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Skill VS: Hayato vs Sasaki.

Ok but many martial arts have developed from looking at how animals fight. The mantis attacks for example.

There's a guy who copied animal's scream which allows him to scare opponents on a genetic level.
 
That's one animal Sasaki studied various animals in order to gain his style. Also that second feat isn't even a skill feat, that's outright sound and fear manipulation.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
That's one animal Sasaki studied various animals in order to gain his style. Also that second feat isn't even a skill feat, that's outright sound and fear manipulation.
Click to expand...
True, are there any instances of one person in Kenichi having the abilities of multiple animals?
 
I mean Kenichi caught a fish after a few tries so there's that, but again that still pales in comparison to actually learning from various animals for years on end.
 
The foundation mainly, it's not based on anything human in nature thus makes his swordsmanship much more unpredictable and has several moves based around the animals he's studied.
 
@Prince

As i said many martial arts deveoped from animals, in real life. And fear and sound manip, sure but he still learned it from animals, it's martial arts he developed with yes, skill. Also the mantra is not something one animal can do, it's several animals that can do that technique.

As for the prediction, where does it say that his attacks are more unpredictable cus they come from animals?

Also Shigure developed her weapon arts in the forest as well. There are more stuff like Tiger attack,cat palm. etc
 
This has nothing to do with real life and even then the animals that some martial arts are typically based on a singular animal. Sasaki based his off of various animals and for years on end, there's no martial art that's like that. And no, he learned it from a singular animal, one animal. And Mantra is something that a few animals can do but that doesn't change that it's only taking from one thing animals can do, let me reiterate for Sasaki that's nothing.


His several techniques for one, Musashi had a difficult time getting a good read on Sasaki's movements and his Tsumbae Gashi is another one of his moves that has a built in fail safe, if the initial slash is dodged a second one comes flying in from the opponents blind spot.
 
Yet you have nothing to say on "how many animals he adapted", what techniques, etc. Only "he lived with animals". Many people do that. Doesn't put him above people who have completely mastered animal behaviour for their martial arts. Also Hayato scales as a composite to his verse, not individually.

Yes and mantra is still beyond anything Sasaki has learned from animals.

Had a dificult time getting a good read on, sure, scan where it states "this was because his style is from animals"?
 
Okay, you make it all the more clear that you know absolutely poppycock about Shuumatsu. No, it isn't stated that Sasaki only lived from animals, it's directly stated he learned his techniques from the animals in the forest he lived in, the self made ones at least. He's quite literally shown learning from rabbits, frogs, birds, snakes, etc. Sasaki completely mastered the behaviour of the animals he learned from by the time he came back to his dojo, I'd stop trying to spread misinformation about Sasaki when it clear you know nothing about him. Again this is mastering the techniques of various animals over the course of a few years vs mastering a singular technique from wildlife. The former is objectively more impressive than the latter. Also Sasaki is scaling above the other combatants as a collective, why you keep implying otherwise depsite having no knowledge on the series is beyond me.


Again, that's blatantly incorrect. Mantra is only one thing, Sasaki has mastered various skills from the animals he lived with.


It was due to his stlye.... which is based around animals, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together mate.
 
@Prince

Those are several techniques i showed you. The tiger one, the cat palm, mantra, there are more i can find, like the stooping bird hind brai, Snake Stance , boar stance and more. Why do you keep saying "one technique"?

Hmm so Sasaki has defeated literally everyone in his series "at the same time"? Becaus that's what it means to be collective above everyone.

Mantra, on its own, as a technique is literally better than anything Sasaki has learned from animals. It literally doesn't need the help of the other techniques i mentioned above.

I will need the scan on the unable to predict.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
BakiHanma18 said:
BakiHanma18 said:
Next, Sasaki's preciseness. https://i.imgur.com/1c5Yrn9.png https://i.imgur.com/q8FXB1S.png
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
What about this feat? Does Hayato or anyone he upscales from have a skill feat comparable to this?
Click to expand...
That's not exactly combat applicable, but Sakaki has a similar feat where he catches a glass of beer in the same style.
I was thinking about how it shows precision, timing, and muscle control of impressive degrees, but since they both have similar feats, it's a moot point
 
@Earl


You made that post, when i made my comment those weren't there, not that those mean anything in comparison to Sasaki's shit. Mainly because you originally made zero mention of the others and all you were talking about was Mantra. Which again, i see absolutley no reason how or why that would be superior to learning and mastering various techniques from animals over the course of years.


