TTGL downgrade

Just finished the anime + the movies and saw the profiles and they all are trash about the god tiers. But let's sum all the issues

They aren't High 1-C
Let's see the main reason why they are counted as 11-D

Here are the scans used.

Actually as we can see the 10th and 11th dimensions being described as "dimensional universes", so that's not 11-D but just the 10th and 11th universe.

"But they are described with a different set of dimensional axes"

Seriously? So 3-D people ON THE EARTH could actually see 11-D robots fighting each other and even hear what they say? That's definitely another proof of them not being 11-D.

Is even funny and contradictory, as Anti Spiral on its profile has Type 10 Large Size and even STTGL has still Type 8 Large Size, the profiles are even confusionary and an huuuge mess.

"But they have Super Spiral Universe inside TTGL"

Not only Super Spiral Universe being 11-D was debunked, but also they were fighting inside it so that statement lacks sense, Anti Spiral and TTGL were fighting inside TTGL? Easly nope.


Agree: 6 (Nerd1435, XBlake123, BlackDarkness679, RM97, InfiniteSped, YuriAkuto )

Neutral: 1 (Tony di bugalu)

Disagree: 14 (Ogbunabali, Dienomite22, ZeroTC01, Aurzod, Oblivion Of The Endless, Overlord775, XSOULOFCINDERX, Theuser789, DatOneWeeb, MacMar002, Riseti, Maverick Zero X, Sadistic Sleuth, Ultima Reality)

The New Tier
My proposal on the new tier is replacing all the High 1-C ratings with Low 2-C ratings.

The Arc-Gurren could already break the Space-Time with just a punch and that's baseline Low 2-C.

This should give to Arc-Gurren and whoever scales from it "At Least Low 2-C" ratings (I'll make a blog for the scaling if this gets accepted).


Agree: 2 (XBlake123, BlackDarkness679 )

Neutral: 1 (Maverick Zero X)

Disagree: 4 (Nerd1435, InfiniteSped, YuriAkuto, Dienomite22)


Speed changes
For the speed the Immensurable speed for the Super Galaxy GL seems more Time Manipulation due to attacking different points of time, also the Immensurable for moving in the "11-D" space should be replaced with MFTL+ (26 quadrilions FTL ).


Agree: 3 (BlackDarkness679, YuriAkuto, Qawsedf234)

Neutral: 1 (XBlake123, Maverick Zero X)

Disagree:

Hax issues
They all come from nowhere, let's analyze the profiles and see which abilities are to remove and why.


Simon the Digger
>Resurrection

False

>Quantum Manipulation

When did he use that?

>Power Mimicry (Can replicate the abilities of their opponent in its own fashion)

That's mecha only and they can just have other abilities from absorbing other mechas

>Gravity Manipulation

False

>Metaphysics Manipulation

No one has showed that iirc

>Higher-Dimensional Manipulation

Already debunked so false

>Can create entire universes and dimensions

Where?

>Instant Time Travel

Seriously?

>Body Creation

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. NO"

>Mecha Creation

Still wondering when he did that

>Power Bestowal (Was able to give the other members of Dai Gurren the ability to Resist the Extradimensional Labyrinth)

That was Kamina's spirit who saved them, the reason why AS didn't used that again is because Plot Armor

About the Resistances

>To Electricity Manipulation (Can take electrical attacks from the Muganns)

Link is dead

>To Power Absorption (Was able to survive in the Spiral Field Death Generator, which was constantly draining his energy and crushing them via increasing the density of the space around it, via increasing his power to match the draining, though it took significant effort on his part.)

He was busy about being the motor of the Super Galaxy GL, so everyone inside that is resistant to that? No

>To Mind Manipulation (Was able to escape the Extradimensional Labyrinth)

Already explained to the Power Bestowal part

>Gravity and Pressure Resistance

A resistance to a resistance? Also I've already explained to the Power Absorption part.


