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Snub Fighters/Millennium Falcon (Completed)
Millennium Falco
In this thread, I argued that Lando's Millennium Falco alone (equipped with the RM-76 heavy laser cannon) should be Large Town level through scaling to TIE Brutes, which have nearly twice the firepower of standard TIE Fighters (whose weapons can already one-shot starfighters with a direct hit). TIE Brutes are also equipped with H-s9.3 laser cannons, likely a heavier variety of the L-s9.3 employed by TIE Interceptors and Defenders.
Later, the Millennium Falco was upgraded with the more powerful AG-2G quad laser canno under Han Solo's leadership. The AG-2G is considered illegal military grade weapons that are increased by various gas feeds. In The Last Jedi, a single shot takes out 3 First Order TIE Fighters (this would be Large Town level, regardless), and it's implied to be suited for a much larger warship. So the difference between the RM-76 and AG-2G isn't small.
The Falcon's unshielded durability should stay the same, as it can be moderately damaged by standard First Order TIE Fighters.
TIE Defender/Interceptor
According to the Star Wars Encyclopedia of Starfighters and Other Vehicles, the L-s9.3 laser cannons on the underside of TIE Strikers are heavy weapons. The TIE TIE Fighter Owner's Manual also describes the TIE Defender Elite's cannons as heavy weapons. This is confirmed by Ezra, who states that TIE Defenders (standard ones, in this case) are equipped with heavy laser cannons.
First Order/sf TIE Fighters should be superior to TIE Brutes, as they carry heavy laser cannons that are directly powered by a deuterium cell, in contrast to the former's less advanced self-powered cannons. This only scales to their heavy cannons, however.
Kylo Ren's TIE Silencer carries two L-s9.6s and second set of L-7.5 heavy laser cannons. According to the Last Jedi Incredible Cross Sections and TIE Fighter Owner's Manual, these weapons are powerful enough to crack the durasteel armour of the Raddus, and it does exactly that by passing through its shield envelope in the film.
Mon Calamari Cruiser (Completed)
The point of this section is to prove that MC80 Star Cruisers should be straight up Large Island level.
Main Turbolaser Batteries
The main turbolaser batteries of an Imperial I-class isn't the XX9. It's actually the heavy double barreled port cannons you see during the Battle of Scarif. According to the Rogue One Visual Guide, Imperial-class Star Destroyers are more powerful than the Jedi Cruisers of old, so their main batteries scale to 200 gigatons.
The double 8 barreled turrets you see on the Chimera are probably just modifications, the original studio prop was double barreled. Regardless, this still confirms the XX9 aren't the main cannons. Also, the quad cannons are on the side ports, so they can't be the main turbolasers either, it's likely these are the point-defense turbolasers mentioned in Thrawn: Treaso.
While they do have superior shields, Return of the Jedi makes it clear that they aren't just designed for protection. They'd be slaughtered otherwise. (It's confirmed Lando is only refering to the Captial ships).
Supporting Feats
Here's some supporting feats
Darth Vader/Rey (Completed)
Vader's Force Mastery
In this thread, we discussed Vader returning to his High 7-A ratings. Here's the original justification.
According to Pablo Hidalgo, Vader was in his prime during Rebels. So this would also scale to Ahsoka, Maul and Obi-Wan. I would like to note, however, that they're weaker: Ahsoka would've lost, Darth Maul said he couldn't fight Vader on his ow, and Kenobi (more atrophied than was shown in the film) was outmatched according to From A Certain Point Of View: Time Of Death.
I cannot find anything in canon about Darth Vader's armour being constructed from durasteel. Only one thing seems to support this (potentially along with another guide Soldier Blue brought up) is the canon Learn to Draw Star Wars: Villains: Draw favorite Star Wars Villains. However, this is contradicted by Lords of the Sith and Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: The Visual Dictionary.
As a final nail in the coffin, I can't find a single canonical source that states AT-DPs are constructed of durasteel either. So, instead of scaling Vader to AT-DPs, I suggest he's scaled by his own feats, the fact that his armour is blast dampening and maybe Sidon Ithano's plasteel armour (there's also a couple sources mentioning Vader's is made of plastoid). Here's a few times where he takes blasters with little actual damage.
