Butters Loser Brackets: Round 5 Dick Gumshoe vs The Player

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

And so we finally get to this extremely weird battle between losers. The Player from School of Chaos, Submitted by Psychomaster35, going up against Dick Gumshoe, from the Ace Attorney series, Submitted by Whiteoak019

The Current Standings

Speed is equal

Both start in range

Dick Gumshoe scales notably above 220,556.44 Joules (He technically wasn't in the limit but I forgot to remove him. But since he has Gun and scales notably above, he shall stay due to my error)

The Player scales to 957,584.160094 Joules

That's all I believe. Let's get to it!

Dick Gumshoe: 2

The Player: 2

Inconclusive/Draw:

Jackythejack · Mar 4, 2020

G u n

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

Well, Both have guns.

Though at this point. Imma beg the police officer with several years of experience and actual training is going to have the much better shot than the Second grader with very little experience and no training. The rest of the haxs Player has to be up close or are kinda pointless as they have no power capability, so if they use it first. They are getting shot probably. That's what I think anyway

Jackythejack · Mar 4, 2020

I'll wait for psycho to come in

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

Sounds good

Jackythejack · Mar 4, 2020

The real question is if others will

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

I'll make them

Jackythejack · Mar 4, 2020

Suuuuuure-

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

I revived it last time like I said. I'm more than willing to do it agai

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

Oh, hello there!

Just a nitpick, but the Player is 1436.37624014 kilojoules (look at the very bottom).

Regarding the Player's experience... they are actually quite good despite being only second graders. They have learned martial arts and are nicely experienced in wielding weaponry. Ill admit Gumshoey is more experienced, but the Player has good experience as well.

And now for the best part: arsenal.

The Player has access to Strep Throat Bombs, poisonous bombs that when you breathe into them, it can easily make someone sick. They also have the Pain and Power Launchers, both weapons which can fire projectiles of whatever is stuffed in there, one of which are homing missiles, something Gumshoe will have a hard time avoiding.

LS does not even matter, as both will do a range battle, especially if the player were to wield guns as a first resort.

And finally... the Player has fought police and even the military before, plus, being officers, they may be easily way more experienced than the Player, so the Player would easily keep up with even experienced officers like Richard.

I vote the Player, but this may be a stomp.

~~And so, Gumshoe gets his salary cut for life.~~

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

They have little experience. Maybe not like no experience. But having skill doesn't make it experience. They are still second graders who haven't been fighting their whole like. If we assumed they started in first grade (which is iffy at best for unless there's reason) they have like 2 years of experience at their very best. And that's pushing it too. They haven't even finished second grade. Meaning that they don't have that year, and that assumes they did it in first too. Which is baseless. At best they have 2 years. They most likely don't even have a year. So Gumshoe has a massive experience edge.

And their arsenal hardly matters. Their launchers are way to massive to the point where pulling it out and aiming would result in him getting shot pre to doing anything. And the missiles are so slow that shooting it to stop it would be extremely easy. They are like extremely slow to the players perspective, to the point they can almost out run it. Hardly causes a problem if they use it, it's easy to shoot out of the air. And That's on the unlike chance they even out draw Gumshoe before he pops one into them. If they both go guns. Dick has the smaller gun, more experience and training, so likely is getting that gun out faster and getting a deadlier shot in, and that assumes they don't pull out a launcher and just got shot pre to them having a chance to react.

His other stuff isn't in range of Gumshoe. He only starts in range with his best weapon. Which would be guns. So most everything else becomes utterly useless

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

Speed is equalized, so that argument of "outrunning a missile" is basically null.

And regardless, the Player has this via AP. A few shots later, Gumshoe is dead. For reference, the strongest gun they can own would be the Submachine Gun. And even then, the weakest gun they can own is a Thug Pistol.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

No it isn't. Because the player can out run it. That missile is slow AF. They are in fact fast than their own missiles. And if not faster. At least comparable to a degree considering they can put run it for a bit. The missile doesn't suddenly become faster than the player cause speed is equal. Their speed is equal. Meaning they will move on equal footing. But the missile will still have to be slower than the player and thus, Slower than Gumshoe. Regardless, he isn't getting a shot with it cause a pistol is drawn much faster than a giant launcher

And the AP doesn't matter at all. Gun says hello. They hardly care about AP and durability less your high enough. Gumshoe makes a few shots too and that kids dead

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

Buttersamuri said:
No it isn't. Because the player can out run it. That missile is slow AF. They are in fact fast than their own missiles. And if not faster. At least comparable to a degree considering they can put run it for a bit. The missile doesn't suddenly become faster than the player cause speed is equal. Their speed is equal. Meaning they will move on equal footing. But the missile will still have to be slower than the player and thus, Slower than Gumshoe. Regardless, he isn't getting a shot with it cause a pistol is drawn much faster than a giant launcher

And the AP doesn't matter at all. Gun says hello. They hardly care about AP and durability less your high enough. Gumshoe makes a few shots too and that kids dead

Speed is equal for everything for what I have heard. Otherwise, you wouldve said that The Player (Pixel Gun 3D) wouldve blitzed Sans with guns, yet Sans still won that.