Kamina
Nothing too bad there, just a clarify on the Regenerationn and we're fine


Yoko Littner and Viral
>Regenerationn

Again, specify it

>Reality Warping

When?

>Metaphysics Manipulation

When?

Also they miss almost all the Gunmen abilities, which we'll discuss


Nia Teppeli
Kinda decent, remove the Reality Warping and Aura since they got no proof on that.


Kittan Bachika
>Reality Warping (Fused Arc Gurren Lagann's drill to King Kittans hand)

...wtf...


Lordgenome
>FTL

From when this is an ability?

>Spatial Manipulation

False

>Reactive Evolution

Where?

>Transmutation, Matter Manipulation, Technopathy

Again, when?

>potentially Cosmic Awareness (Simon was shown to have a similar power when the Anti-Spiral told him of the Spiral Nemesis)

Except that Simon hasn't that, also that on AS page is counted as Illusion Creation


The Anti-Spiral
Here we have a looooooooot of work.


>Large Size (Type 10)

Already debunked that

>Telepathy (Talks to Simon before his death and before first making contact with Team Dai-Gurren through his entire universe)

Reasons behind it are wrong as even here "talks without moving the mouth "

>Teleportation

When?

>Mind Manipulation (Via the Extradimensional Labyrinth)

You forgot even the Nia part when he mind haxed her badly

> Time Manipulation (Can attack from the past and future), Time Travel (Can move up and down the time axis)

They are likely the same thing, I purpose to change them to 1 ability " Time Manipulation (Can move and attack up and down in the time axis)

>Regenerationn (Low-Godly)

But he died because of an huge hole in his chest

>Type 3 Immortality

He never shown Regenerationn either

>Type 8 Immortality (reliant on the Anti-Spiral race)

Headcanon that even contradicts what happened and how it died

>Higher-Dimensional Manipulation

Already debunked

>Durability Negation

This shouldn't be added as ability iirc

>Subspace Travel

Why Time Manipulation is linked to it?

>Resurrection (can revive people from the dead, and alter their memories and personalities)

When did he revive someone?

>FTL, Metaphysics Manipulation

Debunked in other characters analysys

>Physical Law Manipulation

When?

>Cosmic Manipulation and Galaxy Attacks

Are they even abilities?


Lagan
>Invulnerability

Too bad that it got damaged from a lot of peeps


>Portal Creation, Subspace Travel, Dimensional Travel, Adaptation, Reactive Evolution, Mecha Creation

Just a question for all of these. When?


> Regenerationn (High-Mid), Space-Time Manipulation

When did it show that?


>Higher-Dimensional Existence

Already debunked.


>Resistance to Electricity, Absorption and Probability Manipulation (can land hits on the Granzeboma)


Too bad that AS doesen't have that on the profile


Gurren Lagan
>Adaptation, Reactive Evolution


Already debunked, when did it show them?


>Subspace Travel (Can tear open wormholes with Spiral Energy to cross large distances quickly)


I'd call that more Portal Creation, also why Time Manipulation is linked there?


>Resistance to Electricity Manipulation, Piloting


"Resistance to Piloting" what


>All of previous plus Reality Warping, Space-Time Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Resistance to Gravity Manipulation, Pressure and Absorption, Power Bestowal (Can give the other members of Team Dai-Gurren the ability to resist the Infinite Multiverse Labyrinth)


Already debunked (except Probability)


>Higher-Dimensional Existence

So it's 11-D after the fight? No


Arc-Gurren Lagan
>Space-Time Manipulation

When?

>Probability Manipulation

It's the TTGL who can do that, not the Arc

>FTL

Already debunked

>Adaptation

Just no

>Piloting

But is Simon that does it


Super Galaxy Gurren Lagan and above
> Invulnerability

False

>FTL

Already debunked

> Size Manipulation, Adaptation, Reactive Evolution,

When?


