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Back to the past vs looks into the future (Byleth vs Dry Leonhard) (grace)

First_Witch

First_Witch

VS Battles
Retired
8,487
8,887
My eyes lit up when i saw the Low 6-B upgrade

Dry Leonhard vs Byleth

Mandala Dry and Sothis fused Byleth are used, both are low 6-B and Speed is equalized

Professor: 1

Knight: 7

AL gets a new professor:
 
Against it directly? Nothing. But he makes it basically useless thanks to precog
 
No you can't


DC coats constantly surround their wearers with a forcefield, its basically a second layer of durability.

Paranormal powers ranges from normal elemental manipulation to physics breakery
 
Hmmm, let's see:

  • In terms of AP, Byleth is the weaker of the two with his being 5.8 Teratons while Leonhard is 6.71 Teratons while his durability can be higher due to his DC coats. Both has means to raise it higher but Leonhard will likely remain being the stronger one I believe
  • Speed is equalized, but Byleth has amps with Speed +2 and Vantage when he gets low in HP so Byleth will soon become the faster one of the two.
  • With Divine Pulse and Accelerated Development, Byleth can redo the battle about 13 times, using any knowledge he learn from each of those time-redo to learn about Leonhard's techniques and skills to do better against him while Leonhard does not retain no knowledge than what he know of Byleth since the start, which is none.
  • In terms of skills, I give it to Leonhard, though Byleth can learn and eventually plan out counter measure/ find some weakness within Leonhard's fighting style with his uses of Divine Pulse, though Leonhard can always work out probability with Mandala in favor to foretell the future and change his movement to counter Byleth. Although Mandala can backfire and erase Leonhard from existence if he fail to keep an eye on himself
  • Thanks to his Wave Techniques, Leonhard can cancel Byleth's magic attacks, rendering it uselsss.
@ First Witch - Can you describe Leonhard's Reality Warping in more details and how effective it is?
 
  • That is correct
  • Dry can keep up with people too fast to even react to with pure skill
  • Dry dosnt need to retain the previous battle, he will see how Byleth adapts to him through precog.
  • Dry can fully fight with characters far stronger, faster and more skilled than Byleth while maintaining Mandala so this isnt much of an issue
  • That is correct.
You can ignore Mandala's reality warping for now. We know jack about its functions outside of a single but detailed explanation. Its basically pseudo Almighty but with no feats.
 
Byleth has strength and health amps (swordfaire, professor's guidance, defiant strength, Health plus, and a few more I can get into later. so if anything Byleth has the AP advantage.) and the skill gap isn't that large. Byleth will heal on most hits and has can dodge some attacks due to prowess, so he will be getting hit less then Dry. That isn't even getting into Byleth's sword abilities and range advantage
 
Byleth has strength and health amps (swordfaire, professor's guidance, defiant strength, Health plus, and a few more I can get into later. so if anything Byleth has the AP advantage.)

Without solid multipliers i severly doubt that.

and the skill gap isn't that large.

I doubt this even harder. What are noteworthy Byleth skill feats? Dry as a Top Sword is one of the most skilled Knights in the entire universe

Byleth will heal on most hits and has can dodge some attacks due to prowess, so he will be getting hit less then Dry.

Precog though?

hat isn't even getting into Byleth's sword abilities and range advantage

Dry's range is outdated. Just going to point out that he did his feat outside the planets atmosphere.
 
Even as a youth , an average student of his could hold off groups of soldiers (who are most likely stronger due to Hubert lacking a crest.) for three days

44DD831F-56D8-4F2F-926F-DD9AEB4D0368
 
The scaling chain above him is pretty large, considering that Hubert, the other students, and Byleth, constantly improve throughout the game and that Hubert isn't notably skilled.
 
Thats more of a stamina feat than a skill feat though. Knights below Dry could fight nonstop for 9 days against an army of flying, lazershooting aliens in enemy territory.

Only the best of the best from a planet are even considered as Knight trainee, across the entire universe. Knight Run scaling chain is, i garantee you, way more massive than that. And low tier Knights have actual skill feats that you can look up in the link i provided.