AP matters. The Gun is literally the strongest weapon they have, significantly stronger than them. Hell, if one were to own a max amped gun, 3-5 shots would easily kill another Player with it, and since Gumshoe is way weaker, he will die within even lesser shots.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

Speed is equal between them. But the problem is. The Players speed Is Faster than his missiles. So when speed is equal. The player speed is still faster than the missiles, which also makes Gumshoe faster then them. Speed being equal screws over someone who uses attacks slower then them. Because their weapons are still slower then them, and since the opponent matches their speed, they too are faster.

And the player will die to shots from a gun cause pierce damage says hello. Gumshoes gun can easily one shot just because it's a gun. It matters on who draws and shoots first. Gumshoe has all the reasons why he would. Far more experience, Far more training, smaller and faster gun. There is the odds of them trying the launcher which gets them shot up, and if they tried guns, Gumshoe has experience, training, and gun size all backing him up to take that more times

And that fights getting removed regardless due to me. You're welcome on that. Dab

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

That isnt really true, just a mistake on the profile I made. The missiles DO outrun the Player, its that the Player can react to them by turning to screw around with them as they circle.

Jackythejack · Mar 4, 2020

''None of Sans' fights should really get removed because the reasonings for why he wins still stands mostly''

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

No it is true. I watched videos myself on it. They can outrun it for quite a bit cause those things are so dang slow. And at gun range away, it doesn't matter if it's as fast as the players foot speed. It's not bullet level fast. Gumshoe could easily shoot it out of the air. And again. The player isn't outdrawing if he tries a missile.

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

Meh, regardless, the Player would obviously lead with their strongest weapon, their pistol, to the point this is all a range battle. And since even the slightest gun would kill a Player in 3-5 hits, Gumshoe's is FAR out of the Player's league of AP, and hence takes about 2 shots to kill.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

The missile is the strongest. And that's not what he pulls out every time. He would pull out the many different range options he has.

Regardless.

Pistol battle. Gumshoe wins via Far more experience, far more training, and would be better with a gun

And then the other times he tries any other gun (which the player would. Don't say he wouldn't cause he doesn't have a set character that causes him to pick and choose his pistol specifically). Gumshoe shoots before he draws because Gumshoe draws faster.

So Gumshoe has much better win conditions. As let's say like 4/10 times They don't even draw their weapon fast enough as they have many range weapons to use. But Gumshoe has his one to use. So he draws faster then their bigger guns. And if he tries a pistol. Gumshoes more likely to win through raw experience and training. Either way, gumshoes more likely to win. The much better trained skilled, and experienced cop with the better gun thanks to its easy draw speed and aim beats the Second grader WHOS arsenal would take too long to pull out, far far less experienced, no training, and worse weapons when it comes to aim and draw speed, plus too wide of an arsenal and lack of character to properly say what he pulls out more times than not

Whiteoak019 · Mar 4, 2020

Gumshoe FRA

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

Buttersamuri said:
The missile is the strongest. And that's not what he pulls out every time. He would pull out the many different range options he has.

Regardless.

Pistol battle. Gumshoe wins via Far more experience, far more training, and would be better with a gun

And then the other times he tries any other gun (which the player would. Don't say he wouldn't cause he doesn't have a set character that causes him to pick and choose his pistol specifically). Gumshoe shoots before he draws because Gumshoe draws faster.

So Gumshoe has much better win conditions. As let's say like 4/10 times They don't even draw their weapon fast enough as they have many range weapons to use. But Gumshoe has his one to use. So he draws faster then their bigger guns. And if he tries a pistol. Gumshoes more likely to win through raw experience and training. Either way, gumshoes more likely to win

Draw faster, you say? Say hello to the Slot Upgrade, where within a single tap of a button IRL (or in the Player's verse, instantly already having said weapon in their hand), the Player instantly has the weapon out. He carries 3 of them, and can assign the slots to whatever pleases him. An intelligent player actually assigns food for one of them, obviously.