The last shot is particularly interesting. It implies the blaster bolt pierced his armour, but was dissipated enough for him to survive. For reference, TK-462, a stormtrooper, was killed by a similar injury, potentially meaning Vader's armour is more durable.
Rey is clearly much stronger than before in The Rise of Skywalker, as she's much further along in her training from Leia. She also overpowered (something Kylo also did) and accidentally destroyed a First Order transport, which is marginally larger, much bulkier and more heavily armoured than the heavily outdated Maxillipede shuttle, and actually carries deflector shields.
Rey Empowered Key
Something about her being amped. I don't remember, I kind of zoned out here. Apparently she was given power by a bunch of Jedi, including Luke Skywalker, his father Anakin, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Ahsoka Tano, Mace Windu, Luminara Unduli, Aayla Secura, Kanan Jarrus, and Adi Gallia to defeat Palpatine.
Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker - Rey vs Palpatine Scene (Palpatine's Death) HD
Miscellaneous
Interdictor Cannons
The Interdictor-class isn't actually equipped with Turbolasers, only Quad Laser cannons from what I can find. Said cannons are powerful enough to quickly take dow a disabled Nebulon-B Escort Frigate, meaning they should probably scale to the regular laser cannons on an Imperial-class Star Destroyer.
They were able to damage a Quasar Fire-class cruiser, but their plan was to ram the interdictor, so it's possible they diverted all power to forward shields like Hera suggests in Alphabet Squadro.
Quoting from here.
"In both the original and revised cuts, the Death Star never experiences the aftermath or debris from Alderaan's destruction, and wouldn't so much as approach Dwarf Star level if it did. At a range of 26,168 kilometers, the Death Star (which has diameter of 160 km and a rough surface area of 80424771931.9 m^2) would only experience less than a 106,000th of the explosion's full energy, assuming it was hit in the first place, and the debris aren't any higher.
While I'm not going to argue that the Starkiller Base's Deflectors shouldn't scale to the Death Star's (I firmly believe the opposite, actually), it also has no reason to withstand the aftermath of a planet's destruction. It's consistently stated that the Starkiller's range is enormous—so large the base can hit targets from half-way across the galaxy, like the Hosnian System. At this range, it would take tens to hundreds of thousands of years before the fragments of a planet strike the Starkiller, assuming they're moving at near-light speeds and don't stop at all.
So I was thinking of Continent level to Multi-Continent level shields because there's quite a few vessels with this kind of durability. I'd imagine the Starkiller Base would scale at least, since it's not obsolete. Also, the shields of the Death Star II were totally impervious to a fleet of Starcruisers, which somewhat scale to Star Destroyers that have destroyed the surfaces of planets with orbital bombardments."
B-Wing Shields
In Star Wars Rebels, a prototype B-Wing could tank the laser cannons of an Imperial Light Cruiser with minimal damage, whereas the Ghost was damaged by a much smaller volley from a far greater range. This would probably put it into the City level range. The B-Wing is also fitted with a totally different shielding system than standard starfighters, so this doesn't scale to them.
Clone Wars Fighters (Completed)
According to the Falcon's profile, its laser cannon is in the same league as heavy starfighter grade laser cannons on the Eta-2 interceptor and ARC-170. But these are Clone Wars era weapons, while TIE Fighters are equipped more advanced military-grade weapons and was based off these ships to an extent. Also, I highly doubt they'd actually be stronger than the heavy cannons on the Slave I given that Obi-Wan's Eta-2 was heavily outclassed by the ship, and these weapons were added to the craft instead of being standard additions on the Firespray-31 line.
Also, Droid and Clone Wars Starfighters are also considered antiques just 5 years after the Clone Wars in Tarki.
In Issue #1, an unknown force creates a large storm cloud over a Jedi Temple, which produces a massive blast of lightning that partially destroys it. It's most likely that Snoke did it: for one, Kylo Ren can't use force lightning, and it's explicitly stated he's been trained to be powerful but never use his abilities so destructively. It's also implied the force that was speaking to him was Snoke, not Palpatine.