And like i said, Byleth aint hitting Dry with just that considering that Dry outpredicted someone who could blitz him up and down. And this was before he got his precog mind you.
 
Now, this is a really close battle for both of them.

First of all, the AP difference is very close enough for both with a 1.15 difference in favor in Dry, not forgetting that he has the durability advantage with DC coats. Byleth has the Speed Advantage with Speed Amplification and many skills that allows him to still keeping the gap in his favor, even with waves stats amps.

However, the difference in their stats are not in anyone advantage when both of them fought against guys that has even higher layers of durability and capable to outspeed them, such as Demonic Beasts and the boss fights such as the Immaculate One in Byleth's case or many enemies that have even to superior stats such as Fear in case of Dry.

Waves Techniques makes reason magic nulified, faith magic is fair game for Byleth. And stamina wise, Dry has better natural stamina while Byleth has a large quantity and quality of ways of self-healing even in combat.

Their strongest tools are Divine Pulse for Byleth and Mandala for Dry.

Divine Pulse is really a great tool for Byleth due he wins the knowledge of the battlefield and it really puts in a situation where his opponent might be outclassed in terms of preparation at knowing each ability, equipment and tactics obtainable regardless of skill and stats difference something that Dry will lose after Divine Pulse is used. This means that Mandala is the only tool that has Dry to actually stop and defeat Byleth, which that might not be a bad thing considering he might also be ahead of Byleth in some of his moves and if his skill gap is large enough, Byleth Divine Pulse is going to get at his limit. However, if Byleth skill could be comparable with Dry then, that wouldn't last long.

So in terms of skill the gap isn't big enough, Dry Leonhard has the honor of being the Top Sword in Knight Run's universe which is a big honor, but Byleth is also on similar tables by being able to considering he fought at a disadvantage in the war in at least three out four routes with superior weaponary and man power in their enemies side. So in context of Three Houses, after the disappearance of Byleth and Rhea capture, Fodlan become very chaotic as a result with very fews allies in his favor he needed to lead against countless of warriors and knights with titles, experience and legacy on their side and a faction that prepared almost 1000 years for ruin Fodlan and destroy the goddess, and yet Byleth led his army into victory. Which is actually very similar to Knight Run: The humanity is struggling against monsters, humanoid aliens a head from the humanity, military soldiers prepared for war and many traitions.

So, overall I would give Byleth the vote with hard difficulty.
 
hmm, I got called here (even though First Witch is the Knight Run expert).

As has been pointed out Dry has the slight AP advantage.

But honestly I think the massive skill gap is what matters. Coupled with waves I dont think that Byleth has a way around them. If he is not able to get past the skill gap in his finite number of Divine pulse uses he would straight up lose.

I dont see why Faith magic is fair game? If it is paranormal it would get canceled. The only reason I am fine with divine pulse is the way it works I presume means that wave techniques wont really matter.

I dont think Byleth's skill is in anyway comprabale to Dry. If First Witch wants to he can break it down but the level of Skill Knight Run is on kinda leaves most entire verses in the dust.

I would give Dry the vote with hard difficulty, I honestly think that with the skill gap Byleth would instantly lose in the first few fights while having to rewind with Divine pulse. Until he starts working around Dry but then he would still lose eventually only divine pulse makes this close, wave techniques are completely busted. If Dry's Mandala is as good as described that he should win with easy difficulty. I am pretty sure Mandala would get past divine pulse.

Basically I vote Dry, 6/10 without Mandala usage, 10/10 with Mandala.
 
I called you because i cant debate extensivly as the OP, spite intention and all. Youre doing a fine job dont worry.
 
But honestly I think the massive skill gap is what matters. Coupled with waves I dont think that Byleth has a way around them.

Everyone is agreed that is skill what determinates this outcome. However, after looking at waves that are in nature, natural talents, Pray Style isn't really something Byleth should be to worried on the long run due the fact outside Reason magic, none of the other Byleth techniques and abilites are really hindered by. This is also considering that the wave technique, Pray Style, will harm the user after the activation. And the condition of achieve total superiority, should be compared to how the other franchises scaled skill wise.

I dont see why Faith magic is fair game? If it is paranormal it would get canceled.