And one more note. Even if the Player is running low on HP, this is why he heals midfight, which is in-character. And with said slots I mentioned earlier, they can instantly access the food for them to heal. And they can even do this while attacking.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

Game mechanic. The gun suddenly appearing in their hand like that is entirely game mechanics. That's like how roblox can do the same. They are drawing it, but it just appears due to game mechanic.

He can't heal if there's a bullet in his head or heart. Once he is shot. He is basically dead. Not really from healing that.

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

They arent a game mechanic. They are pretty much legit.

And youre forgetting the point that Gumshoe's gun <<< the Player's, so to the Player, the gun wouldnt even do much damage. And they fought military utilizing guns before, and even on one mission, they fought a gang of mafia men, all wielding guns, and the Player defeated them easily.

True, the Player is less experienced, but they are capable of fighting military and police regardless, who are WAY more experienced than the Player. Military, especially. Given Gumshoe's been a detective for 6+ years, the military professional would be much more experienced than him.

Joaco0902 · Mar 4, 2020

Player FRA

Jackythejack · Mar 4, 2020

Yeah gonna say player FRA

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

That's still game mechanic. That's just it not being in his backpack but on him. Same exact thing with the roblox guy. That just means he doesn't have to pull it out of his backpack. And considering how it's describing it, it's definitely more game mechanic than in verse canon. It's describing how to use it to You. Which many guns upgrades, and other such things do across games. Still game mechanics

All becomes pretty useless in a quick draw. Gumshoe shoots faster, better, and more reliably. This guy has too many guns he could pull out, many lead to him getting shot to death, his launchers lead to him getting shot to death and even if he gets a shot out, it's easily countered.

And these guys he fought were with several several other players. Group vs group battles. Which is vastly different from doing it alone.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

Looking it up too. I'm not seeing any actual military battles. Only mafia as a special event fought in large groups

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

And you once again keep ignoring the fact the Player would regardless pull a gun out just like Gumshoe. They arent going to be stupid and waste time choosing a gun, no. They take out the strongest gun, which is also faster hitting, and use it to fight. They know Launchers are slow, so they wouldnt choose that.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

which again you are trying to twist this up so the player will win.

No he wouldn't, we don't know which gun he would choose. You say he would choose his strongest, And pull out the pistol which is contradicting. We don't even know what gun he has on him at the time because it can vary. His pistol could be in his bag for all we know,

1. No actual character leads him to pulling that out first all the time. He could easily pull out the many bigger guns which result in him getting shot up. He has no character and no official opener.

2. His strongest weapon is the launchers, not the pistol. The pistol is more a sucky weapon because it does the least damage and is the smallest of the guns. He would more likely try a bigger gun if we go by your logic

3. With how many big guns he has vs his pistol he is far more likely to pull out the other bigger guns than his pistol more times than not. Which result in him getting shot up

4. Your logic is flawed. They have no character and wouldn't suddenly think their launcher is slower and use another weapon every single time. They would just pull out and shoot, sometimes the launcher sometimes a bigger gun, sometimes a pistol. You can't use Openers that they have no reasonable proof of actually opening with every single time. He opens with what weapon he probably has closest to him. So whatever he has in his slots. Which nobody can predict what he has. He could have any one of the weapons. And the one weapon he needs is the pistol. Which all together becomes far more likely since he needs that one pistol to not get shot up before he can draw

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

Buttersamuri said:
which again you are trying to twist this up so the player will win.

No he wouldn't, we don't know which gun he would choose. You say he would choose his strongest, And pull out the pistol which is contradicting

1. No actual character leads him to pulling that out first all the time. He could easily pull out the many bigger guns which result in him getting shot up

2. His strongest weapon is the launchers, not the pistol. The pistol is more a sucky weapon because it does the least damage and is the smallest of the guns. He would more likely try a bigger gun if we go by your logic

3. With how many big guns he has vs his pistol he is far more likely to pull out the other bigger guns than his pistol more times than not. Which result in him getting shot up

4. Your logic is flawed. They have no bars yet and wouldn't suddenly think their launcher is slower and use another weapon every single time. They would just pull out and shoot, sometimes the launcher sometimes a bigger gun, sometimes a pistol. You can't use Openers that they have no reasonable proof of actually opening with every single time

It doesnt matter if they pulls out their strongest weapon. The Player, for one, is a genius, both in combat and in building/being independent. They would already know the basics of what weapons others have and wouldnt hesitate to pull out a pistol. Yes, even something as weak as a pistol can kill Gumshoe through sheer AP.

And lets not forget about the AP gap... the Player is 1436.37624014 kilojoules and Gumshoe is 220.55644 kilojoules, so thats a 6.51251099329x difference, and that can be major. Since they wield guns, at best, Gumshoe's gun would kill the Player in approximately 10 shots. All the player needs is 1-2 shots to win. And the fact they can spam healing already significantly increases the chance of the Player winning.

