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True magic god resist

Oma-Zi_o022

Oma-Zi_o022

97
6
They should have resist to Mind and Soul hax By look at chimera

Edit: They should have resist to all abilites of other magic god

MG all abilites: Death Manipulation, Time Manipulation,Reality Warping ,Spatial Manipulation, BFR(Teleport), Energy Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Element Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Fear Aura, Physics Manipulation, Mathematics Manipulation, Void Manipulation, Durability Negation, Causality Manipulation, Magic.
 
Personally I would be ok with that, though one can argue that it is more a matter of them being able to bear that level of beauty more than being able to resists the effects of being unable to bear it.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Personally I would be ok with that, though one can argue that it is more a matter of them being able to bear that level of beauty more than being able to resists the effects of being unable to bear it.
Click to expand...
They're able to perceive her and her voice just fine, and Kamisato had his body, mind, and soul attacked by just hearing her. One could say they're able to bare it but that's because they can resist its affects. It's like being able to look at a Lovecraft Eldergod, you'd get some hefty resistances if you could understand them without going mad. So I think they should be added.
 
This seems to probably be fine then.
 
They're able to perceive her and her voice just fine, and Kamisato had his body, mind, and soul attacked by just hearing her. One could say they're able to bare it but that's because they can resist its affects. It's like being able to look at a Lovecraft Eldergod, you'd get some hefty resistances if you could understand them without going mad. So I think they should be added.

I seen you said about MG resist likely them should has more resist?
 
Is somebody reasonably experienced willing to apply this then?
 
It's suggested that gods in general are not bothered by Chimera's beauty, so for Othinus' full power key that should be fine, I think.
 
Done.

Btw. when we're already talking about the magic gods, it's high time to separate Othinus' P&A section into keys. 50/50 & Full Magic God Othinus have basically the same abilities, but dying through a fairy spell Othinus should only have what she demonstrated.
 
Also, shouldn't MG's have probability resistance as well thanks to their passive manipulation? I'm tempted to say MG's should also get resistance to all the abilities they can use in terms of Phase Magic since all magic gods are only capable of stalemating eachother, but at the very least probability resistance should be a thing.
 
DontTalk's suggestion is probably fine.
 
Accelerate420 said:
Also, shouldn't MG's have probability resistance as well thanks to their passive manipulation? I'm tempted to say MG's should also get resistance to all the abilities they can use in terms of Phase Magic since all magic gods are only capable of stalemating eachother, but at the very least probability resistance should be a thing.
Click to expand...
No, the idea that just because two people can fight each other they should resist all of each others abilities is too much speculation. We don't really have much word on what would happen if they fight each other at full power in the first place.

The only one that I see probability resistance for is Othinus (the latter two keys), due to Gugnir and the fairy spell putting her at 100% win or fail. For the others we have no info on that.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Accelerate420 said:
Also, shouldn't MG's have probability resistance as well thanks to their passive manipulation? I'm tempted to say MG's should also get resistance to all the abilities they can use in terms of Phase Magic since all magic gods are only capable of stalemating eachother, but at the very least probability resistance should be a thing.
Click to expand...
No, the idea that just because two people can fight each other they should resist all of each others abilities is too much speculation. We don't really have much word on what would happen if they fight each other at full power in the first place.
The only one that I see probability resistance for is Othinus (the latter two keys), due to Gugnir and the fairy spell putting her at 100% win or fail. For the others we have no info on that.
Click to expand...
All Magic Gods with their Phase ability places them at 100% passive probabiltiy manip though? That's just a function shared by all the Gods.
 
No all Magic Gods are able to manipulate Phases regardless of their win/loss ratio. 100% was something that was specifically stated for Othinus, Ture Gremlin never stated anything about thier win/loss status.
 
JBennett said:
No all Magic Gods are able to manipulate Phases regardless of their win/loss ratio. 100% was something that was specifically stated for Othinus, Ture Gremlin never stated anything about thier win/loss status.
Click to expand...
All Magic Gods embody the perfect existence and transcend the God Paradox. Are you telling me Othinus, who is a failure of a Magic God to them, has such a huge edge over them as Probability Manip like that? Really? Do I really need to explain you what the term Magic God is?