In Issue #2, Luke Skywalker grossly outclasses the entire Knights of Re. They're not fully trained, but they fought with Kylo Ren and surpassed his Padawan self in 28 BBY, when was 22 or 23. I'm fairly sure he should be stronger and faster than Ezra, since he's older, descended from some of the most powerful Sith and Jedi, and trained under Luke Skywalker (Post-Endor) himself, who did have access to Jedi Holocrons from Jocasta Nu's collection.
Conclusion
If accepted
Millennium Falco
In this thread, I argued that Lando's Millennium Falco alone (equipped with the RM-76 heavy laser cannon) should be Large Town level through scaling to TIE Brutes, which have nearly twice the firepower of standard TIE Fighters (whose weapons can already one-shot starfighters with a direct hit). TIE Brutes are also equipped with H-s9.3 laser cannons, likely a heavier variety of the L-s9.3 employed by TIE Interceptors and Defenders.
Later, the Millennium Falco was upgraded with the more powerful AG-2G quad laser canno under Han Solo's leadership. The AG-2G is considered illegal military grade weapons that are increased by various gas feeds. In The Last Jedi, a single shot takes out 3 First Order TIE Fighters (this would be Large Town level, regardless), and it's implied to be suited for a much larger warship. So the difference between the RM-76 and AG-2G isn't small.
The Falcon's unshielded durability should stay the same, as it can be moderately damaged by standard First Order TIE Fighters.
TIE Defender/Interceptor
According to the Star Wars Encyclopedia of Starfighters and Other Vehicles, the L-s9.3 laser cannons on the underside of TIE Strikers are heavy weapons. The TIE TIE Fighter Owner's Manual also describes the TIE Defender Elite's cannons as heavy weapons. This is confirmed by Ezra, who states that TIE Defenders (standard ones, in this case) are equipped with heavy laser cannons.
- EZRA: Get out of there, both of you. I know that ship. It's a prototype TIE Defender. It's armed with heavy cannons and shields.
- HERA: Just concentrate your fire. Their shields can't last forever.
- ZEB: Yeah? Well, tell that to them.
- HERA: They may have the better fighters, but we've still got the better pilot.
- Tasked personally by Darth Vader with a mission to destroy all children of the Force, the Inquisitor was given access to the Empire's latest technologies. The Inquisitor's TIE Advanced prototype was superior to typical TIE fighters, featuring faster engines, S-foils with more efficient solar gather panels, upgraded laser cannons, and a projectile launcher that fired Imperial XX-23 S-Thread Tracers.
- Darth Vader piloted this distinctive experimental TIE fighter above the first Death Star, using its blaster cannons and his uncanny abilities with the Force to blast Rebel starfighters into glittering fragments.
First Order/sf TIE Fighters should be superior to TIE Brutes, as they carry heavy laser cannons that are directly powered by a deuterium cell, in contrast to the former's less advanced self-powered cannons. This only scales to their heavy cannons, however.
Kylo Ren's TIE Silencer carries two L-s9.6s and second set of L-7.5 heavy laser cannons. According to the Last Jedi Incredible Cross Sections and TIE Fighter Owner's Manual, these weapons are powerful enough to crack the durasteel armour of the Raddus, and it does exactly that by passing through its shield envelope in the film.
Mon Calamari Cruiser (Completed)
The point of this section is to prove that MC80 Star Cruisers should be straight up Large Island level.
Main Turbolaser Batteries
The main turbolaser batteries of an Imperial I-class isn't the XX9. It's actually the heavy double barreled port cannons you see during the Battle of Scarif. According to the Rogue One Visual Guide, Imperial-class Star Destroyers are more powerful than the Jedi Cruisers of old, so their main batteries scale to 200 gigatons.
The double 8 barreled turrets you see on the Chimera are probably just modifications, the original studio prop was double barreled. Regardless, this still confirms the XX9 aren't the main cannons. Also, the quad cannons are on the side ports, so they can't be the main turbolasers either, it's likely these are the point-defense turbolasers mentioned in Thrawn: Treaso.