And youre saying my logic is flawed? Wrong. The Player has seen other players fight with different weapons, and given they know the basics of said weapons, they should know how to deal with the weapons. Especially if the Player has fought that weapon against them, they are tactical to the point they know the basics with that weapon, so they should be knowledgeable enough to either disarm them (as in destroy the weapon with a clasher), or if far away, run to take cover or pull a gun out. Since the AP gap is large, Gumshoe's gun doesnt oneshot.

So stop trying to come up with reasonings of your bias towards Gumshoe winning. I have already made my point.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

Yes it does. If they go for any other weapon other than the pistol they get shot up and die. Because unless it's the pistol, he gets out drawn. That's just making up Character which doesn't flat out exist. Considering the pistol could very easily be in their bag, as well, most likely it is in their bag considering how many other weapons they have. Like you said. They only have a few slots. But they have Over A Dozen weapons. Over a dozen weapons could be taking up those slots. There is no reason he might not even have a gun in his slots. And thus would need to go to his bag and get out his gun which would cause him to die. The only win he has is if Out of all of the over Dozens of weapons the pistol is in his slot, and he manages to outdraw someone vastly more experienced than he is. Which that win condition is so unlikey

Which there is a huge problem. If the weapon is in his bag. He is screwed. He gets shot up to death before he can draw it. And with So Many Freaking weapons, and only 3 slots. Th odds of him even having the pistol is Extremely unlikely. And the odds of him having a gun even is unlikely. At the time, he could have range options, but all his range options are too short cause he doesn't have a gun in his slots. It's in his bag. So to win he needs this specifically

Out of the Dozens of weapons he has, and only 3 slots. He has the pistol in the slots and not the dozens of other weapons and or food.

He still needs to manage to actually fight with Gumshoe and not get shot to death by the much more experienced and trained fighter

That's his one win condition. And it's So Extremely Unlikely as it requires several things to go right. Cause if one thing is off. He dies. And that somehow happening 6\10 times is just not plausible to the slightest

And no. Not at all. That's not how a gun works. One bullet to the head would put The Player Down. Pierce damages gives Jack about him being that much more durable. He gets shot, bleeds to death get shot somewhere fatal, and dies. A gun doesn't care at all. Plus Gumshoe upscales from that. He is notably stronger than that feat.

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

Buttersamuri said:
Yes it does. If they go for any other weapon other than the pistol they get shot up and die. Because unless it's the pistol, he gets out drawn. That's just making up Character which doesn't flat out exist. Considering the pistol could very easily be in their bag, as well, most likely it is in their bag considering how many other weapons they have. Like you said. They only have a few slots. But they have Over A Dozen weapons. Over a dozen weapons could be taking up those slots. There is no reason he might not even have a gun in his slots. And thus would need to go to his bag and get out his gun which would cause him to die. The only win he has is if Out of all of the over Dozens of weapons the pistol is in his slot, and he manages to outdraw someone vastly more experienced than he is. Which that win condition is so unlikey

Which there is a huge problem. If the weapon is in his bag. He is screwed. He gets shot up to death before he can draw it. And with So Many Freaking weapons, and only 3 slots. Th odds of him even having the pistol is Extremely unlikely. And the odds of him having a gun even is unlikely. At the time, he could have range options, but all his range options are too short cause he doesn't have a gun in his slots. It's in his bag. So to win he needs this specifically

Out of the Dozens of weapons he has, and only 3 slots. He has the pistol in the slots and not the dozens of other weapons and or food.

He still needs to manage to actually fight with Gumshoe and not get shot to death by the much more experienced and trained fighter

That's his one win condition. And it's So Extremely Unlikely as it requires several things to go right. Cause if one thing is off. He dies. And that somehow happening 6\10 times is just not plausible to the slightest

And no. Not at all. That's not how a gun works. One bullet to the head would put The Player Down. Pierce damages gives Jack about him being that much more durable. He gets shot, bleeds to death get shot somewhere fatal, and dies. A gun doesn't care at all. Plus Gumshoe upscales from that. He is notably stronger than that feat.

Upscaling or not, you keep ignoring that the Player fought gunners before and survived with ease. Those military the player fought are as I said, FAR more experienced than Gumshoe, and the fact they wield a better gun than Gumshoe's, it must be noted the Player's items are evenly sorted by weapons, armor, and misc, and they already pull the gun quickly.

All your doing is just repeating every line you said when I have already covered and debunked it, so stop trying to show your biasism towards Gumshoe of him winning when the Player has fought FAR worse than that and won with ease.