This is actually not a good comparation in terms on what paranormal could be scaled to Fire Emblem, Faith magic doesn't belong elemental manipulation, but rather on holy magic which looking by the profiles, it shouldn't be scaled, unlike reason magic (that in Byleth's case is fire and electricity). The only reason I am fine with divine pulse is the way it works I presume means that wave techniques wont really matter.

I dont think Byleth's skill is in anyway comprabale to Dry. If First Witch wants to he can break it down but the level of Skill Knight Run is on kinda leaves most entire verses in the dust.

While Knight Run skill wise could be a really skilled verse, I wouldn't call the Fire Emblem verse "unskilled by comparasion". Again, their reputation is similar to the reputation Byleth and many of his students got, and the many of the ranks that they receive after selection of candidates, survival of events, graduation and living legends know as Cold Heroes can be compared with many of Fire Emblem Three Houses events with the exception of how candidates are chosen to be part from Garreg Mach Monastery, with civilizations from ages around the world, many different ranks from the Knights of Serios including knights that are in direct service like Catherine that could even whipe out armies of knights, on a similar possition to the rank of Type Zero, and civilizations that are revengeful after a massive lost almost 1000 years ago with even higher technology that are way advanced compared to the technology avaliable in the Crurch of Serios, and tactical wise the verse is also really high in terms to strategy.

Until he starts working around Dry but then he would still lose eventually only divine pulse makes this close, wave techniques are completely busted. If Dry's Mandala is as good as described that he should win with easy difficulty. I am pretty sure Mandala would get past divine pulse.

Dry engaged Fear using mandala, but it was stopped via Balisarda, one of the Phenomena Weapon. This is one example of one of Mandala weakness, it works via observing probability, meaning that while is a really strong tool at his disposal, is not flawless and considering that the gaps aren't really far enough. This makes Divine Pulse the more reliable tool overall with the knowledge gain in the battlefield and enough time to work for a strategy with the time stoped, this doesn't use one of Divine Pulse limited uses.

Overall, I think Byleth is still going to be the one claiming victory with hard difficulty.
 
I was going to stay impartial because i am the op but this is kinda whack.

Everyone is agreed that is skill what determinates this outcome. However, after looking at waves that are in nature, natural talents, Pray Style isn't really something Byleth should be to worried on the long run due the fact outside Reason magic, none of the other Byleth techniques and abilites are really hindered by. This is also considering that the wave technique, Pray Style, will harm the user after the activation. And the condition of achieve total superiority, should be compared to how the other franchises scaled skill wise.

Waves will seal up all forms of magic though, its a continous power null. I dont quiet get why Reason magic should be fair game? Wave nulls things far more complicated than just basic healing. The Drawback only applies to weak humans, like Anne. Dry dosnt suffer from them

You are really underselling what it means to be a Pray Style user. The Pray Style is the far superior and revamped Mayer Style, which is a amalgation of all martial arts native to earth and beyond. Literally the best of all Martial arts is unified in the Mayer Style and the Pray Style further pushes it to perfection.

The only reason I am fine with divine pulse is the way it works I presume means that wave techniques wont really matter.

Correction: The only reason Divine Pulse is fair game is because its source is from a low 2-C goddess and that is without a doubt above the paygrade of Waves.

While Knight Run skill wise could be a really skilled verse, I wouldn't call the Fire Emblem verse "unskilled by comparasion". Again, their reputation is similar to the reputation Byleth and many of his students got, and the many of the ranks that they receive after selection of candidates, survival of events, graduation and living legends know as Cold Heroes can be compared with many of Fire Emblem Three Houses events with the exception of how candidates are chosen to be part from Garreg Mach Monastery, with civilizations from ages around the world, many different ranks from the Knights of Serios including knights that are in direct service like Catherine that could even whipe out armies of knights, on a similar possition to the rank of Type Zero, and civilizations that are revengeful after a massive lost almost 1000 years ago with even higher technology that are way advanced compared to the technology avaliable in the Crurch of Serios, and tactical wise the verse is also really high in terms to strategy.