- "Normally, they're not," Thrawn said. "But our thief was somewhat more ambitious. He found a way to shuffle some of the cargoes around at an intermediary point in such a way that more valuable components were swapped out for some of the lower-level ones. Specifically, he obtained components for point-defense turbolaser batteries." Faro felt her eyes widen. "How many?" "We believe eight full sets have been stolen. If the thief is also working other supply lines, he may have obtained more." Faro nodded. Point-defense turbolasers weren't as powerful as the Chimaera's main weaponry, but they were a vital component of a ship's or battle platform's defense against missiles, enemy starfighters, or even just wayward meteors.
While they do have superior shields, Return of the Jedi makes it clear that they aren't just designed for protection. They'd be slaughtered otherwise. (It's confirmed Lando is only refering to the Captial ships).
- LANDO: Yes! I said closer! Move as close as you can and engage those Star Destroyers at point-blank range.
- ACKBAR: At that close range, we won't last long against those Star Destroyers.
- LANDO: We'll last longer then we will against that Death Star...and we might just take a few of them with us.
- The Rebel cruisers move very close to the Imperial Star Destroyers and begin to blast away at point-blank range. Tiny fighters race across the giant surfaces, against a backdrop of laser fire.
Supporting Feats
Here's some supporting feats
- The Aspiration defeats a Victory-class Star Destroyer.
- The MC80 star cruiser is the Rebellion's best answer to the Imperial-class Star Destroyer, but they are in no way equivalent. There are numerous differences between them, and the wise admiral will be certain to study them, understand them, and adapt his tactics to account for them.
- There are tremendous differences in the strengths of the galaxy's many starships. Still, despite all the firepower that a Star Destroyer can bring to bear against a fleet of Corellian corvettes or that a Mon Calamari cruiser can direct against an isolated Imperial Arquitens-class Light Cruiser, the greatest fleet battles of Star Wars have often turned upon the actions of a single fighter pilot.
- Boasting battery armaments of six dice from both its left and right hull zones, the MC80 star cruiser is as hard-hitting as a Victory-class Star Destroyer and the Rebellion's best answer to the Imperial-class Star Destroyer. Better yet, this Mon Calamari starship is even more powerful when flown under the command of Admiral Ackbar, who can add two red attack dice to any attack made by a starship that fires only from its left and right hull zones during its activation.
- In Battlefield II, a Mon Calamari and Imperial-class trade blows. After being disabled, the Cruiser blows up the Star Destroyer.
- The (possibly heavy) quad turbolasers of a Lucrehulk-class Battleship can quickly penetrate and eat through the shields of an Arquitens-class Light Cruiser.
- But the U-Wing was a gunship designed to deliver troops, capable of holding its own against a light cruiser and compact and maneuverable enough to survive a dogfight. She could imagine it looked like an appealing ally.
- She assigned the slower vessels—the Y-Wing and B-Wing, both poorly designed for atmospheric flight—to patrols closer to the citadel, while the A- and X-Wings patrolled farther out. The U-Wing could substitute for any single vessel. The resulting schedule appalled Quell's sensibilities: She didn't trust Chadic to fly with Tensent. She didn't want to leave Lark and Kairos without support. She didn't believe any of them would coordinate, following their assigned patrol routes and covering all necessary ground.
Darth Vader/Rey (Completed)
Vader's Force Mastery
In this thread, we discussed Vader returning to his High 7-A ratings. Here's the original justification.
- Durability: likely Large Mountain level with Force amplification (Appears capable of erecting a barrier powerful enough to cause Proton Torpedoes to veer off course and defend himself from the explosions)
According to Pablo Hidalgo, Vader was in his prime during Rebels. So this would also scale to Ahsoka, Maul and Obi-Wan. I would like to note, however, that they're weaker: Ahsoka would've lost, Darth Maul said he couldn't fight Vader on his ow, and Kenobi (more atrophied than was shown in the film) was outmatched according to From A Certain Point Of View: Time Of Death.
- "You should not have come back," Vader tells me. My resources are depleted, my body screaming with pain. I have no hope of winning this fight. He lunges at me; slash and counterslash, stab and riposte. The air is thick with plasma discharge, lights dancing on the edge of my vision. I'm forced back, muscles burning, breath ragged. The grip of my lightsaber is slick in my hands, my ears ringing. [...] "Ben?" Luke's cry echoes across the landing bay. There he is, watching us fight, the open hatch of the freighter behind him. He knows full well that I cannot win. He is frozen with shock, unsure what to do, but that won't last long. Soon, the spell will be broken and he will come running. Those brave, defiant eyes will be cut down in a blaze of trooper fire. He needs more than a toy fighter this time. He needs to escape; to save himself, not me. Go to him. [...] Even if I tried, I couldn't outrun a blaster shot, not anymore. I'll never make it to Luke's side in time to save him.