Being a Magic God is akin to being the purest, most perfect existence that encompasses every possibility. However, because of this, the Magic God can also control both positive and negative possibilities. In essence, the Magic God has an equal chance of attaining the possibility of succeeding as well as failing, making everything relating to the Magic God's magic a 50/50 shot. This comes from the principle of the Omnipotence Paradox, which asks "if an omnipotent being can do anything, can it deny itself?"; i.e: could an omnipotent being create a rock it can't lift?

This isn't limited to Othinus. Othinus can only attain True Status through Gungnir, whereas all True Gremlin are already in their perfect states and thus transcend the paradox. Can you guys maybe re-read the light novels if you're going to spread misinformation?

There is also the possibility of being an impure Magic God, meaning that the magician seeking to become a Magic God stopped their growth right when they should have become one. Because of that, the impure Magic God's overall powers are weaker, but there is no 50/50 restriction like a pure Magic God.

Meaning literally that True Gremlin don't have the 50/50 restriction as they've already attained their perfect forms. I know ToAru gets downplayed sometimes, but this is ridiculous.
 
Accelerate420 said:
All Magic Gods with their Phase ability places them at 100% passive probabiltiy manip though? That's just a function shared by all the Gods.
Click to expand...
We actually have no statements regarding the other gods. Yes, they have to have overcome the omnipotence paradox situation by some means, but there is no rule that this mean has to be probability manipulation related.

For all we know they could have found different solutions to the same problem.

ZERO7772 said:
The downplay is real, so Othinus can solo all true magic gods with timp stop and Probability Manip now?
Click to expand...
For a start you solo nobody via probability manip and as they have Immeasurable speed time stop is irrelevant.

That aside, as far as I am aware we have no solid statement regarding what would even happen if they fought. Niang Niang once stated in their nerfed state that a MG should be able to tank one hit from another MG, but, as said, that was in their nerfed states and whether "one hit" considers hax isn't known either. For all we know they could oneshot each other with reality warping.

Of course the MG's can also exist in the hidden world that survived the rewriting of phases, so phase magic in particular might be something they can escape from. Just that that has no relevance at all outside of to aru, because phases are such a specific concept.

And as said above my general stance is that just because two characters are said to be able to fight that doesn't mean they resist all of each others abilities.
 
>Niang Niang once stated in their nerfed state that a MG should be able to tank one hit from another MG, but, as said, that was in their nerfed states and whether "one hit" considers hax isn't known either.

This is absolutely ridiculous. What is so fundamentally different between FP magic gods and nerfed ones? And why would Ning Ning statment only applies to their nerfed status? She didn't refer to their nerfed status specifically when she was talking about them fighting each other so any normal person would assume she was talking genreally, if she was talking about their nerfed status she would NOTICE that. You want everything laid out literally for you to even consider the idea DT?

I mean yeah, not shit! Nerfed magic gods can fight each other, even other top tier Toaru character can fight them. Do they have to point that for us?

>And as said above my general stance is that just because two characters are said to be able to fight that doesn't mean they resist all of each others abilities.

No. Unless the verse rules proves for raw power to overcome hax "which isnt the case in Toaru" you can't fight a reality-warping dude without resisting it or having equal hax to counter it, It's just common sense.
 
Are you kidding me???? Dude. It's literally stated that an incomplete Magic God is stuck at 50/50. This isn't related to Othinus only. How are you this selective in your reading bias dude? I think you're in for a re-read because I just spelled it out completely for you in the text, that it was defining what a 'Magic God' is. Not what OTHINUS IS.
 
The omnipotent paradox is LITERALLY a probability paradox in Index. That's what it's defined by. Because you can't answer 100% whether a god can create an equal god or not, or something above it, so it's 50/50. But since they transcend the paradox that's why they're 100%. It's spelled out for you in the test so plainly.
 
well a fight between magic gods would always end in stalemate , that's the reason why they created gremlin

all of the are pretty much invulnerable and able to fully understand spell at glances (ex they already understood aleister spell that nerfed them) so any attack would have no effect and be easily copied and anything they could do with magic would already be possible with phases manipulation which is useless against each other

the whole discussion in nt 13 is about they can't decide who is right and if they fistfight it would just end with a broken world and status quo as they can eliminate each other
 