Alright look. You are comparing a medieval world, a signle i might add, to a universal civilization. Knight Run knights are literally the greatest warrios across the entire universe, humans who have to fight planetary wars with nothing more than a sword and the occasional paranormal power at their disposal.

I can garantee you, a nameless mook knight would outskill 80% of the Three House cast alone. Do you know what Knight Trainees, something even below a squire, are made of? The greatest prodigees of their homeplanet across the universe, a single Knight can wage wars against entire armies. Dry scales so massivly above that it isnt even funny.

Dry is so skilled he can perfectly parry attacks from Fear, who is too fast for him to even react too with nothing but skill, someone who learned under Pray, the most skilled Knight in the entire series, so until i get actual skill feats then i dont buy into Byleth being anywhere near that. Knight Run is basically in the top 10 of the most skilled series on this wiki.

Dry engaged Fear using mandala, but it was stopped via Balisarda, one of the Phenomena Weapon. This is one example of one of Mandala weakness, it works via observing probability, meaning that while is a really strong tool at his disposal, is not flawless and considering that the gaps aren't really far enough. This makes Divine Pulse the more reliable tool overall with the knowledge gain in the battlefield and enough time to work for a strategy with the time stoped, this doesn't use one of Divine Pulse limited uses.

Balisarda sealed the ability, it was not a flaw of the technique. I dont even understand what flaws you are talking about, Mandala worked perfectly until Balisarda sealed it up (important to add that both abilities sealed each other up), which is simply a clash of the physics breaking nature of Phenomenon weapons (Balisarda) and Mandala. I dont really follow the reasoning of why Divine Pulse is more reliable either. You do realise that whatever progress Byleth made Dry will see thanks to Mandala right? And heck, even without Mandala, Dry's analytical prediction, as i outline in the feat with Fear above, should fully suffice to dominate Byleth in a sword fight.

Skill aside, worst case scenario Dry could just nuke the entire battlefield and sufficate Byleth by burning an area the size of europe down.
 
Yeah First Witch put it down well, there is no way you can compare millions of people (high-balling here for a medieval kingdom) to trillions upon trilluons of people over millions of even billions of worlds. I wont be surprised if even non-Knights could outskill people on the level of Byleth simply due to the quantity of people and the level you need to be able to become a knight in the first place meaning the quality of knights is far higher.

Again only Divine Pulse works for me it was not even due to a Low 2-C Goddess since I did not know that but due to it's mechanics and that of waves being a bit of a temporary power null.

Faith magic is still a paranormal ability i the first place as long as it is not higher dimensional or a far higher AP than that of Dry he would still be able to powernull it via waves.

Mandala got sealed by a physics breaking weapon and even then still worked to seal up said weapon, unless you have sealing or powernull of your own it would work just fine.
 
Honestly this is more of a skill stomp than I first put it. I dont see what puts FE even close to Knight Run skillwise. And wave techniques makes most battles a skill battle which even with divine pulse still makes it impossible for Byleth to do anything about.
 
apparently it might be Low 2-C, something to do with a Goddess, honestly all it does is delay the inevitable and allow Byleth to taste defeat 12 more times than necessary.
 
Well, its what DDM told me on the Byleth vs Ike match.

Regardless, time manipulation is a tad over the paygrade of Waves (for now, later chapters are getting ridicolous in terms of hax).
 
I saw that and I still question where it comes from,

IDK guess he can clarify it once he gets here
 
Gonna have to go with Dry on this one. The absurd skill gap was explained more than enough, not even mentioning the skill feats of people below like Leo which Dry would scale above of. The most damning thing, I feel, is the fact he pulls a lot of his fighting against someone at blitzing levels of speed, but who also possess absurd skill on top of that.

Also, this is a bit out of focus, but are you sure you wanna leave Sion's range as dozens of meters, Witch? Just damaging that massive dude at the start of her fight with Hyperion should give her more, but am not entirely sure.
 
Bump

@Lancelot

I am just really terrible when it comes to range gauging. And we do actually have some insane range feats in the Hero arc, Leo and Leny drilling a 17 km hole with a single attack and Dry razing the planet from the orbit.

I will do the changes when i feel like doing so lol.
 
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