I cannot find anything in canon about Darth Vader's armour being constructed from durasteel. Only one thing seems to support this (potentially along with another guide Soldier Blue brought up) is the canon Learn to Draw Star Wars: Villains: Draw favorite Star Wars Villains. However, this is contradicted by Lords of the Sith and Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker: The Visual Dictionary.
- Drawing on the Force, he activated the automated arm. It descended and the helmet and faceplate wrapped his head in metal and plasteel, the shell in which he existed.
- In a climate-controlled reliquary lies the twisted plasteel, warped by funeral pyre, that once concealed a face ravaged by flame.
As a final nail in the coffin, I can't find a single canonical source that states AT-DPs are constructed of durasteel either. So, instead of scaling Vader to AT-DPs, I suggest he's scaled by his own feats, the fact that his armour is blast dampening and maybe Sidon Ithano's plasteel armour (there's also a couple sources mentioning Vader's is made of plastoid). Here's a few times where he takes blasters with little actual damage.
The last shot is particularly interesting. It implies the blaster bolt pierced his armour, but was dissipated enough for him to survive. For reference, TK-462, a stormtrooper, was killed by a similar injury, potentially meaning Vader's armour is more durable.
- It was chaos, blaster fire all around. Another trooper called for help. I turned my head for a second, and that's when she shot me. I didn't actually hear the shot, but I felt all my insides move away from the blast point in a nanosecond. There was no point in looking at it. She got me good. I just fell to my knees—that part happened all on its own—and I removed my helmet. It felt good. The breeze on my face, the smells, peripheral vision. And here we are. I'm dying.
- Bounding off its back, he rushed among the seething mass of lyleks, heedless now of their stabbing limbs and biting teeth, his lightsaber severing legs, tentacles, heads, mandibles, covering the floor in ichor-soaked body parts. Impacts from the tentacles and legs and hulking bodies barely moved him. None penetrated his armor, and what little pain they managed to inflict could not surpass the pain he carried always within him.
- Meanwhile the spiked leg from another lylek slammed into his back. His armor prevented the limb from skewering him, but the impact drove him back toward the charging lylek.
Rey is clearly much stronger than before in The Rise of Skywalker, as she's much further along in her training from Leia. She also overpowered (something Kylo also did) and accidentally destroyed a First Order transport, which is marginally larger, much bulkier and more heavily armoured than the heavily outdated Maxillipede shuttle, and actually carries deflector shields.
Rey Empowered Key
Something about her being amped. I don't remember, I kind of zoned out here. Apparently she was given power by a bunch of Jedi, including Luke Skywalker, his father Anakin, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Ahsoka Tano, Mace Windu, Luminara Unduli, Aayla Secura, Kanan Jarrus, and Adi Gallia to defeat Palpatine.
Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker - Rey vs Palpatine Scene (Palpatine's Death) HD
Miscellaneous
Interdictor Cannons
The Interdictor-class isn't actually equipped with Turbolasers, only Quad Laser cannons from what I can find. Said cannons are powerful enough to quickly take dow a disabled Nebulon-B Escort Frigate, meaning they should probably scale to the regular laser cannons on an Imperial-class Star Destroyer.
They were able to damage a Quasar Fire-class cruiser, but their plan was to ram the interdictor, so it's possible they diverted all power to forward shields like Hera suggests in Alphabet Squadro.
- "We have to get in there," she called. "We have to help them. Tell our ships to divert all power to forward shields and ram straight through if they have to!"
Quoting from here.
"In both the original and revised cuts, the Death Star never experiences the aftermath or debris from Alderaan's destruction, and wouldn't so much as approach Dwarf Star level if it did. At a range of 26,168 kilometers, the Death Star (which has diameter of 160 km and a rough surface area of 80424771931.9 m^2) would only experience less than a 106,000th of the explosion's full energy, assuming it was hit in the first place, and the debris aren't any higher.