Ill continue this later. I gotta go have breakfast and go to school.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

I also wanna make note

They hardly seem like a genius. Gifted is where they should place more. At least from the feats shown. Crafting guns and weapons and fighting the mafia in a very large group doesn't justify Genius imo

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

First of all. No. You have Next to no idea how much experience these guys have. That's baseless. Even going by the standard time you need to be in military before you can leave (4 years) puts it under Gumshoe. And that's seriously overplaying it because there's no basis to use that amount of experience. That's just an idea that you can leave after 4 years since that's how the military works. So no. Not Far more experienced. There's not any proof they are even More or Even As experienced. We just know they are military. Not how long they have been serving. So Gumshoes still far more experienced than what the player has faced. Over 6 years (probably over 10 in current games iirc) >>>> Unspecified amount of military training/experience. What they wielded doesn't matter much due to the fact. This is a quick draw. A pistol will kill him just as a rifle would. The fact his gun is smaller makes it easier to draw and shoot. Which Helps gumshoes case. Not hurt it

Ok so. That doesn't magically stop them from getting shot. That entirely ignores the point. If the pistol isn't in his slot, which is extremely extremely unlikely. Then he can't quick draw cause he gets shot to death. If he has to go to his bag, he dies. There is no chance of a win at that point. If Any other gun, weapon, or health items are taking up the slots, it would result in him being shot to death. Since he has Several guns, Dozens of melee, short range, and health items vs his pistol. The odds of that pistol being in his slot at the time are so unbelievably against him. He would lose right then and there. There's a 1 out of 10 to 2 out of 10 chance that outcome actually happens. And that doesn't even promise a win. As I proved your above statement to be wrong. He has faced nobody as experienced as Gumshoe. Both just need to get one shot in. Gumshoe is more likely too via training and experience.

So His arsenals large size but lack of slots that would allow him to quick draw would screw him over because it makes His One Win Condition So Very Unlikely. He gets shot up more than 6/10 just because of it.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

So yea. Basically

His one win condition is very unlikely due odds of him even having the pistol in his slots is So unlikely since his arsenal is so big. If it's in his backpack which happens 70 to 90 percent of the time, he just gets shot up to death. And if he even had his pistol to quick draw. Doesn't even promise a win. At that point. Gumshoe either wins it through sheer experience and training. Or they both shoot each other and die. Him getting the shot in and Gumshoe not is just not happening

Joaco0902 · Mar 4, 2020

Ok, I'll guess I vote Gumshoe FRA

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

Two for each then.

Gumshoe will take this. The bigger arsenal doesn't always tend to win, and in this case. Screws them over!

Psychomaster35 · Mar 4, 2020

For one more time, the gun will not even oneshot. It takes at best 6-8 shots to kill, given the Player's armor and his experience dealing with guns. All the Player needs is 2 shots, already 3-4x the damage of Gumshoe's bullets. And the Player spams instant healing in character.

Gumshoe being more experienced doesnt really promise anything when the Player fought those close in experience. Robots, Gunners, those. And furthermore, the Player has even been shot before while switching weapons, and he survived with minimal injury. And the guns shot at him were on THEIR LEVEL. As I established before, the Player's gun >>> Gumshoe's gun, and since the Player takes minimal damage whilest switching, Gumshe's gun will take MUCH more than that to kill the Player. Since the Player's weapons are evenly sorted, and that the gun is in the closest to the left, he will have a higher chance to pull his gun out. And while he may take 1-2 gunshots, they arent fatal, and he heals that with Turkey Dinner (an entire turkey) before being ready to fight.

It must be noted that the Player always wears armor, his head especially, so unless you take around hundreds of shots to destroy them, they are pretty durable. Especially Sonica or Zardox.

Buttersamuri · Mar 4, 2020

No. Again No. a gun pierce damages. That's just entirely wrong. If his armor could actually stop that many bullets. Then he is far too tough and haxed, and would be eliminated at that point. He already was on thin ice due to his arsenal, intelligence, haxs, and such put him on top of the line if not slightly over, I just allowed it since there was so few entries, and a gun person could responsibly take them on. But if they are tanking bullets to, then that just past the line at that point. And no he doesn't. You again are making character out of someone who doesn't have character. That's Downright Wrong. Making up stuff for him to do doesn't suddenly make it true. Stop it. He does not have a character. He doesn't have an way he in canon responds because he is a Player. He responds the way a player would. Even mario has more in character stuff than the player does. The Player has No in canon character of how they react.

Butters Loser Brackets: Round 5 Dick Gumshoe vs The Player

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