And is useless to show all the useless and fake abilities of TTGL and STTGL at this point

Agree: 4 (XBlake123, BlackDarkness679, Tony di bugalu, YuriAkuto)

Neutral: 2 (RM97, Maverick Zero X)

Disagree:

High 1-C is wack. I agree

>Again with the High 1-C

They're using brane cosmology, which fits the part of the tiering's "non-insignificant" part. So the rating stays.

We've been over this multiple times, there should be a note on the page at this point.

Ogbunabali said:

>Again with the High 1-C
They're using brane cosmology, which fits the part of the tiering's "non-insignificant" part. So the rating stays.

We've been over this multiple times, there should be a note on the page at this point.

Click to expand...

But nothing mentioned brane in the verse

They do though.

Ogbunabali said:

They do though.

Click to expand...

All I see is Lordgenome saying that they are between the membranes, also that was contradicted from the series as he even says that thay are just universes

Yes, that's where the name (mem)brane comes from. They are universes, dimensional universes, which is why they fit the "non-insignificant" part of the tiering system.

So an 11-D universe can be viewed from a portal to the earth where 3-D peeps can see them and even hear them?

I mean, there was a reason people were seeing them as transparent silhouettes, and not actually seeing them.

Maybe because they are distant as heck?

So it comes just from the name without any elaboration? That's vague AF

Pretty solid debunk. Especially on High 1-c

XBlake123 said:

Pretty solid debunk. Especially on High 1-c

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Do you agree with all?

I'm neutral on speed but yea, rest makes sense.

Makes sense, agree with these

Tony di bugalu said:

So it comes just from the name without any elaboration? That's vague AF

Click to expand...

Except it doesn't? They explain branes, and describe dimensional universes.

Pretty much agree with the Tiering debunk. Iirc some of the powers are legit like Simon's Resurrection which is basically him stated to be capable of reviving Nia and others (but he chooses not to). So I'm Neutral on powers.

RM97 said:

Pretty much agree with the Tiering debunk. Iirc some of the powers are legit like Simon's Resurrection which is basically him stated to be capable of reviving Nia and others (but he chooses not to). So I'm Neutral on powers.

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Simon said that it's impossible to ressurect people and IF that's possible that'd cause troubles to the next generations

Arc Dai Gurren can't destroy the space-time fabric, more like ot can only make a hole through it.

It does not imply Universal+ AP

Tony di bugalu said:

So it comes just from the name without any elaboration? That's vague AF

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Do you agree with tier debunk btw?

The High 1-C is sketchy, yeah. But that Arc feat isn't Low 2-C either. Breaking a bit of space-time doesn't count for Low 2-C, it's just hax shenanigans.

InfiniteSped said:

The High 1-C is sketchy, yeah. But that Arc feat isn't Low 2-C either. Breaking a bit of space-time doesn't count for Low 2-C, it's just hax shenanigans.

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Counted, + I'll separate the tier proposal from the votes

StrymULTRA said:

Do you agree with tier debunk btw?

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It makes sense to me but Ogbu said they explain shit so neutral on their tiers for now but I agree with the hax/abilities

The funny part arises when people start calling those Galaxies in the super spiral space as 10-D Galaxies when they are clearly 3D. Anti-spiral also made a big deal out of big bang storm

Inb4 11D Big Bang

There are a lot of things which totally go against the Anti-Spiral space being 11-D but let's just ignore them, take the few statements out of context and place them at High Complex Multiversal. Cause why not? Simon is GOAT and he deserves it

I agree with everything except Low 2-C Arc Dai Gurren

Yeah that isn't qualified for Low 2-C. It is not a quantifiable AP feat.

They should still be At least 3A considering that each of those super massive Galaxies contaim arguably as much mass as the Observable Universe.

It is also heavily implied one will turn into a Super massive Galaxy with the excess of Spiral energy, this shall lead to the mega Galaxies devouring each other and ending the Universe. This whole event is something which is taking place on a 3D-4D scale because of the Galaxies being 3D objects. There is no way the Universe could be 11-D if such an event can cause the end of it.