While I'm not going to argue that the Starkiller Base's Deflectors shouldn't scale to the Death Star's (I firmly believe the opposite, actually), it also has no reason to withstand the aftermath of a planet's destruction. It's consistently stated that the Starkiller's range is enormous—so large the base can hit targets from half-way across the galaxy, like the Hosnian System. At this range, it would take tens to hundreds of thousands of years before the fragments of a planet strike the Starkiller, assuming they're moving at near-light speeds and don't stop at all.
So I was thinking of Continent level to Multi-Continent level shields because there's quite a few vessels with this kind of durability. I'd imagine the Starkiller Base would scale at least, since it's not obsolete. Also, the shields of the Death Star II were totally impervious to a fleet of Starcruisers, which somewhat scale to Star Destroyers that have destroyed the surfaces of planets with orbital bombardments."
B-Wing Shields
In Star Wars Rebels, a prototype B-Wing could tank the laser cannons of an Imperial Light Cruiser with minimal damage, whereas the Ghost was damaged by a much smaller volley from a far greater range. This would probably put it into the City level range. The B-Wing is also fitted with a totally different shielding system than standard starfighters, so this doesn't scale to them.
Clone Wars Fighters (Completed)
According to the Falcon's profile, its laser cannon is in the same league as heavy starfighter grade laser cannons on the Eta-2 interceptor and ARC-170. But these are Clone Wars era weapons, while TIE Fighters are equipped more advanced military-grade weapons and was based off these ships to an extent. Also, I highly doubt they'd actually be stronger than the heavy cannons on the Slave I given that Obi-Wan's Eta-2 was heavily outclassed by the ship, and these weapons were added to the craft instead of being standard additions on the Firespray-31 line.
Also, Droid and Clone Wars Starfighters are also considered antiques just 5 years after the Clone Wars in Tarki.
- Same cobbled-together Providence-class warship, same swarm of droid fighters and antique starfighters. Only this time he was commanding the counteroffensive, and instead of Sentinel Base the enemy's objectives were the hyperdrive components he had been worried about since leaving for Coruscant. Pivoting away from the viewports, he made his way down the observation gallery to watch a simulation of the attack resolve above a holotable. The spherical defense mounted by the Imperial escorts was being dismantled by steady fire from the warships; pieces of gunboats and frigates drifted through a frenzied nimbus of ARC-170s and droid starfighters in pitched combat.
In Issue #1, an unknown force creates a large storm cloud over a Jedi Temple, which produces a massive blast of lightning that partially destroys it. It's most likely that Snoke did it: for one, Kylo Ren can't use force lightning, and it's explicitly stated he's been trained to be powerful but never use his abilities so destructively. It's also implied the force that was speaking to him was Snoke, not Palpatine.
In Issue #2, Luke Skywalker grossly outclasses the entire Knights of Re. They're not fully trained, but they fought with Kylo Ren and surpassed his Padawan self in 28 BBY, when was 22 or 23. I'm fairly sure he should be stronger and faster than Ezra, since he's older, descended from some of the most powerful Sith and Jedi, and trained under Luke Skywalker (Post-Endor) himself, who did have access to Jedi Holocrons from Jocasta Nu's collection.
Conclusion
If accepted
- TIE TIE Advanced V1 and V2s, Interceptors, Defenders and First Order variants become At least Town level+.
- All scaling to the Slave I's laser cannons gets removed (they'd still be Town level+, regardless, and probably should scale to its blaser cannons).
- The Millennium Falco and the TIE special forces' heavy weapons become Large Town level and Clone Wars era fighters don't scale to them anymore.
- The TIE Silencer's heavy weapons become Mountain level (same yield as torpedoes).
- Mon Calamari Cruisers are straight up Large Island level.
- Darth Vader becomes Large Mountain level and has Small Building level armour.
- Rey "Skywalker" becomes Island level and gets a Rise of Skywalker key.
- The Death Star and Starkiller Base's shields become Multi-Continent level.
- B-Wing's shields become City level.
- The Interdictor's quad laser cannons become City level, possibly Island level.