Malox1696 said:
well a fight between magic gods would always end in stalemate , that's the reason why they created gremlin
all of the are pretty much invulnerable and able to fully understand spell at glances (ex they already understood aleister spell that nerfed them) so any attack would have no effect and be easily copied and anything they could do with magic would already be possible with phases manipulation which is useless against each other

the whole discussion in nt 13 is about they can't decide who is right and if they fistfight it would just end with a broken world and status quo as they can eliminate each other
Click to expand...
That's not really what's being discussed here.
 
magic gods should resist each other powers because we know they agreed on making gremlin instead of endless fighting which would destroy the world because they couldn't agree with each other but can't kill each other, so they can't have 1 god for 1 world
 
MG's should resist eachothers powers because it'd be an endless fight with no end because they can't really kill eachother. All hax used is just hax auto-countered because they control the same forces. So if they're hit with a tier of say Fate Hax, they could just auto manipulate it back to normal to where it has no effect. At the very least they'd get resistances to everything below the tier of their abilities.
 
Accelerate420 said:
MG's should resist eachothers powers because it'd be an endless fight with no end because they can't really kill eachother. All hax used is just hax auto-countered because they control the same forces. So if they're hit with a tier of say Fate Hax, they could just auto manipulate it back to normal to where it has no effect.
Click to expand...
Using your own ability to counter another ability isn't a resistance. If two MG's use their fate manipulation to counter each others fate manipulation that is no feat of resistance.

ZERO7772 said:
This is absolutely ridiculous. What is so fundamentally different between FP magic gods and nerfed ones? And why would Ning Ning statment only applies to their nerfed status? She didn't refer to their nerfed status specifically when she was talking about them fighting each other so any normal person would assume she was talking genreally, if she was talking about their nerfed status she would NOTICE that. You want everything laid out literally for you to even consider the idea DT?
Click to expand...
What makes FP and Nerfed MG's fundamentally different is several levels of infinity and a ton of hax.

She was saying this in the context of launching an attack at other magic gods while in nerfed state. Putting this to a general level is pure speculation.

I mean yeah said:
The omnipotent paradox is LITERALLY a probability paradox in Index. That's what it's defined by. Because you can't answer 100% whether a god can create an equal god or not, or something above it, so it's 50/50. But since they transcend the paradox that's why they're 100%. It's spelled out for you in the test so plainly.
Click to expand...
There is no rule that you only can escape the 50/50 by manipulating probability. That is only the solution Othinus used.

Another MG could for example have invented a spell or created an object that negates the paradox, so that no coin flip occurs whichs probability needs to be manipulated.

We are never told how they resolved the 50/50 problem and extrapolating from one point of data is unjustified.
 
Now that's a reach if I ever heard one.

50/50 is a probability paradox like I explained. Gungnir also doesn't manipulate probability dude, it just completes her power as a Magic God. Norse Gods need their weapons to define their true power, whereas someone like High Priest is defined through the Six Paths for example.

All Magic Gods if they're incomplete are under a 50/50 restriction as they become limited to the God Paradox which is a 50/50 probability paradox, and by being a True MG you go beyond that paradox by being able to make everything 100%. It's simple stuff stated directly in the text. What you're doing is ignoring direct text correlations to how MG's work. I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on not accepting canon descriptions on what a Magic God is, but at this point I'm just going to agree to disagree I guess.
 
Actually, better yet, can you post proof in the text where it supports your claim that Probability is only limited to Othinus?
 
All Gungir did was enable Othinus to control her power, just like how the Fairy Spell caused her have all of her possibilities end in failure, Gunier caused her to have all her possibilities end in success.

"She crushed one of the eight petals underfoot and stared at the face of the girl-shaped
specimen.
With one hand, she thrust her fingers toward that specimen's chest as if attempting to
crush it.
The screaming and singing did not stop.
Othinus forced her hand inside and grabbed the area corresponding to a human's lungs.
She squeezed like a pump to force air out....
"…"
The white flower crumbled. Brown and black stains and wrinkles spread across it, so it
could no longer be called "white".
Even so, the voice continued.
Dark red blood trickled from Othinus's eyepatch.
She had immense power, but things did not always progress as she wanted because herinfinite possibilities held an equal number of successes and failures.
Sticky sounds could be heard.
It was impossible to distinguish the sounds of the magic god crumbling from those of the
flower crumbling.
Finally, the cruelly decomposed flower bent at the neck and the entire head fell to the
poolside floor. It completely burst with a splatting sound. It looked like the remains of a
fruit that no one had picked and not even any animals had shown interest in.
The singing stopped"

This is an example of 50/50 possibility, she is capable of useing her powers but it CAN rebound againts her causeing damage.

