Hoopa Revision

FictionalBlade101 · Jun 30, 2016

From what i see here on the Wiki, Hoopa is only listed as "at least Multi Continent+" for being able to defeat Reshiram, Zekrom, Regigas, Groudon and Kyogre with ease. But something just crossed my mind recently for Hoopa. If we arent going to accept what happened in the movie, then is game Hoopa a legit Key on here for him? IIRC, in the ORAS games, Hoopa was capable of using its rings to trap all of the pokemon shown in the movie plus Ho-oh, the lake trio, The swords of Jutsice, The Dog Trio, and Creselia in unknown places throughout Hoenn so that the player could catch them after battling them. Should that be noted for something since the Games are the primary canon?

Nibbler3100 · Jul 1, 2016

Indeed it should

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Jul 1, 2016

Hmm...interesting. I had forgotten this, but the areas the bonus legendaries are sealed in were indeed created by Hoopa. I'm not sure. Perhaps it would be best to ask other members for some input, as well?

The_real_cal_howard · Jul 1, 2016

It's, possible. But it would probably be more hax than AP

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

The real cal howard said:
It's, possible. But it would probably be more hax than AP

Its possible but theres no real way to prove that. Hax is more likely for the anime yes because the legendaries were being controlled but in the games they were literally just contained within areas Hoopa either found or created himself. Dialga and Palkia were even contained within an area where time and space were warped.

Plus wouldnt summoning something kinda prove your stronger? U cant really summon something that has more raw power or energy then you yourself do

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Hmm...interesting. I had forgotten this, but the areas the bonus legendaries are sealed in were indeed created by Hoopa. I'm not sure. Perhaps it would be best to ask other members for some input, as well?

Yea that's perfectly fine Azzy

The_real_cal_howard · Jul 1, 2016

On the summoning to strength thing, Tell that to Doctor Strange. But this would mean that Hoopa is tier 2. I find it hard to believe Hoopa is tier 2 through AP. Hax though, possibly.

Also, it would mean a Lugia boost too through the movie.

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

The real cal howard said:
On the summoning to strength thing, Tell that to Doctor Strange. But this would mean that Hoopa is tier 2. I find it hard to believe Hoopa is tier 2 through AP. Hax though, possibly.
Also, it would mean a Lugia boost too through the movie.

I dont think so for Lugia because the one he was facing was Shadow Hoopa, who was a weakend out of control Hoopa. It wasnt like the one that beat Groudon, Kyogre, Reshiram, etc. it had no real control over its power, i think Barza even states this to Ash and the others. If it was in actual control Lugia wouldnt have lasted long. Im not sure, what do u think?

Nibbler3100 · Jul 1, 2016

Well we did have Hoopa calculated using wormhole theorem and he did end up becoming stronger than Dialga and Palkia

Antvasima · Jul 1, 2016

It may be best to ask Aizen about this.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Jul 1, 2016

Antvasima said:
It may be best to ask Aizen about this.

I would like Mighty's opinion, as well.

Antvasima · Jul 1, 2016

You can ask them to participate on their message walls.

Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot · Jul 1, 2016

I have done so.

Antvasima · Jul 1, 2016

Okay.

LordAizenSama · Jul 1, 2016

I dont think trapping them could equate to any statistics as it seems to just essentially be a form of bfr. You could put it down to a type of hax move I guess.

As For containing Dialga/Palkia it would seem odd that Hoopa would be capable of actually doing that. You could probably argue the Game just wants you to have the opportunity to catch them, so it's like a sort of Plot induced stupidity/Outlier kinda deal, I think.

TheMightyRegulator would probably have a better opinion of this then myself though so i'm interested in his thoughts.

TheMightyRegulator · Jul 1, 2016

You enter the tear in space-time and in the battle sequence a Legendary Pokemon will be sent to the dimension by a portal superseded by Hoopa's rings…and that's it.

There is no epic battle, no power struggle and we have been shown several times that Hoopa can teleport entities without even being physically present in the general vicinity.

As LordAizensama said, it's simply dimensional bfr and in no way were they depicted of being "trapped". None of the Legendary attempted to escape, only battling you the player and is more than likely just a mechanic to make the capture of every Pokemon feasible.

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

Could it be they never tried to escape because of game mechanics? Or that Hoopa's pure raw power was keepig them contained in the space within the rings?

We honestly dont even know just HOW the legendaries got in their in the first place. For all we know Hoopa could have actually battled them and trapped them in the rings or did it by hax. And if it was a simple BFR, then legendaries like the Creation/Lake Trio's wouldnt have gotten themselves trapped within a tear in space-time, considering the kind of beings they alrready are.