AP: At least Universal. Possibly Universal+ because of TTGL being capable of attacking at all points of space-time implying a 4D AP.

Speed: MFTL+. Probably can be made changes due to its Quantum manipulation.

Nerd1435 said:

Yeah that isn't qualified for Low 2-C. It is not a quantifiable AP feat.
They should still be At least 3A considering that each of those super massive Galaxies contaim arguably as much mass as the Observable Universe.

It is also heavily implied one will turn into a Super massive Galaxy with the excess of Spiral energy, this shall lead to the mega Galaxies devouring each other and ending the Universe. This whole event is something which is taking place on a 3D-4D scale because of the Galaxies being 3D objects. There is no way the Universe could be 11-D if such an event can cause the end of it.

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The TTGL should be already High 3-A as it scales from Anti Spiral that could create the Super Spiral space that's implied to be infinite though

Was it stated to be infinite in size? I don't remember that.

If yes, then at least High-3A should be fine.

Maverick Zero X said:

The OP makes sense.

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What you agree with? (counted your vote at everything btw)

I'm have some issues with this CRT for now but I'm not that familiar with the verse outside of the one time I watched it so I'll just post what I think regarding tiering. Low 2-C is a massive lowball.

Took me 5 minutes to search through past CRT's that talk about easily 2-A feats for TTGL: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1063980#113

https://imgur.com/Z7I8Lo7

("Trap of the multi-dimensional universe, last resort developed by the Anti-Spiral. It was a "multi-dimensional universe" that confines people to infinite possibilities. I might be there, the future I wanted to be like this. People will stand up before the possibility of spreading anywhere. That is exactly the Anti-Spiral trap that takes away the "will to live" from a person. The crews of the Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann who were confined in the enemy and multi-dimensional space. It deprives us of consciousness and drifts in the ocean of possibility of infinitely spreading. [...] No longer confused, the super spiral self of Simon integrated with the Multiversal Labyrinth and saved his comrades of Dai-Gurren from the infinite chain. Then, finally getting Nia back from the Anti-Spiral, Gurren Lagann emitted a new light, beginning Gurren Lagann's final evolution.")

The "Super Spiral Universe inside TTGL" refers to TTGL being stated to have the ability to create the super spiral universe inside itself, not that that's where TTGL and the Anti-Spiral were fighting in.

3-D beings seeing higher dimensional beings is not uncommon in fiction and isn't proof against 11-D. Many verses would be downgraded severely if this were the standard.

Dienomite22 said:

I'm have some issues with this CRT for now but I'm not that familiar with the verse outside of the one time I watched it so I'll just post what I think regarding tiering. Low 2-C is a massive lowball.
Took me 5 minutes to search through past CRT's that talk about easily 2-A feats for TTGL: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1063980#113

https://imgur.com/Z7I8Lo7

("Trap of the multi-dimensional universe, last resort developed by the Anti-Spiral. It was a "multi-dimensional universe" that confines people to infinite possibilities. I might be there, the future I wanted to be like this. People will stand up before the possibility of spreading anywhere. That is exactly the Anti-Spiral trap that takes away the "will to live" from a person. The crews of the Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann who were confined in the enemy and multi-dimensional space. It deprives us of consciousness and drifts in the ocean of possibility of infinitely spreading. [...] No longer confused, the super spiral self of Simon integrated with the Multiversal Labyrinth and saved his comrades of Dai-Gurren from the infinite chain. Then, finally getting Nia back from the Anti-Spiral, Gurren Lagann emitted a new light, beginning Gurren Lagann's final evolution.")

The "Super Spiral Universe inside TTGL" refers to TTGL being stated to have the ability to create the super spiral universe inside itself, not that that's where TTGL and the Anti-Spiral were fighting in.

