Minus Energy Ball should be the shortcut.

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