Antvasima · Jul 1, 2016

I agree with TMR.

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

Actually nvm, take a look at Hoopa's pokedex entries first before saying no raw power was involved:

This troublemaker sends anything and everything to faraway places using its loop, which can warp space
It gathers things it likes and pushes them through its loop to teleport them to a secret place.

It is said to be able to seize anything it desires with its six rings and six huge arms. With its power sealed, it is transformed into a much smaller form.

Hoopa is explicivity stated to actually push things through its rings when gathering them, using its large arms. This should imply some kind of force is being applied when Hoopa uses its rings to transport things, which would even include the legendaries it has gathered.

And heres more evidence of it using force when gathering things it wants:

Hyperspace Hole- Using a hyperspace hole, the user appears right next to the opponent and strikes.

Hyperspace Fury- Using its many arms, the user unleashes a barrage of attacks that ignore the effects of moves like Protect and Detect

Before this gets game mechanics involved, in simplier terms Hoopa is using its rings to open holes in space time to gather what it wishes and in a likely case, such as pokemon, it even battles them. Hyperspace Hole/Fury are just Hoopas Rings being used in mid battle so theres no reason why they cant be applied here to say Hoopa isnt just using BFR on the legendaries

Antvasima · Jul 1, 2016

It sounds too farfetched for my taste. I agree with TheMightyRegulator that this seems to be unquantifiable battlefield removal hax.

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

Antvasima said:
It sounds too farfetched for my taste. I agree with TheMightyRegulator that this seems to be unquantifiable battlefield removal hax.

How would it be unquantifiable?

LordAizenSama · Jul 1, 2016

Pushing something does not mean it does damage. it's just BFR .

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

LordAizenSama said:
Pushing something does not mean it does damage. it's just BFR .

I never said pushing means damaging i said pushing them implies some kind of force is involved. U cant forcfully push something, especially somethng as powerful as these legendaries, without the neccesary energy or strength to do it. As far as damaging is concerned, that happens when Hyperspace Hole/Fury happens, which is just Hoopa using its rings in the middle of battle

Antvasima · Jul 1, 2016

Well, pushing the teleportation portal itself is usually enough to force something through it within fiction. I have never considered Nightcrawler to be as physically powerful as the Hulk, just because the former could technically transport the latter elsewhere.

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

Antvasima said:
Well, pushing the teleportation portal itself is usually enough to force something through it within fiction. I have never considered Nightcrawler to be as physically powerful as the Hulk, just because the former could technically transport the latter elsewhere.

I dont mean the teleportation portal itself, as that would definitely be unquantifiable. Im talking about pushing the things themselves THROUGH the telelportation portal, which ca be quantified

Hoopa in the games is being more implied to be using sheer force to teleport the things it desires. It may be true that his rings can be used as BFR and can suck things up without Hoopa being even near them, but that only ever happens in the anime which is secondary canon. Hoopa in the games has never been shown to use its rings in the same way. All we know is that, somehow, those legendaries were trapped away inside its rings so its pure assumption to say its pure hax. In fact, given the dex entry and move descriptions about Hoopa's rings in battle, it iimplies more to Hoopa using force in mid battle so it shouldnt just be pure BFR hax. And if it was pure BFR, why couldnt the creation/lake trios just free themselves?

Antvasima · Jul 1, 2016

Well, to me it either seems like hax or a Plot Induced Stupidity outlier. Has it ever remotely displayed a universal scale of power?

LordAizenSama · Jul 1, 2016

Yeah this is pretty ridiculous. Disagree entirely with what you're saying. Mighty answered you and you're just bringing up the same points he addressed.

Antvasima · Jul 1, 2016

So, should we close this?

FictionalBlade101 · Jul 1, 2016

Antvasima said:
Well, to me it either seems like hax or a Plot Induced Stupidity outlier. Has it ever remotely displayed a universal scale of power?

Didnt Hoopa become stronger than Dialga and Palkia via wormhole theorem? Nibbler said something about that earlier.

And there isnt anything to prove its an outlier. Without game mechanics this is all Hoopa has done in the ORAS games and its been stated that its actions cause disturbances in the pokemonverse and that was likely caused by it capturing these various legends. I mean Hoopa DID capture Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Azelf, Mespirit and Uxie and trapped them within its rings. And those 6 were directly made by Arceus

LordAizenSama · Jul 1, 2016

Yep think it's time to close this.

Hoopa Revision

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