All of that is nice but still doesn't quite stack up to what Sasaki has learned from his time in nature. Sasaki has learned and mastered from more animals than what you've listed. To reiterate, nothing you've listed is beating Sasaki's animal skills. Try again mate. Sasaki took all of nature, not just a few animals.


So drop your bull shit Mantra argument because that isn't stacking up to the various techniques that Sasaki has learned. His enitre fighting style revolves around such ideals, as opposed to learning a singular move from an animal or a few techniques.


And once more, Sasaki is unparalleled in terms of skill in Shuumatsu, he scales massively above everyone's best feats. Beating everyone in the series isn't as notable whenever a lot of said fighters aren't even notable. And could you post scans of Hayato beatings every fighter in the verse at the same time? I'll be waiting for that.


Musashi who's the most seasoned swordsman in the verse at this point in time is unable to predict where Sasaki's blade is heading. Said technique is based on one of the many animals Sasaki learned from.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Also if Earl could actually start posting scans without forcing me to read enitre chapters of a manga I have no interest in reading that would be great.
Click to expand...
Why are you reading the chapter though? Just read the single page i link you to. Im not linking the chapter at random, im linking the page of that chapter that shows x feat.

As for the rest none of your links work. So i will be seeing how those animal feats fair up to the straight up hax these guys have with martial arts, when the links work. Maybe try another source.

Being unparalleled doesn't mean "he beats everyone in their best respective regards". If a swordsman beats a karate master. Doesn't mean he scales to the martial arts techniques, it means he is just more skilled for different reasons. As for Hayato beating everyone. It's a little indirect, but it's more like:

There are disciple classes, expert class, master class, supermaster class (and a class that i like to divide Ryouzanpaku Class, even though they are still supermasters they are far stronger than normal supermasters), advanced grandmaster class, and superhuman class.

A master class can absolutely desimate in seconds 1 Middle class Disciple, 5 very High Class Disciples and 2 Expert Class Disciples at the same time and have a basically non existent chance of losing (their chance of winning against the master class was 1/1 million). And this master class was trash even for master class levels.

A Supermaster class can literally toy with several Master class opponents. Example here is Sakaki trashing 8 Master Class opponents casually.

A Ryouzanpaku class like Shigure, held back 7 Supermaster Class opponents , and even though she's a weapons prodigy and stated by other ryouzanpaku class to be "just a maiden" without weapons. Basically toys with 3 supermaster class opponents at the same time using 1 hand while talking on the phone completely unarmed.

Then Advanced master class ppl basically laugh at these people, crushes them in moments.

And Hayato being superhuman class makes the strongest dude in advanced class just look at him and be like "i can't match you huh?". So it's basically a pyramid, this is why he can scale to everything the verse can do. Not simply "he's more skilled than everyone so he scales to everything at the same time".
 
@Earl


The links you've been providing haven't been taking me to said pages, they send me to the very start of the chapter for whatever reason making it difficult to actually find whatever feats you may post.


I'll fix the links at a later point then.


Um no, mate here you ******* go with your reaching again. Sasaki is objectively the best melee combatant Shuumatsu has to offer, Adam and Lu Bu were both melee combatants thus Sasaki scales above them. You really gotta quit attempting to apply your own bull shit to a series you haven't read. Sasaki scales above all of the combatants shown this far into the series.


That's all great however those aren't the scans i asked for. You made mention of Hayato being able to beat everyone in the verse at the same time, to which you haven't provided scans for. Simple as that, show me Hayato on his own beating every single character in his verse at the same time.
 
Hayato is indeed above everyone else in the verse with the exception of that dual sword wielding guy from Yomi and, maybe, Silkwat and Mikumi, but he couldn't defeat all of them at once, no. There's no case where this is shown or implied.