"Now that it had come to this, the completion of Gungnir did not matter.
It was not a spiritual item that amplified a magician's power. It was nothing more than atool to control a magic god's great power and make it easier to use. Now that Othinus hadlost her power as a magic god, it would not benefit her in any way.
It was all over.
The infinite possibilities had left her grasp.
As those thoughts filled Ollerus's mind, he saw something he could not believe.

But that could not be. Ollerus could not believe it. He could see no way it was possible.
Othinus had been struck by the fairy spell and thus lost her power as a magic god. Creating
the lance no longer had any meaning and Gremlin had lost the symbol behind the
organization.
There was nothing that could lead to her victory now.
Or at least, there should not have been.
"Even if I do not win, that's fine with me," said the eyepatch-wearing girl in a groan. "What
matters is unifying my infinite possibilities. Success and failure were always half and half. No matter how much experience I built up and no matter how great a defeat I suffered, it had no bearing on what would happen next time. I never knew which direction to work in or which way to turn. …I wanted the lance to escape that situation. Instead of having half success and half failure, I would have 100% success."
"You can't mean…"
Ollerus finally caught on.
But this truth was truly a nightmare.
"You can't mean!!"
"I only needed it to lean in one direction or the other," she announced as a grin split across
her face. "It did not matter if I completed the lance and gained 100% success or became a fairy and gained 100% failure. My actions were sealed by the constant 50% balancebetween success and failure. I could never know if my actions had achieved heads or tails, so I could never know if I could build on top of that actio. Moving forward with constant heads is one possible path. But if I know every path I choose will come up tails, I can achieve 100% success by always moving in the opposite direction of the path I choose!! Failing as a magic god acts as a guidepost towards success as a magic god!! …You two meant nothing from the beginning. Whether I won or lost, you could not stop me from
becoming a complete magic god!!"
If she had won, she would have become a complete magic god.
If she had lost, she would have become a complete magic god.

Gunir was never a wepon that amplifies her power but rather makes allways have a 100% success rate no matter what she did, just like how the Fairy spell not only weakend and depowered her but also have her have a 100% failure Rate however due to her natural intelegence she was able to used her 100% falure as a guidepost. Magic Gods are concidered incomplete in their 50/50 rate due to them not being able to know how their actions will resulted as while 100% is a state where their actions are known and theirfor can be understood hense the 'complete'.

True Gremlin has never mentioned anything about their status on 50/50 just that they are so powerful that they can destroy the world just by moving an arm or a leg.

"Success and failure, heads and tails… None of it matters to me anymore," said the girl
with the smile splitting her face. She spread her arms as if welcoming an old friend. "After
coming this far, do you really think you have any chance of fighting back? The two of you
were only able to crawl through the dirt because you could not leave the territory of fragile
children of man. Kneel before me as you witness history. This is 100% success!!"

She was able to use her full powers not because Gunir amplify her power but because she was able to unify her possibilites towards a single direction because no matter the outcome if it can be understood it can be taken advantage of.

Kamijou had lost again and again and used those losses to analyze Othinus's combat
patterns. That was why he could battle this Magic God. However, that had only bee
Othinus when wielding her lance. That had been Othinus with her positive possibilities.
He had not been able to accurately pursue her actions once she opened up the negative
possibilities using the fairy spell. That was why he had made a mistake at the very, very
end.

When she had her possibilities headed towards negative she was able to win due to knowing that her actions would end in faliure her status as a true Magic God remained and was still able to use her powers without consequenses.

As we are trying to say, there is no information that True Gremlin doesn't have the Restrictions of 50/50 just that no information is out about them haveing a means of bypasing them.
 
True Gremlin shouldn't have the restriction because they're already true Magic Gods and Othinus was incomplete. It's as simple as that, but they all work off 100% god paradox probability as it's a shared trait amongst them all. Gungnir just stablizes her and gives her MG status to complete her.

Information doesn't matter so long as the text clearly points and defines what a Magic God is. We know that All Magic Gods share largely the same powers and traits once reaching the status regardless of how they get there, which means they overcome the God Paradox, thus they overcome 100% probability.

Very simple stuff.
 
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