3-D beings seeing higher dimensional beings is not uncommon in fiction and isn't proof against 11-D. Many verses would be downgraded severely if this were the standard.

Click to expand...

So is 2-A due to Simon "absorbing infinite universes"?

Seems iffy to me

>3-D beings seeing higher dimensional beings is not uncommon in fiction and isn't proof against 11-D. Many verses would be downgraded severely if this were the standard.

There are other reasons, you are saying that these galaxies are 11-D? Also Simon and co were NEVER stated to be Higher-D beings

Also I'd like to see the source of that translation

>Seems iffy to me

I mean it's blatantly stated so...

>There are other reasons, you are saying that these galaxies are 11-D?

Sure, they aren't normal galaxies anyway as they are made from the anti-spiral's super space. Doesn't matter either way because that isn't proof to debunk a higher-D tier.

>Also Simon and co were NEVER stated to be Higher-D beings

Wasn't the point but technically they are automatically for the feats.

>Also I'd like to see the source of that translation

https://imgur.com/Z7I8Lo7

I can't find the person who translated it but here is the scan. Translate away if you can. The show itself says roughly the same idea. I'll see if I can find a post that has the scans.

Dienomite22 said:

>Seems iffy to me
I mean it's blatantly stated so...

>There are other reasons, you are saying that these galaxies are 11-D?

Sure, they aren't normal galaxies anyway as they are made from the anti-spiral's super space. Doesn't matter either way because that isn't proof to debunk a higher-D tier.

>Also Simon and co were NEVER stated to be Higher-D beings

Wasn't the point but technically they are automatically for the feats.

>Also I'd like to see the source of that translation

https://imgur.com/Z7I8Lo7

I can't find the person who translated it but here is the scan. Translate away if you can. The show itself says roughly the same idea. I'll see if I can find a post that has the scans.

Click to expand...

>I mean it's blatantly stated so...

No, that blog says that but with no proof

>Sure, they aren't normal galaxies anyway as they are made from the anti-spiral's super space. Doesn't matter either way because that isn't proof to debunk a higher-D tier.

Too bad I've debunked it above

>Wasn't the point but technically they are automatically for the feats.

Nice assumption

Oh boy...is it the higher dimensional Galaxies again ?

Had to debunk this over and over again in many places after long discussions, now here as well? Nope.

>No, that blog says that but with no proof

"No longer confused, the super spiral self of Simon intergrated with the Multiversal Labyrinth and save his comrades of Dai-gurren from the infinite chain. Then, finally getting Nia back from the Anti Spiral, Gurren Lagann emitted a new light, beginning Gurren Lagann's final evolution."

>Too bad I've debunked it above

Link to post cause I can't find it.

>Nice assumption

You are aware that you don't have to be mentioned as a higher D being to be higher D right? Explain your meaning here.

Dienomite22 said:

>No, that blog says that but with no proof
"No longer confused, the super spiral self of Simon intergrated with the Multiversal Labyrinth and save his comrades of Dai-gurren from the infinite chain. Then, finally getting Nia back from the Anti Spiral, Gurren Lagann emitted a new light, beginning Gurren Lagann's final evolution."

>Too bad I've debunked it above

Link to post cause I can't find it.

>Nice assumption

You are aware that you don't have to be mentioned as a higher D being to be higher D right? Explain your meaning here.

Click to expand...

>No longer confused, the super spiral self of Simon intergrated with the Multiversal Labyrinth and save his comrades of Dai-gurren from the infinite chain. Then, finally getting Nia back from the Anti Spiral, Gurren Lagann emitted a new light, beginning Gurren Lagann's final evolution."

Proof of him doing that? I remember that all he does is viewing the possibilities before freeing himself from the Labyrinth


>You are aware that you don't have to be mentioned as a higher D being to be higher D right? Explain your meaning here.


You have to be confirmed as Higher-D, if not we get in some mess, like the fact that the "11-D Simon and Nia" were rescued from 3-D ships after the fight