All in all though, I don't have too many thoughts on this if I can be frank and I don't think either has a leg up? But am more tempted to side with Sasaki so far.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Hayato is indeed above everyone else in the verse with the exception of that dual sword wielding guy from Yomi and, maybe, Silkwat and Mikumi, but he couldn't defeat all of them at once, no. There's no case where this is shown or implied.
All in all though, I don't have too many thoughts on this if I can be frank and I don't think either has a leg up? But am more tempted to side with Sasaki so far.
Click to expand...
Is that a vote, or are you waiting a bit longer before voting?
 
@Prince

Hmm, im not sure what the problem is. It's working fine for me.

k

Yes, Adam is a hand to hand combattant. Are you saying without a sword Sasaki would actually outskill Adam? Also Sasaki doesn't scale to Adam's copy feats. Adam is specifically better at those. But that's what it means to scale to "every feat" from someone.

@The Last point and Sir

Beating the Kenichi verse, amounts to about as much as beating the 3 Advanced Master class people. Or all ryouzanpaku class masters (Which Hayato easily shut down, when the Ryouzanpaku masters were having a debate over who was the strongest. As soon as Hayato wanted to join in, everyone just dropped the conversation.

It is the same as you don't need to beat all disciple class level people. Defeating a single master class level is WAY beyond that. That's the point of the pyramid. Hayato is above the 5 Ryouzanpaku, each of which can defeat many supermaster class at the same time, each of which can defeat 8 master class effortlessly, each of which can defeat everyone whose age is below 18 basically.
 
I'll take that as the "dodges people faster than his eyes can keep track of. Kenichi does the same the 1st time he uses Ryusui Seikuken (A move he learned from Hayato, and Hayato is a master at):

Casually starts dodging attacks effortlessly from Kunou who was previously far faster, almost blitzing him. Ryusoi Seikuken can deal with opponents who outclass Kenichi in every way, being much faster and stronger.

Hayato states that that move works when your opponent is faster than what your eyes can keep track of (similar to Sasaki's feat), and far stronger. And Kenichi fully dodges them instead of deflecting them.

He can also use amping techniques above that.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
I'll take that as the "dodges people faster than his eyes can keep track of. Kenichi does the same the 1st time he uses Ryusui Seikuken (A move he learned from Hayato, and Hayato is a master at):
Casually starts dodging attacks effortlessly from Kunou who was previously far faster, almost blitzing him. Ryusoi Seikuken can deal with opponents who outclass Kenichi in every way, being much faster and stronger.

Hayato states that that move works when your opponent is faster than what your eyes can keep track of (similar to Sasaki's feat), and far stronger. And Kenichi fully dodges them instead of deflecting them.

He can also use amping techniques above that.
Click to expand...
So in that regard, Sasaki's ability and Kenichi's ability seem comparable to some degree (though I don't doubt there will be agruments in regards to Sasaki's potency compared to Kenichi's), and Hayato scales above Kenichi.

Arguments for Sasaki?
 
Kenichi nor Hayato have dodging feats on Sasaki's caliber, that much I can guarantee you. Sasaki's deflected something that was miles above him in speed and left an after effect of Poseidon, creating a massive dome of his after images.
 
Just to say how much above Hayato scales from kenichi.

He closes his eyes, restricts his power to 1/1'000'000, and still desimates him casually.

Also there are 3 levels to Ryusui Seikuken. What Kenichi used to perform the feat above is level 1. Hayato is the creator of this technique. So you can guess how much better his version is.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Kenichi nor Hayato have dodging feats on Sasaki's caliber, that much I can guarantee you. Sasaki's deflected something that was miles above him in speed and left an after effect of Poseidon, creating a massive dome of his after images.
Click to expand...
Yet he was still capable of reacting to them. The only clear speed difference was when his eyes couldn't keep up which is the same for Kenichi.

And Sasaki didn't even dodge, he deflected.
 
The point is. If you put Hayato is the same scenario as Sasaki he'd perform the feat rather easily. Seikuken, Ryusui Seikuken and even the stat amp would be easily able to deal with the things even sasaki failed against.
 
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